Coffee Shop Wi-Fi WarsIf you want it for free, it's more than just a coffee ( old news - 11:44AM Sunday Jul 09 2006) tags: business · wirelessIn and around Boston, cafe owners who installed wireless signals to draw customers say they also are drawing Internet users who tie up seats for hours, buy little or nothing, and make coffee shops feel like the office as they tap away at their laptops. Now some owners are fighting back ( The Boston Globe) by charging for wireless access, shutting off their signal at peak business hours, or telling loitering laptoppers to shell out or ship out. "There comes a time when you have to tell people, look, you've been here for three hours, and you've bought only a cup of coffee and it's time to move," said Adam Goldberg, owner of Emack & Bolio's in Jamaica Plain. If you have used - or plan to use - this type of service, what do you feel is an acceptable amount of usage for a 'paying customer' that simply buys a coffee?
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Capstone
Kiss My Shiny, Metal Ass
Premium
join:2001-08-12
Springfield, OH
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Acceptable use? If the owner advertises it as a free internet hotspot, then my purchase of a cup of coffee is payment enough. However, I don't have the time or patience to sit there for "hours". I use the internet at my local coffee shop just long enough to check mail and headlines, then I'm off.
But there's leeches everywhere and if they don't know when to leave, then it's the business owner's right to tell them to do so. If I owned a shop and it was busy, I'd certainly tell the surfer that's been there for 3 hours on 1 cup of coffee to shove off so that others could use the seating. If it wasn't busy though, I'd rather have that person sitting there than have the shop sit empty.
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OK, but I don't want anyone thinking we're robosexuals. | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
| Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi McDonalds? What person chomps down a Big Mac and surfs the web?
Gyms - Yes, they do. What can you possibly need Wi-Fi in a Gym for? Finger exercises?
Starbucks - At $6 for a cup of Joe that Juan Valdez didn't pick, I have to pay for Wi-Fi too?
Of course, the White House doesn't have Wi-Fi mainly 'cause Bush doesn't get it. His secretary even programs his iPod. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi Uhhh, did you read a different article than I did?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | | | whoamIoramI
join:2004-05-17
Jersey City, NJ | Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi Also, if you live in place like NYC and have a starbucks below you, you have free internet. My friend that graduated recently never paid a dime for internet access this way.
Do i agree with what he did? nope. Stealing is stealing | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H2Z | Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi Did your friend go stir-crazy from the constant smell of coffee coming from the Starbucks?  | |
| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | That is certainly not stealing. It would be trespassing, if they told him not to use it. If they didn't tell him to stay off their network, and freely broadcast it for others to use, then he did nothing wrong. | |
| | | froggy58
join:2002-05-07
Cape Canaveral, FL
| "McDonalds? What person chomps down a Big Mac and surfs the web?"
When I was in the USAF (late 80's) I was on a team of folks that went to the "Dew Line" with Winnipeg being our 2 day layover until our northbound connecting charter.
We went to a McDonalds and after we had our lunch actually (ate it), no others in the place except staff & us, the manager came up and said you're done, please leave. This was probably one of the best behaved team of folks I've seen, yet if we we not eating we were to be gone. I asked why, he said we were taking up seats...
I just finished my burger when they told us.
K | |
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Unregistered User
@69.244.x.x
| Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi I remember a similar incident from when I was a little kid, about 8 or 9. My family and I went to New Orleans, and I wanted an ice cream cone. So, we went into an ice cream parlor to get one, whereupon the manager told my parents, brother, and sister-in-law that if they didn't buy something, they'd have to wait outside until I finished. Needless to say, we all walked out, and several other people who overheard the conversation did the same. I don't think the place was there when we visited again the next year.
It's one thing to ask people politely to make room for other patrons when the place is busy, but it's quite another to be a jerk. The jerks probably think they're helping business by moving people along and freeing up space, but they're really hurting business because word gets around.
As for the subject at hand, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for a coffee shop to offer a limited amount of access per purchase. 30 minutes for a cup of coffee would be a fair deal. Just have an access code that expires and disconnects the user 30 minutes after the purchase. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Let me guess, the manager was Indian? Canada is becoming a 2nd India. | |
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Dan
Hamilton Tigers?
