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story category Comcast: 2007 & DOCSIS 3.0
Trials to get underway soon...
(old news - 03:20PM Wednesday May 02 2007)
tags: business · bandwidth · cable
Comcast CEO Brian Roberts stated three months ago that the cable giant had "plenty of capacity" for the next 6-12 months. The next step, of course, is to upgrade the network to DOCSIS 3.0; Roberts has stated 2007 is the targeted year for the upgrades to begin, though significant deployment realistically probably won't happen until 2008. Our forum users have sloshed through the rumors and Comcast tech whispers, with their best guess on the first trial speeds being something like 16Mbps/2Mbps this June, in Denver.

Though he doesn't say where, Comcast CTO Tony Werner this week again confirms trials will begin in 2007 with deployment in 2008. It's fairly obvious at this point that deployments will be targeted at regions where Verizon has already deployed FiOS residential fiber service. On top of DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades, the company will use node splits, digital optimization, "bandwidth hog" caps and switched digital video (SDV) to manage bandwidth.

Of course, users will need new modems, and there's the nagging fact that the standard hasn't been certified yet (though pre-cert deployments are occurring globally). A recent study predicted that by 2011, DOCSIS 3.0 CMTS use will be at 60% and DOCSIS 3.0 CPEs (modems, set-tops, eMTAs, etc.) will only be in 40% of cable broadband subscriber homes. Customers of less deep-pocketed providers like Charter probably shouldn't hold their breath.

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Forums » Comcast: 2007 & DOCSIS 3.0
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Post a:
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL

1 edit

Caps

This is probably why they are strict at capping bandwidth. When they release 3.0 DOCSIS, they will probably increase the cap size.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Caps

Or drop it all together; leaving the wording in the TOS/AUP but simply not enforcing it.
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net

Re: Caps

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Or drop it all together; leaving the wording in the TOS/AUP but simply not enforcing it.
Good luck with that.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Caps

Expect a more expensive cable bill due to 'programming charges'

BloodRoses
Gods lend wings to tainted hearts
Premium
join:2003-03-17
clubs:

1 edit
Or changing it from 200 GB to 20, still leaving their wording vague and meaningless. They sell speed, not capacity... right?
--
Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:

Re: Caps

They're selling the ability for data flow to and from your site to your destination. How can you sell speed, without the capacity for something to travel at that speed?

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Caps

Easy...cancel anyone who uses the speed for anything other than email and surfing.

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
Sure. Right after they set off on a Grail Quest, preceded by a formation of pigs taking off from in front of Comcast Headquarters.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Fibre

Where's all the fibre fanboys?

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

2 edits

Re: Fibre

Probably jerkin it to a picture of a Tellabs 1600-611

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:

1 edit

Re: Fibre

to a hayes 300 baud modem, over here. good times!
dr2500

join:2005-09-09
Lancaster, PA
I'm here! DOCSIS better make it to 6.0 before we start comparing it to Fibre!!

Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:

Re: Fibre

said by dr2500 See Profile :

I'm here! DOCSIS better make it to 6.0 before we start comparing it to Fibre!!
No.
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
dr2500

join:2005-09-09
Lancaster, PA

Re: Fibre

No?

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

1 edit

Re: Fibre

dup post

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA


1 edit
Verizon's ONT can do about 600Mbps down and 155Mbps up according to Tellabs. Video is listed as being a different 'channel' on the Tellabs site so I don't know if the video is included in the 600+Mb capacity or if that 600Mb would be for all of the other non-video services they could offer. DOCSIS3 would have to bond quite a few channels to get that throughput. In any event neither Comcast nor Verizon are going to offer services that will saturate DOCSIS3 or the current FiOS ONT any time soon. DOCSIS3 will be plenty to compete with fiber for the foreseeable future.
dr2500

join:2005-09-09
Lancaster, PA

Re: Fibre

DOCSIS 3.0 is not gigabit.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

2 edits

Re: Fibre

Neither is Verizon's ONT according to Tellabs who makes at least some of the ONTs Verizon uses (1600 series). Like cable, the fiber in the street isn't the restriction...it's the equipment on each end.
dr2500

join:2005-09-09
Lancaster, PA

Re: Fibre

True...But with GPON being deployed that will change.
I'm a Comcast user and can't wait for the deployment of 3.0 and all the new services that come along with it like smart home monitoring. 3.0 will be a good thing for the cable industry.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Fibre

And then cablelabs will cert something new to counter it.

