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Carriers Stand To Mess Android Up Nicely
Bloatware, crippled phones, restricting user choice control...
Engadget offers a column exploring whether the carriers will do their best to degrade the android experience by crippling handsets, removing features, and filling the devices with bloatware -- something both AT&T and Verizon seem eager to do to make an extra buck. While such things are not uncommon to other platforms, other platforms didn't enter the sector with the same promises and potential of "openness." Author Michael Gartenberg notes that there's two things that need to happen if this trend is to be reversed:
quote:
First, users need to demonstrate -- loudly and with their wallets -- that these practices are not acceptable. Second, Google must take a stand for the end user and insist that parts of Android must be included on every device in order to bear the Google name -- and that all carrier installed apps and services are easily and freely able to be removed by users at their discretion.
It's not clear either of those things are going to happen. Especially the latter -- if Google wants Verizon to keep hyping Android to their 90+ million subscribers, they'll likely stay quiet and keep penning midnight network neutrality love letters to one another. Engadget's column mirrors one from Techcrunch late last week, in which author MG Siegler proclaims that "Android is as open as the clenched fist I’d like to punch the carriers with."
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skurfa4
join:2006-03-10
Yorktown, VA

skurfa4

Member

Sprint

'nuff said

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Sprint

said by skurfa4:

'nuff said
Sprint been berry berry good to me.

NV
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Re: Sprint

Except for the crapware they put on my phone. I don't want or need their TV, NASCAR, NFL, whatever apps, and I should be able to remove them. It's MY phone, and they're stealing my space on it.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Sprint

If they bother you that much root your Android device and remove them. I'm not entirely sure why an app that you never have to see should bother you but it's not like there aren't already solutions to this problem.....

Complaining about the space they use is silly. Most modern smartphones have gigabytes of storage. These apps only use a few megs. I'm not real worried about something that's using less than 1% of the space on my device.
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Re: Sprint

Most users have no idea how to root. And while I'm perfectly capable of rooting my phone, I don't really want to void the warranty, either. The point is, I shouldn't have to make that choice, as the iPhone demonstrates.

My Hero doesn't have that much internal memory to begin with, and I like to have a LOT of apps. I have had to uninstall apps several times because I was getting "low on memory" warnings, so every bit of space is pretty darned precious.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Sprint

They won't void your warranty for messing with the software. I've flashed the last five phones (both smart and dumb) I've owned and I've NEVER had Verizon or Motorola give me grief about it. For the most part they understand that the warranty is for the hardware.

Motorola in particular could care less. A friend of mine used to work in one of their service centers. Trust me when I say that it's a assembly line process and they don't have the time or inclination to fish through the software on your phone to see if you modified it. As long as the LDI (liquid damage indicators) aren't tripped and the phone isn't physically damaged they will honor your warranty.
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Re: Sprint

That's comforting. I guess I'll take the plunge and root it then.

Just on principle, though, I still think you should be able to remove those apps without rooting. Heck, I can even do that on Windows.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Sprint

I agree with you -- I'm just saying that it's pretty low on my list of grievances against the wireless industry.....
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

PittsPgh to puck0114

Premium Member

to puck0114
said by puck0114:

That's comforting. I guess I'll take the plunge and root it then.

Just on principle, though, I still think you should be able to remove those apps without rooting. Heck, I can even do that on Windows.
Try this out [APP] universalandroot (1-Click Root). It's a free app.

It worked on my Hero 2.1 CDMA no problem. Running Fresh UI 2.4.0

You can read about it here and has the link to d/l it.

»androidforums.com/droid- ··· oot.html

»forum.xda-developers.com ··· t=747598

EDIT: It's not in the Market. Get it through those forums.
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Re: Sprint

Nice. Rooted me in no time. Thanks!
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1 to Crookshanks

Premium Member

to Crookshanks
said by Crookshanks:

If they bother you that much root your Android device and remove them. I'm not entirely sure why an app that you never have to see should bother you but it's not like there aren't already solutions to this problem.....

Complaining about the space they use is silly. Most modern smartphones have gigabytes of storage. These apps only use a few megs. I'm not real worried about something that's using less than 1% of the space on my device.
At that point whatis the difference between Sprint and Vzw/ATT?

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail to puck0114

Premium Member

to puck0114
said by puck0114:

Except for the crapware they put on my phone. I don't want or need their TV, NASCAR, NFL, whatever apps, and I should be able to remove them. It's MY phone, and they're stealing my space on it.
No argument from me. I've been running cooked ROMs on my TP for so long, I forgot about how unpleasant the stock package was.

