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story category Comcast Demonstrates DOCSIS 3.0
Though offers few additional specific details...
(old news - 04:21PM Tuesday Jan 08 2008)
tags: business · bandwidth · cable · Comcast
Earlier this year, Comcast CEO Brian Roberts worked the media into a lather by stating that 150Mbps connectivity would be a reality for the company "within less than a couple years." Those speeds are courtesy of DOCSIS 3.0, a technology that will allow tuning into multiple 6 MHz channels through channel bonding technology, offering shared downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher (per channel).

Click for full size
Comcast says that they're currently engaged in testing, but hasn't offered any additional details other than what's already publicly available -- namely that they have some select early market launches planned for 2008. The company also hasn't specified whether they'll be using any pre-certification DOCSIS 3.0 technology between now and then, which could bring faster speeds before the standard is officially certified.

Roberts took the stage at CES today to again demonstrate DOCSIS 3.0, though his presentation offered about the same detail as his presentation at the NCTA Cable Show in Las Vegas back in May. Comcast's focus today was squarely on promoting the company's various video related projects, though he did illustrate to attendees how with DOCSIS 3.0, they could download a full HD copy of Batman Begins in four minutes.

"The great news is that we’ll have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out in front of millions of homes in Comcast service areas by the end of this year," Roberts told CES attendees. . . . . .

Click for full size
The not so great news? Comcast CTO Tony Werner recently stated that 80% of Comcast customers shouldn't expect the upgrades in 2008. When we recently spoke with Comcast, they insisted that the vast majority of their customers were happy with the speeds they are currently getting -- particularly since the company launched Powerboost.

When Comcast does finally get to a substantive deployment of DOCSIS 3.0, initial speeds won't be anything near 160Mbps; they'll likely try to mirror Verizon's FiOS speed packages, which currently top out at 50Mbps, though 100Mbps FiOS is in testing. Comcast will initially struggle to match FiOS when it comes to upstream bandwidth (Verizon just started offering 15 & 20Mbps symmetrical service).

While the DOCSIS 3.0 standard remains stuck in committee, cable operators are deploying pre-certification channel bonding technology that will be firmware upgradeable once the standard is finalized. However, only downstream channel bonding works in these early pre-certification deployments. That means that the few cable operators that are deploying this technology early are having to offer strangely top heavy (to the tune of 100Mbps/2Mbps) connections.

Expect the real DOCSIS 3.0 noise to be made by Comcast in 2009.

Related:
  1. Comcast Promises 100Mbps By 2010
  2. Comcast Makes Upstream Speed Boost Official
  3. Comcast To Deploy Femtocells
  4. Comcast, Cox, Trot Out Their Worst 'Bandwidth Hogs'
  5. Beating Comcast's Sandvine On Linux With Iptables
  6. Comcast Expands Switched Digital Video Trials
  7. Comcast Says They'll Play Nice With Vonage
  8. Comcast Expands New Throttling Tests
Forums » Comcast Demonstrates DOCSIS 3.0
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ

Big deal

though he did illustrate to attendees how with DOCSIS 3.0, they could download a full HD copy of Batman Begins in four minutes.
After less than an hour you'll hit your monthly limit.

Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud

edit:
January 8th, @05:17PM

Re: Big deal

They'll have the capacity to significantly raise or abolish the limit...should they choose to. And these movie transfers demonstrate their HD VOD capabilities which wouldn't apply to HSI restrictions.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Big deal

DOCSIS 3.0 does not involve VOD.

Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud

edit:
January 8th, @08:29PM

Re: Big deal

IPTV VOD and other IPTV services they don't directly host but may partner with.

It was my understanding that this future 6000 movie VOD library wouldn't all be stored locally and what isn't stored locally would be delivered via IPTV.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Big deal

VOD(from the cable companies) IPTV is on a separate system from the HSI.
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET

said by Skeedatl See Profile :

They'll have the capacity to significantly raise or abolish the limit...should they choose to. And these movie transfers demonstrate their HD VOD capabilities which wouldn't apply to HSI restrictions.
Right. They could also limit/charge for/tarriff/designate local connections differently from Internet connections. They could designate various IP#s as "within Comcast" and weight them as near, medium, far, etc., and then those "outside Comcast" and rate them accordingly. If capping, they could cap with those in mind.

