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Canadian ISPs Fire Up Attacks On Canadian Broadband Critiques
Canadian broadband is fine, nothing to see here...
Canadian telecom circles have been busy this week discussing a new report (pdf) from Harvard (and commissioned by the FCC) highlighting how Canada's starting to lag in terms of broadband speed, price, and penetration. This led to calls from Canadian media outlets like the Globe And Mail for the Canadian government to start instituting a broadband plan that increases competition in the Canadian market. Not surprisingly, carriers like Rogers Communications fired back, lobbyist Jan Innes proclaiming that data suggesting Canada had competitive problems was "flawed":

For Canada to win in a global digital economy, our country needs to establish a national vision that looks beyond the often-flawed statistical rankings of broadband infrastructure. What we need to understand is why so many Canadian households still don't have computers, why Canada is lagging in scientific research, and how we should best promote the development of Canadian content and applications.

As we've been illustrating for some time, part of Canada's problem is that they've been copying the United States approach to broadband policy. Which would be fine, if U.S. policy for the last decade hadn't consisted of letting the biggest and wealthiest carriers dictate policy, crush independent competition, and even write telecom laws. A popular tactic in selling this type of policy in the States has long been the use of paid consultants to act as "objective" analysts, who'll loyally parrot ISP talking points to the press. Enter consultant Mark Goldberg, who writes this on his blog about the need for a national Canadian broadband plan:

For Canada to win in a global digital economy, our country needs to establish our own national vision that looks beyond the often-flawed and out-of-date statistical rankings of broadband infrastructure. What we need to understand is why so many Canadian households still don’t have computers; why Canada is lagging in scientific research; and, how we should best promote the development of Canadian content and applications.

Looks familiar. Of course by attacking any data that dares claim Canada has broadband issues, carriers in both the U.S. and Canada have tried to convince the press and public there really aren't broadband problems that need fixing. That in turn ensures continued competitive issues and high prices, which is just the way incumbent carriers in any country like it. In the real world, you can ask users in our Canadian broadband forums if they think Canada has broadband competition problems. Make sure specifically to ask them how much they enjoy incredibly low monthly caps and high per gigabyte overages.

Update: At least one user writes in to note that Goldberg claims the Globe and Mail screwed up, and the original letter to the editor was written by Goldman himself, not Rogers lobbyist Jan Innes. Even if not direct plagiarism (and we've seen no retraction by the Globe and Mail), Goldberg has worked as an analyst for Canada's biggest carriers in the past on reports claiming that Canda's broadband market is secretly awesome, so draw your own conclusions.

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jam_bongo

join:2002-07-17
Toronto, ON

outright plagiarism

Now most school systems these days have a zero tolerance policy towards plagiarism, it's time we take that approach to so called 'telecoms analysts'
backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
Reviews:
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Re: outright plagiarism

what a hack!

He pretty much copied word for word the Rogers response on his blog!

And he really wants to be taken seriously on his critizisms of HARVARD published studies?

What a clown. Then they start with the cherry picking about Videotron's network (pretty much the only advanced network in Canada offered to consumers). A net positive.

He ignores the fact that most of their plans come with 20gb caps and huge overage charges which are non existant in areas with competition.
Anonimuz

join:2008-12-08
canada

Population

You definitely have to take in consideration how much more land ISPs have to cover here, than in the US. Of course we are going to be behind in penetration. US is 32 per square KM vs 3.4 for Canada.

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: Population

No we don't.Half the country lives along the Quebec city-Windsor corridor.
Anonimuz

join:2008-12-08
canada

Re: Population

Well if the survey only covered this area, then we would be doing fantastic. Unfortunately they consider the country as a whole.

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: Population

Why would we be doing great? I live in that corridor and there is nothing great about broadband here.

El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
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Re: Population

said by andyb:

Why would we be doing great? I live in that corridor and there is nothing great about broadband here.
So do I... but the point is that we're not doing great; and you can't use density (or lack of) to explain it all away.
--
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vintagewino

join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON
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Re: Population

Likewise!

