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Canada Embraces Open Access
Independent ISPs get access to faster incumbent networks
by Karl Bode Tuesday 31-Aug-2010 tags: competition · business · bandwidth · Bell Sympatico · TekSavvy DSL
Canadian regulatory authority the CRTC hasn't exactly been a friend to Canada's smaller, independent ISPs over the last few years. As such, it's interesting to see users in our Canadian forums direct our attention to the fact that the CRTC has ruled in favor of small operators, and is forcing larger carriers to offer wholesale access to services at the same speeds they themselves offer. As the CBC notes, the ruling reinforces a 2008 ruling Canada's incumbents had been lobbying to derail. Popular independent Candian ISP TekSavvy issued this statement (pdf):

"This decision ensures that competitors of the incumbent telephone and cable companies obtain access to the same speeds that the telephone and cable companies provide to their own retail customers. It also removes some important shortcomings in the high-speed wholesale services known as Third Party Internet Access ("TPIA") required by competitors.

Like here in the States, smaller independent ISPs weren't being allowed access to faster fiber-based networks, meaning they had to offer slower service via DSL. Now, carriers are being told to share their networks at a 10% markup over cost. Here in the States incumbent carriers have lobbied and threatened regulators away from the concept, but studies have shown that countries with "open access" regulatory policies do ultimately see more competition -- and as a result, lower prices. Of course the CRTC still has to enforce this policy.

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rustydusty

join:2009-09-29

Finally!

We Canadians are proud to finally see something change. Although we do see the 'light at the end of the tunnel', we still have a long ways to go. We will continue to fight though, and never backing down!

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Not over yet

Bell is hinting at going to cabinet again,cabinet can over rule the CRTC on its own within 90 days.The cable co's dont like parts of either so who knows what they will do.
gruntlord6

join:2010-06-10
Barrie, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Amazing

yet it still falls short. Cable operators arnt allowed markup, and wholesalers cannot wholesale cable or satellite services.
However its a step in the right direction as now theres no speed differentiation. Ill take my 7mb upload please

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: Amazing

Cable has a big mark up allready built into the tariff
gruntlord6

join:2010-06-10
Barrie, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Re: Amazing

said by andyb:

Cable has a big mark up allready built into the tariff
then why are they complaining?

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Re: Amazing

said by gruntlord6:

said by andyb:

Cable has a big mark up allready built into the tariff
then why are they complaining?
Because the CRTC told them to make some new access points

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
said by gruntlord6:

said by andyb:

Cable has a big mark up allready built into the tariff
then why are they complaining?
Because they don't like having most of the pie. They want all of it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
But not the extra markup for higher speeds that required "significant investment" to enable (IE: Docsis 3.0) that the ILECs are getting for services using new equipment.

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
said by gruntlord6:

yet it still falls short.

However its a step in the right direction as now theres no speed differentiation. Ill take my 7mb upload please
The catch-22 is that the 10% over wholesale cost figure is based on what the telcos say cost is. Some creative accounting can inflate the costs and the CRTC has not been very effective in auditing what telco costs REALLY are.

By fudging the real costs, the telcos can make the competitors prices non-competitive to their own,.

eh wut

@mc.videotron.ca

misleading title

I'm not sure I would exactly call this "Open Access".

That Guy

@rogers.com

Re: misleading title

agreed, isn't there still traffic shaping in effect when the ISP leases broadband from a large telecom?

AkFubar
Nothing is more constant than change

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

1 edit

An encouraging first step...

... towards the 21st century reality for Canada. Long overdue!

cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand

Remotes

If they open up the remotes then we could call it open access, this is only good if your ISP has equipment in bells CO and you are close enough to it.

If you are not then this ruling means absolutely... Not much. You get faster speeds on gas which is crippled as of right now.

This ruling looks like a life preserver for indy ISP's, but it is much better then they had in the first place. So its a win lose case.

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: Remotes

The ruling includes remotes.They use a crossover switch or something like that to connect the isp with the remote.Same way bell does it for them selves.

XNemesis

join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Yak Communications

Bring on the 2+ years of stall tactics now

We'll see if this ruling has any teeth or Cabinet will just overrule it; or this will just get bogged down in red tape for the next few years with no actual usable benefits for the consumer; OR We'll get the matching speeds but they'll be so crippled with low caps (200gig or less), yes I said 200gig, I consider that a low cap for a 25mb line, and offensive overage charges, thereby making these matching speeds useless.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Positive step... but what about the Caps?

Can they still force usage caps and overages?
bt

join:2009-02-26
canada

Re: Positive step... but what about the Caps?

For the moment, yes. The decision that allowed that is currently in a "Review and Vary" process.

