Comcast Employs New Botnet Alert System Will alert customers via proxy system that they need a cleaning... Comcast reached out to us today to note that they're employing a new strategy to help deal with customers they've identified as having trojan-infected PCs. According to Comcast, the company is going to start issuing alerts on subscriber PCs (see screenshot below) should the user be showing the telltale signs of botnet or spam relay infection. The alert can either be ignored by the customer, or they can click on a link that will take them to the Comcast security center, which offers cleanup guidance. Comcast isn't alone in trying to automate the trojan identification and cleaning process. In 2006 we talked with Canadian cable operator Cogeco about the use of so-called "walled gardens," something Cox Communications also helped pioneer. Walled garden systems take things one step further by modifying configuration files on the modems, and restricting user access to the Internet. Customers in those instances only see links to ISP help and virus cleaning tools, and full access isn't restored until support is convinced the PC's clean. Comcast tells us they considered the full walled-garden approach, and explored the idea in a draft standarded submitted to the IETF. Given the high volume of different devices that could be connected to the Internet at any one time (VoIP devices, game consoles), Comcast apparently decided against the idea: While in many cases the user is almost guaranteed to view the notification message and take any appropriate remediation actions, this approach poses can pose other challenges. For example, it is not always the case that a user is actively using a computer that uses a web browser or which has a web browser actively running on it....As a result, the ISP may feel the need to maintain a potentially lengthy white list of domains which are not subject to the typical restrictions of a walled garden, which could well prove to be an onerous task, from an operational perspective. For those interested in how the alert system works, Comcast has stopped by our forums to discuss it in more detail and field any questions you might have (again, nice to see Comcast interacting with the community). Comcast says infected PCs are identified through a combination of independent security research that identifies compromised IPs (via groups like Spamhaus), and Comcast network analysis. Comcast says the proxy system they're using does not cache any information, and no usage data is tracked or stored in the process: The notification platform utilizes a standards based approach developed by the Internet Community known as Internet Content Adaption Protocol (RFC3507). When a bot is detected and a customer needs be notified, HTTP traffic (Port TCP 80 only) from the customer's computer is routed via a web proxy. The traffic is routed from the customer's computer to the final destination, a "web server", without modifying the request. When the traffic from the Web server arrives at the proxy the Service Notice is added to HTML content without modifying the original page and then the combined content is routed back to the customer's computer. Comcast's move is certainly a welcome one. While we imagine some security analysts will argue it doesn't go far enough, you'd have to think that any statistical erosion of botnet-infected machines has to be a good thing. As with their recent DNS Redirection push, Comcast also deserves credit for making the process entirely transparent via IETF filings. Still, you have to wonder how many infected customers will avoid the alert, given it looks a lot like the kind of phishing solicitations they're repeatedly told not to click on by the family computer nerd. Again though, it's progress. Mega-ISP abuse departments have traditionally been slow to respond to the threat of botnets, which are used for spam, DDoS attacks, or as part of phishing operations. Over the years we've noticed a substantive disconnect between ISP executives and ISP engineers and the amount of resources each feels the problem warrants. With the continual increase in phishing scams, it's nice to see executives at the nation's largest cable company giving the problem some added funds and attention.
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 | | trust? Isn't that going to look like just about any one of those "Anti-virus" programs that pop up. "WARNING YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED, DOWNLOAD OUR PROGRAM NAAUUGHHH!" And then they turn into a virus themselves.
Even an email I could see being easily mistaken for a trap. Okay, even if they are not mistaken for traps, it will not be long until malware writers start making scripts to look like a comcast warning message.
