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Comcast Offers 'Clean' DNS Server List
For those who don't want to be helped by new domain service...

We've been watching ISPs deploy DNS redirection services (ISPs using mistyped URLS to make a buck) for some time, with some carriers doing a better job than others -- specifically when it comes to the quality of their opt-out processes. As we noted on Tuesday, Comcast is only the latest ISP to adopt the technology, nationally deploying their "domain helper service" this week.

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While these services aren't particularly liked by 'Net "purists" and are largely a money grab, at least Comcast's going about the money grab the right way. We've seen ISPs so blinded by the potential new revenue of these services, they never stopped to measure how annoying the opt-out process was -- or if it even worked at all.

Not only is the carrier answering user questions in our forums about the service, we noticed last night they're offering this list of clean DNS servers for users who want nothing to do with the service. That's a nice change from ISPs who simply use cookies to opt-users out of such systems. No ISP we've seen has bothered to make the service an "opt in" affair, which isn't particularly surprising.

Given that ISPs seem to be employing these services whether customers like it or not, Comcast says they're working to standardize the use of the technology across carriers. Comcast says they've filed this IETF draft to help solidify best practices for the implementation of DNS redirection services, which is about as above board as we've seen an ISP get in terms of deploying a solution to a "problem" nobody wanted fixed.
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chachster
Premium Member
join:2002-08-07
Westerville, OH

chachster

Premium Member

Nice

Nice to see the option is available. So far Comcast seems to have most sense. 250GB cap (while most would prefer none, it is the largest) and DNS redirect with the option to use a "clean" set of servers for the purists.. I don't have Comcast available to me, but I wish other ISP's would take a look at this....Options!! WOW! What a concept!

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Nice

If you recall, Embarq's opt-out process lasted only as long as your IP lease lasted.

andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Aurora, IL

andyross

MVM

Re: Nice

Comcast's opt-out is based on your modem's MAC address. When a DHCP request related to that MAC is asked for, it passes on the one of the 2 sets of DNS servers, depending on if you are in or out.

The only drawback is that if you change modems, you need to opt out again.

Also, after the opt-out, you need to reboot your router (or computer if directly connected). You may still need to reboot your computer, or at least do an "IPCONFIG /RENEW" so the computer itself grabs the newer DNS passed on by the router.

jlivingood
Premium Member
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

jlivingood

Premium Member

Re: Nice

said by andyross:

Also, after the opt-out, you need to reboot your router (or computer if directly connected). You may still need to reboot your computer, or at least do an "IPCONFIG /RENEW" so the computer itself grabs the newer DNS passed on by the router.
True - if you want that opt-out to take immediate effect then you do need to reboot that router/computer. Otherwise, when your DHCP lease renews naturally it will take effect (understandably some users won't want to wait for that).
jlivingood

jlivingood to chachster

Premium Member

to chachster
Important to also note that for many of the more tech-savvy customers who had long ago statically assigned their DNS servers: all the old servers are the opted-out / no redirect servers. Thus, if you statically assigned DNS IPs some time ago, you were opted out by default.

And, though we have provided this long list, the most automated / easy way to opt-out (IMHO) is to use the opt-out page, which automatically updates your DNS IPs via DHCP. But we wanted to publish the list anyway - since some folks wanted to see the list.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Nice

said by jlivingood:

Important to also note that for many of the more tech-savvy customers who had long ago statically assigned their DNS servers: all the old servers are the opted-out / no redirect servers. Thus, if you statically assigned DNS IPs some time ago, you were opted out by default.

