  ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | Comcrap Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that.
I'm just glad this "Limiting bitorrent" hasn't hit me yet in NW Indiana. Comcast is probably testing this and then implenting it into their network nation-wide if it works..
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh | |
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 |  swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
1 edit | Re: Comcrap I agree they would win in court, but I think it is "defauding the customers" in some sense. If Comcast deliberately forges a packet, and the customer relies on that packet to be genuine, and suffers disadvantage because it's not, there are the legal elements are deception, intent to deceive, reliance, and harm. It's on such a micro-scale that it would never be placed under the same legal rule as selling bogus merchandise, but in principle it is odious.
To the editorialist above: Is it OK for an individual to go into a situation for some other purpose - say, into a business to install a router - and start falsifying traffic? Maybe it benefits some third party; does that make it OK? If not, then why is it OK for a corporation to do the same?
The larger issue is that if it comes to be considered acceptable for ISPs to falsify customers' internet traffic on a small scale, it opens the door to legalized DNS poisoning, stealth censorship of news reports, and other abuses.
Edited to clarify. | |
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| | | | Re: Comcrap Unfortunately, in this country of ours ("The best in the world!") it is never justice or reason that wins in our courts -- it's who can spend the most money and drag it out the longest. How much longer do we have to let the rich get away with whatever they want before U.S. citizens will start the next revolution? | |
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| | | Kzbd
join:2006-10-01
Roselle, IL | Re: Comcrap YEAH REVOLUTION! Wait, you want to storm Comcast? | |
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| | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | I think there is an angle worth investigating.
Remember the FCC decision to label cable modem service as an information service instead of a telecom service in effect removing regulatory requirements.
I could be wrong but a big difference between the two is that bits change in a telecom service and they do not change in an information service. I could have this completely reversed but if not then comcast is operating a telecom service and should have to experience the full impact of each appropriate regulator entity. | |
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| | | Except...the author is saying that States could go after Comcast...aka New Yorks AG.
They send a packet that tells you its from the remote host you are trying to connect with that says "no thanks...please terminate" if thats not fraud...what is? They can drop the packet...thats fine...but I think fraud is over the line IMHO | |
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|  15063053This space for rent.
join:2007-07-22
1 edit | said by ztmike:I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service.
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Change is coming in 2008.
»www.ronpaul2008.com/
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| | | | Re: Comcrap said by 15063053:said by ztmike:I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service. Yea because Verizon is 100% legit and for the customer. In case you didn't know, FioS is not available to everyone.
"Comcrap" - What an original play on words. Wish I thought of that.  | |
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| | | | | Re: Comcrap some of us don't have much of a choice when it comes to broadband...Cumcrap knows this and they arrogantly fee us to death for Sh*tty service while telling us just how Comcraptic it is....
once I get a decent choice, I'm gone!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
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| | | | | said by LeftOfSanity:said by 15063053:said by ztmike:I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service. Yea because Verizon is 100% legit and for the customer. In case you didn't know, FioS is not available to everyone. "Comcrap" - What an original play on words. Wish I thought of that. You must work for the company or have other interest. There is no perfect company, to me it is just trading one evil corporation for another. In the end every company is out to make money and there is no way to make EVERYONE happy all of the time.
I am happy with my connection and I do not have diluted perceptions about what I am paying for. The price is exactly the same as it is nationally. I also beleive that the price I pay is fully justified, considering it is the same price I paid 4 years ago, and I was getting less than half of the speed at 3 mb. I am now signed up for 8 mb and getting the following from my speed tests.
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| | | | | | Re: Comcrap Charter is no better. I work for Charter. They are unorganized, cheating liars. And the subcontracting company I work for is no better. I'm sure Comcast is the same. These companies don't give two shits about their customers. | |
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| | | said by ztmike:Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that. I'm just glad this "Limiting bitorrent" hasn't hit me yet in NW Indiana. Comcast is probably testing this and then implenting it into their network nation-wide if it works.. I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh They can't supply the current speeds as it is. Why do you think they are throttling?
