Frontier To Inherit Some Very Shoddy Verizon CopperStates like West Viriginia will prove to be a huge test... 11:29AM Friday Sep 04 2009 by Karl Bodetags: dsl · competition · business · bandwidth · Verizon Online DSL · FrontierNet Internet AccessBack in May, Verizon announced that they'd be selling a laundry list of rural DSL markets in a deal worth around $8.5 billion. The deal, if approved, would infuse Frontier (which currently has 2.3 million customers) with 4.8 million new residential and small-business phone lines across 14 states, 1 million broadband connections, and 11,000 former Verizon employees. Tripling the size of the company has a lot of people worried, given the recent fates of other offloaded rural Verizon markets (see Hawaii Telcom and Fairpoint). Frontier continues to insist they're ready to shoulder the load, and as such, is busy making promises of a very bright future to anyone who'll listen. In an editorial in the Oregonian, Frontier VP Ann Burr tries to ease worried minds, telling paper readers that aside from their down home, old-fashioned approach to customer service, "everything else about us is 21st Century!" Well, aside from those hints at a 5GB cap on all your tiers, right? She continues: Our robust networks provide phone, video, wireless data and high-speed Internet bundled products to our customers. The communities we serve are primarily small and medium-sized towns and cities that closely resemble the Verizon properties Frontier is acquiring. In fact, we believe that it is our responsibility to help people live where they want while enjoying sophisticated communications offered by large cities. While that sounds great, many Frontier users have complained they can barely get 3 Mbps out of the company. Meanwhile, as the Charleston Daily Mail notes, Frontier's taking on some truly troubled broadband states like West Virginia, one of the least broadband saturated states in the country. In West Virginia, consumers and employees alike have complained about neglected Verizon copper infrastructure, as Verizon focused resources on FiOS and wireless.
Related:- Frontier Confirms Cap Plans
- Frontier Still Hinting At Caps, New Tiers
- Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
- Verizon CEO Admits Landlines Are Dead
- AT&T Offers $99 'Text, Talk & Surf' Plan
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
- FCC To Investigate Special Access Pricing
- Frontier Fires Up Verizon Acquisition PR Campaign
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jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
| Wonder if there will be any difference Verizon does some strange things in their rural markets. My employer has a location in Marion, NC (one of the markets being sold).
For a long time after the CO became DSL capable, they did not offer it to customers. They finally started in 2005 I think, and we tried to subscribe to use it as a backup if out T-1 was out.
After about two weeks we found out that in that office the did not offer a static IP address to business customers, but it took the whole two weeks after our installation kit arrived for someone to find out that much, they never could find out why it was not offered, just that it was not... even though Customer Service sold it to us.
Wonder if that will change under the new ownership?
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Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV | Re: Wonder if there will be any difference I personally know Byron and he is a sharp guy. But I still think the PSC is way over the tips of their skis on this one. There is no way they have the knowledge and brain power to properly assess this deal. | |
| | | dsless
join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Wonder if there will be any difference You know what is going to happen when Verizon pulls out. Also enjoy their 5G caps  | |
| | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: This is the other side of Fios expansion quote:
Verizon is funding Fios expansion in the dense markets by selling off their assets in areas where running fiber would never be profitable.
BS. It is not that can not be profitable, it is just the RoI would not be as qucikly recognized in rural markets. Some of the FIOS areas they are selling off actually have the highest take rates on Triple Play pkgs.
quote:
The rural Verizon areas are seeing the results of true competition. The telcos are leaving the regulated past behind where the companies could force a majority of their users to subsidize rural customers. All a result of the 1996 telco act that was designed to foster competition. Well, competition has winners and losers. And rural customers are losers.
More BS. It has nothing to do with competition as many of the rural areas have no competition from CLECs or Cable Cos. It is due to the shortsighted shareholders and executives. Verizon is just focused on "easy pickings" as their Marketing Team has no clue how to compete effectively. Furthermore, Verizon will still be under State and Federal Regulation, and those regulations will most likely be increasing on the wireless side for all the wireless competitors. Lastly, Verizon thinks they will be able to avoid Regulation as they switch to IP based phone services--the only outcome will be for the regulators to apply the landline rules to all VOIP competitors so they can regain their tax base. | |
| | | jophan
Premium
join:2009-07-12
Jenkintown, PA
2 edits | Re: This is the other side of Fios expansion quote:
many of the rural areas have no competition from CLECs or Cable Cos
CLECs and Cable are less significant than cellular. | |
| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
 ·Comcast
·Qwest.net
 ·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Never say never. Fiber IS profitable, just like copper telephone lines WERE profitable back in the day. It just so happens that rural areas have a longer ROI. Unfortunately for customers, Verizon doesn't know how to work with a longer ROI.