I see this as a good idea, just not sure how well it will work in reality... -- The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. CPL:IA;ASEL/AMEL. CFI:ASE/AME; IA | |
|  |  | | Re: trust? Another thing is how long before they change dns to route around it and disable the check of it all together. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  |  Mr FelFlynn LivesPremium join:2008-03-17 Louisville, KY | Karl is definitely right about the 'family computer nerd', it looks just like any other pop-up that I'd warn my family against. | |
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 screavic4Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR kudos:1 | Hmmm I foresee malicious software being made copying the comcast alert. Too bad there isn't way that makes the consumer feel safe about clicking on these. -- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. -- JL Comcast | |
|  |  |  screavic4Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm Yeah, I've been brainstorming on it and the only thing I can think of is some type of "image verification" that your customers would pick and image and a phrase of their own and show it on all "official" Comcast messages via Web alerts. My bank does it, it can also be spoofed too though if they really wanted to try hard enough. -- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  pizzFiber pleasePremium join:2000-10-27 Astoria, NY Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by jlivingood:That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. Add a nice pamphlet inside their monthly bills telling them of this new service. So customers know before hand, as alot of people do read their bills and the flyers they stuff inside them.
but good luck on it, not a bad idea at all. -- The more you talk, the less you listen. | |
|  |  |  |  screavic4Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm I too like it, it's one way to save bandwidth too. I also like that Comcast offers antivirus to their customers. -- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | said by pizz:said by jlivingood:That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. Add a nice pamphlet inside their monthly bills telling them of this new service. So customers know before hand, as alot of people do read their bills and the flyers they stuff inside them. but good luck on it, not a bad idea at all. I don't know if we're planning to do that or not. But we are sending emails to customers in the trial area, for what that's worth. -- JL Comcast | |
|  |  |  |  |  MikePremium,Mod join:2000-09-17 Pittsburgh, PA kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS Host: W.O.W. FairPoint World of Warcraft Site Tools Verizon Wireless
| Re: Hmmm In browser popups and emails are not trusted anymore.
Either a letter in the mail or cheaper, an automated phone call suggesting they call tech support. If there is still activity for a said amount of time and no response, kill the port at the switch. -- "If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon. | |
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 |  |  |  | | that's a well intended idea, but people aren't necessarily going to *read it*.
Anything other than a bill in an envelope with a bill usually goes -> trash. | |
|  |  |  |  |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:7 | Re: Hmmm said by dfxmatt:that's a well intended idea, but people aren't necessarily going to *read it*. Anything other than a bill in an envelope with a bill usually goes -> trash. Well, who's fault that then? Send it with their bill and they throw it away. Send it in an email and it gets flagged as spam or just ignored. Post it on a portal website and they never visit it. Doing all three might reach a significantly larger audience, but I wouldn't count on it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Hmmm All my bills are electronic. I look at the amount of the bill and charges. I ignore the rest. Call me if you want to give me information like that. A bill is a bill is more like a due bill. We are spammed by too much crap these days, so maybe they should make a commercial or something? LOL | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | How about a "botnet surcharge?" That'll get people to read the bill! Say an extra $15/mo for every month they're infected, with 1 month refunded when they clean the machine. This way it will get people's attention and give them an incentive to clean their machine.
Another way around the walled-garden dilemma is to only wall off port 80 - this allows VoIP, gaming, SSL sites, etc to work correctly but the moment they use the web browser they get stuck. There should be a way to release it though, say by filling out a form. This way it's a bit more substantial that a virus-looking pop-up, but can still be bypassed once the user acknowledges the problem.
/mackey | |
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 |  |  | | Generate a unique "authenticity code" for each customer. Print it in every bill. ("Your authenticity code is 987654321. All online messages from Comcast will use your code. Emails and popups that claim to be from Comcast but don't have your unique authenticity code number are forgeries.")
Then the message could say "To confirm this message is really from Comcast, it uses this authenticity code which is printed in your monthly bill: 987654321"
This technique also works to prove that emails or other online communications are really from the company they say they're from, any time there's a known-legit printed bill the customer can refer to.
