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Charter Announces 60Mbps Internet Service
To debut in St. Louis for $139.99 a month...

Many people were thinking that this was the week that struggling Charter Communications would file for bankruptcy protection. Instead, the company has announced they'll be offering 60Mbps/5Mbps service in the St. Louis area, for somewhere around $139.99 ($129.99 bundled). The 60Mbps number was a very particular marketing choice, given it's 10Mbps faster than both Comcast and Verizon's fastest offerings.

However, with Charter's heavy debt load, it will be unlikely the faster speed gets deployed to a significant number of areas any time soon. The faster DOCSIS 3.0 tier will be used largely as a marketing weapon to fend off Verizon FiOS, and to project the image that the struggling cable operator isn't falling behind. Charter does say they'll be bumping their fastest tier in many markets from 16Mbps to 20Mbps. Customers in our Charter forum chime in on the new offering.
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houkouonchi
join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA

houkouonchi

Member

5 meg up? LAME!

Ok, 60 meg down is nice, but 5 up? Man that is a disappointment!

BigPete82
@qwest.net

BigPete82

Anon

Re: 5 meg up? LAME!

said by houkouonchi:

Ok, 60 meg down is nice, but 5 up? Man that is a disappointment!
Yeah no kidding... I'd take 50/20 over 60/5 any day!
cahiatt
Premium Member
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

cahiatt

Premium Member

Re: 5 meg up? LAME!

I'd like to see how they pull it off. They just left my office two hours ago after installing an 8x2 CBN line. We're getting 7.2 meg down and a whopping 300k up....

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

Re: 5 meg up? LAME!

That almost sounds like an Ethernet duplex mismatch.
cahiatt
Premium Member
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

cahiatt

Premium Member

Re: 5 meg up? LAME!

To give them some credit, they did reprovision the modem and now we are getting about 7.7 meg down and 1.9 meg up. Have seen the download drop to the 3 to 4 meg range but upload has been consistent so far.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: 5 meg up? LAME!

Make sure the bandwidth test machine has an optimized TCP RWIN/MTU. If the test machine is Windows, I've seen some not-so-minor speed test improvements when the TCP stack is tweaked.

I also would not test using wireless. As good as today's WiFi is, wires still have an edge.

However, based on your last comment, I don't recommend you do this. After they re-provisioned the modem it sounds like you are very close to achieving your package speeds. Tweaking won't buy you that much and you would have to do it to every desktop in your office. If you pay for 8 and you are getting 7.7, I think 300Kbps is within the protocol "overhead" range.

Regarding when it slows down, is this to all sites? Sometimes it really can be the site on the other end.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to houkouonchi

Premium Member

to houkouonchi
said by houkouonchi:

Ok, 60 meg down is nice, but 5 up? Man that is a disappointment!
Because they know that 60mb downstream will go largely unused as opposed to upload with ALWAYS will be used.
minimum should have been 10mbit up.
PelhamCHuser
join:2009-01-22
Pelham, AL

PelhamCHuser

Member

Charter is committing fraud at the moment in AL

They cannot even provide 1mb at night to the entire state of AL but continue to charge and not acknowledge a problem

For weeks

»only 3mb download on 16/2 plan Pelham,AL

Maybe they need to fix and provide current customers with actual reasonable service before they worry about this
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

T3

Cheaper than a T3 in the download category. Might as well call it fiber.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: T3

Actually is fiber. Fiber to the node.

pdjp
@optonline.net

pdjp

Anon

Charter Announces 60Mbps Internet Service

Yeah Right...

what
@rr.com

what

Anon

???

how is 5 Mbps up lame? I have somewhere in the 15Mbps down with only 768kbps up - sure I would like more - but most folks I know are on DSL with speeds around 384kbps up/down.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: ???

DOCSIS3 cable is capable of up to 107MBps up. ADSL2 can only offer 896kb up.

In the future DOCSIS can be expanded for gigabit speeds as well.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: ???

said by fifty nine:

DOCSIS3 cable is capable of up to 107MBps up. ADSL2 can only offer 896kb up.

In the future DOCSIS can be expanded for gigabit speeds as well.
ADSL2+ Annex M is good for 2.5Mbit, ADSL2 1.3Mbit.

DOCSIS isn't going to offer near 107Mbps per customer upstream for quite some time.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: ???

said by Ignite:

said by fifty nine:

DOCSIS3 cable is capable of up to 107MBps up. ADSL2 can only offer 896kb up.

In the future DOCSIS can be expanded for gigabit speeds as well.
ADSL2+ Annex M is good for 2.5Mbit, ADSL2 1.3Mbit.

DOCSIS isn't going to offer near 107Mbps per customer upstream for quite some time.
4 channel DOCSIS3 already can.

