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Clearwire Finally Starts Clarifying Throttling
Implemented new per tower, rolling throttling system

For weeks we've reported how many Clearwire customers are seeing their service throttled back to speeds around 256 kbps, without Clearwire being clear about how, why or when this occurs. Customers have been told different things depending on who they talk to at the company, which has repeatedly encouraged users to fully utilize the "unlimited" service. Our recent conversations with Clearwire haven't clarified things much, the company simply saying they take a "hands off" approach to managing the network.

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"If we experience network congestion, we are committed to dealing with everyone fairly and we do not target specific applications," company spokesman Mike DiGioia tells Broadband Reports. "The heaviest of users may give up a small amount of bandwidth so that everybody has a good experience."

In follow up conversations we've tried to get Clearwire to be more specific, but haven't had a lot of luck.

"Regarding the system, during September we made some enhancements to the customer experience optimization system that we utilize across our networks," confirms DiGioia. "We implemented this system to help ensure that our customers continue to get the level of service they expect from us as we grow, and as data consumption continues to expand," he says. "The system was designed with a singular purpose: to provide the maximum number of customers the maximum amount of bandwidth, in the times when they demand it most."

That still doesn't explain what specifically causes the throttling, how long customers are throttled, and to what speed they're throttle back to. But an employee posting to the Clear forums offers up substantially more detail, noting that the throttling is imposed on a per tower and rolling invisible quota basis:

quote:
This system is based on a tower's current utilization, GB's downloaded in the past 7 days and current download speeds in the past 15 minutes. it recalculates your max D/L speed every 15 minutes based on these factors. All in there are 48 buckets of max D/L speeds based on these factors.
According to the post (which still fails to give users hard usage lines to avoid), the system is "theoretically" only supposed to throttle users for fifteen minute increments, but Clearwire confirms "a very small percentage of users are being set at very low D/L speeds for hours at a time." Clearwire says they're collecting data on the system and will make adjustments so that throttled user connections will "become more usable."

Hopefully they'll take some time to adjust the way they inform consumers as well. While some level of congestion management on a wireless network is expected, consumers have a right to know precisely what kind of connection they're paying for. That said, it sounds like even Clearwire doesn't know when their throttling system will kick in, given some of their towers likely struggle with backhaul capacity.
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swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Just two months ago...

A matter of a couple of months ago there was stories here where Clear said they want users to use it to there full advantage, no caps, no restrictions, etc....Now this? What did they expect would happen? You don't go to a fat camp and offer all you can eat cake and limit it to one or two slices after you have everyone eating.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Just two months ago...

You must live or work near an underutilized tower or tough luck baby!! If the tower near your most frequent usage is over-committed then you will never get near the speeds their 4G service promises.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

that and until they put some more backhaul to that tower. but all services are like that.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Just two months ago...

said by hottboiinnc4:

that and until they put some more backhaul to that tower. but all services are like that.
That seems to be the biggest problem in the wireless industry. Not enough backhaul to their towers to handle the explosion in data usage. And that is all companies - not just Clearwire.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

true. but my comment was actually about ALL providers. Not just wireless. hardwire/landline access is the same way. Any HSI Product can have this issue. DSL due to the amount of people compared to the ATM line that goes to the actual Internet, cable depends on the bandwidth to the node and at the CMTS, etc.

People don't seem to get that though. They just want something always to bitch about and that's basically what this website has become. A website to bitch about what people want and think they deserve; if not, its all hell on here as far as people bitching about it.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

I'm pretty sure you arent forced to come here and read and/or post.

But maybe I am wrong......
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

true. but my comment was actually about ALL providers. Not just wireless. hardwire/landline access is the same way. Any HSI Product can have this issue. DSL due to the amount of people compared to the ATM line that goes to the actual Internet, cable depends on the bandwidth to the node and at the CMTS, etc.

People don't seem to get that though. They just want something always to bitch about and that's basically what this website has become. A website to bitch about what people want and think they deserve; if not, its all hell on here as far as people bitching about it.
Would you stop whining about other people? Get off your friggin' high horse already.

iLive4Fusion
Premium Member
join:2006-07-13

iLive4Fusion to hottboiinnc4

Premium Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

true. but my comment was actually about ALL providers. Not just wireless. hardwire/landline access is the same way. Any HSI Product can have this issue. DSL due to the amount of people compared to the ATM line that goes to the actual Internet, cable depends on the bandwidth to the node and at the CMTS, etc.

