dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
Cablevision Loses Broadband, Video and Voice Customers
by Karl Bode 12:37PM Friday Nov 08 2013
Cablevision's struggles continue with the company's latest quarterly earnings, which show the NY-area cable operator lost 37,000 basic video customers, 13,000 broadband and 18,000 phone customers during the third quarter. The company has been struggling to see much growth as it continues to compete with Verizon FiOS in most of its markets, and the company also spent much of this year recovering from Sandy damage.

Click for full size
On the company's earnings call, Cablevision CEO James Dolan hinted at a reduction in the number of promotions. "The customer that’s been bouncing from one company to another on promotional discounts has hit a dead-end with us," insists Dolan.

Instead, Dolan insists, it's better product that he believes will help the company battle Verizon. "Having a robust, solid network with great infrastructure behind it that’s ready to handle those products and services, will give you an edge," Dolan said.

The problem for Dolan and Cablevision is that while their Optimum Online product lineup was considered industry cutting edge quite a few years back, that reputation has diminished in recent years. The company streamlined its product lineup back in June, though they've yet to match some of the higher-end speeds provided by Verizon FiOS.

Cablevision's struggles of late have only fueled speculation that the company continues to weigh a sale -- most likely to Time Warner Cable.

view:
topics flat nest 

mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

Wha,

OOOH they are going to get stricter on the people who bounce from them and FIOS. Here's a clue we will drop both of you. Now what were you sayin?
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Re: Wha,

And go where?

mech1164
I'll Be Back

join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

Re: Wha,

Anywhere away from them. No cable no phone just broadband. If worse came to worse. Tmo unlimited for what I do will be fine. They need us we don't need them.

Jay1

@verizon.net

1 recommendation

Re: Wha,

Who will you get your broadband from?

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Wha,

He's not understanding the question.
ipwn3r456

join:2013-07-31
Los Angeles, CA

1 recommendation

Yeah are you just going to use your phone all day for internet? T-Mobile unlimited simple plan does not let you tether over 500MBs... unless you buy more data.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

Who Are They Switching To?

Who are Cablevision customers switching to? Yes we have FiOS but its deployment is limited compared to Cablevision's coverage and a majority of people here on Long Island cannot get it. The only three choices one would have on Long Island is Optimum Online from Cablevision, Verizon FiOS or Verizon DSL.

Of course, Cablevision also has territory outside of Long Island in Rockland County as well as Connecticut. However, there is no Verizon FiOS presence there. And, DSL is not a serious competitor to Optimum Online.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
shmerl

join:2013-10-21

Re: Who Are They Switching To?

FiOS in NYC is still dragging feet as well (many areas don't have it). May be De Blasio will put pressure on Verizon since he is the mayor now and he was interested in this subject before.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by n2jtx:

Of course, Cablevision also has territory outside of Long Island in Rockland County as well as Connecticut. However, there is no Verizon FiOS presence there. And, DSL is not a serious competitor to Optimum Online.

I am in Rockland County (Suffern NY in fact) and I am wired for FIOS (up to the Interface Box) so I can state that it is available in (at least some parts of) Rockland County. I am still a CV customer since to finish the hookup of FIOS (if I wanted it) would involve lots of cabling due to the way they placed the box. I have no plans to switch (I like my CV support) although I might have done so for my Phone and possibly gotten a backup Internet connection if they had not screwed up the box placement. It is hidden in a bedroom closet away from my phone lines and power not in my basement near where the phone wires enter my condo unit next to the patch panel for all the units in my building as well as the entry point for my CV coax.

nj fios tech

@myvzw.com

Re: Who Are They Switching To?

We do fios installs like your place all the time. We don't have to be near the phone and cable conections in the basement. And if there is electrical outlet in the room where the box is or a room near by we should be able to use it.

Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
It is available to almost all ow Westchester County also and quite a bit of Rockland and Dutchess.

momcat1
No Relation To The Bobcat

join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY

Re: Who Are They Switching To?

Only parts of Dutchess. Where we are the only other choice is (UGH) Frontier DSL. Not really a viable choice.

Mistergold

@verizon.net
There is fios in rockland county ny and Greenwich ct for your information

Gardenst

@107.14.223.x
Fios has stolen lot of customer in NEw Jersey also

IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

1 recommendation

sellout...

if CV sells out to TW, im dropping them and moving over to slower DSL copper.
boredsysadm

join:2012-01-11

1 recommendation

Re: sellout...

Riiiiiiightt... I on grandfathed $15 extra CV's Boost plan and get a 100mbis... The only change I would do if pressed to the wall with 0 promos is to cancel family cable, phone (which is unused , but "free" now a part of 3play promo) and get a cheaper $5 extra 50mbis plan
TW is really worse than CV, but not many other options around
JoeSchmoe007
Premium
join:2003-01-19
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Callcentric
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

What's wrong with customers following promotions?

I've had FIOS (internet+phone) for 2 years and then switched to OOL (internet only) for a promotion.