The unique code could be a random number generated for each customer, or to save space, algorithmically generated. (For instance, combine the customer's account number with some secret key text Comcast makes up, then run a message digest function on the result. As long as Comcast keeps the secret key safe, no hacker can know a customer's unique authenticity code without intercepting a prior communication.) | |
|  |  |  |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm
said by sgdoerfler:Generate a unique "authenticity code" for each customer. Print it in every bill. ("Your authenticity code is 987654321. All online messages from Comcast will use your code. Emails and popups that claim to be from Comcast but don't have your unique authenticity code number are forgeries.") Then the message could say "To confirm this message is really from Comcast, it uses this authenticity code which is printed in your monthly bill: 987654321" This technique also works to prove that emails or other online communications are really from the company they say they're from, any time there's a known-legit printed bill the customer can refer to. The unique code could be a random number generated for each customer, or to save space, algorithmically generated. (For instance, combine the customer's account number with some secret key text Comcast makes up, then run a message digest function on the result. As long as Comcast keeps the secret key safe, no hacker can know a customer's unique authenticity code without intercepting a prior communication.) Another good idea. A take on this might be to somehow incorporate the billing / acct ID # from your bill. -- JL Comcast | |
|  |  |  |  |  Jafo232You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.Premium join:2002-10-17 Boonville, NY | Re: Hmmm I think it is a step in the right direction. Honestly though, I know myself and I would ignore that popup as an ad. Perhaps being able to call and confirm instead of clicking a link. Show the phone # and confirmation code in that ad.
I like the idea of walling off users if and ONLY if there is a very low chance of false positives and only if a person can get the restriction lifted quickly.
I have been saying for a long time that ISP's could not only save themselves bandwidth by proactively stopping botnets, they could also help the Net in general. -- Custom PHP/Perl Development. Vbulletin And Wordpress Mods Too! | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | how about making account numbers something a customer can elect on their own as to what the account identifier is?
I've had comcast at 3 locations I've lived and I don't think even for a second I ever remembered the account # without having to pull it up off an old bill - and I don't like to keep around old bills. No, social security number is not a good alternative. | |
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 |  |  |  NerdtalkerWorking Hard, Or Hardly Working?Premium,MVM join:2003-02-18 Tucson, AZ | At that rate, why not give out those one-time-pad emulating security dongles that ETRADE, WOW, and now PayPal are giving out (RSA based).
I just have a hard time seeing users responding to anything other than a straight up block+walled garden. -- "Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB. | |
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 |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by jlivingood:That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. Have a link you can click that will have an auto dialer call the phone number registered with the account of modem. Message just authenticated itself to the user. | |
|  |  |  |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm
said by patcat88:said by jlivingood:That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. Have a link you can click that will have an auto dialer call the phone number registered with the account of modem. Message just authenticated itself to the user. Hey - that's actually a pretty good idea... -- JL Comcast | |
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 |  |  bt join:2009-02-26 canada kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| What about making a copyable (non-clickable) link to the AV Center? Assuming it's got a URL that is obviously Comcast (IE: http(s)://www.comcast.com/whatever) it could reduce some well-intended paranoia, as well make it a bit more difficult for Malware to match it exactly in look but have it lead elsewhere. | |
|  |  |  jus10 join:2009-08-04 Sterling, VA Reviews:
·Comcast
| I suppose the question on my mind is, "where's the SSL"? I mean, if instead of putting that little banner at the top the page redirected to a » connection saying basically, "Excuse me but you're polluting the net, please fix your machine by XXXX. Here's the link you were going to: »", etc, etc.
That would at least cover the "techies". For everyone else, I like the autodialer suggestion below.
I suppose one other bit of confusion among the average folks is that, it might not be the machine redirected that has the virus. At my parents, my Mom, Dad, Brother, Sister and the guestroom have computers connected. I imagine the little notice isn't going to be able to specify which one it is. If there could be a link which gave a little more info (as to which virus or bot it was so that if its a Mac problem my Dad can check his machine and a Linux problem would be my Mom's netbook, etc,etc).
The redirect to security.comcast.net is a start I guess but that doesn't cover all of the problems above. My Mom, Dad, Brother, and Sister in the above don't know my Dad's Comcast logon to download McAfee. My Dad and Mom can't use it at all since they're on Mac and Linux respectively. And there are folks like me who have absolutely no idea what my Comcast login info is. I don't use anything on comcast.net so I know I had to set up something when I got the modem but I haven't looked at is since. (I also don't have any Windows machines so McAfee would be a moot point but I'm just saying as an example).