People don't seem to get that though. They just want something always to bitch about and that's basically what this website has become. A website to bitch about what people want and think they deserve; if not, its all hell on here as far as people bitching about it.
What happened to 2.5ghz is so much better than LTE ever will and WiMax is tha bomb because it will never run out of capacity. Only 1 million user's and they are having problem's. They make AT&T look fantastic.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Clear's towers are close enough to each other that they can use gigabit backhauls from E-Band and other providers to push some serious bandwidth over those links. The issue is

1) Getting those links online
2) Getting enough bandwidth from the local hub to serve customers in the area

The second issue might be harder to deal with if plant upgrades need to be completed for cpacity increases, since that requires putting fiber in the ground. There's also the issue of not having enough base stations at the top of the tower, limiting last-mile bandwidth. That's under Clear's control though, so it may be more easily fixable.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to swintec

Member

to swintec
said by swintec:

A matter of a couple of months ago there was stories here where Clear said they want users to use it to there full advantage, no caps, no restrictions, etc....Now this? What did they expect would happen? You don't go to a fat camp and offer all you can eat cake and limit it to one or two slices after you have everyone eating.
Yeah, what happened to Clear's "100s of MHZ of spectrum" that all the shills were raving about?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

that is putting out to the EU. NOT in terms of what is being used for backhaul. But while we're on it; where is VZ and their LTE? OH! Still in the lab! OOPS!
jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Greensboro, NC

jkeelsnc

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

I agree. Who knows if LTE will even become what VZ or even ATT promise. 3g, 4g, etc are "good" but they cannot provide the kind of service that a cable, DSL, or FTTC connection can. Backhaul is another thing. Of course they are going to oversubscribe service to a point. But its another thing when it is done with abandon and then service (and speeds) suffer. I will give AT&T credit at least on their DSL service. It rarely slows down on me even in the evenings.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

that is putting out to the EU. NOT in terms of what is being used for backhaul. But while we're on it; where is VZ and their LTE? OH! Still in the lab! OOPS!
So why is Clear capping and throttling if they have 100 mhz of spectrum but are using a fraction of it?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

because like all carriers they don't have the bandwidth going to the towers. Smart reason eh? Next time think?
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

1 edit

patcat88

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

said by hottboiinnc4:

because like all carriers they don't have the bandwidth going to the towers. Smart reason eh? Next time think?
You really think Clear has copper T1s feeding the towers? Come on.
patcat88

patcat88 to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

that is putting out to the EU. NOT in terms of what is being used for backhaul. But while we're on it; where is VZ and their LTE? OH! Still in the lab! OOPS!
You can buy LTE from MetroPCS today, just have your credit card ready.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

that is pre-LTE as everyone says about Clear. But otherwise its still in the lab as nobody is using it but OOOOO! MetroPCS.

iLive4Fusion
Premium Member
join:2006-07-13

iLive4Fusion

Premium Member

Re: Just two months ago...

said by hottboiinnc4:

that is pre-LTE as everyone says about Clear. But otherwise its still in the lab as nobody is using it but OOOOO! MetroPCS.
Verizon is ready to launch their's, and right off the bat it will be better than Clear's.
iLive4Fusion

iLive4Fusion to hottboiinnc4

Premium Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

that is putting out to the EU. NOT in terms of what is being used for backhaul. But while we're on it; where is VZ and their LTE? OH! Still in the lab! OOPS!
For real, LTE has been out of the lab for a while now.
DarnellP
join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV

DarnellP to patcat88

Member

to patcat88
nothing happened to it. They're just not using a majority of it at the moment.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to patcat88

Member

to patcat88
They have 100MHz of spectrum. I believe they're using 40MHz on a given tower. That actually should be plenty...
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

said by iansltx:

They have 100MHz of spectrum. I believe they're using 40MHz on a given tower. That actually should be plenty...
So why is Clear throttling then?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

again read above.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to patcat88

Premium Member

to patcat88
said by patcat88:
said by iansltx:

They have 100MHz of spectrum. I believe they're using 40MHz on a given tower. That actually should be plenty...
So why is Clear throttling then?
more profit if you aren't beefing up your network.

michieru
Premium Member
join:2009-07-25
Denver, CO

1 recommendation

michieru to swintec

Premium Member

to swintec
It's called QOS, in order for everyone to have a certain level of service everyone across the network will be be reduced in speed. As more backhaul is provided the speeds will increase to maximize tower utilization. MetroPCS had the same issue when they started offering unlimited voice in Miami, FL. The towers where over their original capacity and dropped calls and QOS had gone out the window, as capacity was increased so was the overall end user experience was better.