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Eh? | Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi Way to stereotype. Prick. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi said by Dan  :Way to stereotype. Prick. That is not a stereotype post. If you go up to Canada, especially the Toronto area, there are more Indian resident Aliens/Canadian Citizens then there are True Canadians.
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One man's customer loyalty is another man's misguided arrogance.
Another Tech forum site
Get your own Tekwear | |
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UnrealArcher
join:2005-01-21
Scarborough, ON | Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi The hell you talking about? I live in the city and I hardly see it becoming a second India.
I echo the sentiments above: way to be a stereotypical prick. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi I also echo the sentiments above, but it's also important to note that some immigrant shop owners come from cultures where personal interaction is very different. In some areas, concepts of personal space, rudeness, and acceptable behavior (including both how long to stay and how to ask someone to leave) vary widely from United States norms (to say nothing of variances within the US.)
While we may consider some things quite rude, they may be "normal" in the person's home country. Whether or not to discuss this aspect with the shopkeeper is a personal call.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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mesmerMAN
join:2006-01-18
Miami, FL
| ster·e·o·type Audio pronunciation of "stereotype" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (str--tp, stîr-)
n.
1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.
3. Printing. A metal printing plate cast from a matrix molded from a raised printing surface, such as type | |
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Lord Wanker
join:2001-10-23
Montreal, QC
| said by Greg_Z If you go up to Canada, especially the Toronto area, there are more Indian resident Aliens/Canadian Citizens then there are True Canadians.
[/BQUOTE :One could argue that True Canadians are Indians. --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Its never too late to think......think about it. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Coffee Shops with Wi-Fi said by Lord Wanker :One could argue that True Canadians are Indians. Only if you perpetuate Columbus's mistake in confusing Native Americans and Asian Indians....
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Cop
Premium
join:2001-09-05
Auburn, AL
·Charter Pipeline
| said by Greg_Z :Let me guess, the manager was Indian? Canada is becoming a 2nd India. lol
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Testing Gmail Spam Filters - ebaykid@gmail.com | |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | And it goes political...  | |
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Majestik
World Traveler
Premium
join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK
clubs:  
| Re: Acceptable use? When I go to the neighborhood bookstore/cafe or the pizza place I could be there up to 4 hours when the weather is bad. Sometimes I am reading a few chapters of the book I just purchased,surfing the net(free), or talking with friends.
They know my favorite hot mixes and to bring another when give a signal or say "keep'em coming.
Never gave it a thought. Sometimes they even give me a hot drink "on the house".
I guess if you are neat,clean,pleasant,a frequent visitor and like a bottomless cup there is no problem.
I've been seeing more wifi enabled PDAs,UMPCs,and web phones than notebooks lately.
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The adventure continues.......2006- Switzerland,Oahu,Macau,Hong Kong,Rome,Switzerland(now)......... | |
| | donaldk
Premium
join:2000-10-19
Thunder Bay, ON
| roflmao... we (three Canadian navy MCDV warships), were docked at the USCG ISC Boston jetty last week. I know a bunch of people with laptops and all they had to do was walk out the front gate straight and they had wifi signal from those coffee shops, heck I got no less than 14 wifi points on the back of the ship standing on the sweepdeck but my pda's TX is weak so it could not connect. Of course those with crackberry's (blackberry's) had the cell network for their use...lucky.
Hehe.. Boston was a nice port visit  . | |
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MikegotOOL
join:2001-01-21
East Setauket, NY
clubs:
| Well think about this
Step 1 bring laptop into wireless cafe
2 Order cup of coffee 1 min
3 wait for the coffee to be made or whatever 1min
4 pay for it and sit down 30 secs
5 break out your laptop and wait for it to startup 1-2min
6 find a wireless connection 20-30 secs
7 ask for SSID 30 secs
8 login 15 secs
9 surf net for 5min.
10 shut down laptop properly 20 secs
11 leave
It takes an extra 4-5 minutes to just setup your laptop wit the proper SSID....you are not just gonna stay there for 10 seconds, surf the net then leave...unless you walk in holding your laptop on wherever you go. Truth of the matter is you will be in the coffee shop for at least 20 minutes, not 10 or less if you bring a laptop.
