CableLabs To Test SDV, TiVO Adapter So that TiVO users don't get left in the dark... As we've noted, several cable operators are deploying switched digital video technology (SDV), which frees up bandwidth on cable systems by delivering fewer channels to the cable-box, keeping the rest waiting at the edge router. Third-party DVR competitors such as TiVO have expressed concern that the new two-way technology could potentially render one-way Cablecards useless. Under the watchful eye of regulators, the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA) announced last year that they'd be working with TiVO to develop an external adapter that would allow TiVO units to access SDV channels. Multichannel News reports that the first version of this device has been submitted to CableLabs for testing. The adapter itself is expected to be about the size of a small digital cable box, according to the report.
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  dathing
join:2002-01-09
Sykesville, MD
1 edit |  Sure... We'll get right on that.
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|  | | | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. So you exclaim how the cable cards are supposed to remove the need for a box, yet complain that it doesn't work in your tivo box. Oh the irony.
The new multistream cards are supposed to be 2 way. However, I don't know if any MSO has enabled that feature. | |
| | |  Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. said by antonio010:So you exclaim how the cable cards are supposed to remove the need for a box, yet complain that it doesn't work in your tivo box. Oh the irony. The new multistream cards are supposed to be 2 way. However, I don't know if any MSO has enabled that feature. ALL cable cards are 2 way.... But there is no Equipment that takes cable cards that is two way.... It is a Equipment limitation, not a cable card limitation.... | |
| | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. If by "equipment limitation," you mean "CableLabs limitation," you are correct. CableLabs refuses to allow two way boxes to run the software of the vendor or customer's choice. Were that not the case, TiVo's S3 could have been two way from day one. They even forbid UDCPs from having the hardware needed to do two way in the future from being in there, hence the need for an external box for the box.
At least it's USB..
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  | |
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| | | | Tivos only work as a one way device with the cablecards. Thats why even with this external dongle Tivo users with cable still wont get On Demand or PPV channels. Just the SDV HD ones that people seem to want the most. | |
| | | | Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. Correct... Hopefully OCAP (or whatever it is) will fix that | |
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|  banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| It took about three weeks to get the CableCARDs working in my TiVo HD as well (I'm also a Comcast customer) for no other reason than the fact that, in my area, Comcast does not know how to properly deal with CableCARDs. That, and the fact that their billing system imposes such restrictions on the authorization and use of the cards that any minor problem can result in the need for a tech to come out and replace the card entirely.
The process should be as simple as having the customer pick up cards, call a provisioning number at Comcast and read the technician the card ID and host ID values. Unfortunately you could call Comcast half a dozen times and never get anyone who understands CableCARDs.
You're right in that Comcast does not want to do any more than the minimum necessary to support CableCARD devices. There is really no reason for them to, after all. They make their money from DVR rentals, and from their On-Demand offerings which CableCARD devices cannot utilize. Because CableCARD customers are a very small fraction of the total customer footprint, they feel it's no skin off their nose if they treat that small fraction like crap. It doesn't excuse them, but I can understand it.
As such, sad to say, I can only recommend CableCARD devices like a TiVo to people who really, really hate the Comcast DVR (like me) and really, really have the determination and patience necessary to work with the cable company until everything is up and running...which could take anywhere from fifteen minutes to several weeks, if not months.
Comcast isn't yet employing SDV technology in my area, but I'm glad to see the SDV-enabling device is already in testing. Too bad it has to be so big, but that's probably because speed to market dictated that existing enclosure tooling be used.
Despite the rigmarole I went through to get it working, I am much, much happier with my TiVo HD than I was with my Comcast HD DVR.
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by banditws6:The process should be as simple as having the customer pick up cards, call a provisioning number at Comcast and read the technician the card ID and host ID values. Unfortunately you could call Comcast half a dozen times and never get anyone who understands CableCARDs. If people were honest, it COULD be that way.. however, rightfully so, any cable operator is going to want to know where the equipment is being activated.
