 flycuban
join:2005-04-25
Homestead, FL
| Funny Funny that at the end of the day - consumers still have the option of choosing whomever they want as their ISP, etc. Comcast can compete just as any other provider in the area. Consumers are NOT being forced to purchase services from any one company, unless there isn't any other company to choose from.
I wish we had some type of fiber to the home, instead of at&t's u-verse crap down here in Miami. Florida Power & Light tested BPL technology a few years ago, found out that providing internet access to residential customers would open a whole new can of worms. FPL is in the business of energy not being an ISP. Which is what most large energy companies don't want to get into. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Funny said by flycuban  :Funny that at the end of the day - consumers still have the option of choosing whomever they want as their ISP, etc. Comcast can compete just as any other provider in the area. Consumers are NOT being forced to purchase services from any one company, unless there isn't any other company to choose from. They are forced to take services from the electric utilty, which may be forced to subsidize the ISP services if that venture proves unprofitable. Then those electric customers could see higher rates to cover the ISP losses.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Funny Out of curiosity, would you detail a publicly funded ISP Scenario that you WOULD be in favor of?
I'm just trying to figure out if (such as an O'Bama supporter would do) your conclusions are pre-determined with the supporting facts filled in later.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533 | Re: Funny There isn't one. It's all FUD with him. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Since this is a public effort, will others have access to the infrastructure to provide their own services for benefit of the public? Reverse argument of the one that is typically made regarding private companies not sharing their infrastructure built in municipalities' ROWs. That would be a starter for me that I would begin to favor a publicly funded ISP scenario. | |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: Funny said by openbox9 :Since this is a public effort, will others have access to the infrastructure to provide their own services for benefit of the public? Reverse argument of the one that is typically made regarding private companies not sharing their infrastructure built in municipalities' ROWs. That would be a starter for me that I would begin to favor a publicly funded ISP scenario. If by "others" you mean the cable and telephone companies, then hell no. They aren't willing to open their own networks, so why should they get access to the municipality's? | |
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| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Funny By others I mean any viable and legal entity that wishes to use the public infrastructure to provide a service. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by GOLFnSUN :said by flycuban :Funny that at the end of the day - consumers still have the option of choosing whomever they want as their ISP, etc. Comcast can compete just as any other provider in the area. Consumers are NOT being forced to purchase services from any one company, unless there isn't any other company to choose from. They are forced to take services from the electric utilty, which may be forced to subsidize the ISP services if that venture proves unprofitable. Then those electric customers could see higher rates to cover the ISP losses. Yes, and Puff the Magic Dragon could fly down the street. Hey, it's possible, however it's very unlikely.
From their FAQ:
Is it fair for government to compete with the private sector?
One of government’s key responsibilities is to provide communities with infrastructure and fiber optics is a key infrastructure much like roads, sewer systems and the electric system. Well-functioning infrastructures help private businesses grow and compete which is the primary reason we think Chattanooga should have it.
Yes, we are government but we raised the capital for the construction of this project just like any company, we will have to pay franchising fees to deliver video services in each municipality just like any company, we will pay tax equivalents like any other company would. | |
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Pizz
Hi
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: Funny If the Cable/Telco's were smart, they would try and ink an agreement with this FTTH muni, and be their upstream carrier to the internet. ATT in Utah was smart, and inked a deal with Utopia Networks »www.redorbit.com/news/technology···dex.html
Even though ATT is not their ISP, they still provide transit, which sill turns a very nice profit as a carrier. I'm sure Verizon (tier 1 provider) Qwest, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, all have backbones that could easily provide upstream to the internet.
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The more you talk, the less you listen. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Funny said by Pizz :If the Cable/Telco's were smart, they would try and ink an agreement with this FTTH muni, and be their upstream carrier to the internet. ATT in Utah was smart, and inked a deal with Utopia Networks » www.redorbit.com/news/technology···dex.htmlEven though ATT is not their ISP, they still provide transit, which sill turns a very nice profit as a carrier. I'm sure Verizon (tier 1 provider) Qwest, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, all have backbones that could easily provide upstream to the internet. I agree wholeheartedly. Let the muni manage the last mile and let the incumbents provide access over it. | |
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jarrodholder
join:2002-07-22
Rossville, GA
clubs:
|  North Georgia EPB Customers?
