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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Lawyers win, customers lose. As with ALL class action suits, the lawyers are the only ones that win. Yeah! Stupid lawyers.
Though technically, the lawsuits against Sprint and Verizon originated thanks to tough consumer protection laws in Minnesota, and resulted not only in pro-rated ETFs, but thirty day money back guarantees as well as carriers no longer being able to extend the contracts silently every time a customer changed absolutely anything about their plan.
But yeah, other than that, stupid lawyers, useless lawsuits, etc. | |
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Brownstripe Cust
@microsoft.com
| Re: Lawyers win, customers lose. Wow must be nice to feel like others should pay for service not received. You pretend like you know who is in the wrong but that's what our courts do. I have heard many complaints about Clearwire which is why I don't use them. Your right to come on this board and say stupid stuff was not given to you, it was demanded by citizens of this country and it was held up in the courts. Not a lawyer but I have needed them to get several companies to stop billing me for services not provided. If only one of you two would just pay my bills, I wouldn't need lawyers either. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract Aside from Clearwire not fullfiling the terms of the contract and crappy service, what grounds are people suing over for the EFT?
If you sign the contract, and YOU chose to move, how is that Clearwire's fault? I'm presuming the EFT is to recoup the price of acquisition, equipment costs, and/or promotional rates. If you leave by your own choice, Clearwire still had those costs that may not have been recouped.
Yes it is nice that other companies void the contract if you move. And apparently that's nice for other companies. But don't bitch and moan that it's unfair that you are stuck with a bill for something you agreed to. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
 ·VOIPo
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract Can't provide the service, then don't sell the service. That logic goes both ways.
The grounds for suing over the ETF is that if Clearwire provides only sub-standard service then they aren't living up to their end of the deal...Clearwire, with an unusuable product is in breech of contract, voiding it. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract said by Bit  :The grounds for suing over the ETF is that if Clearwire provides only sub-standard service then they aren't living up to their end of the deal...Clearwire, with an unusuable product is in breech of contract, voiding it. If you reread my first sentence, I said aside from Clearwire not fullfilling the terms of the contract and crappy service. I agree that if they can't provide the service then there is a problem.
I did not read all 77 pages of the complaint. I have better things to do. But I did skim a few pages. That, plus Karl's summary mention one of the things that they were complaining about was that the contract wasn't being voided when people were moving to a non-covered area. To me, that isn't a reason that the provider legally should have to void the contract over. If they want to, great. But not legally forced to do. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
| Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract I would agree. If they're moving, that is not Clearwire's fault and they should get the ETF. The only justification for Clearwire not getting the ETF is if Clearwire didn't live up to their end of the deal to provide decent service or obviously if the ETF wasn't in the agreement the subscribers agreed to (but I can't see that being possible).
If they're able to get out of the ETF for simply moving, what's next, building leases don't matter? "Hey I had to move". | |
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Brownstripe Cust
@microsoft.com | Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract If Clearwire provided good service, they wouldn't need ETFs. ETFs are there to screw the customer and protect companies which can't or don't fullfil their end of the contract. It's a race to the bottom in customer service these days. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract Not necessarily. Installation, equipment and setup can be expensive so the ETF insures the company recoups those costs in the even the customer cancels before those costs can be recouped through the ongoing monthly fee.
Even the best companies have churn. | |
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odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA | Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract Then should not the ETF be prorated?
What installation and set up costs did ClearWire absorb?
Perhaps the modem? That is always returnable. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
| Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract The used modem isn't worth as much as a new modem and there is the cost of setting up the account and coming out for the install.
Again, anyone who doesn't think the ETF is fair, shouldn't have signed the contract. Now if the service sucked, that is a different matter..then it's a case of Clearwire not delivering their end of the deal. | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| said by cdru :But don't bitch and moan that it's unfair that you are stuck with a bill for something you agreed to. There wouldn't be so much bitching and moaning if the companies didn't write such one-sided contracts. They tend to reserve the right to change the terms of the contract so why shouldn't consumers also be allowed to. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract Your choice is not to sign it. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by Sammer :There wouldn't be so much bitching and moaning if the companies didn't write such one-sided contracts. And yet I've never seen a one-sided contract that didn't require both parties signing/agreeing to it.
