 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| "wait and see" I'm sure he'll be aggressively looking at deployment where Charter stands a chance, but their debt is the 4 Million pound gorilla in the room.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress | |
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 | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: "wait and see" Dont you mean the "21.031 billion" pound gorilla? | |
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accountant_joe
@charter.com
| Re: "wait and see" said by Skippy25  :Dont you mean the "21.031 billion" pound gorilla? Knock their debt all you want. They have great credit and have been profitable the last 4 + years. | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: "wait and see" Can you really say a company, that was $19B in debt a couple of years ago and is now $21B in debt now, is profitable? If those numbers were switched I would still question it. | |
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MikeLo
@charter.com
| Re: "wait and see" said by Lazlow :Can you really say a company, that was $19B in debt a couple of years ago and is now $21B in debt now, is profitable? If those numbers were switched I would still question it. As long as they keep refinancing and have good credit, I wouldn't question it. I'd think Paul Allen would want to take the company private, take on the debt, and just write it off. Probably what's in the future for Charter. | |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
 ·Be There
| Re: "wait and see" said by MikeLo :
As long as they keep refinancing and have good credit, I wouldn't question it. I'd think Paul Allen would want to take the company private, take on the debt, and just write it off. Probably what's in the future for Charter. And how would Paul Allen be able to write all the debt off exactly? Last I saw creditors write credit off, not debtors.
That the debt keeps going up and is actually higher than the value of the company and all its' assets isn't really a good thing. They should be paying it down with any free cash flow not increasing it. Seem to be having to borrow just to keep going. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Charter is worth 43cents a share, atm their stock is worth less then General Motors.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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robl27
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL | Cox... When will we get this type of service??!!!
/me drools...
and what type of Caps are in Charter's TOS agreement?
-Rob | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Cox... said by robl27 :When will we get this type of service??!!! /me drools... and what type of Caps are in Charter's TOS agreement? Cox will be offering it soon "in select markets*"
* fios areas
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Cox... What makes you think earlier versions of Docsis are uncapable? | |
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| | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Re: Cox... Last time I checked the capping(at least the current type) was being done based on the cable modem's Mac address on the server (node) side. So it does not matter what version of Docsis the modem is using, they tally and control the cap from the far side of the modem. | |
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| | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Cox... houkouonchi
What you are describing is the cap on the speed of the modem. This is not the type of cap we are talking about. The current cap is on capacity (gigs downloaded per month). This capacity cap is tracked on the ISPs end and not the modem. Yes, you could circumvent this cap by changing the Mac of the modem to another valid Mac in the system(thus running up his tally instead of yours), but this would not be dependent on the Docsis version the system was running on(it is irrelevant). After the cap is reached the throttling is done on the ISPs side and generally not by changing the speed setting on the modem. Other than a Mac address the modem is essentially not involved. The ISPs are well aware of Mac spoofing. | |
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DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | What they should do They should deploy in non-FiOS areas
then they'd be the fastest in that area and have a better shot at getting people to go to new more expencive tiers | |
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| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: What they should do 16 Mbps is still faster than anything but fiber... | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: What they should do That's just it. There is zero incentive to upgrade in rural, non-competitive markets where the local telco is still offering 3-6Mbps DSL. | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: What they should do In the areas with Uverse(St. Louis) the new 18 meg speed may spur them on to boost speeds. | |
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raw
War Eagle
Premium
join:2001-01-17
Pasadena, MD
clubs: | ...and in said non-competitive (not necessarily rural) markets, the prices are also ridiculously high because Charter knows there is no legitimate alternative. | |
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| | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: What they should do Basically, at this point, "competitive" means wherever FiOS and UVerse are. Qwest isn't competitive, even with their 20 Mbps tier. | |
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raw
War Eagle
Premium
join:2001-01-17
Pasadena, MD
clubs:
| Re: What they should do said by iansltx :Basically, at this point, "competitive" means wherever FiOS and UVerse are. Even other cable companies in direct competition are sufficient to (marginally) kick Charter's ass in gear. | |
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| | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Re: What they should do True, however I don't think Charter is going to roll out DOCSIS 3 unless a competitive cable operator (the most advanced of which is WOW) does the same. | |
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plover
@charter.com
| said by iansltx :16 Mbps is still faster than anything but fiber... Fiber can be rate limited the same a coax. I fail to see the point. It's not the FIOS companies are offering a GE to your PC. In fact, most cable companies have greater backbone capacity than the telcos. Unless you are looking at a national level. Locally, nothing beats cable (imo) | |
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| | | jca2050
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Lewisville, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What they should do The percentage of FiOS customers that see speed drops is extremely rare, I know I never have. Verizon is in the middle of nationwide GPON deployment which splits 2.4Gbps downstream and 1.2Gbps upstream between 32-64 users. The current BPON tech that most customers are on split 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream between 32 users. How does that compare to cable? | |
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plover
@charter.com
| Re: What they should do said by jca2050 :The percentage of FiOS customers that see speed drops is extremely rare, I know I never have. Verizon is in the middle of nationwide GPON deployment which splits 2.4Gbps downstream and 1.2Gbps upstream between 32-64 users. The current BPON tech that most customers are on split 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream between 32 users. How does that compare to cable? To the Docsis 3.0 8 channel system ...pretty comparable. Plus no need to split between 32-64 users on DOCSIS. 340MB/120MB on 3.0 8 channel (per user). | |
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| | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: What they should do No, plover. Even on Docsis 3.0 those channels are shared. Yes, it adds more channels per user to minimize congestion, but they are all still shared channels. | |
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charmSCHOOL
@charter.com
| Re: What they should do said by iansltx :.. and cable just doesn't have as much as fiber. Rate-limited, yes, but the capacity is much, MUCH higher. BPON alone has more capacity than the best available channel-bonding DOCSIS, and GPON blows DOCSIS 3 out of the water, unless you have three people on a node  You do realize that the telcos and the cable companies run the same kind of basic core infrastructures. What people fail to realize is that no matter what you run to the home be it fiber or coax, you are still limited by your core network. And your "theory" that cable companies don't have as much fiber in the ground as the telcos is absolutely, 100%, ludicrous. So while fiber is a great medium to deliver content to your home, don't bank on them piping 500MB to you, because their core infrastructure would start melting. What it takes to deliver the standard triple play to your home is not as much as people think. With Docsis 3.0 and switched digital video, the cables companies are in a fine position to compete with FIOS (which is still pretty limited compared to fiber rich cable companies). | |
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| | | | | | | | jca2050
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Lewisville, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What they should do They can compete with FiOS but not match them in terms of downstream and upstream. The Comcast top 'next gen' tier for Docsis 3.0 is 50/5 which is still inferior to FiOS 50/20 service they have had out for along time. This 50/5 tier apparently comes with the 250GB usage cap too which can be hit (if my math serves me correctly) in just over 11 hours of nonstop downloading at full speed?