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"I thrive on precisely those same things that kill others. The problem is not that we set our goals too high and then fail to reach them. The problem is that we set our goals too low, and then do reach them."-Michelangelo | |
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| | | You guys quote a NY law, but NY law also has something called Clean Hands law.
Which basically means you can't sue someone if you your self are doing something that can be considered illegal.
So you can't sue Comcast for preventing you from downloading some Movie you don't own. No lawyer in their right mind would take your case. | |
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| | swhx7Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
1 edit | Re: Comcrap said by HardwareGeek:Which basically means you can't sue someone if you your self are doing something that can be considered illegal.
So Comcast couldn't sue customers for sending forged packets, then? I suppose it's prohibited by their terms of service, which would be rather hypocritical.
Also, Comcast doesn't discriminate, they sabotage all BT. A plaintiff would be someone seeding a Linux ISO or some such. | |
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| | | | There are lots of legitimate uses for bittorrent, in fact it has been incorporated into several patching systems like for Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Can anyone out there in the area affected still patch thier WoW client? | |
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|  Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
1 edit | Cablevision just uncapped their BOOST customers' modems... certainly Comcast, which has speeds that don't even approach Optimum Onlines could handle bit torrent traffic... either that, or they need to invest money in splitting nodes so more bandwidth is available per homes pass to the customer.
Granted, it's the middle of the night, but I was getting what I would consider pretty good speeds earlier this afternoon as well... Comcast should step back and fix their network instead of just putting limits on what customers can and can not do. | |
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|  NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9 | said by ztmike:Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that. New York Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo isn't a "regular old Joe". I doubt that Comcat's pockets are as deep as the pockets of the State of New York.
The question is, what would it take to get AG Cuomo interested?
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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 en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Just be honest with the public/your customers. While Comcast may be denying traffic shaping, and is 'protecting' its network from BitTorrent (or just protecting in general, in a manner in which BitTorrent traffic is being affected). Just come clean. Is BitTorrent traffic being 'altered' in any way/shape/form vs. other traffic ?
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | Re: Just be honest with the public/your customers. "...the chance of Comcast facing any legal trouble for their traffic shaping is marginal at best, given Comcast's goal is to protect the integrity of their network, not defraud customers." At least we're being honest about Comcast's overall motives here. We can probably compare this to attempts by a telephone company to prevent customers from connecting to a known fraudulent or criminal telephone number. There are a lot of possible analogies out there, but I'm also not so sure that Comcast won't have to defend this in court at some point.. | |
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| | word Get a new ISP, if you dont have any other options. BUMMER! | |
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| | . The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation. | |
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|  OmegaDisplaced OhioanPremium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY | Re: . said by ninjatutle:The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation. bittorrent can be used for legal purposes.
Cars can be used to break the law.
Xerox machines can be used to break the law
You name something legal, it can be used to break the law. Bittorrent shouldn't be singled out because of this. | |
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| | | | Re: . Illegally downloading movies and tv shows just doesnt happen I guess. | |
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| | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: . said by ninjatutle:Illegally downloading movies and tv shows just doesnt happen I guess. Recording TV and then fast fowarding thru commercials doesn't happen I guess.
If it does.... Those evil PIRATE TERRORISTS stealing the show! Send the Goose steppers to smash thru the front door and haul 'em away to Gitmo!
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | | | | Re: . FF through commericals aint illegal. I have a 30 sec skip button from my cable tv provider which is also my ISP. | |
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| | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: . Recording a movie, TV show or PPV item onto your VCR or DVD-RW is also considered illegal. I.e. MLB, NFL, etc. all have the disclaimer that recording the show without express written consent is illegal. Does this mean all VCR owners are breaking the law ?
