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Clearwire Customers Complain Of Throttling
Users see usage throttled to 256 kbps, consumption limits not clear
by Karl Bode Wednesday 22-Sep-2010 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth · consumers · caps · Clearwire Wireless · Clearwire
While Clearwire's Clear Mobile WiMax often delivers speeds of 8-12 Mbps, several customers have written in to us to note they're having their speeds throttled back substantially. While network management is not unexpected, it appears that Clear isn't being particularly, well, clear about what triggers this throttling. Clearwire's acceptable use policy reads the same as most ISPs' -- giving them the right to throttle users during periods of congestion:

Clearwire uses various techniques such as reducing the data rate of individual bandwidth intensive users whose use is negatively impacting other users. This temporarily limits the amount of bandwidth available to the bandwidth intensive users until the congestion has diminished, at which point Clearwire will endeavor to lift any limits it may have imposed on bandwidth intensive users during the period of congestion. Clearwire may also consider historical usage patterns when temporarily reducing the data rate of bandwidth intensive users during periods of congestion.

Users both in our forums and over at the official Clear forums are running into these limits, though again, Clear isn't getting specific about exactly how much usage is considered excessive, or how far back users should curtail use if they're looking to avoid the throttle monster. We've contacted Clearwire in the hopes of getting more specifics from the company in terms of what they consider excessive use, and/or what triggers "ISDN mode," but have yet to hear back. One user writes in to Broadband Reports:

When I called Clear technical support they said that they are having major bandwidth issues and have decided to throttle connection speeds during peak hours until they can upgrade tower backhaul. Notes on my account say the issue should be resolved by Jan. During the morning and afternoon my download speeds are normally 8-14 Mbps. By 4pm CST download speeds drop to 256K until well after midnight. They offered to suspend my account until January but I declined and instead requested a cancellation. The rep that I spoke with said they have many towers that need to be upgraded and its going to take some time.

The company's AUP only goes so far as to insist that "the continuous unattended streaming, downloading or uploading of videos or other files" is prohibited. While limits on capacity-limited wireless networks aren't shocking per se -- invisible limits with no clear trigger does run in contrast with company statements that their "unrivaled spectrum position" allows them to offer truly unlimited service.

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Unother

join:2005-03-23
West Hartford, CT

What a bummer.

And I was hoping to replace my Other Internet with ClearWire.

--
I'm Kreig Zimmerman. Any questions?
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: What a bummer.

Clear is doing 100mbps backhaul in newer markets, including SF. In early markets, they were doing less than 30Mbps backhaul. Early markets might be seeing the issue. Clear needs to upgrade the backhaul in the older markets.

davoice

join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

Re: What a bummer.

Yeah, this sounds less like a throttling issue and more like a loading issue. The customer can test that by taking their Clear modem to somewhere else in coverage that's at least 5-6 miles away.

}Davoice
LineNoise

join:2006-06-25
Downers Grove, IL
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·AT&T Midwest
What?!? Clearwire has been using microwave backhaul capable of up to 4Gbps Now I know they're aren't getting a full 4Gbps out of it, but if they had to throttle that down to 30megs then they need to get some boys up on the towers and realign the dishes.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: What a bummer.

said by LineNoise:

What?!? Clearwire has been using microwave backhaul capable of up to 4Gbps Now I know they're aren't getting a full 4Gbps out of it, but if they had to throttle that down to 30megs then they need to get some boys up on the towers and realign the dishes.
Got a source on that? According to sources linked in here, Clear is doing 30-100Mbps where needed and is saying they'll need 500 in the near future.

»Clearwire adding backhaul
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: What a bummer.

Good stuff. The way I'm reading it though between all the sources is that Dragonwave _can_ provide up to 1.6Gbps but Clear is using mostly 100Mbps and has the option to go to 1.6Gb when needed. Clear is now talking 500Mbps - that they'd eventually deploy, not the top limit available to them.

