ToadmanHypnotoad join:2001-11-28 Mystery 1 edit |
Chinese govt fooling themselves.I have spent a lot of time in China for business and I was very suprised on how much the people I dealt with knew what was going on and what was happening in the world and their local government. most of them were able to get what they want without a vpn because the information was there. Actually their peer to peer networks were good enough you could download pretty much anything you wanted. The great firewall still Has a lot of holes.
I did use a vpn but that was more for work ( I have to ). The only sight I ever saw blocked on a regular basis was the department store target ( had to pay cc ). From time To time google was blocked but on a cell phone connection ( roaming ) it never was. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.China doesn't care if tourists and business travelers use VPNs. They only want to restrict their own people.
Hell, cellular providers typically provide an automatic VPN back to the home country when roaming. When I was abroad my AT&T phone roaming on Canadian carriers was coming from the same IP address pool it used domestically. Just makes things a lot easier all around.
That said, I'm appalled they're taking away 5.5 years of this man's life for something like this. It's sickening how paranoid the Chinese government is. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by SpottedCat:That said, I'm appalled they're taking away 5.5 years of this man's life for something like this. It's sickening how paranoid the Chinese government is. True, though I doubt the sentence would be "just" 5.5 years were this man somewhere like North Korea. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.The Chinese government is more setting the precident than anything else, and this guy is the test case for their kangaroo courts. Now that they got this guy, they can go after every single VPN provider they want, and anyone "running" them or selling access to them can now be given a prison sentence. This is how they will shut the door on VPNs in china, by making people scared to run them. Its a ruling by fear, which is a favored tactic of the current regime there. | |
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| | | | KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
3 recommendations |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2017-Dec-27 11:27 am
Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.if the MPAA got their way every country would have VPN laws like this just so people could not skirt their obsolete regional limitations. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by Kearnstd:if the MPAA got their way every country would have VPN laws like this just so people could not skirt their obsolete regional limitations. If they got their way, anyone suspected of pirating a video would be executed. | |
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to Chubbysumo
said by Chubbysumo:The Chinese government is more setting the precident than anything else, and this guy is the test case for their kangaroo courts. Now that they got this guy, they can go after every single VPN provider they want, and anyone "running" them or selling access to them can now be given a prison sentence. This is how they will shut the door on VPNs in china, by making people scared to run them. Its a ruling by fear, which is a favored tactic of the current regime there. the Chinese leadership, just like any other Communists, very much enjoys the power and money they get under Communism, which is why they are very fearful of having an informed populace, they might figure out what has been going on is very wrong, and rebel on a mass scale!!.. Communism don't benefit the Citizens, only the small group of leaders.. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.for the record, if its governed by a small group of leaders it is not communism it's a dictatorship /monarchy communism in reality is self governance by the people (its parts of the word communal is abbreviated ) | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by ernestsegui:for the record, if its governed by a small group of leaders it is not communism it's a dictatorship /monarchy communism in reality is self governance by the people (its parts of the word communal is abbreviated ) That is what communism is in practice. | |
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to ernestsegui
said by ernestsegui:for the record, if its governed by a small group of leaders it is not communism it's a dictatorship /monarchy communism in reality is self governance by the people (its parts of the word communal is abbreviated ) the meaning has gotten abused and distorted by Dictators that try to fool their people by calling themselves Communists for so long, that most people think that is what it is.. | |
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| | ToadmanHypnotoad join:2001-11-28 Mystery |
to SpottedCat
said by SpottedCat:Hell, cellular providers typically provide an automatic VPN back to the home country when roaming. When I was abroad my AT&T phone roaming on Canadian carriers was coming from the same IP address pool it used domestically. Just makes things a lot easier all around.
That said, I'm appalled they're taking away 5.5 years of this man's life for something like this. It's sickening how paranoid the Chinese government is. The hotel internet has no clue if I am a traveIer or a domestic. I have also used multiple companies internet I was visiting and never had really any issues with vpn or not. The great firewall isn't much of one. Any news site I went to wasn't blocked. I have never seen att automatically vpn back in. Maybe Canada felt a little different but then again I don't consider that an international destination. I have been in 40 different countries and whenever I have been roaming it is 100% on their network and my IP address says I am on their network and I have att as well. I even checked it one time in Vietnam and I was on vietel and it and I checked my ip Address as well. | |
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| | | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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fuziwuzi
Premium Member
2017-Dec-27 12:41 pm
Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.There is a lot of Western sites that are blocked in China. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, many news sites, many universities, Wikipedia. Using T-Mobile's free roaming, however, you ARE VPN'ed back to a US IP address so you can access any of those sites while in China. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by fuziwuzi:There is a lot of Western sites that are blocked in China. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, many news sites, many universities, Wikipedia. Using T-Mobile's free roaming, however, you ARE VPN'ed back to a US IP address so you can access any of those sites while in China. Just a FYI, it is proxied back to the US. There is no VPN. The private part is not present. | |
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to SpottedCat
said by SpottedCat:China doesn't care if tourists and business travelers use VPNs. They only want to restrict their own people.