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If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. -Juan Ramon Jimenez Lightpath introduces the Goldenrebever;)(Seti is dead, Project Phoenix is alive now, Big Brother is watching) | |
| | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Acceptable use? quote:
It takes an extra 4-5 minutes to just setup your laptop wit the proper SSID....yo
Must suck to use a Windows laptop then. Here's my scenario with my Powerbook:
1) Open lid of PB, waking it from sleep (1 sec)
2) type in password (2 secs)
3) Click the Airport signal meter in the menubar and pick the right SSID (3 secs)
4) Surf
5) Close Laptop and put in bag - it goes right to sleep (10 secs)
Guess I'm just way too used to this reliability - you Windows users have it hard! | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: Acceptable use? Congratulations for paying too much for inferior hardware, I hope OSX was worth it. | |
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JPuppy
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA
clubs:
| Re: Acceptable use? said by Ahrenl :Congratulations for paying too much for inferior hardware, I hope OSX was worth it. Actually, yes, it is worth it.
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Official BBR Grouch | |
| | | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| quote:
Congratulations for paying too much for inferior hardware, I hope OSX was worth it.
How do you figure? I have a DVD burner (8x), Bluetooth 2.0 (use for my Treo and keyboard), 802.11g, lighted keyboard (best invention ever), and a decent CPU (about equal to a P4/2.5 Ghz or so). Couple that with the time saving features of OSX and it was worth the $100 or so premium I paid over a comparable HP, Compaq, Dell, etc.
And now that the MacBooks are on Intel, the hardware is superior to 90% of laptops out there and costs little more than them too.
So, please tell me how I paid too much for inferior hardware? And while you're at it, chastise those who buy Alienware, Falcon Northwest, IBM, Dell workstations, etc. Cause they all spent more than I did on generic PC hardware that is no better than most. But I guess that doesn't fit your nice neat fallacy. | |
| | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Acceptable use? Heh.. Well, I'd argue people who buy HP, Compaq, and Dell are also paying way to much for inferior hardware. People who buy Alienware (and usually Mac's, unless they're stupid) don't care about money. They just want something that is going to look nice.
OSX is superior, or at least good, if you "Edit video, or create websites", but if you use anything that requires DirectX, or (in my experience) advanced VBA office apps, then it is NOT worth the extra cost.
As for reliability, there is no difference. If you're even a little bit educated you shouldn't have any problems. Of course many aren't (educated with computers) and for those, either system will be equally as useless. | |
| | | | | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Acceptable use? quote:
Well, I'd argue people who buy HP, Compaq, and Dell are also paying way to much for inferior hardware. People who buy Alienware (and usually Mac's, unless they're stupid) don't care about money. They just want something that is going to look nice.
I guess you can say that if you ignore the factrs that those machines typically are better quality and will have better performance than the low end machines. Esp. in the case of Alienware, Falcon, and other top end pc manufacturers. Those guys put out top performing machines.
quote:
OSX is superior, or at least good, if you "Edit video, or create websites", but if you use anything that requires DirectX, or (in my experience) advanced VBA office apps, then it is NOT worth the extra cost.
I do far more than Edit video or create websites. I also manage my digital photo library, run a business, and can even manage an AD network in a pinch. In short, my Powerbook is the do everything machine.
I don't game - never have, PC or Mac, and even use "advanced VBA Office Apps" on my Mac.
quote:
As for reliability, there is no difference. If you're even a little bit educated you shouldn't have any problems. Of course many aren't (educated with computers) and for those, either system will be equally as useless.
Actually there is a difference. A very big difference. I've seen enough computers from the inside out to know there is a HUGE quality difference from the top to the bottom. | |
| | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Acceptable use? You can continue to think there is a difference but there's not. I, and the people I know who use computers for a living, never had the common complaints (since DOS was dropped from Windoze) usually pontificated by Mac users.
Pre-built machines are crap. They use the cheapest hardware for the most important parts because people are ignorant of "motherboards", memory speeds, and integrated graphics. Sure HP, Dell, and Compaq will typically be better than Acer or eMachines, but better smelling sh!t is still what it is.
I'm not saying there are things either system can do that the other can't. (except with respect to DirectX use-ability) I grew up with Mac's, but I like to build my own systems, use a lot of open source software, and *gasp* play the occasional game. So Macs aren't for me. They're also not for most people, but I'm certainly not trying to contend that they're not good for anyone. There's at least 2.5% of computer users that Macs are perfect for. | |
| | | | | | | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Acceptable use? quote:
You can continue to think there is a difference but there's not. I, and the people I know who use computers for a living, never had the common complaints (since DOS was dropped from Windoze) usually pontificated by Mac users.