The cable companies probably won't deploy it yet because there's no real need for it for home users right now. In fact most home users would get by just fine with less than 512k.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

1 recommendation

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: ???

said by fifty nine:

4 channel DOCSIS3 already can.

The cable companies probably won't deploy it yet because there's no real need for it for home users right now. In fact most home users would get by just fine with less than 512k.
Every customer gets their own node, 4 ports of a CMTS card, and 25.6MHz of upstream spectrum @ 64QAM?

Note that I said 'per customer' not 'per MAC domain'. What the technology can do across what's probably 1000+ modems sharing the bandwidth is irrelevant as, unlike DSL, it's not a dedicated link between CPE and provider.

DOCSIS 3 upstreams won't exceed those levels until analogue is gone from cable networks and plant has loads of work done on it due to NTSC restricting subsplit sizes, upstream spectrum is 5 - 40MHz at best in North America, and not all of that usable due to noise.

Theory wise, sure, practically, not going to happen.

Also worth bearing in mind that the oft quoted '160Mbit downstream 120Mbit upstream' capabilities of 4 channel in both direction are not actually the case either. Real maximum downstream throughput with wind in sails and down hill will be around 152Mbit and upstream around 106Mbit.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
Can or Will.

Just because 4 channel DOCSIS can offer 107Mbps upstream doesn't mean that they will be selling it anytime soon.

Similarly - VDSL2 offers connections +50Mbps - I don't see AT&T pushing for it either.

With the economy with its tail between its legs - don't expect much - many will be dropping to a lower tier (or cancelling services). Companies will still make money - as lower tiered services are typically priced higher/kbps in order to make them appear less attractive for use.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo to fifty nine

MVM

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

4 channel DOCSIS3 already can.
Is there a single provider that has upstream bonding working yet?

Last time I looked only the Arris CMTS even claimed to support upstream bonding right now.
Cakk
join:2009-03-31
Chesterfield, MO

Cakk to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
Well it depends what they do.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207 to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

DOCSIS3 cable is capable of up to 107MBps up. ADSL2 can only offer 896kb up.

In the future DOCSIS can be expanded for gigabit speeds as well.
I have "last mile" fiber-to-the-premises. My modem, wait, I don't have a modem. Should I use my GPON ONT and router to call out my upload capabilities? I'm already at the gigabit speeds with the current technology and work towards next generation and hybrid PON's capable of reaching 10 gigabit speeds are already being tested.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 edit

fifty nine

Member

Re: ???

If it's anything you won't see anytime soon is gigabit to the home in the US.

You see it in Europe and Asia but as we know we are pretty much way behind them in broadband.

FiOS is only in a "one upmanship" game with Cable. They're not going to go gigabit unless the cablecos get near that, and they won't.

Besides, I have a few hundred servers that I manage and the total bandwidth they use (upload) barely crosses 250MBps. Most times the firewall is loafing around 130MBps. We do have 2GBps connectivity.

So it is quite unlikely that there's even a real need for gigabit connectivity to the home right now.
bullet087
join:2006-05-17

bullet087 to what

Member

to what
I got 10mbit down and 10mbit up with roadrunner. So to me, 60mbit down and only 5mbit up is really lame.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to what

Member

to what
Because everyone knows that you can't upload pictures to the grandparents on 5Mbps.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: ???

The biggest problem is trying find a site that will upload your photos and videos for you to share that can even take advantage of a 2 Mbit upload.

Who can blame these sites? Our ISP's have generally been keeping our upload transfer rates at such a pathetically low level, there was no need to provide higher upload speeds from a practical standpoint. Hopefully, with the continual increase in upload speeds, we will start to see more sites offering much better performance when uploading files.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: ???

said by jmn1207:

The biggest problem is trying find a site that will upload your photos and videos for you to share that can even take advantage of a 2 Mbit upload.

The vast majority of sites on the internet cant handle more than 10Mbps upload OR download. Heck, a good portion of sites are still served by T1's these days.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: ???

said by wifi4milez:

The vast majority of sites on the internet cant handle more than 10Mbps upload OR download. Heck, a good portion of sites are still served by T1's these days.
So why do we have datacentres with 100Mbit+ ports connecting to multi-gigabit switches when the vast majority of sites are still on 10Mbps?

Seriously are the majority of internet sites hosted on regular ethernet or lower bandwidth? How many sites sit off T1s?

We're talking actual websites, etc, right? Even my cheapy hosted site for a few bucks a month achieves over 10Mbit in both directions...

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: ???

said by Ignite:
said by wifi4milez:

The vast majority of sites on the internet cant handle more than 10Mbps upload OR download. Heck, a good portion of sites are still served by T1's these days.
So why do we have datacentres with 100Mbit+ ports connecting to multi-gigabit switches when the vast majority of sites are still on 10Mbps?