I don't care so much about the TV and Phone products (not that I wouldn't mind switching) but I REALLY want the Fiber Internet! | |
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| flycuban
join:2005-04-25
Homestead, FL | Re: North Georgia EPB Customers? Same here - I think a 10/10 internet connection would be fine with me.  | |
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| | jarrodholder
join:2002-07-22
Rossville, GA
clubs: | Re: North Georgia EPB Customers? Agreed. 8/8 or even 6/6 would make me happy considering what I have now (dual 3MB dsl load-balanced). | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | I don't think they have a CLEC license in the state of Georgia. | |
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| | jarrodholder
join:2002-07-22
Rossville, GA
clubs:
| Re: North Georgia EPB Customers? said by battleop :I don't think they have a CLEC license in the state of Georgia. They may not 'yet', but they are 'saying' they will service their Georgia customers as per their website. Just no real dates. | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: North Georgia EPB Customers? They have been saying that for years on the business side of the house. Maybe the increased foot print will be worth the effort to them. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| More Misplaced Priorities »www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008···d-crime/
»chattanooga.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
»www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cha···a/crime/
quote:
With a crime rate of 107 per one thousand residents, Chattanooga has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 9. Within Tennessee, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Chattanooga.
Glad to see the local government has such a "take charge" attitide towards real problems. A quick glance at Google shows that the public school system doesn't seem to be that great either.
But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| jarrodholder
join:2002-07-22
Rossville, GA
clubs:
1 edit | Re: More Misplaced Priorities quote:
But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right?
YEP! | |
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Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN | those statistics are really localized to certain neighborhoods in that area. A very large part of Chattanooga is much safer than most other mid sized cities i have been to. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities I just have a problem with a government uses an entity it controls, in this case, the local electric utility, to gain a competitive advantage over private companies when the same government doesn't use an entity it controls, in the other case, law enforcement, to deal with real problems that are more pertinent.
The problem with high rates of crime in localized areas is that it makes the entire city look bad.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by pnh102 :I just have a problem with a government uses an entity it controls, in this case, the local electric utility, to gain a competitive advantage over private companies when the same government doesn't use an entity it controls, in the other case, law enforcement, to deal with real problems that are more pertinent. Funny how you do not have a problem with a government propping a business with no compete franchises so that tax payers have less choice in service providers and pay more.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by sturmvogel :Funny how you do not have a problem with a government propping a business with no compete franchises so that tax payers have less choice in service providers and pay more. I do?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | jarrodholder
join:2002-07-22
Rossville, GA
clubs:
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by badtrip :You must hate the hell out of the US Postal Service then. LOL!  | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Doesn't everyone? | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by openbox9 :Doesn't everyone? If anyone wants to save $.44, they can always deliver their own letter to Maine or Alaska.
My local PO's are great. I'm rarely in line more than 5 or 10 minutes and the folks working there are courteous and know their jobs.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities Do we really need the USPS for letter mail any more? My comment was tongue in cheek as my local post office's service is good. I do have a problem with the service's struggle to adapt to the Internet-age, but that could be a whole thread topic unto itself. | |
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| | | ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| said by pnh102 :I just have a problem with a government uses an entity it controls, in this case, the local electric utility, to gain a competitive advantage over private companies when the same government doesn't use an entity it controls, in the other case, law enforcement, to deal with real problems that are more pertinent. Then how do you feel about utilities using public rights-of-way to run their lines? | |
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Neyland
join:2003-02-04
USA | Guess that's up to the citizens of the city. | |
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Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
·Knology
| said by pnh102 :» www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008···d-crime/» chattanooga.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm» www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cha···a/crime/ quote:
With a crime rate of 107 per one thousand residents, Chattanooga has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 9. Within Tennessee, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Chattanooga.
Glad to see the local government has such a "take charge" attitide towards real problems. A quick glance at Google shows that the public school system doesn't seem to be that great either. But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right? I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by Vertickle :I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... I was thinking the same thing.
Why are we holding the electric utility management responsible for the isolated high crime rate spots in the city?
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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Neyland
join:2003-02-04
USA
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by Noah Vail :said by Vertickle :I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... I was thinking the same thing. Why are we holding the electric utility management responsible for the isolated high crime rate spots in the city? NV He's trying to say the gov shouldn't have let the electric company (which it owns) take out bonds to perform these upgrades.
Instead they should have figured out a way to allow the electric company to take out bonds to donate to the schools or fund police officers.
See how all that makes sense? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Vertickle :I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... According to the EPB's website it is a government agency. This means it is exempted from many of the rules and taxes that a company like Comcast would have to pay.