Guess that's why my Thinkpad, going on 2 years of an XP install will:
1) Forget how to connect to my WiFi at home after about 3-4 days of sleep/wake cycles.
2) Will spontaneously reboot on a resume from sleep
3) Will BSOD sometimes when undocking it
None of these things occur on my Powerbook - it sleeps, wakes, and connects to networks FLAWLESSLY.
XP is better than 2k and 9x, but it is still far behind Linux and OS X in terms of stability and reliability.
quote:
Pre-built machines are crap.
Unfortunately if you want a laptop (which I do), pre-built is all you get.
quote:
I grew up with Mac's, but I like to build my own systems, use a lot of open source software, and *gasp* play the occasional game. So Macs aren't for me. They're also not for most people, but I'm certainly not trying to contend that they're not good for anyone. There's at least 2.5% of computer users that Macs are perfect for.
I have to hear how they're not good for most people? Most people want a reliable computer that's as bulletproof as their TV or DVD player. Windows does not offer that by a long shot. OSX comes as close to that reliability as we can get today. They are the best choice for most people - problem is they have the stereotype of being expensive and not compatible. Boh of which are blatantly false.
If you use OSS, most has been recompiled or is available for OSX - check out Fink.... | |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Acceptable use? I'm sorry you have problems with your thinkpad. Although I haven't used that brand myself, many, many, many people have no problems with their Wintel machines. Here's a great quote from a different thread. (I'm not saying that YOU'RE any of the things in the quote, It just illustrates the point perfectly. I edited out some unnecessary flame. )
I find the people that have a hard time with things like Outlook, virii and spyware and are consistently asking for help usually have other problems linked to their {edited out} laziness. These people tend to also do things like drive their car with the Check Engine light on, try to exit through the entrance doorway, checkout 40 items in the 8 or less item line and reverse up highway on-ramps.
Some people like myself have no problems with MS products, no crashes, no virii and no spyware.
Usually when different people have different reactions to the exact same product it is the user to blame. " As for laptops, well, I never buy em, as they're all over priced. I don't think that the stereotype of Mac's being over priced is blatantly false however. Every comparison I've done has shown that to be on whole very accurate. As for incompatibility, It's definitely true (as I actually stated) that both systems can do the same things (sans DirectX). My big complaints with compatibility always come from Linux (and can inadvertently be projected to OSX) which I've tried many times b/c of a fanatical friend of mine, and which has always failed to achieve the usability promised. | |
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sweintz
Premium
join:2002-03-01
Hamden, CT
| said by Ahrenl :Congratulations for paying too much for inferior hardware, I hope OSX was worth it. superior software (in most cases) more than offsets inferior hardware. | |
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linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
 ·CenturyLink
| How can I judge whether or not your hardware is inferior IF I do not have the identical setup using the identical hardware and peripherals? The answer is I can't, and If I can't then all the rhetoric is moot. it's moot anyway for there is no way to compare an Apple built computer to a company that sells software in a paper sleeve. There are three major platforms for home/office computer use. Some things work better on one platform than another. It's always been that way and it will always be that way until all computer software and hardware is cross-platform, or there is only one platform for all. I used all three, built two of the three and after a number of years I still prefer the one that I feel is the most reliable for the job. Some days it's UNIX and some days it's DOS.
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Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside | |
| | lovewomen
join:2003-08-07
Springfield, VA
·Cox HSI
| Before Xmas 2005 I was setting in my car in a parking spot by a coffee shop which is in the same shopping center as a grocery store in which my wife was shopping. I had my laptop computer, which has a EVDO card in it. I was surfing the internet and I heard this tap on my window. The owner of the store was mad and said he was tired of people using his internet for free etc. I pointed out to him the EVDO card, ejected the card and waved it at him. He at last understood and left. I just hope someday I get a chance to get some money from one of these people who think they know everything. | |
| scareg
join:2003-10-27
Walla Walla, WA | 30 minutes 30 minutes sounds about fair to me. Shouldn't take any longer to drink a cup of coffee and check/ send a few e-mails. | |
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See 13 replies to this post | |
Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Wow commonsense is news? In other news... Look both ways when crossing the road. | |
| 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| *For Me*... ... when I'm at one, I buy a coffee and connect.