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: . You're finally getting it | |
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| | | | | | Dan8888
join:2007-08-21
Wilmington, DE | en102
Actually it is not, regardless of the disclaimer on some shows, the surpreme court has ruled in the past it was 100 percent legal to record a show for private use. | |
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| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by ninjatutle:FF through commericals aint illegal. .... Yet. | |
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| |  GlaiceStill around herePremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | said by Omega:said by ninjatutle:The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation. bittorrent can be used for legal purposes. Cars can be used to break the law. Xerox machines can be used to break the law You name something legal, it can be used to break the law. Bittorrent shouldn't be singled out because of this. You forgot Linux distros. | |
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| | | | I agree - and many P2P services (Napster / Shareaza / Gnutella / WinMX ... ad infinitumthat have already been shut down shouldn't have been attacked either - it's just that our politicians will find a way around the constitution or any law if somebody offers them enough grease...
And anyway - you don't need a P2P to get illegal files. P2P doesn't even scratch the surface of how "illegal" software is distributed.
I think it's time for a cassette tape or VHS protest... since it isn't illegal to record with tapes and VHS, wouldn't it be interesting if a point was made by using those formats to share a recent movie or album? And when the screaming starts, then the point of it's legality can be raised and the question can be staged... If it was okay (legal) in one format - why isn't it okay in another??? | |
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| | | said by ninjatutle:The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation. Your computer can be used to break the law, so do the right thing, and stop using it. | |
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| | | | Re: . said by stomp357:said by ninjatutle:The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation. Your computer can be used to break the law, so do the right thing, and stop using it. I second that notion! LOL
Let the man dictate to you for what you can do!  | |
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| | | Can you provide evidence to your statement or are you just stating an opinion?
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True Happiness Must Come From Within | |
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| | | | Re: . A picture says a....... | |
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 exocet_cmI am the law - Judge DreddPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | That is correct comrad This can all foiled by a VPN connection mind you  | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| | linch mob reporters? whats up with all the comcast bashing latley? seems like every day i see some news about them thats berateing. there not that bad people. i think we have a linch mob of news reporters. you want to talk about crap, then lets talk about adelphia (the worlds most worst ISP provider). thank god there no longer in buisness. | |
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See 18 replies to this post |
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| | Comcast nearly dead today in Pacific NW It appears that Comcast is having issues with their service in the Pacific NW. Many users have been left in the dark unable to access email and other services. | |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6 |  Could it happen? Sure it could!
That the New York law was cited is very interesting, as New York is very prone to take on cases of consumer abuse by corporations.
This is a great piece of clear thinking:
said by swhx7:However, the blurb-writer's claim that the practice is not "defauding the customers" is questionable. The legal elements are deception, intent to deceive, reliance, and harm. If Comcast deliberately forges a packet, and the customer relies on that packet to be genuine, and suffers disadvantage because it's not, that's fraud.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report. | |
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 Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Verona, PA | Go ahead people. Keep pushing the issue with silly lawyer games, just don't bitch when you get your way and they start totally blocking BT.
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Mooooooo!!! | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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thumbs down from:
Cabal 
| Laws Comcast's goal is to defraud customers.
Sorry eggheads, but the law is the law no matter how many suits are on the other side.
Unless you are saying money subverts justice.
Never head of OJ that... | |
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| | | Re: Laws said by comcaster :
Comcast's goal is to defraud customers.
Sorry eggheads, but the law is the law no matter how many suits are on the other side.
Unless you are saying money subverts justice.
Never head of OJ that...
Riiight. Im sure the powers of Comcast sat in a secluded room and concocted a plan to defraud its customers.
And i bet you would be the type to try and collect money from Comcast because they defrauded your packets.
Typical thinking...how can i make'um me some easy money fer nuttin. | |
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| | No Alternative In regards to Comcast bashing mentioned previously. Here's why I severely dislike Comcast. First, I have no options. I'm too far from a CO to get DSL and the only wireless ISP in our area cut speeds and increased prices making it worthless. Comcast is at best a mediocre internet connection yet they charge a premium price. I don't mind the 8,000 download speeds but I'm limited to 768 upload speeds (I want more!). Their customer service centers give conflicting answers, advice and you never know which center you'll get: Texas, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Sacramento, etc. Their contract techs are usually not knowledgeable at all and sometimes makes an easy job more difficult.
