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Cogeco Starts Charging For Overages
Though it's still not clear their meters completely work
by Karl Bode Monday 28-Sep-2009 tags: business · bandwidth · caps · Cogeco Cable
Back in April, Canadian cable operator Cogeco hoisted metered billing on the back of their customers, applying caps as low as 10GB per month and overages as high as $2.50 per gigabyte on top of existing tiers. When customers complained, Cogeco insulted customer intelligence by insisting the move wasn't about making money. Cogeco then decided to raise monthly rates as well, apparently just for good measure. Except Cogeco's metered billing ambitions hit a snag when customers started complaining Cogeco's meters didn't actually work.

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In July Cogeco told us they were doing everything possible to fix the errors (dubbed "anomalies"), and that thankfully they wouldn't bill customers until Cogeco had "completed any required fine tuning of the metering and notification tools."

It's now almost October and users in our Cogeco forum say that many of them have begun to see charges on their bills for overages, despite the fact they're still having problems with Cogeco's meters. "I had to call and fight with them to get the charges refunded as the majority of my month was on Pro but the bandwidth counter thought I was on Standard for the entire month," says one anomaly.

Users are still debating the differences between their own bandwidth measuring tools and Cogeco's, which has to be putting additional strain on the company's support systems. Other users continue to complain that the company's e-mail alert system, which notifies you when you're getting close to your cap, doesn't work properly.

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Cravon

join:2004-06-16
St Catharines, ON

At least their business plans are still excluded.

I am over my cap by 40gb this month and was over 100gb last month. They haven't even cut me off for the usage like they threaten to do in the TOS. I am surprised more heavy users haven't switched over. Cogeco's business plans are safe for at least a few more months from overcharges.
cptmiles
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN

Re: At least their business plans are still excluded.

Quick question. Have you ever tried to monitor your bandwidth usage using the 95th percentile rule? I am curious to know how much someone who downloads 100G per month uses on a 30 day average.

Thanks.

Sean8

join:2004-01-23
Toronto

Re: At least their business plans are still excluded.

According to Google, it's under 320 Kbps.
jat

join:2008-04-28
Burlington, ON

Re: At least their business plans are still excluded.

95th percentile billing is not the same as average usage. If you use 5mbit more than 5% of the time, you get charged for 5mbit. In a 30 day billing period, that's only 36 hours, which could be as little as 80GB.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by Cravon:

I am over my cap by 40gb this month and was over 100gb last month. They haven't even cut me off for the usage like they threaten to do in the TOS. I am surprised more heavy users haven't switched over. Cogeco's business plans are safe for at least a few more months from overcharges.
you're their new cash cow. they're not going to cut you off.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
Cravon

join:2004-06-16
St Catharines, ON

Re: At least their business plans are still excluded.

Lets hope it stays that way. I used to get cut off the second I went over my cap on residential standard. Then again I bet they are killing that policy now that they make money by the GB.

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Double edged sword.

Were I a Cogeco customer I too would be checking my cable bandwidth regularly (like daily) to ensure that they are providing all the contractually agreed upon bandwidth.

If they charge you for going over, then you should hold them responsible when they provide less than the agreed upon bandwidth.

mattei
Moderated, now muzzled

join:2001-03-19
Canada

Re: Double edged sword.

"Up to" allows them to weasel out of quite a bit. Upstream "rate shaping" allows them to pad the bill.
Gruesome

join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON
said by axiomatic:

Were I a Cogeco customer I too would be checking my cable bandwidth regularly (like daily) to ensure that they are providing all the contractually agreed upon bandwidth.
This is another problem with their whole service, it leaves you with another thing to check, their service is more annoying than helpful

maartena
Elmo
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
said by axiomatic:

If they charge you for going over, then you should hold them responsible when they provide less than the agreed upon bandwidth.
The problem is that the agreement you have with pretty much any ISP.... does not contain a "agreed upon bandwidth" amount.

When they say "up to 15 Mbps", and it runs on 2 Mbps for 3 days because of technical problems, you don't have a leg to stand on.

