 | | As the old saying goes "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes." (Attributed to Dennis Ritchie) | |
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 |  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: As the old saying goes said by Bobcat:"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes." (Attributed to Dennis Ritchie) Back in the early 1990's there was a well known tech support transcript floating around that said something to the effect:
Customer: What is the fastest way to move 1GB of data from San Francisco to San Jose overnight?
Tech: FEDEX
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | | | Re: As the old saying goes It still holds true for large data transfers. That pigeon could beat my 35/35Mbit FIOS by a wide margin using 32GB MicroSDHC cards. I estimate about 56Mbit by pigeon (75mins 32GB). I bet a pigeon could hold at least 2-3 of those too, they are really tiny.
A station wagon full of 2TB drives could beat any connection known to man. | |
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| | | | | Re: As the old saying goes said by jriskin:It still holds true for large data transfers. That pigeon could beat my 35/35Mbit FIOS by a wide margin using 32GB MicroSDHC cards. I estimate about 56Mbit by pigeon (75mins 32GB). I bet a pigeon could hold at least 2-3 of those too, they are really tiny. Yes, but you'd better be prepared for packet loss and retransmits. RFC 2549 ((IPoAC) may be helpful in this regard. | |
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| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | said by jriskin:A station wagon full of 2TB drives could beat any connection known to man. I just did a quick check and although I couldn't find a speed record more recent than 2007, back then they claimed 25.6Tbps over a single fiber strand. If you divide by 8 bits, that's 3.2TB(ytes)ps. I'll add protocol overhead to make comparisons easy and claim only 2TBps. This means the station wagon is toast. The OP mentioned a 60 mile trek. If the station wagon travels at 60mph, it would take it 60 minutes. 60 minutes contains 3600 seconds meaning it has to carry 3,600 2TB drives to call it a tie.
A 2TB 3.5" disk weighs ~1.6 pounds. We can forget about volume because there's no way the station wagon would be able to haul 5,760 pounds (nearly three tons!) of disks.
This is one strand. Using 10 strands, it becomes difficult for even an eighteen wheeled truck to win. I read that modern fiber optic cables contain up to 1,000 strands. | |
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| | | said by Bobcat:"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes." (Attributed to Dennis Ritchie) Wrong guy. Andrew Tanenbaum wrote that in his classic textbook on computer networking Computer Networks.
The actual quote was Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Optimum Online
·EarthLink
| Re: As the old saying goesIts use predates that book by at least a decade:
quote:
Path: utzoo!utcs!pkern
From: pk...@utcs.UUCP (pkern)
Newsgroups: net.lan
Subject: words to live by
Date: Wed, 10-Jul-85 17:30:13 EDT
Organization: University of Toronto - General Purpose UNIX
Lines: 6
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a
station wagon full of tapes."
- some wise words from
Dr. Warren Jackson, Director, UTCS
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| | |  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: As the old saying goes Looks like the first edition of Computer Networks was printed in 1981. Jackson very well could have got the quote from Tanenbaum. | |
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| | | | | | Re: As the old saying goes Chances are, someone else said it first in the 1970's. | |
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| | LOL This article actually made my day!
LOL | |
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|  LazarusSlavin AwayPremium
join:2002-06-18
Dickinson, ND | Re: LOL So would the rockets be considered "speedboost?" | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit | »Carrier Pigeon Faster Than UK Broadband The next step is clearly affixing some kind of rocket technology to the birds. Here is the rocket powered carrier pigeon on the drawing board to bring broadband competition to the UK:
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| | Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 |  Re: LOL
 That bird would have to coo coo to press the start button! | |
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| | | That is some amazing UK technology. | |
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| | a1_AndyPremium
join:2005-12-29
Oshawa, ON Reviews:
 ·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: LOL I bet a donkey can carry way more data than a pigeon. So lets put the rocket on the donkey. | |
|
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
1 edit |  Giving an ISP the bird!