Someone responded to you by saying "DOCSIS 3.0 does not involve VOD." I don't quite see how that could possibly be true: VOD will most certainly be possible over DOCSIS 3.0, and could make it a lot better (much better than the current 6x fast forward and rewind crap), especially with HD. I would not be at all surprised if content was delivered via DOCSIS 3.0.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Big deal

I will try to explain this. The current Cable TV, Cable phone, and cable HSI all come on the same wire, BUT they are on independent systems. Your HSI running at full capacity does not interact with you Cable phone or Cable TV. The VOD runs inside the Cable TV system and has zero(0) interaction with HSI or Cable Phone.

Yes, you COULD setup a VOD system to run over HSI but that is not the way it is currently set up. Third party ip telephone does run over HSI, which is why you cannot download at full capacity and use the (third party ip) phone at the same time (shared bandwidth).

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

The current VOD system creates a completely standard 256QAM channel on the fly (so standard, you can "freeload" them with a QAM tuner!). So, DOCSIS 3 would be of little or no benefit to that system, since bonding isn't necessary in that situation. The system can simply move onto another QAM channel when one is full.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Makes little sense

DOCSIS 1.X will do 40 down / 10 up. If they(cable in general) would just go that far it would be a huge jump for most of us without having to replace everything. DOCSIS 3.0 is great but, even if it can do 160 down/ 120 up, will we have access to this? If they intend to do so, why can't we get 40/10 now?

decadent
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Piscataway, NJ

Re: Makes little sense

said by Lazlow See Profile :

If they intend to do so, why can't we get 40/10 now?
It is shared bandwidth. 40Mb is shared by 250 (OOL)-2000 households. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Fibre_Coaxial. They don't want one user to hog all bandwidth on the node. Although OOL Boost with 30Mps almost allows it.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Makes little sense

And how will that change with 3.0?

decadent
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Piscataway, NJ

Re: Makes little sense

480 Mbps will be shared between 250-2000 houses. It is much better. BTW, I think, that is why they still offer only 160Mps, not full 480Mpbs, so one user cannot overload the node.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Makes little sense

10 out of 40 is 1/4 of the bandwidth by one person.

160 out of 480 is 1/3 of the bandwidth by one person.

It is the same problem just a bigger pipe. Percentage wise things are worse not better. 1/3>1/4
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

Re: Makes little sense

No because people will download the same amount of data, just faster.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Makes little sense

Maybe, but I would bet that is a bad assumption. With the coming shift to HD DVD or Blueray (regardless of which wins out) people will be downloading 25-50gig images instead of 4.4-9gig images. With the switch to DTV in Feb 09 will will be seeing a lot more TV series being sent in HD rather than smaller standard NTSC (yes I know cable does not have to change but I bet it will). Lower resolution stuff in general has been dropping (VCDs are relatively rare already). Even web pages themselves are becoming (or have become) much higher resolution (larger). P2P just keep on growing. Every time more bandwidth becomes available people have found a way to fill it. I do not think that is a trend that is going to change anytime soon. As far as pure data is concerned look at the explosive increases in data set sizes every time a new media became popular: Cds, DVDs, and now whichever format wins out.
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX

edit:
January 8th, @07:43PM

Re: Makes little sense

SDV to the rescue.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cabl···gram.png
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Makes little sense

That is for video signal not video files.
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET

Re: Makes little sense

said by Lazlow See Profile :

That is for video signal not video files.
Once again ... you're being too ________. SDV obviously does help with video files that are sent in such video signals. It fixes it. It deals with the entire video file problem. Jesus. So does DOCSIS 3.0.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Makes little sense

We are talking about sending video files on HSI, (avi, mpeg, rar etc). Not video like VOD.
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
Yeah, but piracy is still a small percentage of HSI users, and web pages probably won't grow as fast as the shift from DVD to HD which is a 10 times increase. I mean how much more flash content can they put on some of these overbloated pages?
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO


edit:
January 9th, @01:57AM

Re: Makes little sense

I think you are VASTLY underestimating Usenet and P2P. Usenet has to have in excess of 500gig posted a day, with most of the major newshosts holding for 200days. I just looked at one of the Usenet index sites and there are 50 pages (75 filesets/page) of filesets (DVDS) larger than 2500mb and that index does not include all the groups in Usenet. How many times that 500gigs gets downloaded no one is really saying, but I would bet that it is well over 1000 times. That is of course spread over the entire internet (up and down). The P2P situation must be even more significant or the isps would not be attempting to block it.

I would like to point out that not all these materials are pirated. Many new artists release there work on both these venues in an attempt to get known. Many smaller projects (think Linux) also use these methods to spread their work.

