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Cleaning Up Tor
Purging child porn from anonymity network
by Karl Bode 10:09AM Monday Mar 12 2007
We've frequently discussed Tor, a networking system that bounces all of your traffic through a myriad of encrypted links (dubbed "onion routers"), with each hop in the chain remaining clueless as to the original source of the data. Designed as a tool for scientists, the politically censored and others, the system has been abused of late by p2p users and child pornographers. Users in our security forum point to this Security Focus report on how security researchers are trying to purge the seedier activity from the Tor network by offering server operators tools that let them track some network data sources.


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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
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join:2001-10-05
united state

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reply to N3OGH

Re: Good

said by N3OGH:

Dude I'm not talking about stuff like that.

I'm talking about clear cut disgusting acts of sexual exploitation.

MOD'S HEADS UP, I'M FLAGGING MY OWN POST IN CASE IT WILL CAUSE TROUBLE.

I'm cleaning this up as best I can so the posts stays..

The one that sticks in my mind the most is a close up of a man's "junk" engaged in a certain act with the "most intimate" of feminine areas.

The female involved appears to be between the ages of 8 and 10. The picture is titled "Daddy's little girl's first time should be with daddy."

OK, defend that....

Edit. Crap you can't flag your own posts. Someone flag this so a mod looks at it ASAP.

Your an idiot. Not a single person in this thread is trying to defend it. Your missing the whole point. The point is that by exposing the data sources, your taking a network whose SOLE PURPOSE IS ANONYMITY and taking the anonymity out of it! Tor doing this will just mean less legitimate security conscious people using tor. Noone is going to use a ANONYMOUS network who now says "Well...some things you shouldn't be anonymous for" How long is it before they decide just what else they deem is bad and want to expost

I mean hell you can abuse a child in your bedroom, why don't we remove your curtains?

I can take a sexually explicit photo of a child with a camera...so lets just install chips in all the cameras that recognize naked children and automatically blur them out...better yet, lets just get rid of cameras all together!

Not to mention this will do nothing to stop child pornography. Fetishes no matter how outright disgusting they are always have followers and those people will always find a way to meet, share, etc, etc.

But, once again, if you think ANYONE in this thread is defending child pornongraphy then you are incapable of reading
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
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join:2001-11-29
Verona, PA

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reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH:

So, if people download photographs that children had to be exploited sexually to produce, you're saying you're OK with that?
No, I don't think anyone is saying that. The problem is you cannot have anonymity and still be able to limit what is shared by the network; it just won't work and defeats the purpose of TOR altogether.

While child pornography is abhorrent you cannot go blaming those with legitimate reasons to use TOR for members who commit crimes using it. If there were a way to track only those sharing child porn without sacrificing the anonymity of everyone else you'd have a point, but the reality is there isn't and there never will be.

Decisions and judgements based on solely on emotions are almost always bad, and that's exactly what you're doing in this case, making a judgement call based on your anger towards those who participate in child porn. What you need to do is take a step back and decide if eliminating everyone's anonymity is ultimately worth it to catch a small group of people, and at what point does trampling everyone else become a bad thing; after all we could nuke New York City and eliminate almost all the child porn industry in New York City at the loss of millions of innocents. I think we can all agree that that would be a bit overkill.
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yabos

join:2003-02-16
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reply to N3OGH
If you can track the origins of the kiddie porn then you can track anything on the network and therefore it's useless for being anonymous. Not that stopping kiddie porn is bad but you really think that it's going to stop people from sharing it by censoring Tor? It's the same with piracy. People will find a way like they always have.

Scifience
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join:2002-07-07
Berea, OH

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What is so hard about this?

Lately in America, at the mere mention of "child pron" and "terrorists," the government and citizens will rally against just about anything. These two things are used as nothing more than excuses for taking away our civil liberties. People will get upset about some invasion of privacy or loss of rights, but all the government needs to do is say that it is for "protecting the children" or "stopping terrorists," and you'll have 90% of the sheeple ready to kiss the feet of the bureaucrats.

I'm certainly not personally endorsing child abuse and kidnapping and the like, but that is by no means a good enough reason to undermine freedom of speech and anonymity. To my way of thinking, there is absolutely *no* reason good enough to do so.

The entire purpose of Tor is to guarantee anonymity for anyone using it. By definition, this includes making terrorists and child pornographers anonymous as well. While we may not find the ideals or values that these groups stand for very nice, it is very hypocritical to be advocating free speech for some groups but not others. Either you have absolute freedom of speech and anonymity, or you don't have either. While blocking kiddie porn may seem to be an admirable goal, blocking any content at all is not. Today, kiddie porn; tomorrow, those who speak out against the government. Any censorship is too much censorship, especially when that censorship is occurring on a network whose entire purpose was to defeat censorship.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
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reply to technick

Re: Good

So, if people download photographs that children had to be exploited sexually to produce, you're saying you're OK with that?

It's one thing to download a movie or a song with with your "anonymity". It's another thing to support the sexual exploitation of children by using your "anonymity" to download pictures of child pornography.

I'm not one of these "won't someone think of the children" people that thinks everything should be censored and that Janet Jackson's boob flopping out at the Super Bowl (Can I say Super Bowl without the express written permission of the NFL? ) But we're not talking about a victimless crime here. Were talking about supporting the "anonymity" of people who take pictures children, some as young toddlers, engaged in actual sex acts with full grown adults.

Sorry fella, no way I can justify that. No rationale you can throw at me, no high minded notion of what someones "privacy" is worth can justify it.

I've had to look at some of this stuff in the course of my work. I've seen some of the most disgusting, reprehensible, and criminal things done to kids to produce this shit. It's seared into my mind, and just the thought of it right now makes me physically ill.

There are, IMHO 2 kinds of people in the world. 1: The sickos that are into this stuff, and get off on it, AND 2: Everyone else.

I'm not directing any kind of attack at you personally, but if you had actually seen some of the shit that's out there, I think you might see things differently. I'm probably one of the few people here than can admit they've seen it and not face prosecution, as it was in the course of conducting an arrest and investigation.

Sorry, but when it comes to kid touchers, I've got ZERO sympathy. I just can't find it...
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