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Canadian Telcos Use Anti-NSA Fears to Attack Verizon
by Karl Bode 08:16AM Tuesday Aug 20 2013 Tipped by Bill Neilson See Profile
It has been incredibly amusing to watch Canadian incumbents Bell, Telus and Rogers, no strangers to abusive and predatory anti-competitive behavior at every opportunity, kick, scream and cry about Verizon's possible entry into the Canadian market. Now that the predators are having to fight a real predator and the possibility of real competition, they're doing what any good, anti-competitive incumbent would do: engage in propaganda, disinformation and smear attacks.

The company first launched a Fair for Canada TV and radio campaign that has employees reading scripted statements proclaiming that Verizon will steal Canadian jobs. The ads insist that companies with a history of working for unlevel playing fields, were simply interested in level playing fields. The incumbents are now adding another wrinkle to their plan, and will be using the ongoing NSA scandal in the States to stoke fears of Verizon's market entry:
quote:
The planned campaign, which has yet to get a final green light, will focus on how Verizon's entry into Canada could open the door to overreaching surveillance and a loss of privacy for Canadians, said the sources, who declined to be named as the plans are not yet public. If the companies sign off on the proposals, the ads will start appearing in newspapers, online and on radio next week in the hope that they will swing public opinion behind the three players and persuade the government to change its mind.
While Verizon handing off every shred of data to the United States government is a very clear reality, it's probably no worse than what Bell, Telus and Rogers are already engaged in themselves (and all Canadian data is being monitored one way or the other). Reports recently surfaced stating that Verizon was pausing on buying any of the smaller Canadian carriers for sale until it was clear what kind of spectrum they could acquire at the upcoming Canadian spectrum auction.

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Mash

@teksavvy.com

Well that's pretty cute

Of course the "canadian telcos" forget to mention that any company that operates here are bound to the same privacy laws and regulations that they are.
Raiden

join:2002-02-19
Port Colborne, ON

Re: Well that's pretty cute

The US government wants Canada to change its privacy laws. This would allow the banks ( here in Canada)to report US customers to the IRS.This is called discrimination. When going to a bank in Canada you will have to prove you are not a US person. Look up the word "FATCA ".
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Well that's pretty cute

I think you have dumbed down FATCA a little bit too much.

You do not have to prove you are not a US person in Canada any more than you have to do it in other countries when you OPEN an account, not when you are going to a bank. In addition, this really only affects dual citizens whom are generally trying to hide their money anyway.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
said by Mash :

Of course the "canadian telcos" forget to mention that any company that operates here are bound to the same privacy laws and regulations that they are.

Haven't you heard? Our NSA is above ALL laws and ALL rules. They can do whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want. Best keep them and their shills (U.S. Telcos) out altogether.

--
"Remember, remember the fifth of November.
Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot."

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people"


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: Well that's pretty cute

said by TamaraB:

said by Mash :

Of course the "canadian telcos" forget to mention that any company that operates here are bound to the same privacy laws and regulations that they are.

Haven't you heard? Our NSA is above ALL laws and ALL rules. They can do whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want. Best keep them and their shills (U.S. Telcos) out altogether.

US doesn't need Verizon WIRELESS in Canada to monitor Canadian telecom and internet data. Canadian international telco connections all run thru US based fiber cables on their way here and elsewhere. And as part of NATO, Canada is already sharing their own monitoring with US authorities.

And ANY wireless communications anywhere in the word, including Canada, are already monitored by US spy satellites.

--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Well that's pretty cute

US doesn't need Verizon WIRELESS in Canada to monitor Canadian telecom and internet data.

Precisely.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
said by FFH:

US doesn't need Verizon WIRELESS in Canada to monitor Canadian telecom and internet data.

Just because you have a few Cockroaches in your house, doesn't mean you should invite more in. If someday, you want to be Roach free, it's best to limit whatever incursions you can now.

It would be good for the U.S to have foreign companies refuse to use U.S. information systems. It's beginning to happen with cloud services, and possibly email. The only pressure the U.S. understands is financial. If things are going to change for the better here, it will be through loss of yankee dollars, not loss of rights or privacy, or public outrage.

--
"Remember, remember the fifth of November.
Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot."

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people"


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

Re: Well that's pretty cute

said by TamaraB:

said by FFH:

US doesn't need Verizon WIRELESS in Canada to monitor Canadian telecom and internet data.

It would be good for the U.S to have foreign companies refuse to use U.S. information systems. It's beginning to happen with cloud services, and possibly email.

If it was actually be having a major effect which is a dubious assumption, you are suggesting individual or corporations moving their email or cloud business outside the US were it is unquestionable legal for the NSA (and almost everyone else) to gather info, is somehow safer?

As you note, in this (NSA) case, the public outrage and it's effect are minimal.
DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1
Yes but the real world knows that the US is its own nation which has over stepped its boundary's and needs to be pushed back into its own country where it belongs.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

FUD?