Seriously are the majority of internet sites hosted on regular ethernet or lower bandwidth? How many sites sit off T1s?

We're talking actual websites, etc, right? Even my cheapy hosted site for a few bucks a month achieves over 10Mbit in both directions...
Many data centers serve end user customers (banks, media companies, etc.) who host their applications there. These customers do have a need for high bandwidth, however most of it is for internal use. Also keep in mind that data centers have multiple gigabit switches simply because of the number of customers they serve.

You are correct that the standard bandwidth for websites is now slowly migrating towards 10Mbps (due to the ease in provisioning a 10/100 port), however even when using ethernet often times sub 10Mbps bandwidths are chosen by the website provider. Dont take my word for it however, if you search around you will find that many sites still do not even support connections at 10Mbps simply due to the fact that they dont need to. Many people in this country can not get 10Mbps, so why would content providers (or websites) pay to support the few end users who can?

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: ???

said by wifi4milez:

Many people in this country can not get 10Mbps, so why would content providers (or websites) pay to support the few end users who can?
Because they have to operate on the assumption that more than one person at a time will be using their website / content perhaps. A content provider on a 10Mbps port serving 5 customers concurrently wouldn't really be providing at much pace.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: ???

said by Ignite:
said by wifi4milez:

Many people in this country can not get 10Mbps, so why would content providers (or websites) pay to support the few end users who can?
Because they have to operate on the assumption that more than one person at a time will be using their website / content perhaps. A content provider on a 10Mbps port serving 5 customers concurrently wouldn't really be providing at much pace.
While that is true to some extent, 10Mbps is still not the standard for many sites. Even those that do have higher bandwidth connections limit how much resources a given client can take up. They do this for the very reason you just mentioned; if a single user with a high capacity connection accesses the site they want to make sure others still can.
cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785 to what

Member

to what
i agree. i also fail to see what is 'lame' about 5 Mbps up. most residential users don't upload lots of crap often enought to warrant the need for 5 Mbps. if you run a game server, backup to somewhere online, p2p, or do a lot of remote connection stuff from elsewhere back to home, i just don't see the need.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: ???

Most residential users don't upload a lot of crap because their upload performance is terrible. There are only a few affordable applications that can take advantage of faster upload speeds, and since most users can't upload very fast anyway, it was never profitable to allow for users to upload lots of data at high speeds. It was generally a waste of resources that very few could take advantage of before.

Hopefully as we start seeing better upload performance, more and more practical uses will be created.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029 to what

Member

to what
Wel lconsidering here at cablevision i get 38/5 (advertised as 30/5) service with free web hosting, ports 80 and 25 open all for $60 a month with expandinjg free wifi for customers this deal just plain stinks.

I just dont udnerstand why the other cable companies like charter and comcast have such high prices.

coastjam
Premium Member
join:2001-03-05
Stamford, CT

coastjam

Premium Member

Charter Announces 60Mbps Internet Service

Yeah Right...let them get their current service correct first.

••••••••

Miffy
@cmdg.com

Miffy

Anon

Good story on Charter Ultra60

»www.multichannel.com/art ··· Mbps.php

WhiteWizard
Premium Member
join:2005-07-04
Farmington, MO

WhiteWizard

Premium Member

A Little too Late..

I think it's a little too late. They can barely keep current offers at advertised speeds.
Expand your moderator at work

SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

SLD

Premium Member

Better than Comcast

Here in Houston (4th largest city in the US), the highest speed Comcast offers is 8/2 for over $60/mo.

•••••••

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958

Premium Member

Seriously?

Like, whoa!!

5M up is kind of lame actually. Charter never has given away the upload though.

I'm on their 5/512 and get advertised speeds constantly.

Heck, even Verizon has higher upload on slower download around here, and I CAN'T get their maximum speed here due to filters some where along the lines. I'm only 6,000 feet from anything.

BinaryXtreme6
join:2004-04-20
Sparks, NV

BinaryXtreme6

Member

Bunch of Bull----!

I have the 10 meg package. I've tried the 16 meg and even Charter claims they have a long way to go to make the 16 meg service stable. I had tons of issues. Now they're going 60! Good luck with that.
tspangler3
join:2009-01-24

tspangler3

Member

Multichannel News story on Charter launch

FYI - more details:

»www.multichannel.com/art ··· Mbps.php

fatmanskinny
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Wandering

fatmanskinny

Premium Member

Ok, I will bite! What about CAPS?

Taking one for the team: Caps, caps, caps. Ok, now I officially opened up that can of worms, time to put on that flame suit.
tspangler3
join:2009-01-24

tspangler3

Member

Re: Ok, I will bite! What about CAPS?

