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Comcast Details Their Six Strikes Plan
A Browser Pop Up That Forces You to Contact Comcast

Comcast has now put information on their implementation of six strikes online. According to the nation's largest broadband company, their version of the program will involve a persistent nagging pop up that continues to alert the user after the fourth warning. Time Warner Cable, who outlined their version of the plan to me last November , stated they're using a similar pop up warning system that blocks browsing until users acknowledge receipt of "educational" copyright materials.

As with other carriers, the Comcast site states that account disconnection is not part of enforcement:
quote:
Click for full size
Comcast will apply “mitigation measures” to subscribers who receive more than 4 Copyright Alerts. Comcast will place a persistent alert in any web browser under that account until the account holder contacts Comcast’s Customer Security Assurance professionals to discuss and help resolve the matter. We will never use account termination as a mitigation measure under the CAS. We have designed the pop-up browser alerts not to interfere with any essential services obtained over the Internet.
According to Comcast, they're using the same walled-garden warning technology they've used for years to cordon off infected PCs from the Internet until a user calls in to get help cleaning their machine. Like other ISPs I've spoken to, Comcast is promising that no user information is going to be shared during the warning process -- unless they receive a subpoena from a copyright holder. Also like other ISPs, users can contest accusations of piracy by paying a $35 fee -- and punishments and warnings appear to simply stop after the sixth notification.
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AnonMan
@comcast.net

AnonMan

Anon

Ahh good ol hijack

I just love how easy it is for a company to hijack your browsing session...

Wonder if this works using a third party DNS with DNSCrypt? :P If not guess I would never know..

bradyr
YCCD - Network Operations
Premium Member
join:2008-10-27
Sonora, CA
(Software) pfSense
Netgear CM1200
Ubiquiti UAP-AC-HD

bradyr

Premium Member

Re: Ahh good ol hijack

Well, at least Comcast gets an excuse to use their message injection system/notification system:

»tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6108

next step will be deep packet inspection and/or advertisement message injections ("Did you pay your bill yet?" "Want to have this site load faster?" "Hey, we noticed you're downloading [xyz]")

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium Member
join:2005-07-01
Palm Springs, CA

fuziwuzi to AnonMan

Premium Member

to AnonMan
Yay for VPN!
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: Ahh good ol hijack

Won't help you if you are misidentified as a DMCA violator. What if someone clones the MAC address of your cable modem or Comcast does not get their dates straight and you are assigned an IP address used by a pirate.
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt

Member

Re: Ahh good ol hijack

what makes you think they can legally inspect anything done inside a VPN?

Sovnade
@qwest.net

Sovnade

Anon

Re: Ahh good ol hijack

Not just legally...assuming your vpn is encrypted, there is no way for them to decrypt it. That's the whole point.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo to AnonMan

Member

to AnonMan
remember folks, comcast is not the one doing the monitoring here, its the CCIs hired firm. The question still remains that if their proof does not stand up in court(Mediasentry was recently told their "evidence" does not reasonably identify a person, only a subscriber household), how can anyone send DMCA or other private notices threatening action of law if there is no evidence to support it?

blocked
@edgewebhosting.net

blocked

Anon

Blockers?

NotScripts for Chrome or a popup blocker would get around this I'd assume. So there are no other repercussions for the reported abuse? Seems kind of silly.
NoHereNoMo
join:2012-12-06

1 recommendation

NoHereNoMo

Member

Re: Blockers?

It goes on your permanent record.

kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY

kontos to blocked

Member

to blocked
Not really. The ISP can move you to a network where there is a DNS/Web server that replaces entire webpages with that content. They don't need to do it with scripts or pop-ups. They can put you in a walled garden that isn't really the Internet.
Who know what they do with non HTTP traffic in that situation...
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt

Member

Re: Blockers?

the word missing there is "legally" That goes beyond even comcast and more into the realm of "1st amendment issues"

GeekJedi
RF is Good For You
Premium Member
join:2001-06-21
Mukwonago, WI

GeekJedi

Premium Member

Re: Blockers?