So I guess the term 'FUD' is passé?

buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

All though Verizon and to an extent ATT ( Note: ATT was already there decades ago) are the real threat to the Canadian Telco Monopolies if ether two were jump across the river there really would be no change in the Canadian market prices for wireless and data would still remain the same ( actually worse as Wind still has unlimited Verizon would kill that off). The only thing that would happen is The big three (rogers, bell ,telus) would lose a lot of current subscribes who roam in the USA to Verizon as they would be finally given a formidable roaming plan for when they want to come to the USA. This was already done before, I had ATT in the 90s and when north of the border Rogers was Rogers/ATT wireless ( this was in the days of TDMA) I had the option to add Canada roaming for $10! No per min charges, it just came out of my minutes at no additional cost even nights and weekends were free. Imagine now if you had unlimited talk and txt on both sides NO MORE .50-.99c PER MIN. and data will still coming out of your plan. Currently data roaming on ether side US or CAD is between $1-2 per MB.. YES I SAID MB !!

Im sure thats one of the biggest threats the Canadian telcos are worried about, not that Verizon will deeply undercut Canadian prices but they will have a nice "maybe even free" roaming when there customers decided to come state side, lets face it around 30% if not more of Canadians visit the USA and that's not including the snow birders!

How about this... the Smaller CAD telcos (Verizon is eyeing Wind) purchase up all 1700 mhz spectrum at the auction they can gobble up for southern Ontario and elsewhere, Verizon decides not to enter with 1700 mhz spectrum, Tmobile instead decides to enter as 1700 is there bread and butter. Canadian telcos have nothing to say over NSA fears as Tmobile is not as loose lipped as Verizon is when it comes to bending over and taking one up the wazoo. Also it could be run separately from TMO USA. However that may set of a chain reaction Of ATT trying to buy Wind or merge back with Rogers.
taraf

join:2011-05-07
Stittsville, ON

Re: Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

said by buddahbless:

Im sure thats one of the biggest threats the Canadian telcos are worried about, not that Verizon will deeply undercut Canadian prices but they will have a nice "maybe even free" roaming when there customers decided to come state side, lets face it around 30% if not more of Canadians visit the USA and that's not including the snow birders!

The telcos aren't objecting to Verizon entering the market, they're objecting to Verizon being allowed to have access to the same cut rate carrier fees that are afforded to companies like WIND and Mobilicity. Verizon's current customer base in the US is larger than the total population of Canada: why should they be allowed to take advantage of a program that was set up to allow small domestic businesses to get a foothold when they have the capital resources to build their own network?

mrherzog

join:2001-05-06
Calgary, AB
Reviews:
·TELUS

Re: Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

This^^^ right there is the biggest issue. Verizon will essentially be allowed to come in with virtually no start up cost (comparitively) and be operational with a ready made network. How is that fair?
THEN, tac on to that, Verizon will also be afforded a fair access 'right' to piggy back on the big 3's towers as though they were a start up.
Again, how is that fair?

I'm with the big 3 on this one. Every single Canadian (save for those who have already forgotten) that no Marican company has ever come to Canada and actually lowered rates for any time longer than it took to recoup entry costs.
Verizon will not stay lower for any extended period time and we'll be in the same boat in less than 3 years.

Treegravy
Premium
join:2011-04-21
canada
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Re: Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

said by mrherzog:

THEN, tac on to that, Verizon will also be afforded a fair access 'right' to piggy back on the big 3's towers as though they were a start up.
Again, how is that fair?

This bit is is the glossed over part. What this statement means is that Verizon PAYS commercially negotiated rates to access the towers. Pays. The owners (Robellus) PROFIT from the access! To say that they piggy pack and the 3 piggies will huff and sweat to carry Verizon is ludicrous. These negotiated rates are mandated so that the countryside doesn't fill up with countless towers put up by each and every player that wants to compete in an area!

mrherzog

join:2001-05-06
Calgary, AB
Reviews:
·TELUS

Re: Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

You're ommiting the part where ROBELLUS has no choice but to 'sell' access to Verizon.

Rogers doesn't have to let Bell on their tower if they so choose. BUT, they MUST permit access to Wind and or Mobilicity under the fair access rules. It is this little flaw in the system that Verizon will exploit. It was meant to promote growth by the little guy. Not be used as a logistic loophole by a comany fully capable of buying ROBELLUS in move.

Treegravy
Premium
join:2011-04-21
canada
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed

3 edits

Re: Verizon in Canada, ATT was already there...

That still doesn't change the fact that the incumbents get well compensated for access. That also doesn't change the fact that we can't have towers going up willy nilly everywhere and it also sidesteps the sweetheart deals the incumbents make with each other onto each others' networks to make growth easier.

The fact remains that Verizon is a new entrant into the Canadian market and as such should be afforded all the rights given to any new entrant. The size of Verizon doesn't make its use of regulatory easement a loophole.

In the final analysis, even if the net effect of Verizon's entry into the Canadian market has zero impact on the prices customers pay (which I seriously doubt), it will still be good.

The arrogance of the incumbents' pricing structures such that we have a Bell executive giving testimony like the final words in this video needs to change in the worst way:

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···hg&t=107

Edits: Figuring out the video posting peculiarities.
LucasLee

join:2010-11-26
kudos:1
just wanted to say thank you for actually stating the issue. i've been reading this american-centric coverage and Karl Bode is completely missing the important details coming off smug as if he is looking down on the poor confused and mislead canucks.

the problem is, verizon should not be allowed to enter the canadian market by purchasing spectrum space at a discounted rate that was designed for new, essentially canadian owned entrants.

they should pay the same rates as the current incumbents.

all other aspects are public policy theatre attempting to simply raise awareness of the issue however possible midst an apathetic population.