I know it's easy bashing the big guy but Comcast is a monopoly where I live. It should be regulated by the government instead of being able to charge/do whatever it wants to it's customers since we have little or no choices for alternative services. | |
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| |  Thumbs Down
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1 edit | The Law is the Law If you guys would take the time to read this:
»it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=···20472375
You would see how Comcast is in clear violation of internet standards as well as FEDERAL law, not to mention STATE laws as well. It wont be long before organizations like the EFF get involved in this...then lets see if Comcast has the stomach for that kind of battle...and the publicity that will come of it...the last thing they want is Congress up their butt | |
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| | I want only one thing for cable COMPETITION. If I had 3 good cable providers able to offer me service, there would not be a service problem. They would be calling me asking if I wanted more bandwidth and rebate. One day they will reap what they sew. | |
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| | OK a question.... I have a question for those who say they are fine with this and this is Comcast's right, how far are you willing to let your ISP go with regulations in the name of 'saving bandwidth'. Would you accept your ISP if it started blocking Youtube because its a bandwidth hog? How about if they blocked all video sharing sites since they can all be called hogs, also they may contain illegal content. Would you still stand by your ISP's choice? My point being if you let them get by with such tactics as these whats to stop them from taking it further, much like a communistic government. What if all ISP's saw that Comcast got away with this and then mirrored throughout? Just some food for thought... | |
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| | Preserve the integrity of their network??? More like preserve the integrity of their business plan.
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p.s. I am not a nut. | |
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| | | Re: Preserve the integrity of their network??? Bingo! You hit the nail on the head! | |
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| | | And why wouldn't they protect their business plan? They are a FOR PROFIT business and they do kind of have a right to make a profit do they not?
This is from the Insight TOS though I am POSITIVE that Comcast has something very similar:
i. undertake or accomplish any unlawful purpose; this includes, but is not limited to, posting, storing, transmitting or disseminating information, data or material which is libelous, obscene, unlawful, threatening, defamatory, or which infringes the intellectual property rights of any person or entity,
Now why on earth would Comcast not take steps to protect their bottom line when a SIGNIFICANT chunk of their bandwidth is in direct violation of TOS?
Piss and moan about legal uses all you want, nearly all of this traffic is illegal and if it makes my legal use of the Internet faster then I am all for it. | |
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| | | | Re: Preserve the integrity of their network??? Why they wouldn't:
Filtering based on use is an invasion of privacy.
They advertised a upload and download rate. If they can't sustain this, they don't have a right to pick and choose who to deny it to. They don't get to throttle to prevent the service you paid for which was not just what YOU want to use it for.
You write about your use being faster, guess what? That's a naive view, ALL the users are supposed to have the full bandwidth they paid for, and if you don't yet, you have the same complaint but you're being selfish about trying to take from other to get what you shouldn't have been denied in the first place. Stop trying to cheat others and then you will be on a unified front to look at the real problem. | |
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Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Down with Sandvine I love the last line of the link:
quote:
"Comcast should immediately cease and desist these egregious violations and cease perpetrating targeted Denial of Service attacks on its customers."
Outstanding! | |
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 halfbandPremium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
4 edits | Be carefull what you wish for - So comcast stops throttling BT.
- BT usage starts to clog up the upload link on comcasts network.
- Users complain that the entire comcast network is too slow and demand that they "fix" it.
- Comcast increases the bandwidth of the network so BT and all the applications that BT was slowing down will work and passes along the $10 per month upgrade to us.
- Users complain about the price increase because it is supporting a small number of users and the "I don't use BT so I shouldn't have to pay for it" crowd demands that comcast enforce the TOS and stop all BT so the price can go back down.
....