NV
Happydude32
Premium Member
join:2005-07-16

Happydude32 to puck0114

Premium Member

to puck0114
Boy was I pissed after I got my Evo and found out I couldn't remove the Facebook app, Friend Stream or any of the other social network crap that came preloaded on the phone. I use the NASCAR app, the Football app is ok, Sprint Navigation is my best friend, beats the shit out of Google Navigation and I like to check out Sprint TV, but that stupid Facebook has to go!

Is this a standard thing among all four carriers and Android that Facebook cannot be removed unless you root?
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

PittsPgh

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by Happydude32:

Boy was I pissed after I got my Evo and found out I couldn't remove the Facebook app, Friend Stream or any of the other social network crap that came preloaded on the phone. I use the NASCAR app, the Football app is ok, Sprint Navigation is my best friend, beats the shit out of Google Navigation and I like to check out Sprint TV, but that stupid Facebook has to go!

Is this a standard thing among all four carriers and Android that Facebook cannot be removed unless you root?
1 Root it
2 install Superuser
3 install Titanium Backup. free version or paid,(Worth it)
3 use the Uninstall feature
4 might as well do a back up

Happydude32
Premium Member
join:2005-07-16

Happydude32

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?


Is there are root available for the Evo running Froyo?
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

PittsPgh

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by Happydude32:

Is there are root available for the Evo running Froyo?
Rooting just gives you access to the system to be able to do things. That one click root in the other post will give you root access.

such as change the ROMs.
run programs that need system access. Like the 2 programs mentioned in my other post.
Happydude32
Premium Member
join:2005-07-16

Happydude32

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

Yes, I'm fully aware of what rooting is and does, but I was under the impression the Evo was not yet rootable if running 2.2.
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

PittsPgh

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by Happydude32:

Yes, I'm fully aware of what rooting is and does, but I was under the impression the Evo was not yet rootable if running 2.2.
Here you go. Didn't notice that the one click root didn't work on the EVO.

But they have it done for EVO 2.2

»forum.xda-developers.com ··· t=765496

SNT
Premium Member
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL

1 edit

SNT to PittsPgh

Premium Member

to PittsPgh
said by PittsPgh See Profile

such as change the ROMs.





Rooting does not allow this, you need a hacked bootloader which is different from just rooting.
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

PittsPgh

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by SNT:

said by PittsPgh See Profile

such as change the ROMs.





Rooting does not allow this, you need a hacked bootloader which is different from just rooting.
But rooting is the first step involved

SNT
Premium Member
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL

SNT

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by PittsPgh:

said by SNT:

said by PittsPgh See Profile

such as change the ROMs.





Rooting does not allow this, you need a hacked bootloader which is different from just rooting.
But rooting is the first step involved
But, just because you can root does not mean you can load a custom ROM or kernel. See Droid X.
PittsPgh
Premium Member
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

PittsPgh

Premium Member

Re: What about Facebook?

said by SNT:

But, just because you can root does not mean you can load a custom ROM or kernel. See Droid X.
Found it

»www.droid-life.com/2010/ ··· ns-here/

Note 1* – YOU HAVE TO BE RUNNING THE LEAKED 2.2

Not exactly a custom ROM, just the bloatware removed from what I'm reading. That's a start.

»www.droidxforums.com/for ··· xed.html

Seems to be a couple more out there and some themes.

»www.droidxforums.com/for ··· mes.html

edit:
»www.droid-life.com/2010/ ··· 1-click/
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to skurfa4

Member

to skurfa4
said by skurfa4:

'nuff said
Not available in my area. Nuff said.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Mostly a Non-Issue Already

Second, Google must take a stand for the end user and insist that parts of Android must be included on every device in order to bear the Google name
I don't believe a lot of Android powered phones bear the Google name...precisely for this reason.
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Re: Mostly a Non-Issue Already

Didn't they not let AT&T put "with Google" on one of their phones because they defaulted to search on Yahoo or something?

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol to openbox9

Premium Member

to openbox9
said by openbox9:

Second, Google must take a stand for the end user and insist that parts of Android must be included on every device in order to bear the Google name
I don't believe a lot of Android powered phones bear the Google name...precisely for this reason.
And if it gets more serious google bans the device from using the market. They did so with the android tablet k-mart released which turned out to be garbage.
GraysonPeddi
Grayson Peddie
join:2010-06-28
Tallahassee, FL

GraysonPeddi

Member

Nice...

