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Carriers Intent On Sucking All Value Out Of Femtocells
AT&T not sure you deserve that free, congestion-easing Microcell, sorry.
by Karl Bode Thursday 26-Aug-2010 tags: business · wireless · hardware · alternatives · networking · consumers
We've repeatedly noted that femtocells (which allow you to route mobile calls over your broadband connection) would probably take off if carriers stopped sucking all the value out of them. Carriers like Verizon seem intent on making users over pay for the hardware on top of monthly fees, in addition to having usage eat away at user minutes. Consumers correctly observe that this is ridiculous, since they're paying extra money to reduce strain on local carrier towers, while using their own bandwidth to fuel the devices.

Sprint for one kind of gets it, and is giving away their new EVDO-capable Airave femtocells to anybody who calls in to complain about shoddy indoor cell coverage. In contrast, AT&T seems confused with the recent launch of their Microcell femtocell device, giving away the unit to some users but not others -- with no discernible way to determine if you're worthy of their free femto blessings. Worse perhaps, the Consumerist notes that some users are being promised a free Microcell, only to have AT&T turn around and change their mind:

I asked about a Microcell, but informed him that I shouldn't have to pay to make up for AT&T's poor coverage in my area. Larry agreed that the MicroCell would be a great idea for getting me coverage in my home and said he would have to get approval from a superior, but that it shouldn't be a problem at all. This conversation occurred end of business day on a Friday, and Larry informed me he would follow up on Monday confirming that my MicroCell would be coming at no charge.

The user got a call back a few days later to be told that even though there were Microcells in stock, he couldn't get a free one because managers wouldn't approve it. He did get a $50 credit, but that obviously didn't help his coverage problem. Of course given some of the activation and glitches users at the AT&T forums continue to experience, it's not clear if getting one (for free or paid) would cure his coverage problems anyway.

At the very least, femtos should be used as a customer retention and added value proposition. There's a world of innovation and value that's possible here too, were companies like AT&T interested. What about a Fon-esque mesh network of femtocell-loaded home gateways tied to AT&T's 20,000 strong hotspot network (AT&T would have to upgrade to FTTH, of course)? Instead, they're being used to milk consumers in already-troubled coverage areas even further, which is par for the mega-carrier executive mindset, and of course doesn't win AT&T any new consumer friends.

Update: Walt Mossberg at the Wall Street Journal today also explores how AT&T's Microcell works best in total dead zones, but gets flummoxed if you're in a "sorta kinda" coverage area.

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Boricua65
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacto Sh*tty

Total nonsense

It doesn't make economical sense for me, a VZW user, to get a femtocell and still PAY for my minutes and the device as well. In reading here a few months back what VZW was doing, I decided it's in not EVEN worth it .
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben
RokHed

join:2000-09-09
Pennsville, NJ

Re: Total nonsense

Got my free Airave on the way. I think you hafta be a premier customer in low signal area. My curve dosnt have wifi they may have looked at that too.
Rock on sprint

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA

Re: Total nonsense

Would not give me on spending limit account

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA
If you have a spending limit you won't get one even if you are premier
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Total nonsense

you have to know who to talk to at Sprint to get the device for free.

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA

Re: Total nonsense

They were going to give me one and he set it all up and my spending limit stop it from going through
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

Re: Total nonsense

like i said; you need to know who to talk to. Rentions (the ACTUAL Customer Service Dept) can over ride that system. They're the only ones that can do things of that sort; and give items away free without issues. They'll even bill new phones to your phone bills. I've been there and done that with Sprint. They're the only department that knows what to do.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA

Re: Total nonsense

That's who I talked to retentions so I am fed up with sprint
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Total nonsense

Didnt' talk to the right rep that would do it then. Just keep trying. Tell them you know they can do it. And ask to speak to a Supervisor.

You can also email Sprint and their CEO.