But for us, it's what the consumers are actually seeing that matters. Brian Roberts can crow all he wants about DOCSIS3 but I'll believe it when I see it and support it when it's not being followed with more nastygrams to customers who would dare actually use it.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Verizon's ONT can do about 600Mbps down and 155Mbps up according to Tellabs. Video is listed as being a different 'channel' on the Tellabs site so I don't know if the video is included in the 600+Mb capacity or if that 600Mb would be for all of the other non-video services they could offer. DOCSIS3 would have to bond quite a few channels to get that throughput. In any event neither Comcast nor Verizon are going to offer services that will saturate DOCSIS3 or the current FiOS ONT any time soon. DOCSIS3 will be plenty to compete with fiber for the foreseeable future.
VOD is IP and eats at the 622, and that 622/155 is shared with upto 32 users (more like 8 in real world 1.5-1.25 fibers per family/house, and only 10-20% of users who are passed subscribe).

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Fibre

I thought that the network terminal box (622/155) was a per house device.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Fibre

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

I thought that the network terminal box (622/155) was a per house device.
Remember with a PON (passive optical network), the fiber is split upto 32 customers/families/accounts/houses. Its similar to cable HFC, but the ratios (1:32) couples with thearetically "infinity/32" bandwidth per house makes FIOS/a PON, much much better than HFC.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
Took 'em long enough.

»it's not gonna keep me from switching
tlcbob

join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA
Fiber Fanboy here! Already have FIOS at 15/2 for $39.95.

Just as Cable goes 16M - FIOS will "Flip the switch" to 30 or 50 Meg. Maybe even symmetrical!!

Look out cable - your technology is limited, based on your wire!

imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..

Re: Fibre

said by tlcbob See Profile :

Look out cable - your technology is limited, based on your wire!
No it's not.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA


1 edit
said by tlcbob See Profile :

Fiber Fanboy here! Already have FIOS at 15/2 for $39.95.

Just as Cable goes 16M - FIOS will "Flip the switch" to 30 or 50 Meg. Maybe even symmetrical!!

Look out cable - your technology is limited, based on your wire!
And DOCSIS 3 cable operators will 'flip the switch' too. DOCSIS3 and current fiber HW from the likes of Verizon are similar in capability. The 1600 series ONTs can do around 600Mb down and 155Mb up and with channel bonding DOCSIS3 should be able to do that and possibly more.

Question is which will actually happen first; wide DOCSIS 3 deployment or flying pigs.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by tlcbob See Profile :

Fiber Fanboy here! Already have FIOS at 15/2 for $39.95.

Just as Cable goes 16M - FIOS will "Flip the switch" to 30 or 50 Meg. Maybe even symmetrical!!

Look out cable - your technology is limited, based on your wire!
They'll NEVER do symmetrical on res service, that would hurt VZs LUCRATIVE biz packages.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: Fibre

Why? They don't share availability (in that biz can't get res services). They already have price differences for identical services between res and biz.
tlcbob

join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA
Actually, I looked into FIOS for business and the major difference is CSR (committed service rate) - the amount of guaranteed uptime. Basically, you pay for priority service - makes sense.

DaBavarian
Premium
join:2006-02-22
Saginaw, MI

Poor Local Cable Co.....Verizon will act like Cable's older brother....Verizon will be holding the cookie above Cable's head just enough so cable can't reach it. Now matter what Cabel does, Fiber will ALWAYS be better as it is the wire of the future.

LeftOfSanity

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE

Re: Fibre

said by DaBavarian See Profile :

Poor Local Cable Co.....Verizon will act like Cable's older brother....Verizon will be holding the cookie above Cable's head just enough so cable can't reach it. Now matter what Cabel does, Fiber will ALWAYS be better as it is the wire of the future.
Lol..fanboy's. Good Stuff.

You think you have it all down pat huh? Got some inside info?

Oh yea...Fiber is not a 'wire'. lol

Educate yourself before pushing it.
cablepon

join:2007-06-04
Dothan, AL

You might be right on Verizon flipping the swith but with only 122Mbps per 32 customers you can only get close to 4Mbps upload. Verizon will not be doing a 1x32 split to accomplish that. Cable companies are looking at the Docsis 3.0 along with spectrum overlay. A test was completed in Canada a few months ago and they were able to do 142Mbps symmetrical to the customers home.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

switched digital video?