You do hold a wallet though. And speaking with you wallet usually is the only way anyone will get the message.
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

NOCMan
MacChatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

And now you pay for spam

I think it's time to start suing ISP's for SPAM now that they want to take away unlimited Internet. Also I think new anti spam laws need to be made to address unsolicited traffic driving up customers metered broadband bills.
--
Play a Death Knight?
www.theebonhold.com
Gruesome

join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON

Re: And now you pay for spam

Not to mention that they throttle, and it has not officially been confirmed that if they are dropping packets on the upstream that you aren't paying for that too

meister_sd
Premium
join:2006-01-29
La Mesa, CA
kudos:7
We have an internet filter in place at my work, and I monitor it to see which user is hogging bandwidth and figuring out how to keep our internet usage for business purposes.

One thing I noticed is that a few sites caching a lot of files for "easier" browsing. While this is nice and all, people who are being monitored have no idea this is going on in the background and end up paying the price.

One user I worked with on identifying her usage showed me this scenario. I traced it to a photography site that downloaded in the background many of the pictures on the site. While it made it nice to look around and the load times were fast - she was tagged as a heavy user, even though she didn't look at many of the pictures. I ended up using wireshark to confirm this. I shut down every process that might download (win updates, adobe, etc..) and went to the main page of this site and watched wireshark show me how much of the site was downloaded, even without doing anything on the site.

If this kind of thing can happen, imaging having a couple of windows open to sites such as this, while checking email or something. You end up looking like your a mad man online, when in reality, you're not.

Gixxer

join:2008-08-27
St Catharines, ON
kudos:3

Meter Still Busted

They've had almost 6 months to fix the meter, it's still inaccurate and they don't even care.
--
I love fish sticks. I love putting fish sticks in my mouth.

Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
kudos:1

Re: Meter Still Busted

said by Gixxer:

They've had almost 6 months to fix the meter, it's still inaccurate and they don't even care.
Actually I PM'd you 2009-08-23 asking for more information about your specific bandwidth meter complaint on behalf of a co-worker who was investigating the matter and you ignored the PM so I wouldn't say "they don't even care".
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper

Gixxer

join:2008-08-27
St Catharines, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Bell Fibe
·Cogeco Cable

1 edit

Re: Meter Still Busted

said by Krispy:

Actually I PM'd you 2009-08-23 asking for more information about your specific bandwidth meter complaint on behalf of a co-worker who was investigating the matter and you ignored the PM so I wouldn't say "they don't even care".
Considering that I've already been suspended for an entire month, I simply saw you as a wolf in sheep's clothing and didn't want my account thrown back onto Cogeco's radar. Just for your information, I did reply saying just that but you still have me on ignore so the message didn't get through.

My statement stands, if Cogeco cared they wouldn't re-introduce UBB with a broken meter. Also, why should I help you? Are you going to pay me for my information if it helps the cause, will I get a credit on my monthly bill? With all the money Cogeco's making from UBB, they should hire some able programmers and designers and finally be done with this.

--
I love fish sticks. I love putting fish sticks in my mouth.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

ISPs, caps, and counters oh my

What really makes this an interesting situation is the simple fact that the end user's bandwidth counters will never match the ISP's counters. This is because the customer will have local LAN traffic that the ISP wont ever see.

And in the court of law I could present what my bandwidth counter said and what the ISPs said. Which one would be legally right? Should we trust the ISPs that their caps are 100% accurate, which, in the past it has been shown that they aren't so their creditability has been shattered?
The part here that should bake your noddle is that the customer can present evidence of all the traffic he downloaded via some sort of media (ie TB HD), but can the ISP provide the same thing to prove their counter is accurate? If so, then it begs the question what is the ISP logging, how much, and for how long? If not, then the cap and counter is useless because it can easily be defeated in the court of law by the customer presenting his bandwidth usage stats and a HD with all the data that he downloaded.

There is also the question of illegitimate traffic. Is the ISP counting this? If so, why? This is traffic that the end user did not want nor initiate, so therefore they shouldn't be charged for it. If not, then what do they consider "illegitimate"? Would my ping flood be "illegitimate" or would a DoS by a botnet of a 1000 bots be "illegitimate"?

So many questions, so many overages .
diskdocx

join:2005-09-26
Burlington, ON

Re: ISPs, caps, and counters oh my

Not sure you will have much of an argument regarding 'illegitimate' traffic.

Not to support Cogeco, but I'm not sure this is the ISP's responsibility.