I think its a good idea and a good start but could use some refinements. Right now it looks like all those other bad popups people get and it leaves open some questions as to "what should I be looking for where?" questions when trying to go bothunting. | |
|  |  |  | | said by jlivingood:That's definitely something we are hoping to learn about in the tech trial. It's a tough problem to solve. How about you don't do it at all and let people solve their own computing problems. Are you going to actually be client side and reside on the machine itself or are you going to be deep inspecting each packet for malicious code? How are you going to deal with false positives and who's database are you using? This has bad news written all over it. Just be a dumb pipe provider and get out of my way. I already pay you for the bandwidth I want, so stop trying to regulate what happens on my machine please. | |
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 |  richdelbGo Hawks GoPremium join:2003-01-22 Algonquin, IL | said by screavic4:I foresee malicious software being made copying the comcast alert. Too bad there isn't way that makes the consumer feel safe about clicking on these. This is the VERY first thing that came to my mind. How does Comcast deal with this issue? What a pain in the rear for them. Nice to see Comcast at least working on finding a way to address the issue, and in such an transparent manor. | |
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 ropeguruPremium join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA | This will really work... For all those infected PC's that never go to the comcast.net web page.
Also, between the time the info is analyzed by these methods and the IP is returned to Comcast, what's to say that the ip hasn't been reallocated to someone elses modem giving false positives. | |
|  |  NSM998 join:2009-02-12 Philadelphia, PA 1 edit | Re: This will really work... said by ropeguru:For all those infected PC's that never go to the comcast.net web page. Also, between the time the info is analyzed by these methods and the IP is returned to Comcast, what's to say that the ip hasn't been reallocated to someone elses modem giving false positives. You may want to read the IETF draft on how the system works, which is posted at: »tools.ietf.org/id/draft-livingoo···n-00.txt | |
|  |  |  FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL | Re: This will really work... I suppose this can be used as another way to inject ads as well...another way to skirt the system uh? -- »www.freedombuild.net Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
|  |  |  |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:6 | Re: This will really work... said by FreedomBuild:I suppose this can be used as another way to inject ads as well...another way to skirt the system uh? Well, it can, and that's a huge problem if it happens. What Comcast is doing doesn't trigger this problem (the page that Comcast refers people to isn't marketing anything that Comcast folks don't already get for free as part of their subscription). Rogers, on the other hand, experimented with this kind of system to sell people more bandwidth. That's a problem.
The ISP isn't paid to get in the way of desired communication. However, if you're infected, the ISP ought to shut you off. Comcast has figured out a way to avoid that shut off, and customers should find that as less objectionable. As long as it is not abused, like you point out. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/ | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: This will really work... Yes, this basically is a man-in-the-middle attack injecting code on top of your existing traffic. If I were to do this to someone, would there be an understanding officer at my door?
I agree that botnets need to be handled and applaud Comcast for trying to do it. But perhaps a phone call might work better, after all you know their call center's going to be flooded anyway. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: This will really work... Or simply just cut the service period for the offending computer..this is corporates way to dumb down the consumer and introduce their own form of nebuad/phorm system and get a green light to do it. -- »www.freedombuild.net Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: This will really work... and then that brings in to paying per machine. | |
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 | | Comcast is too big Ma cable needs to be broken up. | |
|  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: Comcast is too big They built the system with their own money.
However I'd totally be for municipal competition... | |
|  |  |  1 edit | Re: Comcast is too big said by iansltx:They built the system with their own money. On the private property of others forcibly seized via utility easements.
I was actually referring to the whole walled garden concept though. | |
|  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
| Re: Comcast is too big Sorry, but I don't want my cable node compromised by a bot flooding the network with spam. It's just not cool.
About the utility easements, maybe statewide franchising wasn't so great an idea, and munis need to kick the bad cablecos out if there's something better to be had. | |
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 |  |  | | I'm for municipal competition. The barriers to entry are too high for most anyone else. | |
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 |  | | Wah? If you don't like them, do not give them your business. Do not encourage others to give them business. I do not like them and I encourage people to go elsewhere, however just because a company is big doesn't mean it needs to be broken up. That makes no sense.