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA

Re: Total nonsense

No I'm done back to vzw

banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
I agree. Charging a monthly fee for a microcell that consumes plan minutes anyway is right up there with AT&T charging a monthly fee for tethering on the iPhone and then subjecting said phone to a monthly bandwidth cap. That is to say, completely ridiculous.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent

hootabius

join:2009-02-12
I can see having to use your regular minutes on a femtocell, since its really being used as something to get cell coverage to customers homes that can't get it by traditional means. But as the article points out, to charge a monthly fee for it is insane.

Bottom line: cell companies - you can't have it both ways. You can't charge for the equipment that is reducing the strain on your network for you and allowing you to keep customers that would otherwise go elsewhere. If you must charge for it, at least have the decency to let people use it as much as they want.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Total nonsense

said by hootabius:

I can see having to use your regular minutes on a femtocell,
I don't. They're charging you for doing nothing. Of course that's the way most Corporations would love it. Charge you and provide nothing in return.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
navalpatel

join:2003-07-28
Lubbock, TX

Re: Total nonsense

At some point, the wireless telco has to the deal with the data being transferred from the customer's data connection and relay it wherever it needs to be. That's doing something. Yes, I don't believe it justifies the expense burdened by the customer (the minutes and/or monthly fee), but the company is doing something - albeit very little.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US

Re: Total nonsense

said by navalpatel:

At some point, the wireless telco has to the deal with the data being transferred from the customer's data connection and relay it wherever it needs to be. That's doing something. Yes, I don't believe it justifies the expense burdened by the customer (the minutes and/or monthly fee), but the company is doing something - albeit very little.
Yeah, the cost is the carrier's Internet connection (essentially free to at&t, if they're doing it right), the hardware necessary to interface the femtocells with the network, and the cost of terminating/originating the minutes used. (about a tenth of a cent a minute, half that to some destinations, back when they were called Cingular)

So yeah, they're definitely doing something, but it isn't much, certainly not compared with what they save by not having to fix their network and still getting a person's business.

A friend of mine has been calling them up every couple of weeks since at&t released their femtocell product trying to get one for free. He says if he doesn't have any luck getting one in the next couple of months, he's going to switch to T-Mobile or Verizon. I guess if at&t doesn't want to give away a free microcell to keep $300 a month coming in the door, that's their prerogative. Not very bright, however.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Millenicom

1 edit

Dollars per seat.

I ate at a privately owned restaurant on a regular basis. Each day the owner offered one special. One day I asked him why he did not offer a greater selection of specials to attract more customers. His answer was that the special was a loss leader. His objective was to average a certain revenue per guest served each day. He expected most customers to order off the regular menu with only a few taking advantage of the special. That would be the only way he could meet his revenue objective per guest each day. It appears that the wireless carriers are doing the same thing. It is the old shell game. When voice revenue declined wireless carriers came up with mandatory data plans in order to prop up revenue and gouge customers. Cutting prices for those customers with Femtocells will not help wireless carriers meet their revenue objectives. The wireless carriers should actually be paying the customer or the customers ISP for use of their broadband connection.
travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

1 edit

Re: Dollars per seat.

Exactly correct. This has zero to do with cost to the carrier or load shedding or anything else. The prime directive is to charge for value. If you don't have cell coverage in your house and that's important to you, then you get to pay more than someone who doesn't care.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

1 edit

Re: Dollars per seat.

Well they way I'd look at it is: My customer is having a problem with our service. Rather then lose them as a customer, why not provide this alternative to keep them happy and retain their business.

Then again, I don't work for Verizon or AT&T who apparently think that's a really dumb idea. I think they believe that the customer shouldn't be allowed to leave just because they can't get decent service... they should have to pay anyway.