 It is always great to see someone giving an ISP the bird because of fowl service! | |
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| Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: Giving an ISP the bird! said by Mr Matt: It is always great to see someone giving an ISP the bird because of fowl service! PUN OVERLOAD !! | |
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| |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: Giving an ISP the bird! It's not broadband, it's BIRDBAND!
www.birdbandreports.com
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | time parameters Does the time include the time needed to upload the file to the key and attach it to the bird or were the memory sticks preloaded.
--
standard disclaimers apply. | |
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|  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
·T-Mobile US
| Re: time parameters also, what is the reliability of this? Dropped packets? Snooping? QoS?
Carrier Pigeon may be useful for large person-to-person single file transfers, but I highly doubt it could be reliable enough for business use. Moreover, what are the costs of food and cleanup? Those should be factored in. Additionally, the smaller the packet (ie email), the less reliable this method becomes.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | Re: time parameters said by tiger72:also, what is the reliability of this? Dropped packets? Snooping? QoS? Carrier Pigeon may be useful for large person-to-person single file transfers, but I highly doubt it could be reliable enough for business use. Moreover, what are the costs of food and cleanup? Those should be factored in. Additionally, the smaller the packet (ie email), the less reliable this method becomes. Just use RAID6 logic. Split the data to 4 or so flash sticks and give 4 or so birds the data. You can loose 2 birds without data loss. | |
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| | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| Re: time parameters That's probably acceptable on large files (4-16GB), but what about smaller files? And more importantly for businesses, what about distributing smaller files (10-100mb) to thousands of users?
What do you do with inactive bird-width? And is this bird-width dedicated, or is it shared with the entire community?
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | You realize.... said by tiger72:What do you do with inactive bird-width? And is this bird-width dedicated, or is it shared with the entire community? You realize this is a legacy system, and this has probably already been addressed. Probably has its own RFCs and other protocols.
--
standard disclaimers apply. | |
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| | | | | |
Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| One drawback "The next step is clearly affixing some kind of rocket technology to the birds" Brilliant idea and by the time the file arrives at the destination it'll come complete with a freshly roasted bird!
Dunno what rocket exhaust will do to the USB key though 
NefCanuck | |
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| | I wonder .. what would happen if they gave the birds some red bull? | |
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| | Copyrighted content SO how are the MPAA and RIAA going to monitor this?
Big nets? Shotguns? | |
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| | | Re: Copyrighted content Same way they target P2P (Pigeon2Person), duh....  | |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Flawed For a real test the pidgeon should have to carry 600,000 peices of paper filled with text -- isn't that about 300 MB (depending?) | |
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 exocet_cmYou delete it, I'll find itPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Transatlantic? What about transatlantic crossings? Carrier shark? | |
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|  RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | Re: Transatlantic? said by exocet_cm:What about transatlantic crossings? Carrier shark? No. Instead of using RFC1149 (»www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html) use RFC2549 (»www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html). This involves using a VPN gateway for the transatlantic leg and passing the message to a second pigeon just prior to the gateway (ie: Bird 1 flies to the gateway and passes the message to Bird 2 who traverses the VPN and then goes the rest of the way after exiting at the far end). Think Pony Express or a Relay Race for the hand off. | |
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| | exocet_cmYou delete it, I'll find itPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Re: Transatlantic? said by RARPSL:said by exocet_cm:What about transatlantic crossings? Carrier shark? No. Instead of using RFC1149 (» www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html) use RFC2549 (» www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html). This involves using a VPN gateway for the transatlantic leg and passing the message to a second pigeon just prior to the gateway (ie: Bird 1 flies to the gateway and passes the message to Bird 2 who traverses the VPN and then goes the rest of the way after exiting at the far end). Think Pony Express or a Relay Race for the hand off. Outstanding!