Or do you see something buried in those sources that says they are actually procuring 1.6Gbps from Dragonwave?
DataDork
Premium
join:2008-01-13
Los Angeles, CA

Expected..

.. And truly unlimited can mean so many things.

For clearwire to customers, it prob means, unlimited use.. not unlimited max cap at all times.

so if its 256k unlimited and anything in between 15mbit to 128k lol...
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Expected..

Unlimited Use Plans.If you subscribe to a service plan that does not impose limits on the amount of data you may download or upload during a month, you should be aware that such "unlimited" plans are nevertheless subject to the provisions of this AUP. What this means is that all of the provisions described in this AUP, including those that describe how Clearwire may perform reasonable network management such as reducing the data rate of bandwidth intensive users during periods of congestion, will apply to your use of the Service. The term "unlimited" means that we will not place a limit on how much data you upload or download during a month or other particular period, however, it does not mean that we will not take steps to reduce your data rate during periods of congestion or take other actions described in this AUP when your usage is negatively impacting other subscribers to our Service.
In the case of Clear, "unlimited" has a meaning and it's clearly defined in the AUP and pointed out in the TOS.

By the way, my car can use "unlimited" fuel... so long as I keep putting fuel in.. the word unlimited has to be defined, and in this case it is.
gwaltrip

join:2001-12-30
Ogden, UT

Re: Expected..

So I guess this statement under FAQ's means nothing?

Is data usage really unlimited? Are there any additional charges?

Usage is unlimited – believe it. You can upload, download, and surf as much as you want for one low price with any of the CLEAR Internet plans. We don’t slow down your connection – the way some Internet providers do – if we think you are using too much bandwidth. CLEAR Internet is just fast no matter how much you use your Internet – with no additional usage charges.
--
Garrett B. Waltrip, N7QWT DN41ag, TRA #721 L2, garrett@thewaltrips.net, »www.thewaltrips.net, "Real Rockets have tankage!"
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Expected..

Based on what you said, in your post, with out me looking at the actual FAQ page, it does mean something, however, you're taking it wrong and applying what they're saying incorrectly.

I the FAQ, they are not setting any limits per month on every individual based on a collective overall monthly use.. ie: "if we think YOU are using too much".. this is VERY easily read as "we aren't going to slow you down once you hit a set cap at which we determine YOU have used too much and are now going to slow your connection.

What they ARE doing, however, is network management based on given locations AND how much you are using, have used, etc.. and is only temporary during the congestion.. and in case of congestion, multiple users may be slowed down..

I see a distinctive difference between the two...

But as far as "what other providers do" is pre-determine that once you hit a certain amount of data transfer, your speeds will be lowered for the rest of the month AND they don't charge overages... the key issue is "additional charges" which refers to a "cap"... Clear isn't capping anyone at a certain point each much by a pre-defined "too much" data..

tapeloop
Not bad at all, really.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
kudos:1

Re: Expected..

So by not defining the cap explicitly, they can throttle your connection whenever they feel like it?
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Still seeing >10Mbps

I'm still getting >10Mbps most of the time on my fixed clear modem. And just in last couple days, I've seen 10Mbps on my EVO for first time, which usually got 6-8Mbps.

One problem though is that most speedtest apps don't work very well with Clear for some reason. See this...

»Best way to test network performance

In newer markets, Clear has a lot more backhaul, like 100Mbps. Early markets have a lot less so might be seeing oversubscription until upgraded.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

2 edits

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

Just tested over lunch and got 9Mbps on my EVO phone...

»dl.dropbox.com/u/3812896/Pics/sn···3442.png

Edit: Here's an EVO test from yesterday, nearly 10Mbps...

»dl.dropbox.com/u/3812896/Pics/sn···2647.png

redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Suddenlink
Host:
Broadband Tweaks
Suddenlink
ISDN
Fiber Optic
AOL Broadband
100Mbps? Assuming no one gets above 6Mbps then that is only enough for 16 and change.