Paying for 5056/800, but can only get a good, stable 3008/512.

My friend across town can't even GET DSL. We're talking a town of 20000 people.

Where do these idiots get off saying out broadband is so wonderful? It sucks the big one!

Ooooohhhh, Oh so wonderful!! Internationally, Canada is 38/39. Some who blow us out of the water: Estonia 24/22, Andorra (9/6); and Japan (3/2). Source: »speedtest.net/global.php#0

Sadly, a scant 8 years ago, we were within the top 3. Not any more!

We're an international JOKE, not a leader in internet.

Oh, I apologize: we ARE a leader when we compare cost vs performance - the most expensive for poor performance. And if UBB goes through, we'll be the totally undisputed leaders for expensive garbage.
MicaTurbo

join:2001-08-27
Ottawa, ON

1 edit
Except the population is not dispersed evenly across the entire country.

edit: beat me to it :x

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
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1 edit
said by Anonimuz:

You definitely have to take in consideration how much more land ISPs have to cover here, than in the US. Of course we are going to be behind in penetration. US is 32 per square KM vs 3.4 for Canada.
Population density is low when spread over Canada's entire land mass. But practical population density is MUCH higher because most people live in dense areas along the US border.
»atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/m···tion2001

79.4% of Canadians lived in an urban centre of 10 000 people or more

Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun

join:2006-04-19
japan

Re: Population

Yeah, the population density excuse is getting old. It's basically a lie concocted by Western ISP's to explain why Japan and other "densely populated" Asian countries have such good internet infrastructures.

I live in the second least populated Prefecture in Japan, and I used to live in a town of less than 3000 people. I had DSL that was 7Mbits/780kbps (actual speed)

I moved to the prefectures capital (less than 200k people), and I can get fibre optics or cable internet, or DSL, etc... Fibre and Cable require a 2 year contract, and you might need to pay the install fee for cable, but they waive it for fibre if you complete the 2 year contract.

Companies here are just forced to upgrade their networks since the Japanese government promotes competition and allows open access to smaller ISP's.

El Quintron
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Save your apologies for the boardroom or your next PR startegy meeting.

The population density argument is irrelevant, because as stated 51% lives along the QC-Windsor Corridor and the rest live along the Canada US border anyways.

So in case you passed PR and Failed demographics, there is population density here, and its in a straight line accross the coutryside.
--
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nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
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said by Anonimuz:

You definitely have to take in consideration how much more land ISPs have to cover here, than in the US. Of course we are going to be behind in penetration. US is 32 per square KM vs 3.4 for Canada.
I call bullcrap.

Why don't we (and you) have blazing fast speeds, low prices and universal coverage in cities like New York, Toronto, Chicago, etc.?

For god's sake, I live in the Washington DC metro area in Maryland and until just 4 months ago, I had a choice of ONE provider for broadband (now I have 2!).

go see table 3a at

»www.oecd.org/document/54/0,3343,···,00.html

the correlation between pop. density and penetration is very low at 0.26

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada
Population Density is a feeble excuse. Another load of bat-squeeze to try to dupe the stakeholders into the status quo.
--
Wednesday, February 24, 2010: Canada 7, Russia 3

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:29

Re: Population

Hey, it worked here in the States as a primary reason to do NOTHING about our broadband problems for going on a decade....

"Well gosh, there's like, fields and stuff."

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Re: Population

In my home county, we have more cows then people. Oddly this seems to be the main reason why people are getting pissed at companies. We're already surrounded by bullshit.
Ravage_D
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join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
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I'm not surprised you posted under the name "Anonimuz". I wonder which of the companies you actually work for? Bell? Rogers?

Right now I'm watching their add about how they have the "fastest service in the country". Okay, well, maybe with your Fibe bullshit. But that's hardly the fastest in the country.

Novus offers 200Mbit in Downtown Vancouver -- the FASTEST IN CANADA.

Besides, "Fibe" internet is merely ADSL2+, no? With a play on words to make it sound like Fiber and further confuse Canadians? Yes, yes...that sounds exactly right.