I agree the the core infrastructures are probably similar, we are talking about delivering the data from the home to the head end, which is where FTTH is superior. Going from the head end on out just depends on how much bandwidth your provider has at their disposal. | |
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| | | | | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
 ·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: What they should do True. But keep in mind that AT&T has a 40 gigabit network nationwide now, and Verizon is starting to deploy 100 gigabit gear. Comcast is GigE at the edges, 10GE further into the network, and 40G at the core, and is starting to work on 100 Gbit gear. On the other hand, TWC has less infrastructure (10GE I think), as does Cox. Smaller cable providers rely on telco backhaul.
When it gets down to the core network though, the more capacity you have overall, the harder it is to put a squeeze on that capacity, even if you're providing high-end tiers with no caps. Also, DWDM and dark fiber mean that the capacity problem is always at the edge, especially for cable. FiOS doesn't have to do SDV, because they have a TON of edge capacity. | |
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| | | | | | | | | jca2050
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Lewisville, TX | Re: What they should do Unfortunately for AT&T they keep trying to cling onto their xDSL technology which just can't compare to DOCSIS 3.0 cable providers and FiOS. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | said by plover :said by iansltx :16 Mbps is still faster than anything but fiber... Fiber can be rate limited the same a coax. I fail to see the point. It's not the FIOS companies are offering a GE to your PC. In fact, most cable companies have greater backbone capacity than the telcos. Unless you are looking at a national level. Locally, nothing beats cable (imo) Fiber has an exponential amount of bandwidth over Coax.
A single Wavelength of Light can encase a 50Mhz too 850Mhz spectrum of RF. That is how HFC works. Now you can put at least 80 Wavelengths on a single piece of Fiber. You do the Math. Not to mention a Digital Modulated Light can do an OC768 (40Gbps) of POS (packet over SONET). | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| AT&T Uverse is just too limited still, for being far newer of a tech the HFC plant is still kicking its ass down the block simply because it can be upgraded with SDV and DOCSIS 3. Cable will have to go fiber someday, but atleast they can hold out longer, which also means when it comes FTTH time for cable the tech will be faster and cheaper.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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docsis 30
@comcast.net | Perhaps they could apply for a government bailout for the 21 billion in debt?
Why not..every one else is. | |
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| bzmeteorite
join:2006-02-15
Nipomo, CA
| Re: Perhaps they could apply for a government Yup, because the internet is a utility!
</sarcasm>
Anyhow, I like the idea that they want to upgrade their infrastructure, but it makes no sense to do so unless it's a sound, sustainable business plan. I'd rather see slower speeds and caps than them implement something that will cause them to go down under only to be assimilated by a much more evil company.
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What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality? | |
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RR User
@rr.com
| Docsis 3: If TWC can't, Charter can! How does one of the most debt-ridden cable providers plan to offer Docsis 3, yet one of the most profitable and large providers (TWC) seems to have no plan to offer Docsis 3. All we get is news of their testing with ridiculously low caps.
If Charter wants to get out of debt, they should consider slapping on 5GB/mo caps with $1-2/GB overage fees. Now there's an idea! With a speedy Docsis 3 connection you could only imagine the profit that will start streaming though the pipes! | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Docsis 3: If TWC can't, Charter can! don't give them any ideas. that would have me fleeing back into the arms of, ugh, AT&T. | |
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| | watts3000
join:2002-01-21
Birmingham, AL
| Re: Docsis 3: If TWC can't, Charter can! Actually I think Charter is starting to pay off sum of there debt. I think that was a much larger number a few years back. I'm a charter customer with 16 megs and I love the service. Right now Charter does not do caps and thats what I like Uverse will be coming to my area soon but I will not switch from Charter. | |
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bill1030
@charter.com | Re: Docsis 3: If TWC can't, Charter can! Actually, they aren't paying off their debt fast enough. You can see this by reading their quarterly reports.
In the 3rd Quarter, Charter's Operating Income was $200 million short of servicing their debt! | |
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eyeman
@verizon.net | north texas where are they adding customers? they are losing all their customers in dallas area to fios | |
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luckykevin
join:2005-04-30
Arlington, TX | Re: north texas not true because they are gaining customers in uverse areas | |
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Charter DOCSIS 3.0 Within Months