I doubt you will ever pick up a phone to activate new equipment for some time to come.. I'm guessing that even customer owned equipment will require a truck roll. | |
| | | | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. said by fiberguy:I doubt you will ever pick up a phone to activate new equipment for some time to come. Welllllll....Comcast in Naples, Florida let me do just that in December. Went to their nearest office, picked up two digital cable boxes and took them back to the condo. Installed them both, called in and had the one which didn't automagically authorize authorized. I could have been in any of 2500 condo units in 20 buildings and they would not be the wiser.
There is nothing about this that requires a truck roll. They just don't wanna do it right.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. I was talking about cable cards. Pardon me for believing you were smart enough to follow the context of the topic. | |
| | | | | | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. Nice snipe. You just can't post without getting a flame in can you?
My comment is illustrative of why Comcast has no valid reason to demand a truck roll for these things. What was yours illustrative of?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. Pot, meet kettle. Review your history. (Maybe you should leave my posts alone in the future)
My comments were illustrative of the fact that CABLE CARDS won't be activated with out truck rolls anytime soon. I made a mistake and didn't SPECIFICALLY state "cable cards" (even though that was the context of the topic) but you couldn't wait to jump on my post (aka, Flame - see the very first line of your reply) to demean another user on this site, to which you've racked up plenty of that under your belt. | |
| | | | | | | | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Sure... We'll get right on that. Yawn. See ya. | |
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DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Render CableCards useless? Could someone explain why SDV would render CableCards useless? | |
| | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
1 edit | Re: Render CableCards useless? They are only one way and cannot talk to the headend to tell it what channel to send. The purpose of this adapter is to give it a return channel.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2 | What is SDV?
SDV stands for Switched Digital Video, a scheme where not all TV channels are broadcast out from the cable headend to the homes that it serves all of the time. This is attractive to cable companies, because they can offer more TV channels than their cable plant has the bandwidth to broadcast. For example, you cable company may have 10 different channels in your lineup, but only 5 physical channels to send them from the headend to the houses they service. This requires a cable box that can communicate back upstream to the headend and say “I would like to watch ESPN2HD now” and then headend would take that request, assign it to a frequency and then tell the cable box “ESPN2HD is available on xxx,xxx kHz”
Taken from:
»www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh···t=357703 | |
| | | | | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Render CableCards useless? It is only "useless" if you are beholden to cable and don't want the cable box. There are not that many people using CableCARDS (which attach directly to the TV) and instead connect to the cable company converter box via component or HDMI (or, if you don't fix the Comcast install, composite) inputs. Those are hardly "obsolete".
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | Fubar
join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2
1 edit | Dave,
CableLabs doesn't make devices.... Just certifys products... Kinda like UL does...
And all technology will get replaced.... It's just a matter of time...
Shame on people for not having a crystal ball... | |
| | | |  DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
 ·Vonage
·ViaTalk
| Re: Render CableCards useless? said by Fubar:Dave, CableLabs doesn't make devices.... Just certifys products... Kinda like UL does... And all technology will get replaced.... It's just a matter of time... Shame on people for not having a crystal ball... So if the cablecos cared, they would tell manufactures to stop selling CC1 sets. Since they will not be supported. Will CC2 (tru2way) sets arriving soon, or CC2+. Cable should support customers, not saying incredible silly things like technonlogy you purchased a year ago is obsolete, and its your fault. Then they wonder why FIOS is doing so well. | |
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|  djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER
| quote:
Could someone explain why SDV would render CableCards useless?
Normally all HD channels are broadcast together, simultaneously, on different frequencies. The "guide" has information on where each channel is actually located. So when you want ABC-HD, your tuner might tune, say channel 106, stream #1, and plays it back.
But with much bandwidth as HD channels require, cable operators are moving to SDV, which makes the system operate more like an "on demand" channel. The cable box says, "Customer wants to watch Food-HD" and the cable system begins broadcasting it on a certain frequency so the box can tune into it. This will allow them to offer a virtually limitless amount of more obscure channels.
