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Comcast Appeals FCC Throttling Ruling
As promised, begins what could be a landmark case...

While a lot was been made of the FCC's investigation and Comcast's shift to a "protocol agnostic" network management system, the recent FCC order (pdf) didn't actually punish Comcast, didn't request they do anything they didn't plan to do voluntarily, and might not even be enforceable in court anyway. While Comcast is voluntarily shifting from controversial packet forgery to a new 250GB cap and targeted throttling, the company has never admitted any wrong doing, and has long hinted they'd challenge the FCC's legal authority.

As we've discussed, the FCC's network neutrality principles (pdf) are not law, and aren't particularly tough -- largely because a well-lobbied FCC designed them that way. This was the first time anyone had violated them. As they had promised, Comcast today appealed (pdf filing) the FCC's recent ruling. While they plan to comply with the FCC's desire for more transparency, Comcast clearly wants to keep the FCC out of future network management plans.

"We filed this appeal in order to protect our legal rights and to challenge the basis on which the [FCC] found that Comcast violated federal policy in the absence of pre-existing legally enforceable standards or rules," says Comcast executive vice president David L. Cohen. According to Cohen, the FCC's recent ruling "was legally inappropriate and its findings were not justified by the record."

Consumer advocates have strongly disagreed with the argument that the FCC doesn't have the authority to police Comcast. "Comcast is wrong," says Free Press attorney Marvin Ammori. "Comcast is not above the law -- in fact, the Commission has asserted eight different bases for its authority, and every one of these asserted bases independently confers Title I authority."

Gentlemen, start your lawyers.
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Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC

Ikarasu

Member

:\

Good ol Comcast... didn't they try this before, saying FCC has no authority over them?

Should be interesting to see how their appeal goes. I hope Comcast gets told that FCC does have authority... maybe then they'll watch what they do secretly.

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium Member
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

baineschile

Premium Member

Re: :\

Lobbyists are right; comcast is not above the law. But, seeing as there are no laws against sending forged packets, or throttling speeds...
Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC

Ikarasu

Member

Re: :\

Depends on how you interpret the law.

If I made phone calls to a buncha people, spoofing my caller ID into your phone #, It'd be identity theft.

Comcast sending fake packets you did not initiate, could be viewed the same way.

But then again, Packet inspection should be labeled a invasion of privacy...and so far it isn't, so it's all just "Could bes" until/if a court decides.

Either way... I hope comcast loses in the appeal, throttling is one thing, forging packets is another.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

1 edit

1 recommendation

axus to baineschile

Member

to baineschile
There's no law saying I need an ID to board an airplane, but here we are

nipseyrussel
Nipsey Russell, yo
join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA

nipseyrussel

Member

Re: :\

i was under the impression that there is such a law...but its secret and you cant see it.
welcome to the dystopian future
»www.papersplease.org/gil ··· cts.html

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5 to Ikarasu

Premium Member

to Ikarasu
said by Ikarasu:

Good ol Comcast... didn't they try this before, saying FCC has no authority over them?
Yes. And the FCC lost in the Appeals Court.

Comcast is likely to prevail again. The FCC has a dismal record in the Appeals Court of the District of Columbia Circuit.

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

1 recommendation

Steve B

Premium Member

Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

Throwing money at a congress person or senator to 'buy' their vote needs to be outlawed, plain and simple.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

Ain't going to happen. You could expect EVERY lobbyist in the country to lobby against it.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Steve B

Premium Member

to Steve B
said by Steve B:

Throwing money at a congress person or senator to 'buy' their vote needs to be outlawed, plain and simple.
And what has that to do with an appeal of a ruling in a Federal Appeals Court. There is no lobbying the Appeals Court. They will decide how they decide.

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

Steve B

Premium Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

I was just making a comment about lobbying in general since the article mentioned it. That's all.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4 to Steve B

Member

to Steve B
said by Steve B:

Throwing money at a congress person or senator to 'buy' their vote needs to be outlawed, plain and simple.
Why shouldn't companies be allowed to present their positions to elected representatives?

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

said by EPS4:
said by Steve B:

Throwing money at a congress person or senator to 'buy' their vote needs to be outlawed, plain and simple.
Why shouldn't companies be allowed to present their positions to elected representatives?
are you saying "present" = $$
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

1 recommendation

EPS4

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

Well if a company feels that a candidate or politican's positions will further its interests, why shouldn't said company be permitted to donate funds to aid in that candidate's campaign?

Of course, if you outlawed corporations from making said contributions you would just have the CEOs / directors / etc. making the donations instead, which is their Supreme Court-granted right under the Constitution.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

2 recommendations

NormanS

MVM

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

My idea of campaign finance reform: Only registered voters can contribute, and only up to 5% of their Adjusted Gross Income on their 1040 forms.
NormanS

NormanS to EPS4

MVM

to EPS4
said by EPS4:
said by Steve B:

Throwing money at a congress person or senator to 'buy' their vote needs to be outlawed, plain and simple.
Why shouldn't companies be allowed to present their positions to elected representatives?
Because companies don't vote in the election of the representatives. Those "elected" representatives are supposed to represent the electorate; common voters such as you and I.
jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM

jarthur31 to EPS4

Member

to EPS4
Because corporations don't vote so what should they have an inside track to what the populace wants???