A cup of coffee doesn't last me very long. 
Sitting near others swilling their coffee when mine is gone, usually makes me want another - and possibly a blueberry muffin. LOL!
I usually last about 1 hour before I leave - their connection isn't all that fast, so it doesn't have that much appeal *to me*.
I think, if you ARE a paying customer, no matter what or how little you purchase, it should be whatever your battery will last!
No AC! ~3 hours is more than enough for anyone!
NOTE: When I'm "Coffee shop surfing", it's usually in The City(that's San Francisco BTW) and I can usually find a usable signal just about anywhere I am!
Free = Good, but don't abuse it or you screw it up for everyone!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: *For Me*... I goto coffee shops to recharge my PDA phone (practically a laptop), I use a cellular broadband network (Verizon EVDO) for all data needs, never wifi. | |
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quanta
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Toronto, ON | Look to the Captive portal for the answer... Configure your captive portal to have session timeouts at 1 hour (or whatever). That and have baristas kicking out the determined leeches and problem solved. | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
1 edit | Re: Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair A 24/7 diner in a very high foot traffic area in NYC (Tasty Corner, Astoria NY) recently made a new bathroom policy. $4 minimum to use bathroom unless a customer. Plus now they have a bathroom key. And a door sized poster on the bathroom door saying the new bathroom policy. I used them for all my late night sleepwalking episodes lol. I always bought a coffee ($0.75) each time and tossed it in the trash when i went outside, just to be fair. I havnt tried them asking for the key on a sub $4 item yet, since all the items i bought so far under the new bathroom policy were over $4 dollars and were kitchen prepared, maybe i should order toast for $0.90, takes 4 mins to make, enough waiting around time for bathroom key. They also have a $4 per person minimum for tables. $4 is way too much for one use of bathroom IMO, its cheaper to buy baby wipes and do it in the bushes in a park or on the street. So ultimatly, yeah store owners can be insane and assholes if they have demand. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair said by patcat88 :... So ultimatly, yeah store owners can be insane and assholes if they have demand. Or they can be honest merchants, setting the terms of using their stores and letting you choose somewhere else to go if you don't like it. Since you consider peeing in the park an option rather than taking the responsibility upon yourself to plan for biological functions, I hope you get to live somewhere where many other people do likewise. Those of us who evacuate our bodily secretions responsibly would like to have others do the same. In the meantime, why don't you spend untold dollars providing free restroom facilities to the public like you seem to expect others to do?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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RobertFranz
@comcast.net
| Re: Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair "In the meantime, why don't you spend untold dollars providing free restroom facilities to the public like you seem to expect others to do?"
I find it insane that downtown businesses wnat masses of warm bodies (well - they want their money anyway)yet resent bearing any of the cost of having those folks around.
Anytime I see a sign announcing "Restrooms for rmployees only" I turn away and do business elsewhere - whether I feel I might need the facilities or not.
My rule is that if you have seating, you must have a restroom. This is a cost of doing business with me.
Free restrooms are not a right - but neither is having my business. | |
| | | | | nanoflower
join:2002-07-14
30876 | Re: Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair I thought it was a requirement that they had to provide restrooms for the public? They may limit it's use to only paying customers but I thought the health inspectors forced them to provide restrooms. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair Ditto. I don't see signs saying "restrooms for employees only", I see signs saying "restrooms for customers only", which isn't a problem if you're a customer. If you're not, you can only resent the sign if you believe freeloading is a God-given right.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Bobcat
Volvo sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | Free? Where can you find free access? Starbucks and McDonalds charge money for their WiFi access. | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX | Re: Free? Tons of places here in Houston. | |
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eddiethenewguy
@calltech.com
| ok i had never even looked at mcdonalds (rarely go in just the mighty drive through ummmmmmm fries)
how dare they dare to charge for something thats supposed to be an attraction, if i need wifi and cant poach off of somewhere then off to kinkos i go for an arm and a leg (LOL or a nearby nice neighborhood they seem to bristle with open access points) | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
·Charter Pipeline
| said by Bobcat :Where can you find free access? Starbucks and McDonalds charge money for their WiFi access. My local McDonald's has free Wi-Fi...it's a Charter cable modem, and it reaches all the way to the traffic light near the place.