How many people are using fixed modems on Clear alone? Then add all non-fixed device users, and mobile devices like HTC EVO or Samsung Epic. Then add all Sprint subscribers. They use the same tower. Then add all T-mobile subscribers. They also use the same tower. Or Comcast, or whatever your local ISP or phone company is serving up their rebranded flavor. Best Buy is getting into the action as well.
--
Asus P5WDE-2 Premium | Pentium D 965 Extreme Edition @ 4.0GHz | OCZ Platinum 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-1066 (OCZ2P10664GK) | BFG NVIDIA GeForce GTX 275 OC 896MB PCIe 2.0 | Lite-On SHW-160P6S | 2x160GB Seagate RAID 0
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

Ugh, do I (or someone else) have to re=explain this again?

NO ONE pegs their connection 24x7. Traffic tends to be bursty and even online video and such do not generally max out a user's connection for extended periods of time.

As a result, you might be able to get a contention ratio of 10:1 or more and still get decent speeds. If you were dealing with mobile-only, the contention ratio would be higher, maybe 15:1 or 20:1 even with Evos running around the network.

I see you use Suddenlink. They have at most 152 Mbps of capacity on a given node (4x38). That means that only seven and change folks can have 20 mbps service before things grind to a half...oh wait...
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

What's the typical backhaul of mid-range cable/dsl providers?
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

At this point cablecos' backhaul capacity is greater than their last-mile capacity. So, more than 38 Mbps per node (non-D3) or more than 150 Mbps (for D3).

On the DSL side, it depends on what you're calling mid-sized, but I would estimate that between 45 and 100 Mbps of capacity per 48 ports would be about right, in a more dense setting. In rural cases that number may be a lot less.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

There was an article a while back saying in Clear's newer markets (2010) they are using 30-100Mbps backhaul where needed and is apparently much less than that in early/older Clear markets. They are looking to 500Mbps in the near future. Perhaps older markets are having the issue as I'm in a newer market and still cruising just fine and am a fairly heavy users (10-15 hours of Hulu/Netflix a week and large file downloads).

Then again, a lot of speedtest sites don't work very with Clear for some reason as pointed out in previous post.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by xenophon:

I'm still getting >10Mbps most of the time on my fixed clear modem. And just in last couple days, I've seen 10Mbps on my EVO for first time, which usually got 6-8Mbps.

One problem though is that most speedtest apps don't work very well with Clear for some reason. See this...

»Best way to test network performance

In newer markets, Clear has a lot more backhaul, like 100Mbps. Early markets have a lot less so might be seeing oversubscription until upgraded.
Can't wait for their LTE network that they're testing in Phoenix right now. 20-70 mbps speeds and true 4G latency = replacement for Time Warner Cable and their pathetic DOCSIS 1.1 speeds.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Still seeing >10Mbps

Wimax2 can theoretically do up to 1Gpbs with real world to near 300Mbps. Will be interesting to see if Clear adds or switches to LTE down the road. I could see Sprint switching CDMA spectrum to LTE eventually but hope Clear sticks with WiMAX in the long term.
cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
Cape Girardeau, MO
kudos:5

Underestimating Demand

Same thing Teksavvy is running into with their new cable service. Obviously 30mb of backhaul is cheaper than 100mb of backhaul. They didnt want to overcommit and then not have enough customers. Now they have more customers than they can handle and are stuck with ther pants down with an issue that is going to take time to resolve.

Both a good and bad situation to be in if you are clearwire.
tdouglas22

join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

Re: Underestimating Demand

said by cooldude9919:

Same thing Teksavvy is running into with their new cable service. Obviously 30mb of back-haul is cheaper than 100mb of back-haul. They didn't want to over-commit and then not have enough customers. Now they have more customers than they can handle and are stuck with their pants down with an issue that is going to take time to resolve.