I really don't see much of a difference as far as service goes. 15Mbps is 15Mbps whatever the carrier media is. If anything, FIOS forum has some complaints about YouTube and Neftlix issues related (if I am not mistaken) to FIOS peering agreement. There seem to be no such complaints on OOL forum. Plus as far as I know Netflix has content caching servers within OOL network which is a good thing.

If 2 companies offer virtually identical product the only way they can compete is on a price, hence promotions and bouncing customers. I am glad we have competing providers in my area.

Aozora

join:2008-11-28
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: What's wrong with customers following promotions?

said by JoeSchmoe007:

I've had FIOS (internet+phone) for 2 years and then switched to OOL (internet only) for a promotion.

I really don't see much of a difference as far as service goes. 15Mbps is 15Mbps whatever the carrier media is. If anything, FIOS forum has some complaints about YouTube and Neftlix issues related (if I am not mistaken) to FIOS peering agreement. There seem to be no such complaints on OOL forum. Plus as far as I know Netflix has content caching servers within OOL network which is a good thing.

If 2 companies offers virtually identical product the only way they can compete is on a price, hence promotions and bouncing customers. I am glad we have competing providers in my area.

Competition is bad....mmmmkay?
shmerl

join:2013-10-21
Does OOL throttle any traffic or messes with it in any other way?
JoeSchmoe007
Premium
join:2003-01-19
Brooklyn, NY

Re: What's wrong with customers following promotions?

It used to throttle 10 years ago (or more) but not anymore.

Booost

@optonline.net
said by JoeSchmoe007:

What's wrong with customers following promotions?

Maybe because they lose money on those customers?

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Because people dont stick around long. These companies dont make a lot on promotions. And when customers are faced with two high priced choices, the one with the better quality wins, and CV just cant compete with FiOS.
JoeSchmoe007
Premium
join:2003-01-19
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Callcentric
·Verizon FiOS

Re: What's wrong with customers following promotions?

said by ITALIAN926:

Because people dont stick around long. These companies dont make a lot on promotions. And when customers are faced with two high priced choices, the one with the better quality wins, and CV just cant compete with FiOS.

Well, that's the whole point of my post - how is FIOS better than CV? It isn't. TV channels are the same (they don't produce their own), internet tier speeds are the same or similar and phone service is just phone service.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: What's wrong with customers following promotions?

Youre kidding right? PQ on FiOS is better than CV, Internet speeds are the same? Since when? What are you the only customer left on your node?

And since you think FiOS ISNT better, please explain the posted losses.
JoeSchmoe007
Premium
join:2003-01-19
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Callcentric
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

Re: What's wrong with customers following promotions?

FIOS speeds at my location: 15/5, 50/25, 75/35, 150/65

CV speeds: 15/5, 50/25, 100/35. I live in apartment building (one of many in the neighborhood, so I imagine I am not the only one on my node) and had all 3 tiers - never a problem. In past year I don't remember ever getting anything less than advertised speed on speed tests.

Yes, FIOS is better on the top end but I don't believe CV loses many customers because they can't match 150/65. I imagine at least 95% of FIOS and CV customers are on 15/5 or 50/25 tiers.

As far as picture quality - I didn't have TV service from either recently and can't comment. Can you link to independent review or factual numbers on compression ratio? If CV was so much worse everyone would have switched to FIOS (if it is available) and it is clearly not happening.

As far as quarterly losses - who can really tell? For the size of CV customer base it doesn't seem to be significant. Plus both companies are really after the same customer base in a significant part so I imagine whoever has more aggressive promo at the time wins.
Network Guy
Premium
join:2000-08-25
New York
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Future Nine Corp..
·T-Mobile US
·Optimum Online

What's Dolan gonna do?

Tell a "new" customer sign-up to go scram because they believe this customer has been bouncing back and forth with a competitor to keep promotional pricing?

Please.... Cry me a river.... If they don't want my promotional dollars, I can always stay put where they do want them.

Jay1

@verizon.net

Re: What's Dolan gonna do?

You don't have much in the way of alternatives.
Network Guy
Premium
join:2000-08-25
New York
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Future Nine Corp..
·T-Mobile US
·Optimum Online

Re: What's Dolan gonna do?

Verizon costs just a little more than cable for TV and Internet combo, based on promotional pricing plus applicable taxes and fees for comparable service tiers.

If CV wants to turn around and act like they can demand regular rates, they can. And they will find themselves with less customers while Verizon is able and willing to take them at promotional pricing.

I don't personally feel bad whatsoever for their predicament with promotional customers who drop them to later come back again. My paycheck has been shrinking and I still have to figure out how to make rent. CV can figure it out too.

aztr0

join:2007-10-28
Brooklyn, NY

If..

Been a Cablevision customer for a while, if they are sold to TwC... I might have to consider FiOS even though I hate Verizon. Argh.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

wow,

I thought cablevision was going to do MUCH better with retention (of at least BROADBAND subscribers) when they offered 100 megabit speeds for ultra 50 customers in promotion. How could they screw this one up? Double people's broadband $$ rates $$ and not offer them a deal to keep the 100 megabit tier?? Is it not surprising that no broadband stand-alone customers would stay for the 100mbit tier priced at $110 - $129!! At $55 (50/25), you can get a competitive deal from FIOS for 1 year. So, the incentive SHOULD HAVE BEEN to offer a deal for the higher speed ($60-$65), and when they didn't.. bye said the customer.