People like that seem to be the same ones that want government intervention into everything.
You want the same people that provide the Postal Service and the DMV to supply your Internet service? Good luck with that one.
said by fifty nine:Ma cable needs to be broken up. -- KieranMullen »360oregon.com
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 1 edit | Phone? Whatever happened to when the ISP detected your machine as being a virus infested plague on their network and just shut you down.Then the ISP uses something called a 'Phone' and tells the customer why they won't have Internet for a while. But the customer may get their connection for a day(at least) to download a trusted, recommended anti-virus product. With a one week trial of restoration of service, to see that they are indeed clean.
DNS redirection hacking breaks the Internet, and as mentioned above, Virus writers will make small scripts to mimic the warning message and then take you to FAKE anti-virus products. -- Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion. | |
|  |  See 16 replies to this post | |
 Reviews:
·AT&T Wireless Br..
1 edit | ISP disabling customers for virus problems well see I work for a local ISP and if there was a virus on your computer and its messing up are network we disable the user intill the virus as been fix and that anti-virus as to be to update before we can re-enable the service.
also on are wireless network say your package is 768kbps/256kbps and if you have p2p or virus on your compute we can turn down the service to 47.1kbps intill you get the problems fix. | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: ISP disabling customers for virus problems said by treichhart:well see I work for a local ISP and if there was a virus on your computer and its messing up are network we disable the user intill the virus as been fix and that anti-virus as to be to update before we can re-enable the service. also on are wireless network say your package is 768kbps/256kbps and if you have p2p or virus on your compute we can turn down the service to 47.1kbps intill you get the problems fix. The danger of throttling a user is, they will just blame you for the slowness and YOUR bad performance and switch to your competitor with their infested machine. | |
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·AT&T Wireless Br..
1 edit | the reason why we do it so it doesnt slow down the network and spread to other customers on the network. Why should other customers feel the pain of one person virus problem?
I think more ISP's should turn down customers for that reason to be truthful. if they do that then customers should know not to get virus or download anymore p2p stuff because bandwidth isnt cheap you know. | |
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 Reviews:
·Comcast
| needs to be a phone call No 2 ways about it. Needs to be a phone call.
Couple reasons, firstly, that popup looks just like the scams that got those people into trouble in the first place. Hopefully they've learned by now and won't click on them. Second, if you send an email, it's just as suspicious. Thrid, yes third... what's to stop virus/trojan writers from using popup/popovers that look just like Comcasts? It's trivial to detect what ISP someone is using and customise it.
Dear Comcast... just pick up the phone and alert the user the hard way. Yes it's more expensive but it's 100% more effective. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time. | |
|  |  | | Re: needs to be a phone call A phone call for every infected machine is a bit time consuming as nearly everyone will demand to speak to a human. IMO, EVERYTHING is locked down on the infected machine until it is fixed. The only thing you get is a special comcast security (plus window update, and some security related site) website (all web traffic routed to that site, but no mail or anything else) that has: an explanation, a howto, mirrors/direct links to AV software, phone numbers, and a web based email client. A popup and replaced banner ad can easily be ignored and probably spoofed to fool many, but a special forced redirect is impossible to ignore fairly hard to spoof.
When I was on a campus network, if your computer started acting strange (packet that make you appear to be infected, suspicious/malicious behavior, and others), you were automatically shutdown until you contacted the network admins. I don't think something like this would work since it'll probably tick off a lot of people and the sheer number of people. | |
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 ncherryPremium join:2003-07-13 Monroe Township, NJ | I can see this causing a problem I can easily see this causing problems. I have non-windows based systems and in the past I've had problems with my email being blocked because Comcast determined that I had a spam problem. Yet I had no such problem. Also they send important email from non-comcast domains. And getting the support folks to help out is not going to be possible as they can't see past their scripts.
I'm not saying that this shouldn't be done I'm just saying that I can see this becoming a problem. Heck the support folks didn't even know that Comcast was blocking port 25. -- Neil Cherry Linux Home Automation Linux HA Blog Author: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
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