Both a good and bad situation to be in if you are clearwire.
And with them still in the process of rolling out new service as well... this can be an even bigger headache that they anticipated. Hopefully they can get this matter resolved soon enough though.

Cruz1

@sbcglobal.net

thumbs down from:
tapeloop See Profile

The guy is prob a douche ...

While some feel sorry for this guy, most likely he is one of those people causing ALL of us to suffer for his stupidity. Does he REALLY need to have multiple PC's constantly downloading stolen movies, music and porn 24x7 and then afterwards he sifts through it to see what he really needs? Guys like this ruin it for people like me who would like to stream a couple movies on Netflix a day MAX... He is probably an 18 year old douche, plain and simple.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30

Re: The guy is prob a douche ...

Even if he's a glutton to the 20th degree, I think every user of every service has the right to know precisely where the line is drawn....

The very least we can get is ISPs that are totally transparent in their network management practices.
BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
Reviews:
·Integra Telecom
·voip.ms
·T-Mobile US

Re: The guy is prob a douche ...

said by Karl Bode:

The very least we can get is ISPs that are totally transparent in their network management practices.
Exactly. That's all I care about. It allows consumers to make an educated choice (assuming they understand the information provided).

Otherwise it's just a guessing game with each provider.

redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI
No one is doing any such thing. Where did you get that information? What are your sources?
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: The guy is prob a douche ...

said by redxii:

No one is doing any such thing. Where did you get that information? What are your sources?
This is journalism, you don't need facts you just make up stuff as you go along.

Of course it has to be eyebrow raising, like this:
"Latest: WEP is actually more secure then WPA!"

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30

Re: The guy is prob a douche ...

He's talking about a forum poster who was throttled. They're talking about the first poster in this thread. Not sure how your post makes sense.

Toguro

join:2003-10-23
Ottawa, IL

4 minutes of doing any thing.

Your speeds start at 150KB and drop to 70KB then to 15KB.

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19

i just want to

test it. for free if possible.what kind of antenna does a fixed install use?
cramer

join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:5

Re: i just want to

Whatever (crap) is built into the modem. None of them have external antenna. Some *can* if you break them open.

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19

Re: i just want to

thats kinda dumb?! clearwire needs to get their heads examined.
cramer

join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:5

Re: i just want to

You aim the entire modem. Silly, but it's the same tech as a cell phone and you don't aim your cell.

The really stupid thing is it's 10, yes, TEN, megabit ethernet interface. And it has no reset button.
nanaki333

join:2010-08-11
Chantilly, VA

probably has fiber

most of these places have fiber run so it's just a matter of increasing the b/w if they want more backhaul. it's just like having fios 15Mb, if you want the 50Mb down, you just make a phone call.
ernliz

join:2001-11-25
Abilene, TX
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless

Throttling, tower problems, whatever!

Here, north of Abilene, TX, Clear customers experience all sort of varying bandwidth speeds. However, this area is not that heavily trafficked, since it is largely "suburban" or rural. Nevertheless, we see fluctuations from 150 kbps to 2.1 Mbps on an almost daily basis. Times of day don't matter. The local Clear office personnel are clueless (about anything) and Clear customer support can't issue a solution or even helpful comment. Throttling "may" be involved here to compensate for heavier use on other towers within Abilene and the colleges. It's ...... possible!

Clever_Proxy
Premium
join:2004-05-14
Chicago, IL
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless

Re: Throttling, tower problems, whatever!

Random Test in Tinley Park, IL on my 4G USB modem while eating my fine Panda Express.





Granted, when I first started using Clear, it was not this good. Chicago seems to be doing MUCH better than a lot of other markets. These results are pretty darn typical anywhere in the area for me. Occasionally I'll run into some very poor performance areas, but it's pretty rare now. Sucks to hear about Abilene. There's only a handful of towers out there and performance is crap. I'd say give it time. Hopefully it will get better.