Jethro86

join:2005-05-27
Winchester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

I see whats going to happen...

Bell will drag their feet and finally concede "defeat" and hand out faster speeds to wholesalers.
Then drop the hammer and lower the caps with massive overage fees so all those users that finally get faster speeds hit their caps even quicker generating more cash.

iFly55

join:2010-01-19
canada

Re: I see whats going to happen...

Canada is one of the only countries in the world with usage caps

Below the 49th parallel they can use their paid-for internet as they please
pb2k

join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB
kudos:1

Networks cost money to build...

I don't know how things are setup in the east, but in telus land, (as far as I can tell) the competitive ISPs have to lay out cash for little more than a regional POP and then everything else (edge router, aggregator, fiber, dslam, local loop) all belong to telus. I can certainly see why the large ISPs are irritated about spending tens of billions to build a network only to have some tiny company come along and expect to use it for a pittance.

Chuck Carlso

@teksavvy.com

Re: Networks cost money to build...

Correction the Canadian taxpayers paid for Bell's network and infrastructure.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: Networks cost money to build...

said by Chuck Carlso :

Correction the Canadian taxpayers paid for Bell's network and infrastructure.
Taxpayers subsidized the ubiquitous and affordable phone service for all as a mandated essential service long before the IP protocol's inception. Very little of the infrastructure from those days would be usable to deliver xDSL; nearly everything had to be rebuilt over the past 15 years specifically for that and completely off Bell's own dime.
Chynkinese

join:2010-05-05
Ottawa, ON

Re: Networks cost money to build...

said by InvalidError:

said by Chuck Carlso :

Correction the Canadian taxpayers paid for Bell's network and infrastructure.
Taxpayers subsidized the ubiquitous and affordable phone service for all as a mandated essential service long before the IP protocol's inception. Very little of the infrastructure from those days would be usable to deliver xDSL; nearly everything had to be rebuilt over the past 15 years specifically for that and completely off Bell's own dime.
However, Bell's dime was generated using infrastructure that was subsidized by our pennies. Without our pennis, Bell might only have a nickel at this point.
InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

Re: Networks cost money to build...

said by Chynkinese:

However, Bell's dime was generated using infrastructure that was subsidized by our pennies. Without our pennis, Bell might only have a nickel at this point.
And half of Canada would not have affordable phone service or would have gotten it several decades later, much like how many remote areas are paying 2-5X the price for 2-10X slower and much less reliable broadband service than urban areas today... some do not even have any viable broadband options at all.

The POTS subsidies came with the obligation to serve rural/remote areas with the same or similar phone service and pricing available in urban areas. Urban areas were always profitable so that part of the telcos' network never needed subsidizing.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

misleading

OH GREAT i cna get 7 megabit now ....with a 75GB CAP
where i had 4megabit unlimited

STUFF it is what i say give me unlimited of give me nothing
sick of a 70$ bill for less value what are we 31st for download speeds and 54th for uploads?

ya and they dont consider this thorttling to 25Kbytes/sec
its the morons buying into MLPPP that keep this universe of scam going and ya know one day they will realize how ripped off they are

eh wut

@mc.videotron.ca

Re: misleading

said by chronoss2009:

STUFF it is what i say give me unlimited of give me nothing
sick of a 70$ bill for less value what are we 31st for download speeds and 54th for uploads?

its the morons buying into MLPPP that keep this universe of scam going and ya know one day they will realize how ripped off they are
Um, Teksavvy 4-meg DSL, non-mlppp internet is 70$? Since when?

I'm calling BS on you.
munky99999
Munky

join:2004-04-10
canada
Reviews:
·Cybersurf Intern..

Not open access at all.

They gave the option of matched speed. Which really would kill resellers if they didnt give the matching speed. Which in of itself would end with the government needing to take action.

What we really needed was CO colocation which got denied.

Ultimately now the current situation is that the current existing giant ISPS still keep full control and actual competition of upstart isps has stayed just as impossible.
--
--
if (value == 0)
return value;
else
return 0;

CanerisErik
Caneris
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-03
Toronto, ON
kudos:2

Re: Not open access at all.

said by munky99999:

What we really needed was CO colocation which got denied.
CO colocation has existed for over 10 years, has been used by competitors, and wasn't under consideration in this proceeding. You're confusing the unaggregated ADSL access service that was considered here with CO colocation.
--
Erik - Caneris Inc.

FAC

@rr.com
Agreed. Equal speed over someone else's platform is not the same as equal access to the underlying infrastructure. For that, a truly "open networks" regime would have to be instituted that made points of interconnection readily available to all comers.

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