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

Re: Dollars per seat.

said by KrK:

Well they way I'd look at it is: My customer is having a problem with our service. Rather then lose them as a customer, why not provide this alternative to keep them happy and retain their business.
The problem is that the carriers have all these highly paid MBAs who have run the numbers and concluded for every customer like you that might leave, they will make 10X or 100X in revenue from customers who won't leave, or who are willing to pay a premium for use of the femtocell.
cdbma

join:2003-01-19
Bolton, MA

I tried

8 years with crappy coverage at my house (and most of my town, for that matter). I threatened to move to VZW and they didn't even blink. I moved and all I got was a survey email. No "we want you back" calls, nothing. All I asked for was a free MicroCell that would end up generating much more than its cost in added usage of the three phones in the family. Fail.
FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

Cold Day In Hell

It would be a cold day in hell before I subscribe to crappy phone service just to pay for the privilege of routing my calls through my own home network just to be charged more.

Mr Anon

@k12.il.us

I need these!

I need these in enterprise editions, that can multiple behind a single IP that I can bury in a building even if it can't get a GPS lock and that do 3G.

I have buildings with metal sheets between the inside and the outside, plumbing and wiring overhead as well as air and we get terrible signals. Its a tad bit worse than nextel but cheaper.

rogunit
Uhhh, Sir?
Premium
join:1999-09-18
Phoenix, AZ

I wonder...

How much bandwidth would a femtocell suck from my 7 meg DSL line? I'm guessing they wouldn't use much...?
pusta

join:2010-08-23
Dallas, TX

Re: I wonder...

said by rogunit:

How much bandwidth would a femtocell suck from my 7 meg DSL line? I'm guessing they wouldn't use much...?
According to the Sprint Airave manual, voice takes only 40kbps each way. Data CAN consume up to 3mbps down and 1.5 up

cruz1

@sbcglobal.net

Re: I wonder...

Yeah I was kinda annoyed that they say it used 40 kbit/sec, however, I heard that the voice encoding rate was something ridiculously low to the TOWERS like 4.8 kbit/sec. Why bulk it up for MY connection?! Also your connection at home / router HAS to have QoS or some kind of manual priority based setting or the calls can drop or become jittery.

rogunit
Uhhh, Sir?
Premium
join:1999-09-18
Phoenix, AZ
That wouldn't be bad at all. Low for voice, but if I'm d/l'ing something to the phone I'd want the faster speed. Think I'll give them a call. Thanks!

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Lucky Me

Luckily for me I live near a water tower that has T-Mobile, Sprint and AT&T on it. For some reason, VZW deigned not to go there and they have a terrible signal at my home. My sister, who uses VZW, has to stand on the front lawn to get a signal. I would be a great candidate for a VZW femtocell if I was crazy enough to subscribe to them.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

CCNnorthcali

join:2004-03-07
Santa Rosa, CA

At least they have Femtocells...

T-Mobile was one of the first to embrace UMA, but now that's pretty much only on the BlackBerry platform. I wish I had the option to get a femtocell from T-Mobile so I could use my Nexus One in my house...

Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Re: At least they have Femtocells...

said by CCNnorthcali:

T-Mobile was one of the first to embrace UMA, but now that's pretty much only on the BlackBerry platform. I wish I had the option to get a femtocell from T-Mobile so I could use my Nexus One in my house...
I loved that solution, not tied to any femtocell, just use wifi. It's awesome for roaming.
--
Semper Fi
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
UMA is on other phones too. its just far and few between.

Hookem99
Deep In The Heart

join:2007-07-18
Pflugerville, TX
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ViaTalk

MicroCells are worthless!

Due to ongoing service issues in my area, I was able to get a MicroCell for no cost at my AT&T store. I am currently on my third one, and service is actually WORSE than without it.

I would have told them to keep it the last time I exchanged it, but my wife swears it helps, if only a little.

My service has been SO bad over the last month, that a AT&T super notated my account to waive all ETF's if they cannot get it fixed by Sept. 1st. I doubt that she actually did it, but we'll see.
--
Women think they are clever just because they can fake an orgasm for a relationship, whats the big deal a man can fake a whole relationship for an orgasm!!!!
zolcos

join:2010-05-19
Houghton, MI

VoIP

Regardless of "value", the availability of femtocell devices shows that the carriers are willing to let you use their services by connecting to them over the Internet via your own bandwidth. They are effectively getting into the home VoIP business.
Why not have the option to skip the whole wireless crapfest and offer a purely software-based option a la Skype? Maybe even make versions that run on smartphones over a wi-fi connection to your home network. It would be more reliable in areas with crappy coverage, and from a technical point of view there is no difference at all on their end -- the software would function in the same way as the software that runs on the femtocell devices.

