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Cablevision Network DVR: 160GB, $10/Month
After court win, Cablevision wants to move quickly...
by Karl Bode 10:26AM Friday Sep 19 2008
With Cablevision's recent court win against the entertainment industry, the Associated Press has a little more on Cablevision's plan to replace the home set-top DVR with ISP-side DVR storage. Dubbed the "network DVR," (or RS-DVR) Cablevision says their implementation of the service will provide customers with 160GB of network-side storage to start, and, given the functionality will be the same as their existing DVR, says the price will likely remain around $9.95 a month. Will customers pay? Maybe, assuming the controls are as responsive as their existing DVRs, and the system doesn't suffer from annoying latency.

The shift is obviously a welcome one for cable operators from a financial perspective, with no need for a home visit for installs or replacement. Cable industry cheerleader and Sanford Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett (you'll recall him as the guy who's terrified of necessary network upgrades) claims the shift could boost DVR usage to around 60%. Of couse, all of this HD content flying about does raise the question of network congestion and the need for the same additional capacity Moffett has previously claimed isn't necessary. HD network choke is something that TiVO says has kept them from losing too much sleep just yet:
quote:
TiVo president and CEO Tom Rogers articulated a belief that the cable industry has "total inadequate capacity at this point for broad scale deployment of a network DVR solution," particularly when it comes to the recording and storing of individual HD streams during prime time. That, he said, "is beyond the realm of most cable operators' capacity."
And of course, this case against the entertainment industry could still head to the Supreme Court, pulling the plug on the project a second time. Broadcasters originally filed suit because they feared a loss of control over their content (and the loss of ad revenue), and it's unlikely they're going to simply give up the fight.

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Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

entertainment will appeal

im sure they wont sit quietly, they hate any form of lack of control over how we view or hear media. and hate even more when users have full control.
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Jmartz

join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ

Re: entertainment will appeal

This is going to suck just like their SDV. When people go to watch their programs they will be told, "this show is not currently available". Just like customers who paid a lot of money for the Extra Innings package had to suffer through this season. I just don't understand how Cablevision can continue to keep trying to offer individualized streams to customers when they can barely keep the garbage they already offer working.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

at the same price is better to have it at home and be able to add a bigger disk to it as well.

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

said by Joe12345678:

at the same price is better to have it at home and be able to add a bigger disk to it as well.
Except you don't have to worry about it breaking, and you can access the recorded shows on any TV in the home.

160GB, IMO is plenty.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

My media center fills with over 200GB pretty easily, and that is with only 5 or 6 shows, many is SD.
dan991199

join:2007-10-01
St Catharines, ON

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

my popcorn hour has a 1tb drive in it for a reason

Frank
Premium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere
said by Rob:

said by Joe12345678:

at the same price is better to have it at home and be able to add a bigger disk to it as well.
Except you don't have to worry about it breaking, and you can access the recorded shows on any TV in the home.

160GB, IMO is plenty.
not for hd it's not...

when I had cablevision I attached a 500gb drive to my dvr in addition to the 120 or 160gb hd that came with it. Right now I'm on fios and i'm actually contemplating buying a tivo because I keep having to delete stuff everyday due to lack of space and those bastages at verizon wont activate the sata port to enable additional hd space to be used.
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wispalord

join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO
this will kick ass if you can watch a show at another house, like at a friends via password or something... so i can dvr a movie and watch it later at my gf house for example.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Joe12345678:

at the same price is better to have it at home and be able to add a bigger disk to it as well.
If offered at same price, I can't see any incentive for customers to switch from their local DVR to a remote DVR service that is inherently less responsive to remote control actions. And if a node gets overloaded, you may not even be able to watch your recorded show when you want to.
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HarleyYac
Lee
Premium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ
kudos:2

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

Yes, I t would be interesting to see if any "latency" issues or the like pop up. Still interesting none the less.
Lee

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

said by HarleyYac:

Yes, I t would be interesting to see if any "latency" issues or the like pop up. Still interesting none the less.
Lee
The latency should be very similar if not identical to that you see with VOD services. It takes a second or two for a fast forward or reverse to start after pressing the remote button. Same thing with a pause and restart. Also there is no 30 sec skip available like with the local DVR to quickly go thru commercials.