Take a look at sites like youtube, google video, and the horde of others like them. Take a look at virtually any TV station's web site and you will see tons of videos from the local news. All these will be shifting to higher quality video (larger files).
etaadmin

join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
With DOCSIS3.0 users will share +480Mbps instead of 42Mbps. ALL 2.0 cable modems sync at 48Mbps down (5360 Ksym/sec) 20Mbps up (2560 Ksym/sec) Time slots (provisioning) is what defines your speed.

decadent
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Piscataway, NJ

Re: Makes little sense

Yes, I meant the same. And I think, actually QoS settings in modem decides speed in 2.0. But in DOCSIS3.0 it is not necessary to bound all channels together. As far as I understand you can have 2 pairs of 4 channels bounded, so two modems can transmit at the same moment of time. But I have not seen a very detailed article on DOCSIS3.0, but that one is a bit better than rest of them:
»www.convergedigest.com/bp/bp1.asp?ID=499

jimbo48

join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink

DOCSIS3.0

Have to laugh at the statement that Comcast customers will have these seemingly out of this world speeds (up and down). I guess I'm one of those who will have to wait till the 2nd coming to get download of greater than 1500/256. Comcast doesn't offer digital/HD TV phone or high speed Internet technology to my area(San Francisco Bay area) yet they've milked the ratepayers for years with the claim that the rate hikes were for upgrading their offering. I currently have Earthlink/COVAD at 3000/384 along with LPVoice telephone and a VOIP line which runs about as well as a blind- threee-legged dog BUT its better than Comcast AT&T or the others have offered.
some day we will join the ranks of the 21st century technology but till then.............

comcast_customer

@accelnet.net

from:
Cabal See Profile

Re: DOCSIS3.0

perhaps you should move out of the sticks then...

jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
clubs:

Re: DOCSIS3.0

said by comcast_customer :

perhaps you should move out of the sticks then...
Uhhh....I wouldn't call Hayward 'in the sticks'.
--
If they told you wolverines would make good house pets, would you believe them?
-"Planes, Trains & Automobiles"
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

edit:
January 8th, @05:50PM

Yeah, Hayward, CA population 140K. Yep, that is way out in the sticks.

Edit: Jslik beat me to it.

jimbo48

join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink

I don't consider my location " in the sticks" nor do at least 140K others. 30 miles from the heart of Silicon Valley and 35 miles from one of the most visited cities in the world No Hayward isn't the sticks just certain portions are treated that way.
Maybe you can elaborate on your locale and illuminate the board on its qualitiies and we can judge whether or not "You" are in the sticks.

Broadband Fan



said by jimbo48 See Profile :

Comcast doesn't offer digital/HD TV phone or high speed Internet technology to my area(San Francisco Bay area) yet they've milked the ratepayers for years with the claim that the rate hikes were for upgrading their offering.
Really? Hmm, I'm in the S.F. Bay Area and have HD TV, Phone and High Speed Internet choices from Comcast.

I didn't realize the folks in Hayward had been left out of these Comcast services.
mrweirdo

join:2004-09-12
Roseville, CA

Re: DOCSIS3.0

said by Broadband Fan :

said by jimbo48 See Profile :

Comcast doesn't offer digital/HD TV phone or high speed Internet technology to my area(San Francisco Bay area) yet they've milked the ratepayers for years with the claim that the rate hikes were for upgrading their offering.
Really? Hmm, I'm in the S.F. Bay Area and have HD TV, Phone and High Speed Internet choices from Comcast.

I didn't realize the folks in Hayward had been left out of these Comcast services.
Sounds to me like comcast was lazy and didnt bother to upgrade that area. I feel bad for whoever lives there and has comcast as they arent getting what they are paying for. Of course things aren't a whole lot better in the Sacramento Market as we are way behind in HD channels.
--
»www.crucialcolin.com/ | »www.pcgeektech.com
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET

said by jimbo48 See Profile :

Comcast doesn't offer digital/HD TV phone or high speed Internet technology to my area(San Francisco Bay area)
I'm in San Francisco Bay Area (San Jose). Comcast has digital HD, TV, phone, and high speed internet:

digital HD: QAM over CATV, received by Motorola boxes. The one 1.5' away from my fingers has an HDMI output.