Oh and bragging about being the leader of the slowest is not right. You're the reason you're the "fastest", anybody else gets squashed.

Now, to address the population issue. Other people posted something about it, but not enough.

The size of the corridor is no bigger than New England, with densities in some places probably exactly the same. 50% of our population lives here, so that's 15 Million people.

15 Million people in an area about the size of New York State. Yes, I think you can offer some faster speeds.

I can't believe the sheer corruption.
bond787

join:2002-06-25
Guy
Just being Canadian you get reap off

The Canadian are the biggest loser in communication

El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
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It comes as no surprise...

Canada is even more screwed that the US when it comes to broadband, because the companies the provide the internet, also own the phone system, and the media.

So The Globe and Mail-CTV-Bell-Expressview

vs.

Rogers-CHUM-Rogers Media-Rogers Cable

You can bet your last dollar that the minute someone mentions that there may be a problem with our current system, by unpatriotically stating, that Canadians may not be getting value for their internet dollard, their spin machine will be set in motion.
--
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ptrowski
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1 edit

Re: It comes as no surprise...

said by El Quintron:

Canada is even more screwed that the US when it comes to broadband, because the companies the provide the internet, also own the phone system, and the media.
You mean like what Comcast is trying to do down here in the States?
--
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El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
Premium
join:2008-04-28
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kudos:2

Re: It comes as no surprise...

Yeah pretty much.

When they bough (NBC was it?) it pretty much killed any pretense of neutral infrastructure didn't it?
--
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Re: It comes as no surprise...

Yes sir. So they would control the content and the delivery. We know they are sneaky after getting busted once before.

El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
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Re: It comes as no surprise...

said by ptrowski:

Yes sir. So they would control the content and the delivery.
And that's the entire problem... no internet provider who's true business was to provide internet would ever dream of throttling or capping, but if you're selling a service that's going cannabalize another service...
--
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ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
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Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

Canada is going thru the same thing as the US in that the expansion of a competitive wireless environment(a new foreign competitor has just started up) with new higher speeds makes studies that only look at wired nets increasingly outdated.

The GSMA lists 17 HSPA mobile networks in the world operating at 21 Mbps. Three of them are in Canada, the only 3 in North America.

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

Looks like a twitter quote from Hennessy
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by ThrowDemsOut:

Canada is going thru the same thing as the US in that the expansion of a competitive wireless environment(a new foreign competitor has just started up) with new higher speeds makes studies that only look at wired nets increasingly outdated.

The GSMA lists 17 HSPA mobile networks in the world operating at 21 Mbps. Three of them are in Canada, the only 3 in North America.
Wireless will never be able to replace wired for its reliability and robustness.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

said by sonicmerlin:

said by ThrowDemsOut:

Canada is going thru the same thing as the US in that the expansion of a competitive wireless environment(a new foreign competitor has just started up) with new higher speeds makes studies that only look at wired nets increasingly outdated.

The GSMA lists 17 HSPA mobile networks in the world operating at 21 Mbps. Three of them are in Canada, the only 3 in North America.
Wireless will never be able to replace wired for its reliability and robustness.
Or performance.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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That's odd; T-Mobile is testing HSPA+ here in the States, and I know that at least Bend Broadband has an HSPA+ network. That said, we'll be skipping to LTE for our largest carriers (Verizon and AT&T) and WiMAX for Sprint.

That said, Canadians have HSPA+ pretty much wherever they go. We can say the same thing about EvDO, but not of HSPA/+/WIMAX/LTE.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

said by iansltx:

That's odd; T-Mobile is testing HSPA+ here in the States, and I know that at least Bend Broadband has an HSPA+ network. That said, we'll be skipping to LTE for our largest carriers (Verizon and AT&T) and WiMAX for Sprint.
Verizon has never had a UMTS network to "skip" anything.

said by iansltx:

That said, Canadians have HSPA+ pretty much wherever they go. We can say the same thing about EvDO, but not of HSPA/+/WIMAX/LTE.
That's not true at all. The carriers here do not even come close to having HSPA+ pretty much wherever we go.