Do I think Clear is throttling? Yup, sure do. If I don't use my USB modem for a while, I'll do a 100 MB download test and the first 10 MB will download at over 1200KBps. After that, it's a solid 700 - 750 KBps. (Notice the capital B folks.)
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

where is your God now?

Where is your God now Clearwire shills? I see none of you chirping that Clearwire has over 100MHZ of spectrum so they will "never" cap or throttle.

WiMAX is no different than LTE. The whole world will use LTE, since the whole world already uses GSM and CDMA's manufacturer told CDMA operators to goto LTE. WiMAX will become a footnote one day in history like BPL or HiperLAN. Since Clear already has an userbase of WiMAX clients, they will just run LTE with a small WiMAX channel, after 5-10 years they will just announce they are terminating the WiMAX channel and give the remaining users a $100 coupon for a new Clear branded LTE aircard.
az00935
Premium
join:2010-09-09
Reviews:
·CableOne

Voice traffic trumps data traffic

The time of day is suspicious. Remember, cell towers handle both voice and data, and which do you think gets prioritized? I lived in a rural area, that had one Verizon cell tower in range; other towers were 15 to 20 miles away, which did work for old AMPS service. When all the others in the community discovered Verizon had the only service around, 3G data service went kaput (literally to 0 for minutes at a time) from 4 pm to past 10 pm. I have a friend that works in the switching office, and voice traffic ate up all the channels. This is a dirty little secret that the wireless companies won't tell you; they want you to think they have the "fastest 3G service".
cramer

join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:5
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast

1 edit

Re: Voice traffic trumps data traffic

Exactly. This is the entire problem with Clear. The radio has a very finite amount of bandwidth shared with an uncontrollable number of devices. (most will be mobile.)

I borrowed a modem from a friend who's canceling service at the end of the month because it sucked. (cheap is one thing. doesn't work is something else.) It works much better at my house -- the best of any place yet tested. At his house, it's very unstable and often less than 1Mbps. The closest tower (1.03km) is behind too much dirt. The best line of sight tower is just over a mile away. Both towers are in highly populated areas, so very likely highly congested. My house is 963m (clear line of sight) from a nearly unused tower, and it still varies from 3-6Mbps down. (it'll spike to 2Mbps up, but then gets chopped to 1M, which is the provisioned rate.)

[Well aimed | Poorly aimed]

[Edit: In Raleigh, NC with an older CPEi 150. And to be fair, his house is on the very edge of Clear's "good" green.]
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH
said by az00935:

Remember, cell towers handle both voice and data, and which do you think gets prioritized?
Are you talking about 3G or 4G in the case of Clearwire? If you are referring to 4G, then I would need to know if the 4G stations have separate backhaul from existing 3G towers, or if they just added 4G stations to existing 3G towers, sharing the combined backhaul available to both?

If the 4G stations have separate backhaul, then saying voice is taking up most of the available bandwidth would not be an argument.

But again, I don't know how they have things set up.
az00935
Premium
join:2010-09-09
Reviews:
·CableOne

Re: Voice traffic trumps data traffic

Good Wikipedia article on "mobile braodband"

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_broadband

It states that LTE / WiMax carry voice as VOIP, so they are strictly data-based systems. But, what you want to bet that at first, no backhaul upgrades are made? You can load all the traffic on existing microwave / fiber connections and they work (sort of).

My Company was so remote that for years (right through the 90's) we ran everything (voice and a remote data center) over the Company microwave system - no fiber as about 40 miles from the edge of the biggest town.