TV: Television. My plan gets only a fraction of the channels, and has over 100, and also include video on demand, and the box I just spoke about above has DVR.

phone: Mine is being ported from AT&T, and gets installed Thursday (schedule to anyway). People have had CDV and CDP for years.

high speed Internet: I just downgraded from 8mbps/s (boosting to 20mbps) to 6mbps/s (and it still boosts quite high -- probably 20mbps?), because of price, and its upload goes up to about 1.5mbps (I re-measured today), but does reduce with heavy use.

btw, the only other option is AT&T with DSL, which goes up to 768kbps 'down'/384kbps 'up' on my line being disconnected on the 10th; they have no TV, but I can OTA quite a bit with a decent antenna rig/set/tree/farm. Phone -- can be provided by AT&T or any other IP carrier (I haven't tried, but I would like to try an alternative to Comcast at some point, probably at the end of the 12 month triple play pricing). My roommate has some sort of satellite system.

they've milked the ratepayers for years
They certainly charge a lot!

jimbo48

join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink

Re: DOCSIS3.0

I would pay their higher prices to get the services I need but it won't happen till they run new lines upgrade their repeaters etc. We can get Cable TV (Analog) but not Digital on the current runs, no Phone bundling services which isn't suprising because AT&T doesn't offer digital phone offerings either. Equally old POTS lines) and their DSL is 768/256 for me. Hopefully COMCAST and AT&T will spend some money to repair/replace lines.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
Maybe the oppressive, overbearing, controlling, and unreasonable FA should step out of the way and allow for the needed upgrades and stop playing games in order to see what they can milk out of the operator for their own needs.

Slayer

@comcast.net
Don't know which part of Hayward you're living in but I live there and have Comcast Cable HD,and 8mbps Pro service for 4 years now. Never,ever had a problem with it.

geezer

@covad.net

Re: DOCSIS3.0

Comcast has yet to run new lines in our neck of the woods in South Hayward-same cable lines that's been here since 1983. Kept charging more rate hikes to pay for the upgrading but I never saw any improvement so finally cancelled. could relate horror stories with Comcast.
The various telcoms have built up the infrastructure all around (new homes in the hills above me) down the street 1/4 of a mile but our pocket is woefully undeserved by technology. I called Comcast and they said I might be able to get the premium Internet speeds sorry still no Bundling of voice services though.
My CO (DSL) is in Union City so my distance really puts the hurts to ADSL. Still, I'll continue to look for better solutions.From Jimbo48

JasonD

@comcast.net


from:
Cabal See Profile

In FIOS areas.......

by all means upgrade to DOCSIS 3 and make those areas a proving ground for high speed offerings. But elsewhere save your money and take your time. AT&T has given Comcast a free pass where they compete, and they had better take advantage of this. No need for DOCSIS 3 in any of those areas.
eco
Premium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE

Re: In FIOS areas.......

I disagree, because AT&T is acting the way they are, that is precisely the reason Comcast should upgrade some of those areas first.

JasonD

@comcast.net

Re: In FIOS areas.......

This would only make sense if Comcast had a fiduciary responsibility to bury their competition. They don't. They're in business to make money for their stockholders and blowing cash with no competitive reason would be malpractice.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: In FIOS areas.......

Take a look at that from another view. People hate to change providers, unless there is a clear reason to do so. IF Comcast would come in with a vastly superior product at a good price they could "lock down" that market for years to come, insuring a steady revenue stream. In the long run that may be the more profitable way to go.
eco
Premium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE

The nice thing..

The nice thing about living in Comcast's home market is that it means we'll likely be part of that 20% that gets the upgrade this year. I have FiOS right now but I'd love to see the competition in the internet realm really heat up.
juking

join:2006-03-11
New York, NY

Re: The nice thing..

said by eco See Profile :

The nice thing about living in Comcast's home market is that it means we'll likely be part of that 20% that gets the upgrade this year. I have FiOS right now but I'd love to see the competition in the internet realm really heat up.
What about Florida?

fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
·EarthLink


edit:
January 9th, @09:06AM

Comcast = innovative!

How? They will soon have the technology in place for speeds of 160Mb / 120Mb per channel but will offer their premier tier at 15Mb/768k for $69.00 a month. The premier tier also includes a 60GB invisible cap, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd over-cap letters being sent on premium paper AND unlimited downloading that does not exceed 1/20 of a tenth of 5% multiplied by 3 divided by a maximum of 25 users per node wired to serve no more than 18 users.

You may say "bullsh*t" but I say "innovative". Bravo, you f**king schmucks Comcast, bravo!
--
The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary.
ltjordan

join:2001-12-02
Hyattsville, MD

Batman Begins HD downloaded in four minutes.