How long before you get caped for watching to much tv?
Will PVP uses face the same thing?

See 10 replies to this post

Defiance82
Computer Elite
Premium
join:2002-09-11
Reeds Spring, MO
clubs:

Pfft

Pfft and half the nation is still on DOCSIS 1.x. They should upgrade the old crap first..
--
Programming is like sex. One mistake - endless support.

Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

Re: Pfft

said by Defiance82 See Profile :

Pfft and half the nation is still on DOCSIS 1.x. They should upgrade the old crap first..
The reason that they are still on 1.x is because with 3.0 right around the corner, why should they upgrade to 2.0? On the other side is there is little to no competition so they don't have to raise speeds. Recently FiOS has become a threat to some so they are now upgrading to keep their customers.

said by Article :

Our forum users have sloshed through the rumors and Comcast tech whispers, with their best guess on the first trial speeds being something like 16Mbps/2Mbps this June, in Denver.
COME ON BABY, BRING THE 16/2 TO DENVER!!!! "can't sleep, clowns will eat me..."

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Pfft

said by Cjaiceman See Profile :

said by Defiance82 See Profile :

Pfft and half the nation is still on DOCSIS 1.x. They should upgrade the old crap first..
The reason that they are still on 1.x is because with 3.0 right around the corner, why should they upgrade to 2.0? On the other side is there is little to no competition so they don't have to raise speeds. Recently FiOS has become a threat to some so they are now upgrading to keep their customers.

said by Article :

Our forum users have sloshed through the rumors and Comcast tech whispers, with their best guess on the first trial speeds being something like 16Mbps/2Mbps this June, in Denver.
COME ON BABY, BRING THE 16/2 TO DENVER!!!! "can't sleep, clowns will eat me..."
heck the current network can handle that!
I would want at least 25000/15000 before having to buy new hardware(modem).
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

heathcpe

join:2002-03-19
Brandon, MS
Our cable system was at 2.0, but then Comcast bought it and rolled it back to 1.x. Go figure.
compton

join:2002-02-08
Brooklyn, NY

Docsis 3.0 speed

What speeds can Docsis 3.0 attain?

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast


1 edit

Re: Docsis 3.0 speed

said by compton See Profile :

What speeds can Docsis 3.0 attain?
»www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2006/0···706.html

160 mbps / 120 mbps minimum top speeds, with higher rates possible.

Of course, real life offered speeds will be less than that.

Here is the link to all the specs:
»www.cablemodem.com/specification···s30.html
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page

Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:

Re: Docsis 3.0 speed

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by compton See Profile :

What speeds can Docsis 3.0 attain?
»www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2006/0···706.html

160 mbps / 120 mbps minimum top speeds, with higher rates possible.

Of course, real life offered speeds will be less than that.

Here is the link to all the specs:
»www.cablemodem.com/specification···s30.html
just to add to TCH...you get 160 Mbps downstream on one channel and then 120 Mbps upstream on a second channel. They can take that and double it by adding an additional upstream and downstream channel which makes it 320/240...then they can add another 480/360 and they can do that as many times as they want as long as they have the RF spectrum available...thank God for channel bonding!
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
Chainzz
Aka Snippy

join:2004-07-26
Amherstburg, ON

Re: Docsis 3.0 speed

said by Loker See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by compton See Profile :

just to add to TCH...you get 160 Mbps downstream on one channel and then 120 Mbps upstream on a second channel. They can take that and double it by adding an additional upstream and downstream channel which makes it 320/240...then they can add another 480/360 and they can do that as many times as they want as long as they have the RF spectrum available...thank God for channel bonding!
You stand correct....now look at it this way! 1ghz network / 6 mhz for channel spacing = about 166 channels now do the math on the bandwidth!
--
Truth has one destination, But many paths!

TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL

Cool...

...They can oversubscribe a larger area with this.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Cool...

said by TechieZero See Profile :

...They can oversubscribe a larger area with this.
I'm assuming you didn't read the statement placed out? or just having a little fun in a discussion forum?

"On top of DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades, the company will use node splits, digital optimization, "bandwidth hog" caps and switched digital video (SDV) to manage bandwidth."

.. all pretty useful information for expansion plans except for Karl's usual slant and spin.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

it's not gonna keep me from switching

comcast can do anything they want, when FIOS is available in my area I'm dropping comcast broadband like a hot potato.