If you have a fax machine, and get spam, you still have to pay for the paper/ink. If you get spam text messages on a cell phone, you still get charged.

You would have to track down and sue whoever originated that 'illegitimate' traffic.

I certainly DO NOT want the ISPs to start trying to block what they deem to be 'illegitimate' for my own 'protection'.

phunkysmell

@comcast.net

Re: ISPs, caps, and counters oh my

Wireless phone companies have been sued by customers (and lost) because they allowed unsolicited inbound SMS and charged their customers for it. Now they all have to provide user-configurable inbound SMS filters so users can filter or completely block SMS.

ISPs that have caps and overage charges should provide a user-configurable SPI firewall on the ISP side to prevent/filter unsolicited traffic (where you can select certain services allowed inbound like remote desktop or tunneling protocols). Right now you can only filter that on your end, but the traffic still comes over your cable/DSL modem before getting blocked by your own firewall (so it still counts against your cap).
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
said by diskdocx:

Not sure you will have much of an argument regarding 'illegitimate' traffic.

Not to support Cogeco, but I'm not sure this is the ISP's responsibility.

If you have a fax machine, and get spam, you still have to pay for the paper/ink. If you get spam text messages on a cell phone, you still get charged.

You would have to track down and sue whoever originated that 'illegitimate' traffic.

I certainly DO NOT want the ISPs to start trying to block what they deem to be 'illegitimate' for my own 'protection'.
I didn't propose it as an argument, but as a rhetoric.

And actually although its not written in fine print, carriers will usually credit you on your bill if you get spam text BUT they claim they can't "block" the text. Tsk tsk. Develop a network and can't control it? Sounds kind of fishy don't you think?

And I agree, no ISP should be tasked with what it believes to be "illegitimate". But, what is stopping me from me and a bunch of friends running ping on his IP address? Even though his computer may be off, he will still get packets. The only way he can make sure he wont get charged is to yank power from the cable modem. I do not believe a customer should have to do that to make sure they don't get a hefty charge. Truth of the matter is that SSH brute force attaches are a common occurrence, should he be held responsible for that?

Does UDP packets count against your cap? What about IPX? Someone should call them out and ask if they count IPX traffic against the cap.
What if someone is trying to employ the same tatic that Skype uses to bypass firewalls to try to get into your network?

All I can say is that if a local ISP employed this same "low cap" I would present these same questions to my congress people and see what they think. I am sure they would not be happy.
titoyay222
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Cincinnati, OH

charges

I'm glad I don't have this ISP. I think they should at least account for online advertising and all of that crap you have to download when your browsing websites.
Gruesome

join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON

Cogeco

All you need do is look at this company's trending satisfaction survey to get the picture

tomcat2200

join:2009-09-28
Portland, OR

This is what happens...

When your own employees realize you are an unethical operator and a bad corporate citizen, guess what???

Perhaps they can't decide if they are an internet provider, or an entertainment provider. Ever wonder what happens when TV interests override internet offerings?

Exactly this kind of garbage.

With pressure from companies like SONY and other media wannabe execs, it becomes obvious that net neutrality is NOT their primary concern. Media companies don't become ISP's to provide new conduits for public access or product delivery. They do it to strangle profits from the public one way or another, regardless of product quality.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Stange

If their meter doesn't work, then how do they know what the overage is?

If they are using some secret special meter to calculate your overage, why do they not give you access to it? Every cell phone company already does this for their customers.

I do not know what the laws in Canada are but in the USA you cannot just send people arbitrary bills for random things. Could this activity be challenged in the Canadian court system?
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

alamarco
Premium
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON

Re: Stange

There is a meter that you can access online, but it's inaccurate as people who use their own bandwidth meters are finding them off by 1-6 GB. Sometimes even more.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..

Modem overhead?

Have Cogenco figured a way to filter out charging for broadband traffic generated by the modem overhead? It was pointed out in a previous post that a Cable Modem may create in the neighborhood of 3+GB of traffic monthly if left on continuously.
backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

Re: Modem overhead?

I would ask for an IP level print out of ALL the connections from and to my modem.

Make sure it is sent in paper form!