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*ring* "This .sig has been disconnected. Please try your call again later." | |
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Bobcat
Volvo sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Free? From »www.mcdonalds.com/wireless/find_···ect.html
quote:
What does it cost and how do I pay?
It depends on how you connect. Currently, the recommended pricing for a one-time connection is $2.95 for 2 hours of service. If you connect through a membership or roaming option, the price depends on your subscription rate with that company.
Unless you already have a subscription or a prepaid card from Wayport, the only way to pay in the McDonald’s restaurant is online with credit card.
You cannot pay for the service over the counter.
This indicates to me that charging for service is the norm. Of course, our local McDonald's is so bad, I won't set foot in the place anymore. | |
| 
SYNACK
Just Firewall It
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
Host:
Networking
Virtual Private Ne..
Netgear
ZyXEL
| The problem really has nothing to do with wireless The same problem arises if somebody buys one cup of coffee, then studies for finals, reads a book or newspapers, or knits a sweater for the rest of the day.
It is only a problem once the shop is full and there are no empty tables left. At any other time, the place has an interest to keep a somewhat successful appearance. It is better for business if there are customers present at all times. If nobody is in there, people might be suspicious about the product quality and pass.
OTOH, If the place is always packed, maybe the shop is successful enough to warrant an expansion.  | |
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RobertFranz
@comcast.net
| Re: The problem really has nothing to do with wireless "The same problem arises if somebody buys one cup of coffee, then studies for finals, reads a book or newspapers, or knits a sweater for the rest of the day."
Very true.
It comes down to the shop owner understanding his business and customers.
Some 'freeloaders' may actually be an asset if they are talking up the product, contributing to the atmosphere and bringing in more customers...
I once frequented a bar in San Diego where a big attraction was the group of regulars that had been showing up like clockwork every morning for 30 years or more.
They were fun to chat with.
Their bars bills weren't much - I think mine paid for the owner's new boat.
It really does come down to knowing one's business. | |
|
afasfdsf
@comcast.net | Change They should just change their statement to say free internet for an hour with any purchase. Of course you can go over it, but sometimes just saying that will make freeloaders realize they can't just sit all day there. | |
| jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
| campers Tell the campers to move on. This is like the people who are seated at a restaurant 2 minutes before closing and think they can sit around til all the chairs are up and the lights are off, often over an hour or more after they have finished eating.
The net cafe where i used live charged by the time connected, first half hour was around $1.25. The coffee was resonable priced so a large cup and some net time was under $3. | |
| | 
53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: campers LOLOLOL! f*cking campers.
whether its an awp or cup of coffee ppl are all the same... | |
| | tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA
 ·Vonage
| I, on the other hand can't stand going to a restaurant that advertises they are open until 10PM and get mad if you come in at 9:45. They should be open until 9:30 if they don't want customers past that time. I even had a local pizza shop that advertised open until 10PM who would not take a delivery order at 9:50. They should advertise being closed at the time orders are no longer taken, not after the time they don't want orders.
As far as coffee shops, it seems that some freeloaders are a by product of offering free service. Isn't it an enticement to get you to go there anyway? Could they also entice you by making good coffee and smelly coffee cake? I agree that the policy clearly needs stated. Personally, I wouldn't frequent a shop that had a restrictive (like 1/2 hour) policy. I meet clients and often buy lunch for them. I need more time to eat, let alone use the internet. Usually, what I see, is there is plenty of seats during lunch. I do go to a Panera Bread which has a lot of seats ( a lot of customers and lots of buyers). Maybe this issue is more about tiny coffee shops? | |
| 
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Coffee Shop Managers != IT Monkeys These guys simply aren't very clever. There are fairly cheap captive portal solutions that allow for "ticketing". Each customer gets a pre-printed ticket with user/pass each time food/drink is ordered. Ticket is good for 30 minutes of use. Want more internet? Buy something and you get another ticket.
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Day dreaming days in a daydream nation | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
AlphaOne
I see
Premium
join:2004-02-21
| Tiered service ... Let the amount of purchase decide how long you can stay online.
For example a cup of coffee will give you a privilege time to use the wi-fi for 30 online minutes. If you buy a food with it, maybe another 30 minutes.