In fact that brings up a possible issue - will they let you FF thru commercials or not?
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n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
said by Joe12345678:

at the same price is better to have it at home and be able to add a bigger disk to it as well.
Only if you are using your own box such as a Tivo. Otherwise, CV owns the box and you cannot hack it to add more disk space.
xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
kudos:1

Re: at the same price is better to have it at home and add your

you can add more space with an external via the esata port.

fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY

I'd bite IF:

1) Needs to be wayyyy more responsive than the VOD. Don't know if it's possible, but that would be an instant deal breaker.

2) Let me schedule my recordings online. I'd love to be able to pull up my phone and use a browser to schedule a recording (SlingPlayer for WinMo too expensive)

3) I'll keep my existing DVR and pay for networked IF you let me view said recordings on the interwebs. Even if it's just in CV's network (as a "subscriber" and on their subnets), i'd bite for it.

4) Option to purchase more storage. I've come to terms that the HD's die (frequently) in the SA machines, so I've given up hope of long term storage on those DVR's.

enigma69

@solidspace.com

I don't like the idea

As a cablevision customer, I have to say I'm not thrilled by this move, Cablevision currently has ~60 HD channels and I keep hoping for more as I live in an apartment I can't get satelite and fios is nowhere near so they are my only option. I can't help but think that all this bandwidth to replicate the dvr cheaper is going to slow down deployment of quality HD channels. I hope they don't pull a comcast and start compressing the hell out of my HD. Also as far as the size goes that's a downgrade for me I have a SA 8300HD with a external 500gb sata drive connected so I have 660gb of dvr space. I'll be holding on my my 8300HD until it dies if they start phasing them out.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
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La La Land
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Reviews:
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Re: I don't like the idea

said by enigma69 :

I live in an apartment I can't get satellite
Yes you can, IF...
You have an unobstructed view of the southern sky..
AND
You have a balcony or some other NON-COMMUNITY space...

Legally the apartment can NOT stop you from setting up Satellite...
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enigma69

@solidspace.com

Re: I don't like the idea

I have a view of the southern sky but no non-community space to place the dish, I've looked into it

53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone

join:2002-10-02
PwnZone
sure they can. here they have that in the lease agreement.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
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La La Land
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Reviews:
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Re: I don't like the idea

said by 53059959:

sure they can. here they have that in the lease agreement.
If you have a balcony, that you have sole access to, then regardless of what the lease agreement may say, they can NOT stop you...

Go to the satellite forum and pose that question, they will show you the applicable laws that apply..
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In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!

limegrass69
Here's my Posting tag

join:2008-05-28

Who/When?

OK...Who will jump in first? I'm sure it will be on LI first. It will be good to get some feedback on this from a real user. As everyone states, I'm concerned about the latency.

I'd like to see them pull this off and be able to enjoy my DVR content on any set in my house.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Re: Who/When?

said by limegrass69:

I'm concerned about the latency.
As you should...
Face it, CV CAN'T deliver internet speeds at any kind of consistent level.
When enough people subscribe to this, it will grind to a halt and become nonfunctional during most "peak" times...
--
RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

I do NOT want this

I can tell you right now, I really hope they make these devices optional rather that replacing all the physical units. My main concern is that my wife and I tend to watch a good deal of movies on demand (both PPV and "free" HBO/Cinemax/Showtime), as we dont go to the theaters. I would say that realistically speaking, we experience "this feature can not be accessed at this time, please try again later", roughly one out of every 8 or 9 times we want to watch on-demand content. We usually watch movies fairly late in the night (after 10PM on weekends), so there isnt much on TV if the movies dont start. Luckily for us, we have our TWC DVR full of shows sitting right in front of us. While we wait for TWC to fix whatever issues are preventing the movies from loading, we can at least watch recorded content from the DVR. If our DVR was on the network side however, I suspect that any issues would prevent ALL content from streaming, be it on demand or previously recorded. Given how often we experience issues with on demand content right now, there is no way I would want to risk having nothing to watch (exept for late night infomercials) just for the "convenience" of a networked DVR. The other thing (as mentioned by many people) is the latency would totally piss me off. If I had to wait 3 seconds for the program to respond to my FF/RW/Pause requests I think I would end up smashing the remote against the wall in about 5 minutes.
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Lex Luthor
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Hicksville, NY
kudos:3