Charter said no caps (for now), according to the Multichannel News story.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

morahnus and moraynus

Really? 60/5, not 60/6?
Who's idea of a stupid docis 3 joke came up with a 60/5 megabit tier idea? If your going to be stupid.. you need at least 10% UPLOAD AS THERE IS DOWNLOAD... AND IT SHOULD BE 60/60 WITH DOCSIS 3.0 NOT 60/5.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: morahnus and moraynus

said by tmc8080:

Really? 60/5, not 60/6?
Who's idea of a stupid docis 3 joke came up with a 60/5 megabit tier idea? If your going to be stupid.. you need at least 10% UPLOAD AS THERE IS DOWNLOAD... AND IT SHOULD BE 60/60 WITH DOCSIS 3.0 NOT 60/5.
it would be if it wasn't in america.
jhllne
join:2006-04-26
Madison, WI

jhllne

Member

fix the current network first!

They can't even make their 10 Mbps or 16 Mbps product work reliably. Why would anyone shell out $130/month for a completely unreliable (though intermittently fast) Internet connection?

I had Charter Internet for about a year and regularly had at least 1 or 2 outages a day sometimes 5 or 6, each one up to 30 minutes per outage. My wife works from home and her VPN connection to work would constantly disconnect. It wasn't a problem with the wiring from the pole to our house or the coax in our house -- it was a problem with Charter's piss-poor backbone network. When you'd run a traceroute, the network would just drop off at the 3rd or 4th hop. But, hey, we still had 10 Mbps of bandwidth on a road to nowhere! Thanks, Charter!

Charter would be better off fixing their oft-broken backbone network than spending money they don't have to attach DOCSIS 3.0 equipment to a network that doesn't work.

MadTown_MIke
@charter.com

MadTown_MIke

Anon

Re: fix the current network first!

said by jhllne:

Charter would be better off fixing their oft-broken backbone network than spending money they don't have to attach DOCSIS 3.0 equipment to a network that doesn't work.
I have them in Madison for 8 years. Never a problem. My 16MB is rock solid. The "backbone" is fine.

BigPete82
@qwest.net

BigPete82

Anon

AT&T Response?

With Comcast, Charter, and many other cable companies starting to deploy DOCSIS 3.0 speeds, how much longer can AT&T milk their copper? 50 & 60 Mpbs speeds are more than double AT&T's highest tier... Is it time for them to finally go FTTP? Yes, I saw their earnings report yesterday, but the longer they wait, the more they get passed up by superior technology. FTTP is going to take them years to deploy...

•••
BoMarty
join:2001-02-01
Ballwin, MO

BoMarty

Member

quit bitchin, you wont get the new speed package anyways

To those that complain. You are the ones that will never see those speed because you dont want it or can not afford it.

For those that can afford it, have fun

Simple: if you dont like the new package, dont get it.

For me personally, Charter runs 99.5% of the time very well. I do get advertised speeds. I can not complain.

Granted this pricing is a little steep, but the idea of "Charter" offering this is AMAZING! Who would think it would be Charter taking this action? This is GOOD NEWS to me. At least they are giving additional options and not sticking to the same speed packages year after year.

I am happy with Charter here in St Louis. I will testing out this new speed package ASAP. Why? 1- I have needs for this kind of speeds, and 2- I am willing to spend a little bit more to get a lot more speed. Who knows, the 16 meg package price "may" go down here in ST Louis

So those that complain, if you dont like it--> dont get it. If you can not afford it ---> dont get it.

Simple.

Enjoy your 16meg speeds

nolahd1
@cox.net

nolahd1

Anon

too costly then again so is cox

if they charged $60 or 70 for it and made it 60/60 then it would be worth it.

i could move like an hour away from me and get a 50/50 connection with 100/100 intranet fiber for $57 a month. cox is raping us now here with a 15 mb down 1.5 up connection for about 57 (67 without cable or phone)

•••
wispalord
join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

wispalord

Member

DAMN

60mb, and all the dmca notices i can shake a stick at :P
wispalord

wispalord

Member

Re: DAMN

ohh and i live in the subs of stl and cant even get on demand yet, but i can get 16/2 and it works fine...

Tech12
@charter.com

Tech12

Anon

Charter 60Mbps

If any of you belive that Charter will deliver that kind of speed, then I have some swamp property down in Florida that I'm letting go real cheap! They can't take care of what they have now. They are on the way out anyway.
BoMarty
join:2001-02-01
Ballwin, MO

BoMarty

Member

Re: Charter 60Mbps

said by Tech12 :

If any of you belive that Charter will deliver that kind of speed, then I have some swamp property down in Florida that I'm letting go real cheap! They can't take care of what they have now. They are on the way out anyway.
That's your problem, Charter can not deliver in your swampy property. TIME TO MOVE!!

Anyways, they have been delivering at or close to advertised speeds here in St Louis for a long long time. Maybe 6-8 years? Been too long

Oh, the swamp stays with you
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