If after an hour you still feel like staying, you need to buy another cup. If not, then your service be automatically cut-off. I think that's fair.
Now, for those who just use the coffee shops as their office, there should be an eject button placed under their seats.
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something incredible is waiting to be known - Carl Sagan | |
|
williambrasky
@qwest.net
| I think I'm okay. I use various coffee shops as my office. I spend 2-3 days a week out "in the field" when I feel the urge to not work from home. I use my $30/month T-Mobile wifi connection, buy 3-4 $3 coffee drinks, and spend 6-9 hours taking up space. Am I within the acceptable terms of use? | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| being cheap and rude=no busine$$ There's a right and wrong way of going about getting people to fork over some more money for wifi, like minimum weekly/monthly purchases, etc. Otherwise it's plain rude behavior and I wouldn't be surprised if customers went elsehwere, what are they suckling power from the place too?!?
God forbid they should ask for a dvd-r to back-up their p2p use, jeez! | |
| |
calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: being cheap and rude=no busine$$ Yes, but it's important to note that this isn't about getting the "abusers" to fork over money--it's about keeping the "abusers" from discouraging other customers who will contribute to revenue. (And I use "abusers" tentatively--maybe "campers" or "squatters" would work better, but this isn't about terminology.)
In some ways, this is more like a restaurant having a smelly homeless person camping out under its awning or coming in and ordering one cup of coffee to enjoy the heat or air conditioning all day long. It's just harder to identify the undesirable aspects at the door by sight (or smell.)
Less comfortable seats (pioneered at some coffee shops at the 1964 NY World's Fair) might help.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| LordBritish
join:2003-08-02
Marina Del Rey, CA | Campers I see people camping out at Starbucks with their laptops.
One hour is more than enough time for a coffee.
If you're trying to write "War & Peace II", then do it at home. | |
| | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: Campers I am one of those “campers” so let me add my perspective. I write (dull technical documents) for a living. I largely work at home, but sometimes go to a coffee house to break things up. I tend to go mid-afternoon on weekdays. Let me tell you the places are not packed. My stay is rarely more than two and one/half hours. My average purchase is two venti drinks and one pastry.
When I lived in the States, I subscribed to both Boingo and TMobile at different times. I went to a coffee house and always purchased food and a drink. I also paid for the wi-fi connection. A piece of my unlimited access plan is given to the coffeehouse and the owner of the shop thought it was a fair deal.
People with pay wifi usually sell it by the day or by the hour. If the person has bought a day pass or came in on an all you can eat pass, I think the coffee house owner made a bad deal, and they should live with it. That said, I think coffee houses could earn more money from me if they asked the question "how do we make more money from the campers" rather than "how do we get rid of those leaches."
I don’t go up to the counter as much as I could because it is a pain to unhook my laptop and carry it up. I certainly am not going to leave the laptop out of arm’s reach.
If coffee house owners created a virtual ordering portal, I’d use it. What about a web page that simply allowed you to enter Table 17 wants another venti carmel whatever and will be paying for it with a $10 bill? It isn’t not as labor intensive as a waitress, they will sell more coffee, etc. I’d also being willing to start a credit card tab. Oh, and did I mention that I would tip.
When I am working, there are students studying, housewives gabbing over a single coffee with other housewives, and sales reps calling in order over their mobiles. I don’t see how I am any different.
Stu | |
| | | 
Yippz Voip
join:2005-05-04
Atlanta, GA
| Re: Campers Bottom line...
1 - Bellsouth is giving away free hotspots to businesses to advertise Bellsouth -- it cost the owners of the coffee shops or any public gathering business NOTHING
link >> »smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/inte···spot.asp
2 - NO ONE goes to an EMPTY coffeehouse... Owners of most coffeehouses (I know 4 in my area) that could care less if you spend 1 hour or 3 hours in the shop -- the busier the shop looks, the more people come in... Who stops to go into an empty coffeehouse -- NO ONE -- Ask ANY successful coffeehouse owner. | |
| | | 
beeman65
join:2001-07-23
Mckeesport, PA
| said by stufried : What about a web page that simply allowed you to enter Table 17 wants another venti carmel whatever and will be paying for it with a $10 bill? It isn’t not as labor intensive as a waitress, they will sell more coffee, etc. I’d also being willing to start a credit card tab. Oh, and did I mention that I would tip. When I am working, there are students studying, housewives gabbing over a single coffee with other housewives, and sales reps calling in order over their mobiles. I don’t see how I am any different. Stu I like that idea. Just use a web based reorder system. Though that would just promote more people sitting there all day without getting up much. I say let 'em do it.