It took MetroPCS over a year to get the capacities issues resolved, and even then in more dense area's they still have some capacity issues. QOS will suffer as the demand is greater than the supply, but as long as you can see those issues resolved and their coverage increasing, you can tell whether or not a company is cashing in or actually expanding their reach and coverage.
jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Greensboro, NC

jkeelsnc to swintec

Member

to swintec
Its wireless. I suspect this will always be an issue with wireless service. I don't think you can expect to have a long line buffet table of internet service on a wireless connection. Especially if you live in a large city. The wireless spectrum available to most providers simply will not meet the piggish demands of users who are expecting a real replacement for cable or dsl service.

mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI

mmainprize

Member

Re: Just two months ago...

You are so correct.

Wireless phone service was to be for small short term bursts of data, for many users. It has become not only for phone and e-mail or text, but for watching TV, Surfing the internet, Maps and GPS data, Music, Shopping lists and coupons, Near by shopping and dinning and you name it.

No one though you would do these things on a small phone screen, but the phone and screens have gotten better.

Also you have many user getting on these unlimited plans and using the phones unlimited wireless package to drive there home networks internet usage. This can use much more data then can be used by the phone it self as the user interface is much better and you can have many PC's share the connection.

So in the end you will see all wireless package either have a Cap or the network will use QOS/network management to throttle all users to slower speeds. They will have no other choice.
nanaki333
join:2010-08-11
Chantilly, VA

nanaki333

Member

guess they weren't ready

for such a large customer base so fast. they tout it being 4G and want all carriers to use them, but this is very poor publicity for them to say the least.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: guess they weren't ready

all companies have growing pains. VZ will have issues as well. The same as T did and does with iPhone.
jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Greensboro, NC

jkeelsnc

Member

Re: guess they weren't ready

I agree. If VZ had the Iphone now I suspect their own 3g network would become quickly overburdened. In the city where I live now their 3g network sucks anyway which is why I don't use it.
Qrusher
join:2002-09-26
Farmersville, CA

Qrusher

Member

8 gig/month cap

Thats what i've been hearing. That is unacceptable. How can that be heavy usage? lol I could get more than that on dialup. They say its supposed to recalculate every 15 mins, but i've gone days stuck at .25mbps. And the only time it would sometimes come off is after 2am.

I'm not sure what they expected when they upgraded to 4g. When i started getting 500k/sec, i knew it was too good to be true. I wouldnt mind a 250gig cap. Hell, i've never come close to that with Clearwire before. I usually only hit 50gig or so. But cant get near that now.

Toguro
join:2003-10-23
Rockford, IL

Toguro

Member

Re: 8 gig/month cap

The cap comes off at 12am in the Chicago area. I do about 40gigs a month and was led to believe that was fine.
dellis9
join:2002-09-22
Des Plaines, IL

dellis9

Member

Re: 8 gig/month cap

Not always. I get home from work at around 1:30-2:00am, and I've still been throttled. Even after unplugging the modem for a few minutes.

SysOp
join:2001-04-18
Atlanta, GA

3 edits

1 recommendation

SysOp

Member

Former clear customer

It's too little, too late

After dealing with misinformation over and over again from their CSRs when I was hit by the throttle monster for using an avg of 50 gigs a month, the answer became clear to me.

I needed another ISP.

•••••

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb

Member

They won't answer this correctly

If Clearwire comes out and says what the truth is they will get hit with lawsuits that they will lose. They are in a pickle right now and its said they didnt see it coming.

Heres a question. I have Sprint 4G mobile broadband, in 4G areas am I going to start seeing throttling there too?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: They won't answer this correctly

if those towers are fulled and over used then yes you will. Why should one customer's not see it and the others see the throtting?
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Zombie Clearwire

Its like they were infected people. For first few hours they are very good to your ("unlimited", "no caps", even encourage to use it over your cable/dsl (bastards)) but then once your exceed their expectations they turn into zombies and eat your alive until your contract runs out (if you were not smart enough to sign it).

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan

redxii

Mod

The cap is less than 500MB a day

Stay below 500MB every day to avoid being throttled for the millennium
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: The cap is less than 500MB a day

and still have a 5gig per month usage cap.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon to redxii

Member

to redxii
I'm a pretty heavy Clear user, probably a GB or so on most days and haven't seen any signs of throttling. My market is a newer market though with much more backhaul than earlier markets. A lot of the complaints seem to be coming from early Clear markets when they rolled out with less backhaul.

I have no worries until I actually see the issue. Is easy enough to switch back to TWC if need be.

ajdflakl
@omcastbusiness.net

ajdflakl

Anon

Really?