Gixxer

join:2008-08-27
St Catharines, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Bell Fibe
·Cogeco Cable
said by Mr Matt:

Have Cogenco figured a way to filter out charging for broadband traffic generated by the modem overhead? It was pointed out in a previous post that a Cable Modem may create in the neighborhood of 3+GB of traffic monthly if left on continuously.
I think they have, but considering how inaccurate the bandwidth meter can be some-days, who knows. A few times it dead on accurate to my router/bw meter and others is completely dead off.
--
I love fish sticks. I love putting fish sticks in my mouth.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

1 edit

hey cogeco user

hi there whats your ip again ....hehe

i'll be someone is blasting the range of cogeco ips with somehting they are reading as data....

o hyea show me a windows xp or vista home bandwidth limiter that works and has admin pass so you can install and control each machine on a home network.

SORRY not there, no open source for that for windows, go figure so more your going ot have to pay. AND do the paying ones work?

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

Re: hey cogeco user

You need to think before posting Chronoss.Youmakes no sence again.

andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

if it is broke dont charge

Its as simple as that.I dont believe even 1 Canadian ISP has a functioning acurate meter.This leaves the doors open to many lawsuits and hopefully people take advantage of that.Meter billing is is just plain dumb at thier prices.
cptmiles
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN

95th percentile

If a company is going to charge for how much Internet a sub uses why don't they use the same model they get charged for from the larger carriers...i.e. the 95th percentile rule?

Give everyone as much bandwidth as the line can supply, charge them a transport fee...say $30 which includes 3Mbps average and then charge overage based on the average monthly usage.

This makes more sense to me than to try and cap on exactly how much data is downloaded in a month.

For those of you who download 100G per month I would love to know what your stats would be using the 95th percentile rule.

anonsicles

@teksavvy.com

whew

Glad I left back in May as soon as they announced this garbage, but that was simply the last straw. Cogeco managed to go from having a completely satisfied long-time customer to the exact opposite in one short year thanks to dpi, hard caps and repeated rate hikes. Ridiculous price-gouging overage charges are just too much for anybody with a clue about these services and value. And a questionable meter on top is only rubbing salt on things.

Going from 10mbps cable to 3.5mbps dsl is a hit that takes getting used to, but you know what? I don't have to be paranoid about the usage levels on my home network anymore and its a glorious feeling.

You know internet in this country is tanking hardcore when you have to downgrade your speeds just to get back the sort of service you already had in the first place - and even that is being threatened by the clowns in the CRTC now. The same friends in Europe who were jealous of my 10mbit 6 years ago are now cruising by in 100mbit FTTH for $45/month.
Wes C Addle
Man Of The Hour

join:2003-07-28
Canada

cogeco

what a piece of shit company this is, i tell everyone i know in hamilton to stay away from them

JulyMan

@cgocable.net

Re: cogeco

if you feel that way about cogeco, why dont you try Rogers or Bell and deal with the hiding fees
anonyme0897

join:2007-08-25
Quebec, Cana

Mac cloning

Maybe the reason why some people get accurate readings some days and overestimated the other day is because the modem's MAC address have been cloned for that day. The people that use hacked modems to connect to Cogeco's network can change mac everyday to avoid getting caught.

Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
kudos:1

Re: Mac cloning

said by anonyme0897:

Maybe the reason why some people get accurate readings some days and overestimated the other day is because the modem's MAC address have been cloned for that day. The people that use hacked modems to connect to Cogeco's network can change mac everyday to avoid getting caught.
We monitor that (seriously, just because you haven't gotten a knock at your door yet doesn't mean we don't know where you are) and have a process to remove them from the equation.
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper

me122232

@cgocable.net

Cogeco Blows

CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.....REFUNDS IN THE MAIL!!

JulyMan

@cgocable.net

Good Change - Know your limit

Strongly believe this is the Best thing coming from Cogeco. If you go over what you are paying for, they have every right to charge you for going over your monthly limit. Take Rogers and Bell for example, they have hiding fees and charges if you go over your limit. So why crying out when it comes to bite you in the ASS....
metrotitan

join:2008-11-21

Re: Good Change - Know your limit

Whether I'm told I'll be raped beforehand or it happens by surprise, that doesn't make it any better.
geminii7

join:2005-09-19
Sarnia, ON
R u kidding me? Boy did u miss the boat on this one.....and btw THIS IS NOT WHAT I WAS PAYING FOR WHEN I SIGNED ON!!!

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