The only grounds under which a plan like this could be challenged by Comcast or another competitor is that this is the government trying to muscle in on a what should be a task left to private industry. I only posted the crime and schools info because I believe that the government in general should be more focused on these issues than the niche of fiber optic internet.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by pnh102 :The only grounds under which a plan like this could be challenged by Comcast or another competitor is that this is the government trying to muscle in on a what should be a task left to private industry. I only posted the crime and schools info because I believe that the government in general should be more focused on these issues than the niche of fiber optic internet. Comcast isn't bringing fiber to the home, AT&T isn't bringing fiber to home, only Verizon amongst the majors is bringing fiber to the home and their not doing it throughout their territory. When private enterprise isn't willing to compete in a technology that is clearly the future they have no business complaining about government competition. | |
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kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by Sammer : When private enterprise isn't willing to compete in a technology that is clearly the future they have no business complaining about government competition. I wonder if the threat of government competition (with all of the advantages the government has) is exactly what is making them willing to invest in the technology. | |
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| | | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| said by Sammer :said by pnh102 :The only grounds under which a plan like this could be challenged by Comcast or another competitor is that this is the government trying to muscle in on a what should be a task left to private industry. I only posted the crime and schools info because I believe that the government in general should be more focused on these issues than the niche of fiber optic internet. Comcast isn't bringing fiber to the home, AT&T isn't bringing fiber to home, only Verizon amongst the majors is bringing fiber to the home and their not doing it throughout their territory. When private enterprise isn't willing to compete in a technology that is clearly the future they have no business complaining about government competition. Everyone knows Verizon is cherrypicking. This isn't uncommon knowledge. Hell, they literally built two one block away from where I live and split. | |
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| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: More Misplaced Priorities said by PapaMidnight :Everyone knows Verizon is cherrypicking. Not in my new neighborhood. I won't have access to VZ FiOS, or DSL for that matter, but less expensive neighborhoods already have service. So, everyone doesn't know that VZ is cherrypicking. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by pnh102 :said by Vertickle :I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... I only posted the crime and schools info because I believe that the government in general should be more focused on these issues than the niche of fiber optic internet. 99%+ of the time spent on the proposed fiber rollout will be done by the utility service who isn't connected with crime management in any way.
The city council needs about a minute to vote on the financing, except to deal with any interference that Comcast would generate.
Comcast's artificial obstructions shouldn't be legitimized for the same reason that kidnappers and terrorists demands shouldn't be met. It only encourages more bad behavior from self interested entities who hold no real-life concern for the public at large.
My above statement explains why I'm not equating Comcast with Al-Qaeda or the SLA. If anyone is tempted to muddy the issue via that tactic, please continue to re-read the above until the urge leaves you. Thanks.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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| | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| said by Vertickle :said by pnh102 :» www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008···d-crime/» chattanooga.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm» www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cha···a/crime/ quote:
With a crime rate of 107 per one thousand residents, Chattanooga has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 9. Within Tennessee, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Chattanooga.
Glad to see the local government has such a "take charge" attitide towards real problems. A quick glance at Google shows that the public school system doesn't seem to be that great either. But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right? I fail to see what the EPB of Chattanooga has to do with local crime rates... It was obviously a clean re-direct. | |
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| PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| said by pnh102 :» www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008···d-crime/» chattanooga.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm» www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cha···a/crime/ quote:
With a crime rate of 107 per one thousand residents, Chattanooga has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 9. Within Tennessee, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Chattanooga.
Glad to see the local government has such a "take charge" attitide towards real problems. A quick glance at Google shows that the public school system doesn't seem to be that great either. But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right? Damn straight. Nice re-direct, by the way. | |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| said by pnh102 :» www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008···d-crime/» chattanooga.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm» www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/cha···a/crime/ quote:
With a crime rate of 107 per one thousand residents, Chattanooga has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 9. Within Tennessee, more than 90% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Chattanooga.
Glad to see the local government has such a "take charge" attitide towards real problems. A quick glance at Google shows that the public school system doesn't seem to be that great either. But I guess fiber optic internet on the taxpayer dime is more important than having safe streets and good schools, right? Solving crime and school issues are really hard to do where as rolling out super fast broadband is a lot simpler.
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Capitalism is competition, if you don't have competition then you don't have capitalism.
Rush Limbaugh is the cliff clavin of the republican party.
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jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC
| Very interesting indeed Lately it seems that a number of cities and towns across the US are rolling their own Fiber systems. I think its great. It is not as if it is a socialized system. Well, the installation of the system is yes and its run by a city. However, customers still pay a subscription fee.
The only people who are afraid of this are the cable companies and the incumbent telephone companies. They whine and try to use litigation to tie up the courts and waste taxpayer dollars on court costs to try to get protection from competition. This is nothing more than corporate welfare.