Adding new backhaul capacity for a microwave system is not simple, as more bandwidth or higher power need to be docketed by the FCC.

dspam2010

@clearwire-wmx.net

Clear in Raleigh/Durham NC

They have oversold in a big way in all areas of Durham or else throttle everyone. Only once was I able to obtain full speed and that was the day of purchase. I have tried various locations in Durham but get the same less than 1M up and down no matter what type of system is used. They don't have a network based speed test server and simply tell users to try an outside 3rd party. That in itself is rather lame. Not happy with Clear in Durham.
cramer

join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:5

Re: Clear in Raleigh/Durham NC

Nah. That just means they're lazy. At the last ISP I worked, our idea of a speedtest was a big file on an ftp server.

asdfdfdfdfdf

@myvzw.com

It doesn't seem to me that clearwire is trying to be evasive

for some sleazy reason.
They can't give a clear definition of where the line is drawn because congestion is not perfectly predictable and it changes with time.

It looks as if they are working to get backhaul up to snuff and, in the meantime, are throttling people to deal with congestion. I don't see where this is targeted at specific people who are crossing some invisible cap.

If they were simply determined to ignore backhaul problems and intended to just neuter people's service permanently then criticism would be more justified but it doesn't look like that is the case. Looks more like growing pains to me.

powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Lenexa, KS

This is why I went with Sprint.

For 4G, no caps or throttling. 54.99$ a month for 8/1Mbps. I have yet to see it slower than that here. Not to mention i'm on Sprints Sprintlink backbone.

SPolk

@cox.net

Re: This is why I went with Sprint.

I don't know if you realize but Sprints 4G is all off of Clears network. Sprint 4G = Clear.
Qrusher

join:2002-09-26
Farmersville, CA

Started Out good...

I'm near Visalia,CA and for the first few days after i got the upgraded modem it was fast. 600k/sec all day, but that didnt last.
Within a couple weeks it just got slower. Now i'm lucky to get 100-200k/sec. It also losses the signal a lot. One time it was out for almost a week.

If there was anything else out here i would drop clear in a second. But it's either this or dialup

SysOp

join:2001-04-18
Douglasville, GA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·T-Mobile US
·Clear Wireless
·Comcast

"Managed" aka throttled @ 256kbps downlink only 9 gigs usage



Give me at least 100 gigs of usage a month!

If not, I am going to Comcast to get 250 gigs of usage for $59.99 (plus tax, modem, fees)

Comcast, a much better deal than the all new, New Clear Limited Unlimited plans.

rex22

@clearwire-wmx.net

worst isp ever!

They constantly throttle my connection and everyone else. If it was gonna be this slow and rigged then why dont you advertise that it is dialup. Cant download, stream, or play games. The 2 year contract they stick you with is the tip of the iceberg. I will NEVER, ever recommend clearwire to anyone that i know. It's by far the worst isp I have ever used.


EddieW

@clearwire-wmx.net

Throttling in error?

I'm pretty confused about this - I just spent a while on the phone with someone who claimed that I was throttled for usage at 7:30 am, while no one in my house was using the internet. My router is secured with wpa2 and I looked through the traffic log on the router and found that I have only 50mb of usage this entire day (so I doubt that someone hacked my router) and there's no odd dhcp licenses. Is anyone else getting throttled like this? I think that they have something wrong with their system. There's no possible place for the traffic to come from. I've been getting throttled for the last 2-3 days!!!
floydb1982

join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Comcast

A Clear tech support told me this

Your question is: I know that Clear is throttling. Is Clear throttling in my area?

Guy Oni: Hi Bryant! I'll be happy to help you today with your speed related questions.

Guy Oni: Bryant why do you ask about speed management, are you experiencing slow speeds?

Bryant: Well not really. I've read where Clear is throttling back people's connection's.

Bryant: I just want to know if that is or will be happening in my area.

Guy Oni: I see, well to be clear we are not cutting peoples speeds back at all. We do have an acceptable use policy in which bandwidth can be managed during periods of network congestion or if one customer is impacting others with their usage though. There are rumors of speed capping on the forums but they are mistaken.

Bryant: Oh okay.

Bryant: So I have nothing to be worried about?

Guy Oni: Correct Bryant, standard internet usage would not be in issue with the acceptable use policy.

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