Video is taking a beating on ALL carriers (no surprise there) as consumers (and their CHILDREN) discover ONLINE streaming video for FREE/DIRT CHEAP as alternatives. Who really wants to watch commercials anymore unless their in the mood?

The days of subscribing to ONE carrier for 5, 10, 15 years staying loyal (and getting NOTHING in return) are LOOOOONG gone.. you better be quicker with the deals or you will lose customers-- it's just that simple.

BTW, a better number is the net gain and loss of ALL video subscribers overall, not parsed numbers such as basic video.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: wow,

said by tmc8080:

I thought cablevision was going to do MUCH better with retention (of at least BROADBAND subscribers) when they offered 100 megabit speeds for ultra 50 customers in promotion. How could they screw this one up? Double people's broadband $$ rates $$ and not offer them a deal to keep the 100 megabit tier?? Is it not surprising that no broadband stand-alone customers would stay for the 100mbit tier priced at $110 - $129!! At $55 (50/25), you can get a competitive deal from FIOS for 1 year. So, the incentive SHOULD HAVE BEEN to offer a deal for the higher speed ($60-$65), and when they didn't.. bye said the customer.

I had Cablevision's Boost service at 30 mbps. They upgraded me to 100 mbps service and the price stayed the same. I imagine there will be a rate hike at some point, but for the moment, I'm paying the same now as I was for the 30 mbps. Also, I get slightly more than the advertised speed according to SpeedTest.net.

Since I'm in CT, FIOS isn't available to me. The only other viable choice is AT&T's U-Verse.

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Youve been wrong on a LOT of counts there. Cablevision is getting hammered, and the speed increases you constantly yearn for dont mean jack.

Video is taking a beating with ALL CARRIERS? So, I guess Verizon and AT&T didnt really add like 300,000 video subs last quarter, right?

quote:
......ONLINE streaming video for FREE/DIRT CHEAP as alternatives. Who really wants to watch commercials anymore unless their in the mood?
How bout the 100,000,000 video subscribers in this country?

••••
YDC

join:2007-11-13
Hewlett, NY

Cablevision has always been an odd player

I have lived on Long Island all of my life. I can tell you that cable was once a very basic service. There was no broadband when I got it. It worked very well. Then came the phone company wanting to get into cable, the cable company wanting to get into phone, the cable and phone companies wanting to get into the ISP business. They wanted it all. Well, now that they have it all, did it help? No it didn't. It just made it harder to co-exist with each other. That hind-sight thing comes to mind now //

Booost

@optonline.net

Promotions

quote:
"The customer that’s been bouncing from one company to another on promotional discounts has hit a dead-end with us," insists Dolan.
Churn, baby, churn.
Zetu

join:2013-07-18
Brooklyn, NY

It's all about quality

 
 
 
I'm a CV customer but this internet quality is really bugging me. Sure, the internet speeds are fine but it's the quality that counts in my opinion.

On the other hand, my neighbor with FiOS has virtually no ping variance... unbelievable! I might switch over if I keep getting this shitty quality.

Note: I'm the only one using the internet and no background programs are downloading/uploading.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Re: It's all about quality

FiOS doesn't have much ping variance on the last mile, but that doesn't mean things are as good further upstream. Verizon does have a tendency to bully their peers, which can result in undesirable consequences.
ipwn3r456

join:2013-07-31
Los Angeles, CA

Cablevision wants to sold off to TWC, and Charter wants to buy TWC? wut.

So looking at this »Charter Intent on Buying Time Warner Cable

And this news, so are you telling me 3 cable providers is going to be ONE now?

Attack Gypsy

join:2007-05-10
Milford, CT

Sale

If Cv is sold to TW, this town will wind up on Comcast. They don't like TW in Southwest Connecticut. And my town is right next to a Comcast town, so it wouldn't be too difficult.
snic

join:2009-10-14
Harrison, NY

I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised Optimum is losing customers. There are ever-growing alternatives to almost everything they provide.

I do use their broadband service because it works almost flawlessly and it's cheaper than FIOS. $55/month.

I don't watch TV, except for one or two shows per week, plus special events (elections, hurricanes, etc). Antennas don't work at my location. So I have to have cable. But do I? No, there's Aereo. $8 month. And it works great.

I need to have landline phone service, so it makes sense to just get it from Optimum. But does it really? No, I signed up for a VOIP service for about $7/month. And it works great.

So now my combined bill is $55 + $8 + $7 = $70/month. That's cheaper than any "triple play" from any company (much less the post-offer rates) and serves my needs perfectly.

Optimum and Verizon keep sending me letters (and Optimum keeps trying to contact me with telemarketers, perhaps not realizing that my fabulous VOIP service lets me block calls from an unlimited number of phone numbers) begging me to come back with offers typically far greater than $70. I do hope they keep sending them as I've had some use for these letters as kindling in my fireplace.