--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Publilius Syrus
Ma blog: »www.johndball.com | |
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| | | RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | Re: Transatlantic? said by exocet_cm:said by RARPSL:said by exocet_cm:What about transatlantic crossings? Carrier shark? No. Instead of using RFC1149 (» www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html) use RFC2549 (» www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html). This involves using a VPN gateway for the transatlantic leg and passing the message to a second pigeon just prior to the gateway (ie: Bird 1 flies to the gateway and passes the message to Bird 2 who traverses the VPN and then goes the rest of the way after exiting at the far end). Think Pony Express or a Relay Race for the hand off. Outstanding! The logistics of the 2nd leg is similar to that in pigeon races. You ship the birds to the starting location and then release them to return home. In this case you ship the pigeons to one of the airports and then ship them back with the message (and then release them to do the delivery). | |
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 SlavaPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-04
Fair Lawn, NJ | Good thing it wasn't a NYC pigeon Might have never made it to its destination. | |
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| | | Re: Good thing it wasn't a NYC pigeon true lol | |
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|  statestress magnetPremium,Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory
kudos:6 | So that's what network congestion would look like, if you could see it.  | |
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| | decxPremium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC | Re: Good thing it wasn't a NYC pigeon I'd hate to imagine what packet collisions would look like. | |
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|  Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | I bet the data drops there are pretty bad
Blake | |
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| |  phxmarkWhat Country Are We Living In?
join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ | Re: Good thing it wasn't a NYC pigeon What about the data dumps??? | |
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| |  cost of service
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| | Old Story They release this Carrier pigeon story over and over again, simply insert a new ISP
With smaller and lighter hd storage, this is always going to be possible. This is definitely non news. | |
|
 Duramax08A Challenger AppearsPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | Any in US got shitty internet? Do the same and post results. | |
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 jslikThat just happenedPremium
join:2006-03-17 | Pigeon or Swallow? Yes, but what is the air speed of a laden pigeon as opposed to a laden (African or European) swallow?
--
If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them? | |
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| |
Test99Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
kudos:1
1 edit | Carriers Unmasked Finally it becomes clear why telephone companies are called "carriers". Little did we know there is this vast network of carrier pigeons operating behind the scenes.
No wonder the price of grain is going up. Imagine how much grain it must take to support Youtube! | |
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|  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: Carriers Unmasked YouTube HD feels like it is delivered by carrier pigeon! | |
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| | Ping Time Apparently the ping times are too long for useful VOIP service.
If Al Gore implements an information superhighway on this basis, you will have to wash your car twice a day. | |
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| | | Re: Ping Time Yep. Carrier Pigeon = High Bandwidth + High Latency. Broadband = lower bandwidth + low latency. | |
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| | |
| | | | | Re: Ping Time In my defense, networking is how I earn a living. But yeah, I'm a nerd. I have a first edition of the Tannenbaum book mentioned earlier too. I LOL'd when I first read that quote years ago. Of course, we didn't know what LOL was then... It stuck with me though. | |
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| | Pigeon Packet burst? So this would be a Pigeon network "packet burst" then right?
 | |
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| Test99Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: Pigeon Packet burst? Right. The window size must be quite large to let all those pigeons out at once.
Possible color coding:
White - an ACK pigeon
Black - a NACK pigeon
Gray - a data pigeon | |
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| | | said by axiomatic:So this would be a Pigeon network "packet burst" then right? Oh darn, I thought that'd be a picture of a pigeon taken out by a shotgun. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Callcentric
| Re: Pigeon Packet burst? said by tmh :said by axiomatic:So this would be a Pigeon network "packet burst" then right? Oh darn, I thought that'd be a picture of a pigeon taken out by a shotgun. No that would be packet loss. Making this system no good for Voip Calls. | |
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| Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
1 edit | 
PACKET LOSS |
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|
 SSX4lifeHello WorldPremium
join:2004-02-13
kudos:2 | Pirate pigeons? so does that mean if a pigeon transfers a 64gb flash key with "arrrrrrgh" pirated material that it's a "pirate pigeon"?
lol | |
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| phxmarkWhat Country Are We Living In?
join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ | Re: Pirate pigeons? Arrrrr maitey. | |
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| | Carrier Pigeons Them pigeons are faster than Charter Cable in Dane County, Wi that's for sure! | |
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