They tend to reserve the right to change the terms of the contract so why shouldn't consumers also be allowed to. If they change the terms of the legal contract, you have the right to reject them. Of course if you reject them, you also give up the service. From Clearwires very own Terms of Service (emphasis added):
quote:
1. Agreement Governing Use of Service. The current version of this Agreement (including the Service Plans) can be found at www.clearwire.com/company/legal/terms.htm. Clearwire may change this Agreement or the Service from time to time by sending you an email notification to the email address associated with your account, or announcing the Service changes in the "Service Announcements" section of Clearwire's website: »www.clearwire.com/company/legal/···ents.htm. Such changes will become effective once you have been notified; afterwards, and your continued use of the Service or Equipment will constitute your acceptance of any such changes. However, if you do not wish to continue Service after a change that is materially disadvantageous to you, you may terminate this Agreement by providing written notice to Clearwire within twenty (20) days of the effective date of the modification, and you will not be charged any Early Termination Fee(as described below)...
Cellular service has the same provisions usually any many people have gotten out of contracts they no longer want when a carrier raises fees, even for almost trivial things like directory assistance charges that most people never even use. | |
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join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| Re: Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract said by cdru :If they change the terms of the legal contract, you have the right to reject them. Of course if you reject them, you also give up the service. That's the problem when there is a lack of real competition. I suppose you could give up indoor plumbing and live in a cave but I'm not suggesting you do so. | |
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odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA | There would be less bitching and moaning if the service were worth a damn. | |
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| bshelly
Premium
join:2002-02-17
Schaumburg, IL
clubs:
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
1 edit | Re: it's okay The old pre-WiMax Clearwire equipment is different, you are getting fixed wireless installed at the location for which the contract is signed. There are equipment and installation costs that Clearwire can't just absorb if a customer does not fulfill their contractual obligation. With the fixed pre-WiMax service, Clearwire has every right to charge and NOT waive ETF's. I realize things do come up and people are forced to move, but how is that Clearwire's fault? It's not. The customer signs the contract committing to a set term and must pay up if they can't fulfill it.
Clearwire can justify the ETF since they probably have to pay employees or contractors to come out and uninstall the fixed wireless equipment when someone breaks their contract. That costs $$$. | |
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| | | bshelly
Premium
join:2002-02-17
Schaumburg, IL
clubs:
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: it's okay If they cannot provide the service that was specified in the contract, then they should consider letting customers OOC for a reduced ETF as long as they get their equipment back. I'm not against working with the customer, especially if they aren't receiving the service at a level that was sold to them. That's different than just up and moving and expecting them to waive the ETF. The big cell phone companies can afford to do that, but not a much smaller company like Clearwire. | |
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| DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA
| So you are saying contract law should be discarded because it's not convenient to certain customers? If Clearwire holds up their end, why should they take the hit because a customer wants to break a contract they entered into willingly?
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Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net | |
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| | DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | Re: it's okay If the contract is too stiff, then the consumer should not have signed it in the first place. Yes, you should have to pay "extra" if you move to an unforeseen issue; paying the ETF is what you agreed to do after all. An ETF is not about punishment but about recouping certain costs, although refusing to prorate is probably used primarily as a way to prevent churn.
Contract law is pretty specific. Under which part of the law do you think the contract should me cancelled? (Hint: "mitigating circumstances" is not a legitimate reason) »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_l···contract
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Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net | |
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| | DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA
| Re: it's okay When a company is sued it is done within the confines of contract law.
Again, under what part of contract law do you think applies if one wishes to cancel because they move? What law gives someone the right to break a contract in this situation?
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Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net | |
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Hpower
Roflmao
join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
1 edit | lol Yea I got a feeling the lawyers are going to win this one. Let's see what happens.
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The Internet is about to go down....it is actually. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
| ETF It's one thing if you cancel for moving or you simply don't want the service, then I can see having to pay the agreed to ETF. But if the service sucked ass forcing you to go to another carrier then Clearwire is in breech of their agreement to provide the service and misrepresenting the service.