Wireless Broadband will never replace wired services in any large numbers especially to home. It just doesn't come close with the performance, reliability or robustness.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

I never said that wireless will replace wired. However you guys have a full overlay on HSPA+, something that can't be said for US carriers.
Ravage_D
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Re: Wireless broadband expansion changing the game

said by iansltx:

I never said that wireless will replace wired. However you guys have a full overlay on HSPA+, something that can't be said for US carriers.
And a cap of 1 Gigabyte for $30/month.

Fantastic.

poleymountai

@bellaliant.net
brad - in Atlantic Canada HSPA+ is everywhere. I was in remote Sussex NB at the ski hill this weekend(where they don't even have dialup about 14k) and could pull 3mbps on Bells new HSPA network.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Let's take a quick look...

Seems like Rogers' statements are flat-out lies when you look at the services that are offered, specifically on the upload and transfer cap side.

-Rogers tops out at 2 Mbps up with a 175GB cap
-Videotron stops at 1 Mbps up with a 100GB cap
-Shaw blows everyone on cable out of the water with a whopping 5 Mbps up and a 400GB cap, though the service costs 50% more than Rogers, and nearly 100% more than Videotron. It's 100 Mbps down though.
-Telus is 16 Mbps down, 1 Mbps up, so I hear. I don't think they have caps.
-Bell has FTTH deployments in some areas, with a whopping 60 Mbps down and 15 Mbps up, including high transfer caps. However Novus (with its very high speeds) is available in more placed.
-Bell also has VDSL with up to 7 Mbps up. Problem is, caps are low, though for a few bucks you can buy yourself a higher cap

I'd be more willing to think that Canada doesn't have a broadband problem if the cable companies' tiers mirrored Comcast's in the U.S. But they don't...Canada is upload-starved. The only areas with more than 7 Mbps up are those with fiber, and many places can't get above 1-2 Mbps. That's just crap when you have to pay $80+ to get even 1 Mbps up.

See 6 replies to this post
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

This can be done easier and cheaper...

The easiest way to make Canadian broadband better...

Stop using the U.S. as a template for doing broadband business.

The U.S. broadband industry is broken right now. No fix in sight other than starting up the cyanide gas chambers and sending an Outlook calendar event to all the Broadband Co. executives to a "required Tiger team meeting" in said chamber.

Which is not too bad a solution actually....
MaynardKrebs
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Re: This can be done easier and cheaper...

said by axiomatic:

The easiest way to make Canadian broadband better...

Stop using the U.S. as a template for doing broadband business.

The U.S. broadband industry is broken right now. No fix in sight other than starting up the cyanide gas chambers and sending an Outlook calendar event to all the Broadband Co. executives to a "required Tiger team meeting" in said chamber.

Which is not too bad a solution actually....
+1

Abattoir

join:2008-03-27
Ottawa, ON

Not plagiarism

According to an email I received from Mark, the letter was actually written by Mark, not Jan Innes. The G&M mistakenly attributed it to Ms. Innes.

Until we hear otherwise from the G&M or Ms. Innes, this post should be closed and a clarification issued.

See 12 replies to this post
jfd15

join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

hmmm....

not sure i got this right:

(U.S.) FCC commissions a Harvard study of the Canadian internet??

and nobody else finds this ridiculous...

matradley
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Ontario
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Re: hmmm....

said by jfd15:

not sure i got this right:

(U.S.) FCC commissions a Harvard study of the Canadian internet??

and nobody else finds this ridiculous...
I cannot gauge if you agree with the report or not. However, don't you find it ridiculous that it takes another agency, Harvard in this instance, in another country to shine the light in the eyes of the pompous and blind executives running the country?

JunjiHiroma
Teksavvy's Prodigy

join:2008-03-18

Well...

My response to the telco's:
I wonder if they'll hire a Canadian Version Of Glenn Beck as the PR Spinmaster

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