They won't do it because the comparison to similar services would highlight the absurdity of their pricing models. Although, it would seem to be only a matter of time before some reverse-engineers these devices and makes an equivalent that runs on PC.
Crainial

join:2001-11-09
Beloit, WI

Re: VoIP

T-Mobile has it in UMA on certain phones. My old BB 8520 Curve had it, worked great, and the calls over UMA didn't count against my minutes.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·MSN
·Brand X Internet
·DSL EXTREME

1 edit

Sprint does get it.

I moved to my new apt. and found that my cell coverage sucked, so I called Sprint and they IMMEDIATELY offered me an Airave-free. It came in 4 days. I plugged it in and it didn't work, so after two days I called Sprint and discovered they have a special dept. that just deals with Airaves. I called them, they checked their records and configured it on the spot-then apologized that they had not shipped the unit pre-configured in the first place. Ten minutes later it was working.

It works great. Five bars on all my phones while in the house, battery life is way up (because my cell phones are putting out the minimum power while at home). Call quality is great-and the only way you can tell you are using the Airave is two short beeps at the beginning of the call.

The only glitch (minor) is that it takes about ten minutes to come back online if it loses power, likely because it needs a solid GPS lock. The obvious fix is to put it on a UPS.

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.

join:2006-07-23

Details on Sprint...

I would like to add that Sprint will not only give you the device free of charge, but waive the monthly fee as well--sometimes they'll make you sign a contract, other times they won't.

They do, however, charge for unlimited minutes when using any of their femtocell devices (yours or anyone elses).

cruz1

@sbcglobal.net

Sprint AiRave was just ok ... pros / cons

I had a Sprint AiRave for a couple years and while it used to be great when I had somewhat decent coverage outside, it proved to be a nightmare when I moved to where there was barely 1bar of coverage in my backyard. In this situation, i only received 1 of 4 incoming calls in most areas of my home ... I don't know if the Airave's power settings are too low to go through my new walls or what, but I just couldn't take it anymore and had to switch carriers. Sucks because I had Sprint for about 9 years.

Keep in mind with any femtocell, your call reliability is dependent on the reliability and consistency of your home router, internet connection and the device itself instead of the high reliability T1's, etc that are used in the towers. Why would anyone want to pay extra for this reduced reliability? Sprint is the only carrier that kind of gets it with femtocells though...

It's also kind of annoying that it has to pick up a STRONG GPS signal for about 45 minutes after every power loss, etc AND even though my Sprint data card was NOT on the authorized access list on the device (because why pay sprint for using MY DSL!!!), my data card would frequently drop when near the AirRave.
sheureka

join:2002-09-28
Bisbee, AZ

Re: Sprint AiRave was just ok ... pros / cons

The new one that came out last week is light years better than the old one. - sheureka
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
if you read the details about them; their service signal was limited and wasn't very much. maybe about the size of a medium sized 1 floor apartment at most.

tlylework

@sbcglobal.net

Sprint

After reading this article I was thinking to myself, "self, you have a crappy signal in the house and can rarely get a good signal unless you stand in the bathroom on the far end of the house". Made my wife call sprint and they are sending us a Airave ASAP, the poetic justic of it all is the spring lady on the other end of the line kept telling my wife I can't hear you!! She is like no kidding, that is why I am calling you.

Bravo for sprint for helping keep customers happy!
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
Schaumburg, IL

Att gives free femtocells

if you order bundles. Then it reduces to $50 or $0.
JimF
Premium
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA

Skype WiFi

Get a Skype WiFi phone. The IPEVO S0-20 looks good.

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