NC has two cities that are rolling out their own muni fiber systems. One is the greenlight system in Wilson and then Salisbury is rolling one out as well. The incumbents have tried on several occasions to get the general assembly to pass bills preventing municipalities from competing in the local arena. Fortunately, right now we have a sensible general assembly that just about refuses to hear this nonsense. Every time they have shelved the bills that incumbents have introduced (and don't think for a minute that the bill wasn't written or at least heavily influenced by the incumbents).
I am glad to see that Chattanooga is willing to deliver and is able to do so where either the incumbents cannot (sometimes they can't realistically) or where in some cases they refuse to do it. Hopefully, the legislature in Nashville has as much sense as the NC General Assembly in Raleigh to laugh off any kind of nonsense bills introduced by the incumbents.
Have a nice day. Thanks. | |
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sturmvogel
Obama '08
join:2008-02-07
Houston, TX | Well said ! | |
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| PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD | You, sir, get a thumbs up. | |
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| me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
 ·VOIPo
1 edit | "The only people who are afraid of this are the cable companies and the incumbent telephone companies. They whine and try to use litigation to tie up the courts and waste taxpayer dollars on court costs to try to get protection from competition. This is nothing more than corporate welfare."
Which is why IMHO the private sector is the way to go, but NOT the big ISPs like comcast. Smaller ISPs could get a Gov. grant from the city and operate it with out the city owning it that way the BIG ISPs would have a harder time stopping it, and it would keep the people who say the Gov should not own any ISP happy and get some support from them. If the city is the only one who will do it yeah then they can, but if a private individual will do it it helps keep the big ISPs from stopping it. | |
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jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC
| Off topic but brief Law enforcement is important. However, instead of cordoning off a section of a city and then locking everyone up inside it you don't like why not try to reach to those communities to influence them. For instance, the US has the largest inmate population in the world.
Some crimes like murder, rape, grand theft auto, bank robbery, and other violent and serious crimes are legit for jail sentences. But is it really to your benefit to crack heads on every person who has an ounce of marijuana. How much petty nonsense is created in departments in cities trying to enforce unenforceable laws. On the other hand, I would say the same is true of hand guns. OHHH, thats contradictory some would say on both sides of the fence. I support legalization of marijuana and also the right to own hand guns.
I suppose that makes me an enemy on both side of the fence. As a democrat, I still don't always agree with everything the party says.
My point is. Some things cannot be enforced. For instance, some in the left extreme would love to disarm everyone. Is that really enforceable when it is a constitutional right and many would just as well shoot someone before they'd let them take away their arms. By the same token, is it really worthwhile to try to lock up and punish everyone who smokes pot or grows it, etc when it is a much less harmful drug than alcohol? Not to mention the expense to enforce it in courts, jails, law enforcement etc.
Also, if you don't fix the problem of the source of the crimes which starts with parents in the home then you have little chance of really solving the problem. Jail for some smaller crimes is a bandaid solution and tougher sentencing has not helped except to cost taxpayers a crap load of money.
Thank you. Have a nice day. | |
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Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com
| Municipal systems are often the only credible competition In Toronto, the local electric utility had a fiber trunk network serving only the business community. They had about 500km of fiber altogether, but it was routed through/near major residential areas as it served businesses throughout the city.
Because the city was hard-up for cash about a year ago, the municipal government forced the sale of the fiber to a cable company -- the fiber being the most salable asset the city had aside from land.
The purchaser has not made any announcements about providing FTTH, nor have there been any sightings of FTTH infrastructure being installed by them anywhere in the city.
So it is now unlikely that Toronto will get FTTH anytime soon from either the incumbent telco or cableco because the duopoly has no need to force one another to do so because all credible 'last mile' competition has been taken out of the picture.
Funny how fiber seems to command a premium price when it's sold to an incumbent. | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA | Time to Visit!!! A good excuse to visit my parents in CHA!!! They probably wont even notice the higher speed (but I will...laptop in tow) | |
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rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN
·Comcast
| Chattanooga i have lived here for 30 years. the school system sucks, the police response time is shit (30 minutes unless your shot and bleeding to death) the crime rate is incredible, there are at least 3 unsolved shootings a week, the gangs run the street and prostitution and meth are huge problems. add the illegal mexicans that have infested the area due to the chicken processing facilities, and this place isnt that great be around.
but by god, we will have fiber to the home. | |
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Chattanooga Offers Fiber To The Home
Re: Very interesting indeed