What "legal" and "1st amendment issues" are being touched on, exactly?
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: Blockers?

said by GeekJedi:

What "legal" and "1st amendment issues" are being touched on, exactly?

none, but he does not understand that. You pay comcast(or whoever), and are using their private network(last mile), they can pretty much do anything they want to your connection, so long as it does not actively show them what your web browsing sites are(that is still illegal, and requires a warrant). They can send you into a walled garden all the want. Remember, its not comcast or any ISP doing the monitoring, its a third party hired by the CCI(mediasentry), so the ISP is not snooping on your P2P(and its ONLY p2p traffic, like bittorrent) traffic, its mediasentry.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Locked up in a walled garden.

As I read Comcast's policy, the customers will not allowed access to the internet except for essential websites (which websites considered essential are not defined) unless the customer takes some action to exit the walled garden. If you want to contest a copyright violation letter pay up $35.00. If it was not for the punitive fee and I received such notice and I had never downloaded copyrighted music illegally, I would try to work with the ISP to determine why my account was identified as violating the DMCA. Of course if the the notice was sent because of sloppy work on the part of the ISP's employees, perhaps they would not want to identify why the account holder received notice.
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Re: Locked up in a walled garden.

if they deny you product for which you're paying you can just cancel the contract with no etf.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: Locked up in a walled garden.

And go where for internet access?
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Re: Locked up in a walled garden.

said by Mr Matt:

And go where for internet access?

Many place have multiple ISP available.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Locked up in a walled garden.

said by 40757180:

said by Mr Matt:

And go where for internet access?

Many place have multiple ISP available.

Not many and those that do have ISPs that also have 6 strike policies.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

1 recommendation

SimbaSeven to 40757180

Member

to 40757180
said by 40757180:

Many place have multiple ISP available.

Hahaha. Ya, right..

Pick one.. Optimum (well.. Charter now) or CenturyLink.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude to 40757180

Premium Member

to 40757180
said by 40757180:

said by Mr Matt:

And go where for internet access?

Many place have multiple ISP available.

For me: Cable, dial-up, and satellite. See the problem? :P

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

As I read Comcast's policy, the customers will not allowed access to the internet except for essential websites (which websites considered essential are not defined) unless the customer takes some action to exit the walled garden.

I believe they used the term essential SERVICES. Meaning your voice calls will still work, and your home security application will work. But you wouldn't be able to browse anywhere as long as the browser hijack is active.
»customer.comcast.com/hel ··· services
quote:
Comcast designed our browser alert system not to interfere with a subscriber’s essential services, such as digital telephone service (for example to call 911) whoever the telephone service provider, email, security or health service.
And when they say email will work, they mean their email system, not a web email app like gmail.

Fangz
join:2000-10-11
Magna, UT

Fangz

Member

How to prove your guilty...

It will be hard to prove your guilty when the courts have stated that you can't link and IP to an individual.

For those individuals that do not have their wireless locked down, this will be a call to get it done.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

This isn't about proving your guilt. Rather it seems about you attempting to prove your innocence, or at least jumping through hoops to get your connection back.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

said by openbox9:

This isn't about proving your guilt. Rather it seems about you attempting to prove your innocence, or at least jumping through hoops to get your connection back.

Sorry which ISPs disconnect you? Oh that's right ZERO. And sorry exactly ZERO people will also get 6 strikes by mistake
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

Walled garden. I consider that essentially a non-connection. I'm not suggesting that anyone will legitimately be identified six time incorrectly. You should be careful using absolutes in your discussion, IMO.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

said by openbox9:

Walled garden. I consider that essentially a non-connection. I'm not suggesting that anyone will legitimately be identified six time incorrectly. You should be careful using absolutes in your discussion, IMO.