I do believe it is not on the transfered which many of you keep getting confused about. It is based on the throughput (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throughput) in case you need a reminder. Typical standards of calculating your expected usage based on throughput is a great concept. More importantly it comes down to »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_slot maybe if you take a look you can figure it out. So it could be perfectly acceptable to be at .25Mbps depending on the number of people on the tower at the time.

IMHO your getting what you pay for... if you want better and feel you deserve better let me know how your network turns out with investing that $50/mo. I'm sure you'll get pretty far.....
tdouglas22
join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

tdouglas22

Member

Here's a suggestion....

It sounds like Clear is just trying to manage this to the best of their ability.. so let's put the pitch forks down and stop trying to tear them down. Stop asking for a definite cap because right now they don't have it and you don't want it. They still have a long way to go so give them time. I hate to use a cliche' but her, Rome wasn't built in a day.

•••
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

1 edit

qworster

Member

I won't be getting Clear then.

I was going to get Clear to stream to my AM transmitter site for a backup path from my studio. If they were to throttle me, the path would be useless, so no Clear for me.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: I won't be getting Clear then.

It's worth trying because most people aren't throttled. You are also in a newer market, which likely has more backhaul than early Clear markets.

I haven't seen any signs of throttling (in a newer market). Is nice to have a 'transportable' modem that I can take around town (sometimes to a friend's house who has no internet), though I can also tether on my EVO.

If it doesn't work for you in the long run, then go back to a landline ISP. I'd still recommend Clear even if they had specific throttling. Just don't get a contract.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

1 edit

battleop

Member

Pot, Kettle, Black....

"without Clearwire being clear about how, why or when this occurs."

You mean kind of like the rules for posting on these forums?

derp_
@cnc.net

derp_

Anon

Clear Professional

Does anyone know if they are throttling their Clear Professional clients, or is it just the cheap Home/consumer On-The-Go plans?

JBman2
@clearwire-wmx.net

JBman2

Anon

Re: Clear Professional

said by derp_ :

Does anyone know if they are throttling their Clear Professional clients, or is it just the cheap Home/consumer On-The-Go plans?
I actually called today and was informed that the Professional/Business plans are subject to the same throttling. She used different marketing jargon of course to try and convince me that getting screwed over was normal. I work from home and can't deal with this. I ordered AT&T today and it will be active tomorrow.
Micmel
join:2010-04-16
Charlotte, NC

Micmel

Member

sofukingcapped

Finally was told it is what it is, dont like it cancel... and no refund.

20kbps is not highspeed my ass, 3G is way faster than that snake oil they sell.... hope to watch CLEAR fall on it's face

rcrcr123
@rr.com

rcrcr123

Anon

clwr says suck it

clearwire never has and never will care about customer service. I worked as a sales rep a few years back and we were encouraged to find low income areas to "throttle" the product down people's throats. reps consistently were encouraged in the face of sales goals to convince people that their service was oh so fast all the while they were just barely on the fringe of a tower's service.
at the time of the layoffs (which i don't think were publicized) they basically said what an inconvenience you customers were since they'd have to convert you all over to wimax someday, so they no longer needed us lol.

whorockshot

Anon

Not the real issue

10/10

There seems to be a Clear disconnect.

1. Clear has marketed their services as unlimited data and prices are based on connection speeds 1.5, 6, and up to 15mps as there unlimited. Yes, there are going to be issues about tower traffic at times and not having the maximum of your plan should be expected.
2. Yes, their TOS gives them the authority to limit users bandwidth and sites the type of use that can be the reason to impose limits on their customers legally.
3. Clear does have available all this information if a consumer wishes to do the research

The service agreement and Terms Of Service are dismissed as just the usual stuff when you uses their own web site to pick the best service for you tool. »www.clear.com/shop/quickshop . It also make the statement there are no DATA limits!!!!!!!

People have spent hundreds of dollars to receive Clear service & equipment refunds are hard to get and are not handled as promised when starting the service.

Clear has over the last 72 hours archived all but 15 of the last post on a running link with a support person that had over 360 back and forth posts in a 6 day period about 'throttling' & acceptable use Which in effect removes any proof of the statements regarding data limits and the entire network managing software issue. »forums.clear.com/clearco ··· sfn=true a new extended thread is here because of lost information and the desire to continue the conversation and has had no company postings to date. »forums.clear.com/clearco ··· _use_pt2

Clear is no longer a part of GETSATISFIED limiting log in's to current customers and allowing the shut out many the most knowable posters many of which are still clear customers.

There is Clearly a massive attempt at damage control and cover up now in place.