If I want Android, I'll just buy an unlocked phone for $600, sign up for T-Mobile's Even More Plus Data Plan, and be done with it. But nah, I don't like the current smartphone market and I don't plan to go with Android.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Nice...

said by GraysonPeddi:

But nah, I don't like the current smartphone market and I don't plan to go with Android.
There's so much modded firmware available for the WinMo phones, that they've been decent to use.

Unfortunately, MS learned that smartphone users were finding functionality in their WM6.5 handsets. Phone 7 is MS's response to the unintended positive user experiences.

So it looks like Android is the last place left for me to go. I'm just waiting for it to mature a while longer. It might help if the Linux upstream kernel developers would knock off their obsessive nitpicking over Android's Driver Hook Implementations.

NV
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

Re: Nice...

said by Noah Vail:

said by GraysonPeddi:

But nah, I don't like the current smartphone market and I don't plan to go with Android.
There's so much modded firmware available for the WinMo phones, that they've been decent to use.

Unfortunately, MS learned that smartphone users were finding functionality in their WM6.5 handsets. Phone 7 is MS's response to the unintended positive user experiences.

So it looks like Android is the last place left for me to go. I'm just waiting for it to mature a while longer. It might help if the Linux upstream kernel developers would knock off their obsessive nitpicking over Android's Driver Hook Implementations.

NV
I'll wait to pass judgment on Phone 7. No one can say for certain, well ok if you used the leaked ROMs and emulator, but it's not "officially" out. But, I think Phone 7 is the response to the most popular complain of its UI design. Even though it has a great development platform and imho fairly stable OS, people will label it "sucks" because it doesn't have pretty window transitions and big buttons. WM was never intended to be for the average user anyways. That is where the iPhone filled that niche. Though, people try to pass off the iPhone as a power user device, and it isn't. It's simply a mobile device that doesn't come with a lot of customizable options and attempts to protect the user from themselves (which the users seem to be perfectly ok with because they keep buying the new version).

Though, for being an "open platform", my one complaint is that Google never made it easy for a power user, like my self, to install custom kernels.. Or even make it easy to upgrade to the next version. I mean even Ubuntu has a tool to upgrade to the next major release, why can't Google have created it?

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Nice...

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

people will label it "sucks" because it doesn't have pretty window transitions and big buttons.
People have already labeled it sucks because MS removed core functionality and took the Apple path of shackling it's users to the Company Store.

Phone 7 is primarily about limiting user behavior to the choices that MS pre-decides.

NV
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

Re: Nice...

said by Noah Vail:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

people will label it "sucks" because it doesn't have pretty window transitions and big buttons.
People have already labeled it sucks because MS removed core functionality and took the Apple path of shackling it's users to the Company Store.

Phone 7 is primarily about limiting user behavior to the choices that MS pre-decides.

NV
Again, the simple fact that you are bashing a platform before it is out is showing your bias, which a bias only weakens your argument.

I examined the engadget review here: »www.engadget.com/2010/03 ··· e-guide/

The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is not able to side load apps, which is TBD at this point (I mean, there has to be a way to load apps you are developing on your device to test). And the way they are handling multi-tasking, which can change before it hits carriers.

Even though Microsoft is forcing its users to use an app store in 7, I don't think they will arbitrarily deny apps because of the phase of the moon.

In fact your statement of limiting user behavior to what MS wants is fallacious, because in the review they claim that:
"People hub: Pulls in contacts from Gmail, Exchange, Facebook, Twitter, Windows Live and others, aggregating contact information, status updates, and contact images into a single view (or views, really)."
If Microsoft truly wanted to control users, then they would have support for WL out of the box.

I think at the end of the day if we can't agree on anything - then I think it can be said that iPhone is the worse of the platforms because the lack of customizations and it's app store policy that seems to be based on random luck and not actual rules.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Nice...

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

Again, the simple fact that you are bashing a platform before it is out is showing your bias, which a bias only weakens your argument.
A somewhat more accurate way of phrasing that is:
I understand what features are irreplaceable to me.

You, however, do not.

That doesn't so much as weaken your argument, as it renders it meaningless. If your assertion had any merit at all, I wouldn't have to run non-OEM firmware.

Do you know why I run non-OEM firmware? It's to restore features, and add functionality that Sprint+MS felt I could do without.

In 20+ years of building tool sets, as part of providing IT services; I've learned that when a vendor decides that I can live without an irreplaceable feature, they're invariably wrong.

I live IT 60 hours/week. It gives me a pretty good understanding of what works for me.

And as baffling as this may seem to you: You don't.