CableCard TiVo is a one way system, it has no way to tell the cable company what the user is selecting. The USB adapter will remedy that. | |
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approval from:
tishoo 
| Re: Render CableCards useless? said by djrobx:Normally all HD channels are broadcast together, simultaneously, on different frequencies. The "guide" has information on where each channel is actually located. So when you want ABC-HD, your tuner might tune, say channel 106, stream #1, and plays it back. But with much bandwidth as HD channels require, cable operators are moving to SDV, Actually, you're wrong. One digital channel, even broadcasting at 1080p resolution, only takes up a third of the space of an entire analog channel. An analog channel is 6 Mhz wide, a digital channel is only 2 Mhz wide. So you're conclusion that they're trying to save bandwidth doesn't make sense. They're only trying to get you to get their "great dvr cablebox" so that they can leech more money out of you. Total money grab! | |
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 DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
4 edits | Bring VOD support too Bidirectional services may also be used for VOD support by 3rd parties like TiVo too. I guess that is what the OpenCable platform is all about.
It's a shame that TiVo couldn't just make a box that recorded HD from Component Video just like the S1 and S2 boxes recorded SD from S-Video and composite video. Then they could avoid all this crap all together.
Also both my Cox and TWC STBs have active firewire and I'm able to record HD via firewire to my HD D-VHS deck. I wonder if TiVo could have done the same. | |
| |  Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: Bring VOD support too said by Dogfather:Bidirectional services may also be used for VOD support by 3rd parties like TiVo too. I guess that is what the OpenCable platform is all about. Its the devices not the card that is only one-way. if the card wasnt a 2way device then the DCHxxxx boxes wouldnt be able to gain access to vod. | |
| | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Bring VOD support too said by Ebolla:said by Dogfather:Bidirectional services may also be used for VOD support by 3rd parties like TiVo too. I guess that is what the OpenCable platform is all about. Its the devices not the card that is only one-way. if the card wasnt a 2way device then the DCHxxxx boxes wouldnt be able to gain access to vod. That's got nothing to do with it. On most, if not all, systems, the VOD content isn't even encrypted, thus no involvement from the CC is needed.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| Reviews:
·Comcast
| unless of course you want that damn dual tuner thingy to work.
Hardware limitations make it that recording from an external jack actually takes up more bandwidth then taking it from an internal tuner.
It has something to do with the onboard mpeg decoders and encoders. I can't remember which forum had it I think it was the tivo hacks forum. But they came to that conclusion.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | Price? I just have to ask, how much are the cable company's going to gouge there customers for this device once its available, i'm guessing you wont be able to just go out and buy one so probably $15-$30 a month? | |
| | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: Price? From what I read, customers would just buy it outright from TiVo. It's just a USB adapter...the actual controller ware would be in a TiVo software update. | |
| | | | | Re: Price? Based on this statement
"The NCTA and CableLabs have said the device will work with any one-way cable-ready product with a USB connector and has been updated with the necessary firmware."
If it will work with any cable-ready product with a USB connector and the right firmware, I would say the cable company's will want this devices restricted in the same way there settop boxes are restricted so that you have to rent it from them to use with there system just like the cable cards. | |
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 JohnnyPremium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
kudos:1 | Comcast Techs Comcast is clueless about CableCARDs. It's hysterical. There is a SINGLE-PAGE instructions on how to install them, but the @()@*#& installers think they know everything and each one says 1) He has never done this before and 2) CableCARDs are a pain in the ass.
So they charge in, inserting the cards in the wrong order, not knowing how to get the card info, pulling the card out and calling it "bad", having an M-card and not realizing that if they used that one they wouldn't need another card, not knowing that the M-card goes in the rightmost slot, etc.
Then they call the headquarters and nobody there knows anything either.
Then there is the issue of, if you have 2 S-cards, their billing system charges you for an "additional outlet", because it doesn't know anything about a single device that takes 2 cards. I had to go to the VP to get this credited back. If you call tech support and tell them to remove the "additional outlet" charge, it disables your second CableCARD.
It's all worth it though, not to have to be driven insane by that piece of crap Motorola DVR that Comcast wants to rent to you. | |
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