There are several telephone cooperatives who are bringing fiber to rural and semi-rural areas. The service provided over said fiber is more comparable to cable or DSL, but the ability to expand in the face of competition...if it ever comes...is there. Texas' third-largest telephone cooperative, which now owns a full ten-gigabit fiber backbone through their territory, now has 3 Mbps down 768k up DSL available to nearly all of their customers, with an average loop length of 7,000 feet. Which means that they could crank the DSL up to 12 Mbps down and 896k up without a problem. The upgrade was expensive, but HCTC has a captive audience in most of their territory; 3M DSL for $70 is better than wireless in the area, cellular or satellite.
I'm not saying that the above is 50/20 FiOS for $100 per month. I'm also not saying that Frontier won't botch the transition. I am saying that, if Frontier plays their cards right, rural towns might get upgraded to fiber when their copper wears out. That's a good thing. | |
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..
| Re: This is the other side of Fios expansion said by iansltx  :I'm also not saying that Frontier won't botch the transition. I am saying that, if Frontier plays their cards right, rural towns might get upgraded to fiber when their copper wears out. That's a good thing. Judging by your Profile, I see you have never had Frontier as a provider. I will forgive your ignorance concerning Frontier playing their cards right!
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
| | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: This is the other side of Fios expansion I'm getting a Computer Science degree. Im in the Math and Computer Science department. On the math side, EVERYTHING is in theory. | |
| | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Wow. You just twisted reality 180 degrees, then cut it up with scissors.
Your mind truly works in mysterious ways. | |
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birdman45
@rr.com | I don't know if I agree with your first statement completely. Regardless, your comment and the whole history of the ILEC here and the Frontier trademark are very ironic for residents in Rochester, NY. | |
| billburnett
Premium
join:2005-12-06
Oak Harbor, WA
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast
| Can't do worse than Verizon did in WA State Well, it remains to be seen, but I can't imagine the frontier folks will do worse than Verizon did with its markets in WA State.
Where I am, in Oak Harbor, on the northern end of Whidbey Island, this formerly had been GTE country before Verizon took over. After the takeover, in the rural areas away from the CO, Verizon....did nothing. You still can't even get Caller ID via a Verizon landline unless you are within DSL distance form the CO (which I am not).
The favorite local Verizon rep story, as told to me, goes something like this: At a local-Government level meeting, a Verizon rep was taking a lot of heat from elected officials. In a moment of candid honesty, he stated: "It's not that Verizon does not care about Oak Harbor; it's not that Verizon doesn't care about Island County: Verizon doesn't care about Washington State".
So, I am hopefully looking forward to frontier's takeover here in WA.
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Rob23
@windstream.net | Re: Can't do worse than Verizon did in WA State Now both frontier & fairpoint can apply (they already have ) for broadband stimulus grants and loans something Verizon was not going to do, all 14 states will now benefit from the 7.2 billion federal money. | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Can't do worse than Verizon did in WA State $ to discount DSL prices for 2 years, then poof | |
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Z80
1 point 77
Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
| If it is so bad, why is it worth so much? We have read about how horrible the conditions of these rural infrastructures are, but I wonder then why are they worth so much money? If they are a disaster than will cost hundreds of millions of billions to make competitive, how is Verizon getting billions for them? | |
| | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: If it is so bad, why is it worth so much? said by Z80 : If they are a disaster than will cost hundreds of millions of billions to make competitive, how is Verizon getting billions for them? If you're the suspicious type, you might suspect a little sock-puppetry. Any way Verizon could be controlling Frontier behind the scenes? | |
| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| "Barely" 3 Mbps? I'd be thrilled to get 3 Mbps when Frontier takes over. Verizon refuses to give us squat.
Our neighborhood would hold a party, make a big pile of all those Wildblue dishes we have, and run over them with a road compactor.  | |
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA | Frontier To Inherit Some Very Shoddy Verizon Copper Headline should've read like so:
Frontier To Inherit Some Very Shoddy Verizon Copper to add to their own stockpile of Shoddy Copper.
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
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wvajoke
@optonline.net | 4-1-2010 Google invents a broadband technology delivered by CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGY! | |
| | | HJM13
join:2009-09-04
Charleston, WV
| C'mon... A different perspective is badly needed here (and yes, I’m with Verizon).