HD vs SD

The first question I have is about HD vs SD.

Do you record one copy and if you watch it on an HD set, you get it in HD and if you watch it on an SD set, you get it in SD?

From what I've heard, that's the problem with the Fios multi room DVR. You have to record it twice if you might watch it on HD and SD.

While it'll be nice to be able to watch on any TV, I think the small offering on storage space is going to be a deal killer for me. I have an add-on drive now, I couldn't go back to 160GB of storage space.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

Applicable Scenario

I have Comcast, but I have been following this network DVR topic very closely as it probably will migrate to other providers at some point.

Last night in the wee hours of the morning the cable went out completely, most likely for routine maintenance of some sort. I, while being an insomniac of sorts, was lucky enough to be able to watch a few of my saved programs on my DVR for the duration of the outage.

Although a relatively rare event, for those of us that do keep strange hours that are often used to tinker with the equipment/firmware/software, I wonder if it would still be possible to watch saved shows?


DownTheShore
RIP tmpchaos
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join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:14
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

If it takes at least 30 seconds...

...for just the regular channel guide to pop up, and 60-120 seconds for the VOD channel to load, how on earth will network DVR be faster for the consumer, given the overloading on the nodes already?
--
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NYR 56
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY

Re: If it takes at least 30 seconds...

said by DownTheShore:

...for just the regular channel guide to pop up, and 60-120 seconds for the VOD channel to load, how on earth will network DVR be faster for the consumer, given the overloading on the nodes already?
Which planet are you from? That is one of the most absurd comment of this thread (and there are many). I'm not sure why everyone loves to bash CV but I switched to fios for a month and am switching back. The reality is that BOTH companies are offering superior service than the rest of the nation.

Assault

join:2001-12-14
Garland, TX

160GB for $10 not bad Verizon gives you 160GB for $15.99

Thanks Verizon!
xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
kudos:1

Re: 160GB for $10 not bad Verizon gives you 160GB for $15.99

its $10 plus around $7 for the box.

Fanfoot

@spcsdns.net

Cablevision nDVR

A few clarifications:

1) The cable channels (whether for live TV or VOD or nPVR watching) don't compete with IP traffic. One or more channels (6MHz frequencies, about 38Mbps worth of digital bandwidth using QAM 256) are allocated PERMANENTLY for internet. The rest (lots and lots of those channels) are for live or VOD or nPVR programming.

2) One 6MHz cable channel can carry 2 or 3 HD channels or 10 or so SD channels using MPEG-2 video encoding, assuming they're being transmitted digitally. If they're in analog (SD only) then each SD channel consumes a whole 6MHz band by itself.

3) An nDVR could record ALL of the channels simultaneously without using ANY network bandwith at all. To PLAY an nDVR recording, it has to allocate a channel to that particular user, which is where you might run into starvation. So your nDVR would NEVER have network issues recording anything. But it might have issues playing back stuff.

4) An HD program will consume about 6GB per hour max, and an SD program will consume about 1.7GB per hour max. So a 160GB allowance will store 27+ hours of HD or 94+ hours of SD.

5) It isn't a given that CV will stop you from fast-forwarding thru commercials. Presumably at first they won't, since they'd rather you used this service than asked for a physical DVR. But they could...
dubenezic

join:2004-05-06
Jersey City, NJ

Re: Cablevision nDVR

What if you want to keep the box?

Will they "shut off" the DVR portion?