Remember, it's: We the People........

Well it used to be.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

A corporation is simply a legal fiction created by, owned by, and maintained by... you guessed it, People.

NetAdmin1
CCNA
join:2008-05-22

2 recommendations

NetAdmin1

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

said by EPS4:

A corporation is simply a legal fiction created by, owned by, and maintained by... you guessed it, People.
However, not all people... As well, the corporations I may have invested my money in certainly don't always take the same stance on certain issues that I do.

Corporations are not legal citizens, either, and can not be held accountable the same way that an ordinary citizen who votes can, so their voice should not be allow to be heard via bribes lobbying.

When the legal person that is the corporation can be drafted for war, arrested and imprisoned, and held to the same legal and ethical standards of every corporeal person, then maybe they should be allowed to influence politics.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

NormanS to EPS4

MVM

to EPS4
Corporations don't represent the People, only the Investors. They should not be given the powers of the People; unless you want to hold the CEOs of corporations criminally, and civilly responsible for the actions of the corporations.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

In some cases CEOs can be held responsible for corporate activities.

The Supreme Court has ruled that giving money to candidates is a form of speech that is protected under the Constitution. Are you saying that corporations should be denied the rights of free speech? That sets a dangerous precedent for censorship... "I'm sorry, this newspaper is owned by the New York Times Company, so it's not covered by the right of free press, we're shutting it down" Am I now taking the argument to ridiculous levels? Of course...
lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA

lordofwhee

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

Ah, but did the company WRITE that paper? No, it didn't. People did. Legal citizens whose rights are 'guaranteed'. Therefore, the newspaper IS a form of speech, as it was the people themselves who wrote it.

However, a corporation giving bribes to their favorite candidate is NOT an act of people, it is the act of an entity which cannot vote, and yet is given the same rights as any legal citizen (barring said ability to vote, of course). Why should they be able to vote with money?
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

1 recommendation

EPS4

Member

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

A corporation is a group of people pooling their resources for the common interests, nothing more. Of course a corporation wouldn't have the right to vote, because each member of the group of people whose resources are being pooled already has the right to vote as an individual, and you could get extra votes just by starting up shell companies, so obviously a bad idea there.

If you say that the "corporation" can not donate money to favored candidates, then instead people involved with the corporation will donate money to the same candidates for the same interests. Maybe the board will up their compensation a bit to make up for it.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

Re: Lobbying Needs to Be Outlawed....

said by EPS4:

If you say that the "corporation" can not donate money to favored candidates, then instead people involved with the corporation will donate money to the same candidates for the same interests.
Only up to 5% of their Adjusted Gross Incomes.
Maybe the board will up their compensation a bit to make up for it.
Maybe; but I suspect that it would take more than "a bit" to matter. And wouldn't the strings attached to the added compensation be a wonderful sound bite for the news folks!
NormanS

NormanS to EPS4

MVM

to EPS4
said by EPS4:

The Supreme Court has ruled that giving money to candidates is a form of speech that is protected under the Constitution. Are you saying that corporations should be denied the rights of free speech?
<sarcasm>Then we should give the right to vote to corporations, don't you think?</sarcasm>

Seriously, a corporation is not a person, regardless of fictional attributes of personhood. Putting a corporation on the same level as I am on is outrageous.

Might as well scrap the Constitution, and give over the government to the corporate interests.

Pv8man999
@wideopenwest.com

Pv8man999 to Steve B

Anon

to Steve B
Yes, I agree, vote obama then.

Don't be fooled by the hot librarian looking VP, compare the policy differences for yourself and do your own fact checking.

SlickEnW
Premium Member
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA

1 edit

1 recommendation

SlickEnW

Premium Member

Dear Fcc:

Dear Fcc,

I speak for the children of America. Those who are still learning their ABC's and what not, figuring out what life is all about. Please kill Comcast before they destroy the internet as we know it. If you don't hand their ass to them, at the very least, help Telco's all around the nation spread their joyous pipe across the land. Subsidize costs for new equipment and make it a viable option to topple the beast that is Crap/Cap/Comcast, so that Americas future doesn't consist of idiotic "FanCast" services , and that we may continue to do what we want, when we want on this vast series of tubes.

Thanks.
Rob2647
join:2008-08-12
Rochester, MI

Rob2647

Member

Re: Dear Fcc:

I can't agree more.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to SlickEnW

Member

to SlickEnW
Why should the Feds help the telcos expand? They don't help Time Warner, Comcast or the cable company i use. They all build out with PRIVATE money. If a telco wants to compete they should with their own money.

Don't like it don't use Comcast.

mod_wastrel
anonome
join:2008-03-28

mod_wastrel

Member

Dear Comcast...

would you like a little cheese with that whine?

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

Assume that Comcast wins...