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
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| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: Be carefull what you wish for And those customers switch to slower DSL which is cheaper, right? No legal reason for Comcast couldn't write a data transfer cap into all contracts going forward. But people WANT unlimited service, I don't most people are going to switch to a service that isn't net-neutral. | |
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| | | said by halfband:- So comcast stops throttling BT. - BT usage starts to clog up the upload link on comcasts network. - Users complain that the entire comcast network is too slow and demand that they "fix" it. - Comcast increases the bandwidth of the network so BT and all the applications that BT was slowing down will work and passes along the $10 per month upgrade to us. - Users complain about the price increase because it is supporting a small number of users and the "I don't use BT so I shouldn't have to pay for it" crowd demands that comcast enforce the TOS and stop all BT so the price can go back down. .... Then they should deal with the bandwidth hogs directly. I use less than 25g a month. I would consider myself a light user; so why should my usage of bit torrent be limited? The problem is Comcast is throwing out the baby with the bath water. What will they do tomorrow when they decide Yotube or some other application is responsible for a sizable portion of their bandwidth usage. Are they going to interfere with those applications too. Comcast customers are finding new ways to use their bandwidth, but Comcast is not growing with the growing needs of their customers. | |
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| | | Oh please - if Comcrap was that close to having a problem maintaining banwidth on their network - that if all it's users consistantly used the top speed of WHAT THEY ARE PAYING COMCRAP FOR in a sustained manner, Comcast wouldn't be able to handle the traffic - resulting in some kind of digital log-jam, then why in the hell are they selling people higher tiers and powerboost - which can almost quadruple your speeds??? They are either stupid or dishonest! If they are telling customers that they are paying for 8mbps service, then that's what they should get - and they cannot use "illegal usage" as a reason to throttle unless they can positively tell that there is such illegal use. They cannot tell simply by the amount of up/downloading - or because it's a P2P network - the only way to be 100% sure is to intercept and analyze the download. Since that is invasion of privacy WHICH IS ILLEGAL, then it stands to reason that Comcast has no legal recourse for restricting a users activities in regards to what they are up/downloading. Therefore a TOS statement is unenforceable.
If Comcrap followed you example, and opened up it's bandwidth, you know what that would be? COMCAST DOING WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING! And as far as the sudden increase of traffic "slowing down the net" - that's a load of crap. America's internet is so throttled , controlled and artificially slowed-down (we can't "afford" or will not pay what they want to offer us unfettered speeds... it's all part of the "plan" to keep it at a certain pace because we will pay more later...) that "opening up the bandwidth" might not get good headlines for all the fake complaints from Comcrap and other rip-off artists - but technically will actually help the internet to run better.
Japan has speeds of over 30mbps - I frequent some of their forums as well... I rarely hear them complaining about "bandwidth" issues - which from the very start wasn't really a physical value anyway - it's an arbitrary unit used to give companies like Comcrap a tangible reason to charge you! That's why the only time you hear about them spending a lot of money is when they are expanding lines or upgradeing equipment.
Bandwidth is the biggest con ever created - once you are connected it really costs next to nothing as the signal is just an electronic stream... and with broadband your "electronic stream" is always connected... But people have allowed themselves to be conned into NOT thinking about it. It cost more to throttle than it does to let it flow - but then, if you want to have a reason to continually raise prices - of course your going to portion it out,, raising the price each time you open the hose a bit.
All of your points sound like the brainwashed babble that Comcrap infuses and even spouts itself in defense of it's practices. Even if it were true - there are simply not enough people on BT or all of the P2P networks to "clog up the network" anyway, regardless if they were downloading at full powerboost speeds. And Comcrap is going to raise your fees regardless - might as well get something out of it - like the ability to actually USE the speed you paid them for... consistantly... at a sustained rate... | |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Idiotic... By the logic of this article, a webmaster could be prosecuted for using an http redirect or massaging DNS records to manage traffic.
I didn't see anything in the quoted statute that allows for causes of action by routers or network cards or TCPIP stacks. Clearly the law is outdated, which means the case gets tossed. | |
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| |  Yes - Comcast - BitComet - Connecticut - Connection
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