No, truly. You haven't a clue what works for me. I think it has something to do with you only presuming your understanding.

I've reviewed the Phone 7 feature offerings in detail. There are at least 4 major changes from WinMo 6 that are - each - an unalterable deal-breaker.

Not only isn't there a suitable replacement ability, the missing features are BY DESIGN, set out to insure that I no longer have those abilities.

So let's recap.
Microsoft takes away stuff I need. They do it with the openly expressed purpose of insuring that I no longer have access to those functionalities.

In response, you have some vague idea that I'll find some new feature so life changing; that I'll forget all about losing important productivity.

I recommended you chuck that particular set of presumptions; and start afresh. They aren't serving you well.

NV

CurGeorge8
join:2005-05-02
South Park, PA

CurGeorge8 to k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

to k1ll3rdr4g0n
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:


....Though, for being an "open platform", my one complaint is that Google never made it easy for a power user, like my self, to install custom kernels.. Or even make it easy to upgrade to the next version. I mean even Ubuntu has a tool to upgrade to the next major release, why can't Google have created it?
I would speculate that this is where carrier pressure stepped in and ruined the day. As 'open' as Verizon and sprint say that they are, they still desire at least some control of the end users total experience. They chalk it up to "resource protection" to prevent people from "abusing" their wireless networks. But, as we've seen (especially with Fascinate on VZW, it uses Bing as its default search engine), this is just lip service that really just allows them to push their "preferred partners" with the only benefit being increased revenue.
GraysonPeddi
Grayson Peddie
join:2010-06-28
Tallahassee, FL
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter PoE
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC

GraysonPeddi to Noah Vail

Member

to Noah Vail
I'm a C# developer, so having Silverlight (application development) and XNA Framework (game development) is nice, but with Windows Phone 7, it's way too much of a departure from Windows Mobile 6.5: too restrictive for me.

This is why I'm going to be getting a Windows 7 tablet next year and live with that (I can live with having a tablet slip into a netbook-sized backpack and not be able to slip it in my front pocket).
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

Crookshanks

Member

what's the big deal with pre-installed apps?

As long as they don't compel you to use them I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

My Droid-X came with VZ Navigator, V CAST and a host of other useless Verizon apps that aren't easily (without rooting) uninstalled. So what? The phone doesn't force me to use those apps. It doesn't force me to keep an icon for them on my desktops. The amount of space used by them is negligible.

There's a lot that the wireless industry does that ticks me off but the practice of pre-installing their own apps rates rather low on my list of concerns.

••••••••

boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

boogi man

Member

t-mo

no crap from t-mo that can't be taken off can get unsigned apps out of the box. just wish I'd not gone with a motoblur phone....

which just proves the point it's not just the carriers that are jackin with the phones it's the hardware folks too.

•••••••••••••••••••

SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

SLD

Premium Member

Google?

Google already took a stand, remember? And it wasn't for the end-user...LOL! Keep dreaming!
UncleDirtNap
join:2006-08-26
Pittsburgh, PA

UncleDirtNap

Member

Killing the goose that laid the golden egg...

With the move to capped usage and stunts like this I see a return to a basic cell phone in my not to distant future... lived without a Droid or smartphone for 46 years, won't be any trouble doing it again.

•••••

EvelKub
Kitty is crazy
Premium Member
join:2002-03-17
Mesa, AZ

EvelKub

Premium Member

Verizon Feedback Page

Here is the link to provide your feedback to Verizon.
Keep in mind that being rude is not going to get what you want. Be grown up and explain what you want and do not want, and be realistic in that request.

»www.verizonwireless.com/ ··· mail.jsp

TCub
Premium Member
join:2008-09-03
Olmsted Falls, OH

TCub

Premium Member

Come on...

F**k's sake.. I commented on this article last night when this shit hit the fan...

If you want a completely stock Android experience.. get it Android FROM GOOGLE.

Either you get it from Google or the OEM get's it from Google. You get it from Google, you do what you want with it. You get it from an OEM, they do what they want with it. It's called open source...

As for this whole "OMGZERS BINGZ IZ ON FAZINATE!" WHO THE F**K CARES?

If you like Bing or don't have an issue with it, like myself, you'll gladly purchase a Samsung Fascinate, like myself.

Engadget is heading down the tubes in terms of quality tech writing.. stop this political BS...

•••••

Trimline
Premium Member
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL

Trimline

Premium Member

Just buy a Nokia E63 and forget about it...

Really folks, just buy a Nokia E63 and forget about it... it's got everything and you are in the driver's seat. Why be so tormented.

•••