Even though it appears that the FCC had the authority, let's assume that the FCC didn't have the authority for the sake of an argument, and that Comcast wins this appeal.

The very next thing that will happen is that Congress will pass -- at a very minimum -- legislation that puts the FCC's current policy into law and that gives the FCC whatever power that it needs to do what it did. Both Democrats and Republicans have offered to sponsor -that- bill, and Martin told them it wasn't necessary. It's going to happen.

But, more than the minimum, it's likely that an even bigger debate will emerge, and the result won't be as flexible as the minimalist policy that we have now. That's just bad for Comcast.

When Comcast lost the FCC case, it won. The FCC basically said it had to do the things that Comcast said it would do anyway, and it failed to punish.

If Comcast wins this appeal, it loses. The resulting government reactions will put more restraints on Comcast and its buddies.

I'm not sure who to root for.
jaminus
join:2004-10-14
Arlington, VA

jaminus

Member

Re: Bah

You make a very good point. Comcast, presumably, thinks it can get off without any net neutrality law at all. And maybe it can--considering not a single piece of neutrality legislation has even made it out of committee, it's clear that Congress is at least somewhat insulated from the whims of the "manage your network the way I say you should" crowd.

TIGERON
join:2008-03-11
Boston, MA
Motorola MG7550

1 recommendation

TIGERON

Member

Go To Hell Comcast

After speaking with so many former subscribers that were lied to and kicked off for that pathetic hidden bandwidth limit that Comcast had heavily enforced, its about time the FCC goes after them and the government gets involved.
Without regulation, this is how greedy corporations become monopolies that give very little but get away with a lot.
Expand your moderator at work

Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA

Dagda1175

Member

This is good.....For both sides

Once there is actual case law and precedent is set then further arguments from either side will have the strengh of this case to back them up -whichever way it goes.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

No new laws are needed......

The FCC clearly is the agency to handle all broadband/communication issues
I think the problem with the FCC's case is that they are trying to enforce, their own statement of principals, for which they failed to create rules to backup/notify industry members of their rights and responsabilities, within those principals.
it's fine for the board to have beliefs/ideas of a policy, but until they go through the rulemaking process, how is comcast or any other player/provider, supposed to know which rules apply to them?

n0vnm5
join:2006-08-27
Universal City, TX

n0vnm5

Member

Re: No new laws are needed......

I think the FCC should force all telecommunications companies to update their outdated equipment. This would in-turn allow them to lift their data caps off of their 'supposedly' unlimited internet service.

I have never used more than 12 GB in one month, but my broadband company sends threatening letters when I go over 5 GB per month. Oh. It's Sprint. As soon as I can get a different broadband provider, Sprint is gone. Contract ended in June.

Switeck
@comcast.net

Switeck

Anon

Enforce existing laws

I called up ComCast Tech Support in August and they still deny disrupting internet traffic, even though they still continue to do so.

Even if what they are doing is completely legal, lying about it shouldn't be!

chronoss20081
Premium Member
join:2008-03-29

chronoss20081

Premium Member

enforcement

lying about anyhting while you are representing a company
is called

"MISREPRESENTATION"

and if the problem is bad enough could lead to a lawsuit and these are the kinds that are usually class actionable.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: enforcement

said by chronoss20081:

lying about anyhting while you are representing a company
is called

"MISREPRESENTATION"

and if the problem is bad enough could lead to a lawsuit and these are the kinds that are usually class actionable.
The people on the phone are not lying they are ignorant. Case dismissed.

I had a Cablevision CSR tell me I had fiber to the premise. I think she actually believed it from watching CATV commercials.

cmatties
Only the strong will survive. HAHA
join:2005-03-04
Green Springs, OH

cmatties

Member

comcast sucks

I'm going to be the First to say that i am very surprised that comcast rick hasn't replied yet in defending comcast.

second comcast is the greediest of all cable company's. I have been on RR for that past 6 years and have never had any problems of throttling or packet shaping. I still get regular updates in speeds at no charge.

Hopefully comcast gets hit hard for destroying there customers experience on the web.

Joseph Ratliff
@qwest.net

Joseph Ratliff

Anon

How dare Comcast tell us that....

Comcast is trying to push against the FCC? Even if it was "Joe Blow", the public doesn't want it's internet blocked in any form...that's why it's called a free country.

How dare Comcast tell its customers that it will control what we want to see. I think we can make that decision ourselves.

Comcast...go find a different avenue to make money.
lgkahn7
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
Londonderry, NH

lgkahn7

Premium Member

Re: How dare Comcast tell us that....

well comcast is definately throttling my incoming p2p.. i have both comcast 8/2 service and with speedtest.net i can get 16-20meg down and 4 meg up.. but download p2p fastest i ever get is 125 megbit per sec. which works out to 1 mega byte per sec. that must be where they are throttling it..

with my 3/768 verizon dsl i can get 200-300 megabit /sec with the exact same torrent 15 minutes after change the ip on my laptop from comcast to verizon.. comcast definately sucks and if htey dont change will punt them after my 6 month intro period is up