My DS1 ETF is $2000 with Megapath and if I cancelled as a result of substandard service I would certainly tell Megapath to pound sand and litigate if they think they'd get that ETF from me. | |
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| bshelly
Premium
join:2002-02-17
Schaumburg, IL
clubs:
1 edit | Re: ETF Bit, agreed. Perhaps affected customers could try working with the BBB or contact the State's Attorney General to try and find a resolution to the problem. Much better than suing which will not get customers anything worthwhile in the long run. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: ETF I don't know about these guys, but in my experience people don't just go hire lawyers at the drop of a hat. It's usually after they've given up trying to be reasonable or after they're sued (or have debt collectors after them) for the ETF. | |
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liberty2000
join:2009-04-24
Raleigh, NC | re I have Clearwire, and they suck. they give the customer a poor user experience. The customer loses either way, if you keep the service or drop it. we lose. | |
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clrwr1
@clearwire-dns.net
| Re: re Hi, liberty2000
This is Kevin with Clearwire support. I'm sorry to hear that you're not satisfied with your Clearwire service. I'd be more than happy to assist in resolving any issues that you're having. I wouldn't ask you to post any account information in a public forum, so please feel free to contact me at clrwr1@gmail.com and I will get back to your shortly.
Thanks for the feedback and have a great day!
Kevin | |
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odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| Contracts I believe contract law is paramount to the smooth functioning of our society.
ClearWire fails to deliver an acceptable level of service. Lag storms of 500 to 1200 milliseconds for many hours, throughout the day, every day. Ten per cent packet loss is not uncommon. IMAP connections time-out, packets simply disappear. HULU videos are only bearable between 02:00 and 04:30. A simple game such as BZFlag is unplayable through out the day and evening. VOIP is hit or miss.
I believe in contract law; therefore, with out fail and in good time I remit every month, the sum of forty-five dollars.
I fulfill my portion of our agreement. Does ClearWire?
I am fortunate, Verizon's FIOS and Comcast are both present in my home.
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michieru
@rr.com
| Re: Contracts My question is why do you continue to pay for a service when Clearwire is not providing the service you originally signed up for?
This is the reason for that 20-day window to test out the service, any changes to your plan/service/hardware under law should nullify your current contract and you must be indicated of those changes. You are also given the opportunity to cancel if you do not agree with those changes stated.
I don't see why would Clearwire give an issue about moving since the service is wireless which generally the address only matters for billing and record purposes and has no effect on the service as long you are in within the coverage area. If you moved due and can no longer receive Clearwire services, then by contract law you should not pay for a service you cannot receive, waiving the ETF fee.
Sprint/Verizon will cancel my service without any charge if I moved into a location where I can no longer receive service from either carrier.
Any service or product is fast under certain conditions, but once you include your own conditions you type of service or product you have will be affected, and this can be applied to mostly all forms of products and services. | |
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boldfield
@insightbb.com
| People speaking here about ETFs obviously never have used CW Clearwire DOES NOT PAY PEOPLE TO SET UP THEIR SERVICE. They give you a trashy modem and an install CD and send you on your way. They only offer Home install service after a certain amount of time IF you experience overwhelming problems. There *is* no recoup needed here. You don't buy modems, you rent them, and you have to return it at end of contract. You don't have an option to rent a used modem, or new, they just give you a modem (new or used). | |
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clrwr1
@clearwire-dns.net
| Re: People speaking here about ETFs obviously never have used CW Hi, Boldfield
My name is Kevin and I'm with Clearwire support. I'm replying to your post in order to clarify a couple of points.
Clearwire doesn't actually use any software with the modem-based service (there is no installation CD unless you're using a mobile service). The technology is plug-and-play; The modem has a power cord and an Ethernet cord and a diagram.
Based on credit ratings, customers may either lease or purchase a modem. We strive to keep it simple and provide plenty of options to accomodate everyone.
If you have any questions about our service or equipment, please feel free to peruse the information on Clearwire.com or call us @ 1-888-clearwire.
Thanks for your feedback and have a great day!
Kevin | |
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Rhumba555
@pacbell.net
| Clearwire and all the other greedy corps! Terms and Conditions be damned. The companies can't expect anyone to read AND understand all that legal bullshit. One-sided agreements are the ammo these money grubbing corps to lure unsuspecting customers into long term service contracts. If we had a contract that THEY had to sign in order to keep us as a customer do you think they would...of course not. And clicking a check box to agree in NO WAY constitutes a signature or agreement. | |
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Clearwire Sued Over ETFs, Poor Service
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