 IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC kudos:1 | Something to look forward to with Comcast... Something to look forward to with Comcast... 
It's Comcastic! | |
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 |  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Except Comcast's cap is 250 gigs; much more reasonable than 10.
And they do supply McAfee, which does have a meter (though not as good as a router flashed with Tomato) | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Except a 250gig monthly cap does nothing to alleviate the problems of peak network congestion. So why is it there? | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Exactly. I say this every time someone says 250 gigs is "reasonable", or blames heavy users for network congestion. I wish people were smart enough to understand. | |
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 |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | as well as AT&T and Time Warner Cable.  -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 |  AVonGaussPremium join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL | Yet, you are the one constantly advocating metered billing in the Comcast HSI forum. I think your comment may be out of place as Comcast has not announced any attention to do metered billing at this time. | |
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 |  |  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC kudos:1 3 edits | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... That's right... I am!
I think metered billing is a great idea.
Based on Cogeco, I think they're going to screw it up bigtime if they try it.
That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
It should be done well.
My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... | |
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·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... up front statement: I hate the concept of metered billing.
that being said, if it's going to be done, it has to be done well. but there should also be an independent entity (govt or otherwise) that certifies the accuracy of the metering system the ISP is using - much like what is done with gas pumps, electric meters, water meters, etc.
if they want to charge by the bit, they should be made to prove they are accurately measuring the bits being used. | |
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 |  |  |  |  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC kudos:1 | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Damn right! | |
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approval from: PIZZAMAN76 
| Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... And while they are at it, any meter needs to ignore: a) reset packets if the provider throttles the connection (the cabeco/telco is doing this for their benefit, not mine) b) ad insertion content (stuff I didn't ask for) c) any cableco/telco 'test' packets/probes to customer premises (not on my dime) | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... forgot some D) arp traffic E) Dropped packets F) Cable box data channel bandwidth | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:7 | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... a, c, d, and e add a trivially insignificant amount of overhead to the total 250GB of data. Point taken though. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | As opposed to customer choice to go with another provider?
This just in "Obama names metered billing Czar"
Sarcasm: Where do I sign up for this | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | said by nasadude:that being said, if it's going to be done, it has to be done well. but there should also be an independent entity (govt or otherwise) that certifies the accuracy of the metering system the ISP is using - much like what is done with gas pumps, electric meters, water meters, etc. I haven't seen any independent govt agency checking my electrical or water meter. Does that happen? Is this also applicable to cell phones minutes too? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... said by yt:I haven't seen any independent govt agency checking my electrical or water meter. Does that happen? Is this also applicable to cell phones minutes too? Electrical and water meters you can get tests done on, mandated by law by your local PUC or Weights and Measures Dept.
Not sure who regulated cellphone minutes accuracy. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Lol, how can metered billing "be done right" when ISPs never have to reveal or justify their internal statistics (economic data) to an independent entity or government regulators? Do you realize how much money these outfits make? Do you have any clue how little it costs them to maintain their network?
Metered billing is not done anywhere in the world where there is real competition?
It's amusing to see how easily sheep can be shepherded by these corporate wolves. | |
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 |  |  |  KilroyPremium,MVM join:2002-11-21 Ann Arbor, MI | said by IPPlanMan:My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... Great in theory. Unproven in reality. The encouragement for infrastructure should be customer retention and acquisition. Unfortunately if there is no competition there is no reason to do anything for the customer. -- When will the people realize that with DRM they aren't purchasing anything? | |
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 |  |  |  |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... said by Kilroy:said by IPPlanMan:My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... Great in theory. Unproven in reality. ATT, Verizon/MCI/Alter.net/UUNet, Level(3), GlobalCrossing, etc all developed their networks by billing based on usage. Customers are subscribed to a bandwidth level commitment and their usage is tracked and billed according to 95th percentile metering. That's the reason we have all of the backbone capacity that we have today -- more bandwidth usage = more revenue.
said by Kilroy:The encouragement for infrastructure should be customer retention and acquisition. Unfortunately if there is no competition there is no reason to do anything for the customer. Which is exactly why metered billing is a favorable solution. Today providers only upgrade their networks to prevent the loss of massive numbers of customers -- if you're a high-usage customer that leaves you without a lot of options. Companies are always seeking to grow their revenue, and metered billing allows them to sell infrastructure upgrades to investors as future sources of revenue. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... The end result of metered billing is yet even more profits for cable companies. By making more money they can justify infrastructure upgrades to their investors, but they already make billions and consumers are already gouged. Gouging them further is hardly a solution. | |
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 |  |  |  rcabor4 join:2007-04-17 Grand Prairie, TX | said by IPPlanMan:That's right... I am! I think metered billing is a great idea. My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... But if you cap the amount, then why would you need to invest in infrastructure. The need for growth would come to a crawl/stop. This is why its so attractive for the ISPs, more revenue, no video competition, no need to upgrade network capacity, and crazy profits! | |
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 |  |  |  |  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC kudos:1 | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Damn right. | |
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 |  |  |  | | The only way to do it well is to not do it at all.