The studio heads must be so excited.
short

join:2006-07-21

all these rules and regulations are garbage

i blame both cable and fcc for this boondoggle. just let everybody in the country have at least a 5/2 intenet connection. shit make dial up free if not ban it all together. aint it time for the most advanced nation on earth to use current standards and not ones from 20 yrs ago

AlexNYC

join:2001-06-02
Edwards, CO

Re: all these rules and regulations are garbage

said by short See Profile :

aint it time for the most advanced nation on earth to use current standards and not ones from 20 yrs ago
Which nation is that??? Japan? Germany?

Anonymister

@verizon.net

DOCSIS 3.0? What a joke

What good will it do having even faster speeds? Just because Comcast will be deploying DOCSIS 3.0, it does not mean that their unknown bandwidth cap limitations won't still exist. People will still be called up, getting threatened, not knowing what to do, and will be cut off with no real alternatives.
Brian Roberts I give him credit is very ambitious, but what I see is a guy that is pandering to his stockholders and telling them what they want to hear.
CatchingSpy

join:2002-09-08
Atlanta, GA

Re: DOCSIS 3.0? What a joke

I was never asked If I was happy with the speed package that never comes close what I am paying for.
juking

join:2006-03-11
New York, NY

20% locations?

Any idea where the 20% may be?

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:

This Company ROCKS!!

""The great news is that we’ll have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out in front of millions of homes in Comcast service areas by the end of this year," Roberts told CES attendees. . . . . ."

nuff said.

2008 is going to be a VERY exciting year for both the company and it's customers.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

ztmike
1kwikgt
Premium
join:2001-08-02
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest

Re: This Company ROCKS!!

said by Rick See Profile :

""The great news is that we’ll have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out in front of millions of homes in Comcast service areas by the end of this year," Roberts told CES attendees. . . . . ."

nuff said.

2008 is going to be a VERY exciting year for both the company and it's customers.
Get off your high horse already.

Those 20% are Fios areas. It will probably be late 2009 before "other" customers see speed increases or docsis 3.

I guess people with Blast! 16/2 ..I guess that ain't good enough for them..All while the people with 6/384, 8/768 will still be stuck on those tiers...BUT WAIT WE GOT TEH POWERBOOST!
--
"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush
jammmin

join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD

Re: This Company ROCKS!!

I live in Comcast country and I get get 15 megabit FIOS. Comcast doesn't offer Blast in my area.

Swingerhead
Premium
join:2004-04-06
Richmond, VA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Same as analog phone lines

For many neighborhoods, there arent enough phone lines for every house to use the phone at the same time, there can be 25 people setup on one system that only carries 15 actual lines. The phone company assumes that not everyone will use the phone at the same time, but when you do.... fast busy signal. If you are in one of these neighborhoods, this is why you cant get DSL, it required a dedicated line.

Same with this situation. Lots more bandwidth, used by lots of people. Hopefully the increase of speed should mean that when you do download something big, you are done alot faster and others wont be stuck waiting.
Napsterbater
Premium
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA
·Windstream
·Charter Pipeline


edit:
January 10th, @12:56AM

Re: Same as analog phone lines

said by Swingerhead See Profile :

For many neighborhoods, there arent enough phone lines for every house to use the phone at the same time, there can be 25 people setup on one system that only carries 15 actual lines. The phone company assumes that not everyone will use the phone at the same time, but when you do.... fast busy signal. If you are in one of these neighborhoods, this is why you cant get DSL, it required a dedicated line.
I'm not a fan of DSL by god i just about despise it, but you have the wrong information, DSL requires a dedicated line from the DSLAM to your house, which 99.9999% have. The shortage of lines happens after the DSLAM, the other 0.0001% would be people with "Party lines" which would be just way out in the boonies with like 5 house for 25 miles type situations.

Back on topic sorry.. I remember when i had Adelpiha digital cable the cable box was basically a cable modem. and had its own DOCSIS channel although separate from the "Internet Modem" channel it was the same DOCSIS type system just on a local level and different channel. Im not 100% sure but that what it looked like from the diagnostic screen of the box.
pug_ster

join:2007-04-25
Brooklyn, NY

They already have 100mbps connection in Japan and China...

We will have to wait for a year or 2 before we get something that they have.

Comcast505

@comcast.net

New services

Beta testing for 50m / 5m services has just begun in the midwest.
Forums » Comcast Demonstrates DOCSIS 3.0


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