They have one chance to keep my business: match or exceed FIOS speed at a lower price. And I mean $5 or $10/month lower, not $0.50 or $1 lower. Even then I might not stay with comcast.

DeeplyShrouded

@comcast.net

Re: it's not gonna keep me from switching

I woke up this morning to no internet connection.
I had an AMBIT 6067, the black flat one with Comcast on
the front of it.
I called Comcast and they said I had to return the modem for
a new one.
I was curious as to why, when my net connection was working
last night.
The tech said they were upgrading the area and some of the
modems weren't taking new config files.
So I returned the AMBIT 6067 and got a black Motorola
Surfboard SB5120.
When I got it home, they pushed a new config file, and
I was back online.
I had a bit of trouble getting the router to work, but
unplugging both for a minute and plugging them back in
modem first, then router, then booting the PC fixed it.

I'm curious as to what I'm being upgraded to, since I
already have the 8MB service.

How do I see the new configuration and does anyone know
of any free speed increases in the works besides Powerboost?

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49

InGreenwood

@rr.com

Re: it's not gonna keep me from switching

»www.ambitbroadband.com/download/···heet.pdf

Is this it? it looks like it is a DOCSIS 1.0 modem.

»broadband.motorola.com/consumers···5120.pdf

The surfboard looks to be DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0 certified.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

sweet ;p

Glad to hear that FIOS will get some competition. Then both companies will have to compete on other things, like data caps and customer service.

OverMtched

@ppgecm.com

Re: sweet ;p

Just look at Phyflex or the old Narad Networks. Hear it kicks butt!

OverMtched

@ppgecm.com
ANyone look at Phyflex (old Narad Networks)?

odreian615

join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

I'm no Comcast fanboy but this is good

It will force FTTH from Att and other players I say bring it on

Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast

Re: I'm no Comcast fanboy but this is good

said by odreian615 See Profile :

It will force FTTH from Att and other players I say bring it on
yea ahahhahaha don't make me laugh.
--
YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon.
dr2500

join:2005-09-09
Lancaster, PA

Remember

A poorly designed network is not always an easy one to fix.
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY

why +do they need 16/2 for docsis 3?

They dont need docsis 3 to do 16/2 . Cablevision is doing 15/2 with docsis 1.1 and 30/2 with docsis 2.0

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: why +do they need 16/2 for docsis 3?

They can't do 8/768 without cancelling people who actually use the service as it is and those who are willing to pay for faster speeds like 30Mb are more likely to be those who would use it.

Irish Shark
Play Like A Champion Today
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-29
Las Vegas, NV

Re: why +do they need 16/2 for docsis 3?

There are zip, zero, niltch, nada reports by any one on BOOST who has been capped or cancelled.
--
"You can observe a lot by watching". Yogi Berra

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA


1 edit

Re: why +do they need 16/2 for docsis 3?

There are plenty of instances of Comcast cancelling HSI users for excessive use. There is no indication that boost provisioned areas are immune from TOS/AUP enforcement and Comcast is known for having periods of time where no enforcement seems to occur just to have it start up again.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL

A bandage for a gaping wound.

quote:
On top of DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades, the company will use node splits, digital optimization, "bandwidth hog" caps and switched digital video (SDV) to manage bandwidth.
Broadband usages and needs are now increasing along with PC power. The only network that can keep pace is Fiber To The Premise.

Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ

Right...

I doubt they are successful at this.

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Right...

Depends on how you measure success. Comcast's customers are their shareholders, and that's who they aim to please. The folks who use Comcast products/services are subscribers, and they generally not too satisfied. »articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Sa···ame.aspx

As long as Roberts keeps painting a rosy picture for investors, I think they'll keep their customers satisfied. Though I agree with your assessment when it comes to Comcast subscribers.

LeftOfSanity

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE

Re: Right...

said by JTRockville See Profile :

Depends on how you measure success. Comcast's customers are their shareholders, and that's who they aim to please. The folks who use Comcast products/services are subscribers, and they generally not too satisfied. »articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Sa···ame.aspx

As long as Roberts keeps painting a rosy picture for investors, I think they'll keep their customers satisfied. Though I agree with your assessment when it comes to Comcast subscribers.
Well, by that, I'm a customer and a subscriber.

And do you think the investors only listen to Roberts?

There is always going to be customers unsatisfied..goes with the territory.
Forums » Comcast: 2007 & DOCSIS 3.0


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