Encourages infrastructure investment?!?! Are you serious?!?! Do you actually want me to believe that anyone who implements metered billing is going to use that money to reinvest in infrastructure? BS! Roger isn't. If anything, now that caps keep people from using the high-bandwidth applications they want to use, it will only justify then continuing to NOT reinvest in infrastructure.
The incentive to invest in your infrastructure while charging a flat fee is that that flat fee is still orders of magnitude greater than the cost of infrastructure. The current flat fees being charged are more than enough to rake in fat profits even AFTER using a little to upgrade networks to keep up with the pace of traffic growth.
Your case for metered billing is unfounded. | |
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 |  |  |  |  knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... said by Michael Chaney :
The only way to do it well is to not do it at all.
Encourages infrastructure investment?!?! Are you serious?!?! Do you actually want me to believe that anyone who implements metered billing is going to use that money to reinvest in infrastructure? BS! Roger isn't. If anything, now that caps keep people from using the high-bandwidth applications they want to use, it will only justify then continuing to NOT reinvest in infrastructure.
The incentive to invest in your infrastructure while charging a flat fee is that that flat fee is still orders of magnitude greater than the cost of infrastructure. The current flat fees being charged are more than enough to rake in fat profits even AFTER using a little to upgrade networks to keep up with the pace of traffic growth.
Your case for metered billing is unfounded. It's ok, let them shoot each other in the foot. It just makes my ISP business better because I don't mess with meters. As one ISP to the others, meters are for making money, not expanding services and upgrading your infrastructure to handle more customers.
Bandwidth gets cheaper every day, but rather than pass along the savings, they pocket the money. -- Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like: Click Here to pollute their data | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Actually in Cogeco's case they bought an ISP in Turkey or something with all the cash they were supposed to spend on the network.
They are a bunch of clowns. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  IgnitePremium,VIP join:2004-03-18 UK | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... Cabovisao Portugal, who offer uncapped 30/1 for a similar price to Cogeco's 100GB then metered 16/1.  | |
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 |  |  |  wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | said by IPPlanMan:My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... And exactly how does it encourage investment in infrastructure? Is there any guarantee that any of these overages will go directly to infrastructure upgrades?
Will my bill go down from where it is now? Can grandma get a 5 gig plan for $10 monthly? Metered billing only works when the pricing starts out with actual cost to provide service. And even if I'm not a cable subscriber, I still have a wire in the ground. It does not cost them much to provide service.
cw | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... The answer is they offshored all the cash trying to play globalization ISP instead of buying back their shares from Rogers who owns 30% of the company.
Canada has no competition and it's not by mistake. | |
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 |  |  |  | | said by IPPlanMan:My case for metered billing is that it encourages infrastructure investment. What incentive does Comcast have to invest in its infrastructure when you pay them a flat fee each month no matter how much you use... (well, up to 250GB that is).... How about the encouragement that if you network sucks people will get their connection from someone else?
Oh that's right, we are dealing with a monopoly / duopoly industry so people really don't have a choice. My bad.
As been shown, if these companies have competition they WILL invest to stay competitive. However, as it stands now they have no reason to invest, just reasons to restrict and charge more for the same thing. | |
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 |  |  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | I dont advocate it, i just think the current comcast cap is reasonable. I would prefer an uncapped, unmetered, unthrottled service; just as most heavy internet users would. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... You mean like how every user in every competitive market around the world experiences the internet? Interesting... | |
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 |  |  joakoPremium join:2000-09-07 /dev/null kudos:5 Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by AVonGauss:Yet, you are the one constantly advocating metered billing in the Comcast HSI forum. I think your comment may be out of place as Comcast has not announced any attention to do metered billing at this time. I too would be for FAIR metered billing. Say your service is $59.99/250 gigs... charge 25 cents/GB overage! -- PRescott7-2097 | |
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 |  | | not use where you get comcast out of this. sound like a hater. comcast has not said anything about metered billing. | |
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 |  |  IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC kudos:1 | Re: Something to look forward to with Comcast... I understand it's about Cogeco...
I expect the same level of competency from Comcast if they tried metered billing.
That doesn't mean that I don't think that it shouldn't be done.
It should be done well. | |
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 |  KearnstdElf WizardPremium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | cable billing is cryptic enough, we dont need metered billing. besides i think the billing system in place at most telcos and cable cos is soo ancient it would likely explode and fail if this was tacked onto it. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 JBEveryday Normal Guy join:2009-05-14 | Nice article Really shines light on this terrible idea.