You mention disconnection which will NOT happened since it is not mentioned anywhere. Any supposed disconnection would only happen after 6 strikes regardless. For an innocent person to be disconnected they would have to be wrongly accused 6 times. Not seeing where my post was incorrect. Sorry NOT going to happen.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

said by 88615298:

For an innocent person to be disconnected they would have to be wrongly accused 6 times. Not seeing where my post was incorrect. Sorry NOT going to happen.

whats your IP, I can show you how easy it can happen. I can make myself show up to Mediasentry(the CCI hired monitoring firm) as any IP address that I want, and I bet I can make you get 6 false accusations really fast. The sad part, is that its probably DNS redirecting, which anyone whos worth their salt in tech knowledge would not be using their ISPs DNS servers.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
Semantics. Fine, you won't be disconnected, just restricted from doing most useful/productive things with your connection.
TheRogueX
join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO

TheRogueX to openbox9

Member

to openbox9
Isn't that great? We live in a country where you're supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty, yet this system forces you to PROVE your innocence. And somehow the courts are ok with that.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

This isn't a criminal procedure in a court of law. Perhaps the courts can look at the legality if someone sues an ISP and/or the CCI.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

well, considering how the courts have said that the monitoring firms "evidence" does nothing more than identify a subscriber household and does not identify the actual person doing the downloading, how can the CCI even send out anything remotely related to legal proceedings(even in this case) under that evidence? If the courts will no longer accept it, how can they accuse anyone under it. I am waiting for the first person to be accused, and sue the CCI and Mediasentry(and file a temp or perm injunction).
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How to prove your guilty...

said by Chubbysumo:

how can the CCI even send out anything remotely related to legal proceedings(even in this case) under that evidence? If the courts will no longer accept it, how can they accuse anyone under it.

Why do you think these empty agreements were struck with the ISPs

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to Fangz

Premium Member

to Fangz
They can't link an IP to a individual, but they can link the download to an IP, and the IP to a individual modem/account, so the IP you happened to use, happened to download illegally, it can be blocked.
If you want to be unblocked YOU (account owner) must call in, listen to TOS and agree to corrective action.

•••••••

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

The sketchy part is contacting Comcast Security group

To end the blocker pop ups, you have to contact Comcast's Customer Security Assurance dept. And that is where the punishment may click in. Comcast's Security department is notoriously unresponsive, undermanned, and never returns calls. To actually get Comcast to stop the blocker or walled garden may be quite an ordeal, especially if they get buried in a large number of violations. The offending infringer may not be disconnected by Comcast, but they may end up waiting many days to get back online.

Arkyngl
@myvzw.com

Arkyngl

Anon

Re: The sketchy part is contacting Comcast Security group

Not sure where you have gotten your information on this group, but historically I've found them easy to reach. I had received a notice about a virus on my computer and reached out to them for help. I had to wait a minute or two on hold, but they were there. I'm pretty sure they have a published number on the security page and they answer the phone--that would make them one of the most responsive groups of this type IMO. I don't know of any other ISPs that put themselves out there like that and answer the phone.
SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL

SunnyD

Member

So extortion racket by the **AA & ISPs?

$35 "fee" to just contest an allegation of infringement and get your service back to "normal"?

This won't get abused. Ever!

••••••

HunterZ
join:2003-07-16
Kent, WA

HunterZ

Member

Comcast's walled gargen

Comcast has traditionally run their walled gardens by using DNS redirection, and not HTML/code injection.

This has caused me trouble in the past when I migrated to a new account that wasn't activated properly, because I explicitly use non-Comcast DNS servers for my router (which in turn acts as a caching and ad-blocking DNS server for all computers on my LAN). All I saw was failed DNS lookups.

pclover
join:2008-08-02
Santa Cruz, CA

pclover

Member

Re: Comcast's walled gargen

I do the same. I run my own DNS server.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

What will Comcast do for Coffee Shops and Hotels??

So I have to worry about my hotel/restaurant customers racking up points and other customers dealing with these redirections?

I called Comcast last month with this very question, and the Security department had nothing useful.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

They can suck my VPN

It works

Borehamwood
@comcast.net

Borehamwood

Anon

Streaming only?

Can the ISP's do this if you're only streaming 'illegal content'?
I use a website to access BBC channels, will this be considered infringing behavior?
borehamwoo
join:2013-02-28
Chicago, IL

borehamwoo

Member

Does this affect downloading only or can they use against you if you are streaming 'illegal content'?

I use a website to watch BBC channels, can this be considered infringing behavior?