Hell, cellular providers typically provide an automatic VPN back to the home country when roaming. When I was abroad my AT&T phone roaming on Canadian carriers was coming from the same IP address pool it used domestically. Just makes things a lot easier all around.
That said, I'm appalled they're taking away 5.5 years of this man's life for something like this. It's sickening how paranoid the Chinese government is. Information, misinformation, and disinformation are all powerful, and with technology getting better and better, it makes it all the more important. | |
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| gsm join:2009-03-10 144-0052 |
to Toadman
I have lived there and worked in Shanghai for in over 2 years in 2006. I was also surprised by what the locals knew it's not as tight controll and the news makes it out to be. It was better when Google was in China. The great firewall of China still has a lot of holes as long as you have someone on wechat that lived outside of China you can get all the news and info. I doubt China will be able to block wechat any time soon. I have streamed CNN on my tv using my laptop across wechat for them and it works. It's a bit awkward but works. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by gsm:I have lived there and worked in Shanghai for in over 2 years in 2006. I was also surprised by what the locals knew it's not as tight controll and the news makes it out to be. It was better when Google was in China. The great firewall of China still has a lot of holes as long as you have someone on wechat that lived outside of China you can get all the news and info. I doubt China will be able to block wechat any time soon. I have streamed CNN on my tv using my laptop across wechat for them and it works. It's a bit awkward but works. Are you aware that they are monitoring WeChat? The police will show up if you say anything that triggers their regular expressions. I would joke about them being the thought police, but my contacts indicate it is the actual local police. | |
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| | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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to gsm
There has been a lot of change since 2006. Many VPNs simply don't work anymore as the GFW has figured out how to block the VPN completely. There are a few that still work, but they have to constantly shift their DNS and ports because the GFW will eventually block them. Some VPN operators have simply given up. And WeChat? LOL. WeChat is very closely monitored. Your "private" WeChat conversations are certainly not private to the GFW. They monitor keywords and they WILL follow up with in-person "interviews" if they deem it necessary. And some subjects simply won't post on WeChat. You make a comment mentioning certain things, it will show on your timeline but nobody else's. You're effectively silenced. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by fuziwuzi:There has been a lot of change since 2006. Many VPNs simply don't work anymore as the GFW has figured out how to block the VPN completely. There are a few that still work, but they have to constantly shift their DNS and ports because the GFW will eventually block them. Some VPN operators have simply given up. And WeChat? LOL. WeChat is very closely monitored. Your "private" WeChat conversations are certainly not private to the GFW. They monitor keywords and they WILL follow up with in-person "interviews" if they deem it necessary. And some subjects simply won't post on WeChat. You make a comment mentioning certain things, it will show on your timeline but nobody else's. You're effectively silenced. Private VPNs work as long as you avoid the fairly simplistic heuristics. L2TP/IPSec reportedly has no restrictions. | |
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| | | | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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fuziwuzi
Premium Member
2017-Dec-29 1:34 pm
Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.Your VPN won't work if you can't connect to the blocked VPN servers. That's the point. The GFW is actively blocking access to the servers outside. When they discover one, it is blocked. VPN providers have to constantly shift their addresses and get the info out to users. Many have simply given up because it is a resource-intensive effort. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by fuziwuzi:Your VPN won't work if you can't connect to the blocked VPN servers. That's the point. The GFW is actively blocking access to the servers outside. When they discover one, it is blocked. VPN providers have to constantly shift their addresses and get the info out to users. Many have simply given up because it is a resource-intensive effort. A private VPN implies that you are your own VPN provider. Furthermore, the great firewall is not that smart. I have already stated that L2TP/IPSec gets through it. I am not going to list all of the techniques that I know to bypass it lest the great firewall operators read this post and train their firewall to block them on a whim. I can assure you that businesses are using VPNs through the great firewall without a problem. The great firewall is not intended to prevent VPNs used by businesses to stop working. Had it been, L2TP/IPSec would be blocked in general and China’s economy would suffer. The people running the great firewall sign up for public VPN service accounts to learn the end point IPs. Then blocking them is simple. Being a private VPN provider is means that it is only for you / your organization and therefore there is no way for the public to sign up for accounts, which avoids the problem of being manually blacklisted for running a VPN service for the public. | |
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| | | | | | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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fuziwuzi
Premium Member
2017-Dec-31 12:10 pm
Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You keep replying to my comments with things I've not even mentioned. My comment is in reference to VPN providers like Witopia and others who provide a service to the public for a fee. Many of them can no longer provide service to people in China because the endpoints are blocked and the constant need to update endpoint addresses is simply too resource intensive to continue. Yes, registered businesses can and do use their own VPN services. I never stated otherwise. My comments were strictly about citizens and visitors using VPNs to access websites and services outside of China, like Facebook, Twitter, and others. And WeChat and other systems are most definitely being closely monitored, most likely by AI that is tuned by keywords which are constantly being updated. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by fuziwuzi:I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You keep replying to my comments with things I've not even mentioned. My comment is in reference to VPN providers like Witopia and others who provide a service to the public for a fee. Many of them can no longer provide service to people in China because the endpoints are blocked and the constant need to update endpoint addresses is simply too resource intensive to continue. Yes, registered businesses can and do use their own VPN services. I never stated otherwise. My comments were strictly about citizens and visitors using VPNs to access websites and services outside of China, like Facebook, Twitter, and others. And WeChat and other systems are most definitely being closely monitored, most likely by AI that is tuned by keywords which are constantly being updated. There is nothing stopping someone who understands how to do networking from using a VPN connection. They just need to get a machine somewhere to be the server. Datacenters like digital ocean lease virtual machines for very little. It would be trivial to use one of those. By the way, I have been a visitor to China. Nothing kept me from using a VPN. It was trivial. You seem to think otherwise. :/ | |
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| | | | | | | | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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fuziwuzi
Premium Member
2018-Jan-2 12:13 pm
Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.I think otherwise because I've lived in China and know firsthand the frustrations of having your VPN service not work and having to rely on their techs to reroute connections to overcome the latest GFW blocks. You are completely and utterly void of any semblance of reality if you think everyone understands how to set up a VPN from scratch and has the resources to do so. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by fuziwuzi:I think otherwise because I've lived in China and know firsthand the frustrations of having your VPN service not work and having to rely on their techs to reroute connections to overcome the latest GFW blocks. You are completely and utterly void of any semblance of reality if you think everyone understands how to set up a VPN from scratch and has the resources to do so. I have been in China for a month at a time and bypassing the firewall was child’s play. I think that you just are not very knowledge in this area. I also never claimed that everyone knows how to setup a VPN. That kind of is the point of the GFW restrictions. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.sarcanine the bigger issue is not if they can be bypassed but the fact that there is a need in the first place anything can be circumvented | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.said by ernestsegui:sarcanine the bigger issue is not if they can be bypassed but the fact that there is a need in the first place anything can be circumvented Imperfect connectivity is a fact of life on the internet. It is rare that people notice it. If you want better connectivity, get a VM at a local datacenter, setup a VPN server and route all of your traffic through it. Last mile ISP connectivity is traditionally lousy. Try talking to them about it and you will get stone walled. If it is not costing them money, they have no reason to fix it. Heck, I doubt that they would even view 90ms as a problem. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.it is not a matter of connectivity you can have a 1gbps connection if it is censored you aren't free but rather a prisoner of an oppressive regime | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.don't worry we will soon experience this in America with the repeal of net neutrality laws | |
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to ernestsegui
said by ernestsegui:it is not a matter of connectivity you can have a 1gbps connection if it is censored you aren't free but rather a prisoner of an oppressive regime A 200Mbps connection will rarely do 10Mbps inside the country, so it does not matter how fast it is. | |
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to SArcanine
It also is a question of the penalties for doing so.
A country like China could easily decide that in addition to their efforts to block VPNs, mere possession of VPN technology by a Chinese citizen were a capital crime punishable by death, suddenly checking Facebook might become far less appealing. | |
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Re: Chinese govt fooling themselves.That is baseless speculation given that VPN technology is not banned. Theybhave no problems with it being used when the server is within their borders. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fuziwuziNot born yesterday Premium Member join:2005-07-01 Palm Springs, CA Hitron EN2251 Nest H2D
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to SArcanine
I know more than you think. Obviously, you're some savant who can't comprehend anyone not knowing as much as you do about everything in the world. Oh, to be as smart as you! I'm beginning to think you're nothing but a typical internet blowhard. 'bye Felicia. | |
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