Broken meters + Extra charges = Lots and lots of unhappy customers.
Put in your complaints people. | |
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 |  | | Re: Nice article My thoughts exactly and just another reason to make this stupidity with the metered billing, go away | |
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 | | Bingo "tells you plenty about the quality of competition in Cogeco markets"
Bingo! | |
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 | | Metered billing... "...confuses your customers and deters use of your product."
Well, isn't that the point? And as far as "reporting" higher usage than was actually present... Duh! (brought to you by Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe) | |
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 | | Were Screwed
I'm a Cogeco customer and so far this month there Meter is out over 5Gb's compared to my DuMeters results. You call in and complain and all they do is open a ticket and say lets wait and see.
Come July when people start getting there bill for June and they see these charges for usage they didn't use..... Well lets just say I wouldn't want to be a Cogeco rep when the shit starts hitting the fan.
I think the thing that's the most insulting is the Cogeco ads you see on TV saying the "have the best customer support". Yah Right!!!!! | |
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 |  | | Re: Were Screwed said by Hamilton1:I'm a Cogeco customer and so far this month there Meter is out over 5Gb's compared to my DuMeters results. You call in and complain and all they do is open a ticket and say lets wait and see. Come July when people start getting there bill for June and they see these charges for usage they didn't use..... Well lets just say I wouldn't want to be a Cogeco rep when the shit starts hitting the fan. Contact the provincial consumer protection office and file a formal complaint.
See whether you can get the local Crown Attorney to file fraud charges. | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium join:2004-02-14 College Station, TX | RE For a second there, I was going to tell you to call the public service commission, but ISP's are not utilities.
I guess talk to your government representatives because they will get away with wrongfully billing you as long as you allow them to, and all they have to say is the meter says you used x amount of data.
Surely someone regulates ISP's there. | |
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 |  | | Re: RE That would be the CRTC which is, in essence, run by/paid off by/in the back pocket of (take your pick) the ISPs.
Sort of like going to the police, to complain about the police  | |
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 | | Um.... So they want to play pennies with their customers by implementing metered billing which, according to the company, will save them and customers money. Fast-forward to today. Users under the new metered billing (which probably cost millions to implement in the first place) are getting charged more overall for the similar usage, the system still does not work meaning more cost to re-fix the failed system which will probably mean even high prices for customers.
Anyone else see any ironic issues here?
If I were the CEO I would be firing the hell out of the idiots that came up with the idea... Oh, wait, it was probably the CEO that did...
When business implodes in on itself. --
- "Techie" Jim | |
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 bt join:2009-02-26 canada kudos:1 | Correction needed Competition deters carriers from shifting to the per-byte model, which of course tells you plenty about the quality of competition in CogecoCanadian markets. Fixed for you. | |
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 1 edit | Another fact Another interesting fact is that before this new meter was rolled out to support billing Cogeco had a different meter which worked very well. It updated in real time and the numbers were very accurate.
It seems they had a meter that worked perfectly fine but it would not integrate with their billing systems so it got scrapped for this new one which is faulty.
I cannot see how a company can legally bill their customers based on incorrect numbers. | |
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 doc69Premium join:2004-08-01 Reviews:
·Insight Communic..
| Enjoy For Now! Well I'm going to enjoy the rest of the time i have with the internet. When they go to metered billing in my area i will cancel my cable and go to an antenna. No more net & no more cable tv. -- I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE." | |
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 | | The CRTC Only does Cable TV The CRTC doesn't have an jurisdiction as far as the Internet goes in Canada they only deal with the TV side of things, so ISP's can basically do anything they want and if you don't have an alternative then you either live with their rules and policies or do without internet service.
I tried phoning the CRTC about this issue and the girl actually laughed at me and when I asked if there were any other government agencies that I could contact she told me a big fat NO!!! | |
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 |  | | Re: As I said in my previous post! "The cost"? Content providers already pay for their bandwidth. They pay for it, they use it, end of story.
ISPs make unethically large amounts of profit year after year. How many tens of billions have they made after 10 years of monopoly pricing and control? That doesn't even include the hundreds of billions in tax subsidies they've stolen from various state and local governments.
ISPs already "recover the cost" of their business by charging consumers and content providers for their bandwidth. They have plenty of money. They should have invested that money into their infrastructure a long time ago. | |
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 n2jtx join:2001-01-13 Glen Head, NY 1 edit | There Is A Way To Fix It First, I am glad they are hammering this out in Canada and not here. My sister, living outside of Tonto, has suffered under Rogers caps and overage billing charges. The family has just about given up using the Internet for anything other than email and a few downloads lest they get caught up in sticker shock when their bill arrives. It is sad that they basically live in fear of using the service they are paying for.