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Get Firefox. Join the new wave. | |
| 
Persona
Premium
join:2004-07-07
Gravenhurst, ON
| this is the way the world works now folks Coffee shops are not owned by individuals, they are owned by corporations and every square inch is measured for profitability.
I prefer the sentimental illusion of the bohemian coffee house where poor students & artists hangout - can barely afford that cup of coffee - offer up stimulating conversation and the place gains a life of its own.
But I'm afraid those days are pretty much gone. | |
| |
Yippz Voip
join:2005-05-04
Atlanta, GA
| Re: this is the way the world works now folks Persona -- I don't know what planet you live on BUT besides the Caribou Coffee and Starbucks around my neighborhood, there are 4 independently owned coffeehouses.
And you never know -- the guy who sips his coffee and sits there for 3 hours, could come back tomorrow with 12 of his colleagues from work and buy hundreds of dollars worth of coffee, desserts and sandwiches.
This is why people with no business sense shouldn't own coffeeshops... but unfortunately some do... | |
| |
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Since when are the Corp coffee shops giving away free access?
Sure as hell isn't Starchucks! T-Mobile is not free!
Here, we have a coffee shop that is offering free access... not owned by any Corp!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|
bingi
@charter.com
| It's shops that want the free ride, here I'm sick of companies complaining because one of their business tactics gets complicated as soon as it becomes well known. Like that Best Buy executive talking about shoppers that "abuse" their loss leaders by buying (gasp!) ONLY THE LOSS LEADERS! DUN Dun dun...
If these coffee shop owners only ostensibly offered limited surfing per purchase, and maybe only allowed well-known regulars longer access, then they wouldn't have a problem. Instead they ostensibly offer unlimited access with a purchase, something that isn't sustainable for them if people actually take them up on it. It's like my ISP offering me 3Gbps of download speed. Except, hilariously, in the coffee shop case it's not me that gets screwed by too many users, it's the coffee shop itself.
It's like businesses think that they use fundamentally different thought processes than individuals. Like we can't comparison shop, or wait for a better deal, or notice that something goes on sale every three months, or buy jackets in the spring and sandals in the fall, or walk out of a store with only what we came for. Or compute the value of unlimited Internet access for the price of a cup of coffee (and you get to drink the coffee too!)
Sorry, but most of us don't just behave randomly. If you put out an attractive, unsustainable deal you are probably going to get taken up on it and have a big problem on your hands. "Unlimited" isn't just a marketing word that mysteriously manages to create customers with no repercussions. | |
| 
Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| boo... This is really stupid. A system can be set in place that everytime the first purchase is made on the receipt there would be a l/p (login/password).
Then you have a set timer of 30 minutes or whichever the coffee shop owner prefers and after those 30 minutes or so your time is up and your l/p has expired. You will need to buy something so that you can get access to it again.
Coffee shop owners are getting mad? Who cares. | |
| 
battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Simple fix. Simple fix. Limit MAC addresses to X number of minutes per 24 hours. We have done that to keep neighboring businesses from leaching wifi hotspots. Kinda funny when we get a complaint about it from time to time. | |
| 
richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR | Nothing New This is an old story. It amazes me this story is still going around, at least for thee years. | |
| |
BluffCityCoffee
@rr.com
| Re: Nothing New I personally own a coffee shop and give away free internet. Any of you guys are welcome to use our Internet connection for as long as you want. I've been in the technology field for 12 years now and have recently left the field to run a couple of businesses that I own, which one of them is a coffee shop called Bluff City Coffee in Memphis, TN. I always hated having to pay for Internet at Coffee shops and promised myself that I would never charge for it in one of my shops. I have a 7mb connection and it's free to anyone that stops by. We have plenty of tables and we appreciate all of our customers rather you buy one cup or many cups of coffee.
Just my two cents........
Mike | |
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|
|
Whatever the coffee shop owner says is fair