First, and I’m sure this was an honest error, but it’s, “FRONTIER continues to insist they're ready…”
Second, Frontier has laid out why it’s different (»wvgazette.com/Opinion/Letters/20···ld=cache) from companies involved in past Verizon transactions. It has a proven track record of successful acquisitions dating back many years.
Third, West Virginia has made solid progress in broadband deployment, as availability has increased from 60% to 80% in the past couple of years alone.
Fourth, Verizon continues to invest in West Virginia, bringing DSL to additional residents and businesses in Harrison County and rural Grant County (»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···t-5.html) within the past three weeks. And Frontier has said that it will focus on increasing broadband availability in unserved parts of the Verizon properties it is acquiring. | |
| | 
Omne
join:2000-09-22
Dunbar, WV
·ViaTalk
| Re: C'mon... Sounds Like a PR guys spin on this, if this is such a good deal then why is everyone in the world lining up opposing this transaction. Verizon's track record in the past deal are lousy and they ones that get screwed is the consumer and the workers (craft and Management alike). The terrible copper is the company's fault for taking profits from WV to put into FIOS instead of reinvesting in the up keep. | |
| bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | crap My mom is 120 feet from the CO for the town (village really) that she lives in and they can't even get her to 3Mbits........And she's already on Frontier. | |
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yolarry
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV | States like West Viriginia will prove to be a huge test... Bring the Test over here!
I sure could use DSL. | |
| Grafton
join:2006-08-26
Morgantown, WV | hoping for the better If they can manage to get dsl farther out into the hills than where is is now then way to go. I still have some family on dialup because there is no other option for hsi, ( satellite is not hsi, imho) | |
| | kp420wv
join:2006-10-24
Fairmont, WV
·ntelos.com
| Re: hoping for the better said by Grafton :If they can manage to get dsl farther out into the hills than where is is now then way to go. I still have some family on dialup because there is no other option for hsi, ( satellite is not hsi, imho) thats the truth, i live 10 miles south of morgantown and everyone out here uses cell phones due to terrible lines, ntelos aircards for broadband (they were the first to get evdo running, before that it was terribad hughes) and sat for tv because there is no other choice.
I hope Frontier really knows what it is getting into taking over a system that has probably not been touched in decades.
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HN7000S G16 970Mhz | |
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EveryName
Wake Up
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Montreal
·Shaw
| 5GB cap? I'd go over that in a day... From »www.frontier.com/5GB/ :
"We all love the Internet, and Frontier is committed to offering you all the bandwidth you need and want to take full advantage of the Web! Our basic residential Internet packages offers 5GB usage -- that's the equivalent of 500,000 basic text e-mails, 2,500 Photos, 40,000 Web Pages, over 300 Hours of Online Game Time, 1,250 downloaded songs, or a mixture of the above!"
"How many gigabytes do I currently use per month?
Customer usage varies by household and by market. Our typical Frontier household uses less than 1.5GB or 1,500 megabytes a month. Many of our customers use a lot less than this amount and we only have a small number of customers who use more than this amount."
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| | wolfy339
join:2005-04-30
Edmonds, WA
2 edits | Re: 5GB cap? I'd go over that in a day... wouldn't take long to blow through 5GB for me either...McAfee firewall reports that last month I used 11.18 gig down and 1.61 gig up (for a combined total of about 12.79 gig, and granted a lot of that is streaming radio and Counter-Strike but still...) and so far this month I am looking at almost 2.5gig combined download+upload. Note: I am on the 768/128 package that Verizon has. FWIW: in all likelihood (assuming the sale gets approved by WUTC) I would recommend my parents switch ISPs (they are paying the bill, so...) as a 5GB cap (enforced or not) is not very reasonable to me (although Frontier may beg to differ).
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Computer: PIII/733, 512MB DDR RAM, ATI Xpert2000, 60&320GB HDDs, Windows XP PRO SP3, Mcafee 2009 AV/FW, Creative SB Live, Samsung SyncMaster 2243BWX, Verizon DSL 768/128 w/ Westell 6100 C90 | |
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mountain top
@direcpc.com
| Worse than Satellite Broadband !!! That's WORSE than Hughesnet and WildBlue satellite broadband. The lowest package they have offers 5 GB but at least they have packages that offer higher than 5 GB. The speed would be faster on Frontier but that would just mean that it would not take as long before the 5 GB limit sets in. I don't see with all the video's people are watching and everything people do online anymore how 5 GB limit is going to cut it at all!
I think they will lose a lot of customers to Suddenlink and other cable providers, heck maybe even lose them to cell phone companies that only offer a 5 GB limit but is portable and can drop the landline since their DSL is limited so badly once the takover starts. | |
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This is the other side of Fios expansion
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