Perhaps if the Canadian government can grow a few, they will force the ISP's to submit their usage meters to the same monitoring and certification that the electric company and gasoline companies are required to undergo. Electric and water meters, heating oil and gasoline pumps are checked for accuracy and certified by a government authority. If the ISP's want to implement the equivalent of an electric meter, than that meter should be subject to strict government regulation and oversight. This attitude of "Trust us, we'll make sure our meter is accurate" is pure nonsense because the ISP's have every incentive to make sure it is wrong in their favor. This is why we do not trust the companies that bill us for things to certify the equipment that does the measuring is accurate. We have an independent authority do that. The ISP's need the same regulation.
-- I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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 |  | | Re: There Is A Way To Fix It Lol if the ISPs had to submit their data for cost to the company per gigabyte of usage by an end user, they would be in big trouble. It would be plenty difficult for them to justify any of their caps or overage charges. | |
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 |  |  bt join:2009-02-26 canada kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| Re: There Is A Way To Fix It He's not suggesting they submit their cost/gb for approval. He's suggesting that they have to have their meters themselves approved to ensure that the amount being billed for is correct.
Essentially, make bandwidth meters used for billing purposes be covered under the Weights and Measures Act. | |
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 ctceoPremium join:2001-04-26 South Bend, IN Reviews:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
| Another opprotunity I was never a proponent to metered billing as opposed to opening the floodgates. I have several analogies. Find a lock I can break it. If I can hear it I can record it. If its speed is faster it will get used more, fight the pirates the pirates fight back.
Metered billing is a waste of time and will not work. There is no running out of data, only limited patience with corporate greed.
Sign the petition or at least vote with your pocket book. If you do neither you are giving metered billing an a-okay!
»www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/ -- Would you like your ISP to govern how much you can use the web in a month? Well it might happen if we don't do something NOW! »www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/ | |
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 | | metered billing you are not happy!?!?! Find an other internet provider. You have Bell, Rogers, Videotron. Ho its to expensive. Pay 7.50$ for overcharges and comeback with cogeco | |
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 |  bt join:2009-02-26 canada kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| Re: metered billing said by Blaster :
you are not happy!?!?! Find an other internet provider. You have Bell, Rogers, Videotron. Ho its to expensive. Pay 7.50$ for overcharges and comeback with cogeco Bell may be an option, but Rogers, Videotron and Cogeco are all cable providers and have almost no overlap (if any) in their service areas.
As for Bell, their overage charges are the same per gb as Cogeco's on a tier to tier basis. | |
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 |  EUSKill cancerPremium join:2002-09-10 canada Reviews:
·voip.ms
| said by Blaster :
you are not happy!?!?! Find an other internet provider. You have Bell, Rogers, Videotron. Ho its to expensive. Pay 7.50$ for overcharges and comeback with cogeco Please get your facts straight before posting how cable is competitive, and how much "choice" is offered. In THIS part of Canada the market is served either by Videotron, or Rogers, but NOT BOTH. Cable monopoly. DSL is ruled by Bell. If you sign onto a 3rd party dsl supplier, you're still ruled by Bell's rules. -- ~ Project Hope ~ Good God! Who's manning the internet?! | |
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 | | I've Heard I have about 5 friends who belong to Rogers and they only charge up to a max of $25 over and after that you can pretty much download as much as you like. My friend has read that some people off Rogers have taken up to 3Tb's in a month and not had a problem.
With Cogeco if you go past your 60Gb's then you have to pay up to $30 and then even after that you may be lucky and make it to 200Gb or possibly 300Gb but after a certain point they will cut you off till the end of the month or until you buy an enterprise account that cost $200 a month. (although I have read that even the enterprise account had someone cut off after 2TB's) So in reality Cogeco doesn't have an "UNLIMITED" account to offer it's customer. | |
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 | | Good thing i'm moving....... To teh red hot fiber asap.
- A -- LETS GO METS! | |
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 | | Yup, their meters definitely don't work I kind of am the opposite way. I had a day with a 100GB spike, which I had no idea what happened that day.
I called Cogeco because I was at 95% of my cap (I got SOHO 200GB cap) with no warning email and they said I was only at 75GB downloaded.
So obviously their meters don't work, my report has me over 200GB while they are probably only 100GB in actuality.
Unfortunately, where I live, it's Cogeco or nothing. | |
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 | | Canada This is a problem in Canada, there is no competition. Apparently when the idea if laying cable was first floated, the cable companies managed to convince the government that they wouldn't lay cable unless they had an exclusive to an area.
Bingo - instant monopoly. So we end up with a situation where Canadian's pay really high rates, for really bad service, and the government sits there and looks stupid. | |
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