And, though we have provided this long list, the most automated / easy way to opt-out (IMHO) is to use the opt-out page, which automatically updates your DNS IPs via DHCP. But we wanted to publish the list anyway - since some folks wanted to see the list.
I agree. But there is one weakness in the opt-out system. And that is, after a couple weeks no one will remember about the opt-out option and I am pretty sure Comcast won't be continually advertising this capability and the opt-out page going forward. So all those who might opt-out probably didn't need the page to begin with and those who are less in the know will never hear about it ever again.
phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD

1 recommendation

phantom6294

Member

Re: Nice

said by FFH5:

I agree. But there is one weakness in the opt-out system. And that is, after a couple weeks no one will remember about the opt-out option and I am pretty sure Comcast won't be continually advertising this capability and the opt-out page going forward. So all those who might opt-out probably didn't need the page to begin with and those who are less in the know will never hear about it ever again.
Not according to Comcast:
said by ctg1701a:

...snip...
Opting-out is simple, via an easy-to-find link on the top of the Web error page one receives when an invalid domain named is entered into a browser.
...snip...
Chris
Comcast National Engineering & Technical Operations
So, if said link remains on the re-direct page... every time a customer has a re-direct, they will have the option to opt-out and be given a link to opt-out.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Nice

said by phantom6294:
said by FFH5:

I agree. But there is one weakness in the opt-out system. And that is, after a couple weeks no one will remember about the opt-out option and I am pretty sure Comcast won't be continually advertising this capability and the opt-out page going forward. So all those who might opt-out probably didn't need the page to begin with and those who are less in the know will never hear about it ever again.
Not according to Comcast:
said by ctg1701a:

...snip...
Opting-out is simple, via an easy-to-find link on the top of the Web error page one receives when an invalid domain named is entered into a browser.
...snip...
Chris
Comcast National Engineering & Technical Operations
So, if said link remains on the re-direct page... every time a customer has a re-direct, they will have the option to opt-out and be given a link to opt-out.
Then that is very acceptable. If they leave that option on there.

jlivingood
Premium Member
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

1 recommendation

jlivingood

Premium Member

Re: Nice

said by FFH5:

Then that is very acceptable. If they leave that option on there.
We will. It was a policy decision to have a prominent and permanent opt-out link on that search page. It will not be going away.

bemis
Premium Member
join:2008-07-18
united state

bemis to chachster

Premium Member

to chachster
Agreed, this is a nice change to see vs. cramming things down your throat w/ no options

herb77
join:2005-02-23
Fort Myers, FL

herb77 to chachster

Member

to chachster
All I do is block Embarq's redirect site with my router.

Sodoshi
join:2009-04-27
Canton, OH

Sodoshi

Member

It does pose a question...

Does the advertising redirection page count towards your bandwidth cap? Admittedly it should be a small amount (unless you are really bad at typing), but it still seems like something that you should not have to pay for as well.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: It does pose a question...

I'm sure it does, but the actual bandwidth used would be fairly minuscule.
dlewis23
join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL

dlewis23

Member

OpenDNS

Why don't they just tell people to use OpenDNS?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: OpenDNS

Because money they could make then goes to OpenDNS?
tomdlgns
Premium Member
join:2003-03-21

tomdlgns to dlewis23

Premium Member

to dlewis23
said by dlewis23:

Why don't they just tell people to use OpenDNS?
i like openDNS i use it at home and i have set it up for small offices on a budget and at users homes, so i dont want anyone thinking that i am bashing openDNS.

openDNS does not always have faster service
openDNS is also for blocking websites (i bet 7 out of 10 people use openDNS for site blocking as opposed to wanting faster DNS lookup)
openDNS has to be configured, the above solution is already setup on Comcasts side.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: OpenDNS

said by tomdlgns:

openDNS does not always have faster service
openDNS is also for blocking websites (i bet 7 out of 10 people use openDNS for site blocking as opposed to wanting faster DNS lookup)
openDNS has to be configured, the above solution is already setup on Comcasts side.
I agree. The major draw for OpenDNS is their ability to block phishing sites; malware sites; porn sites; etc. and tailor that to your specific needs.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss to dlewis23

Premium Member

to dlewis23
said by dlewis23:

Why don't they just tell people to use OpenDNS?
OpenDNS also, by default, does the same thing unless you opt-out of their custom search page?
tomdlgns
Premium Member
join:2003-03-21

tomdlgns

Premium Member

Re: OpenDNS

said by AVonGauss:

said by dlewis23:

Why don't they just tell people to use OpenDNS?
OpenDNS also, by default, does the same thing unless you opt-out of their custom search page?
i dont think you can opt out. but i might be wrong.

i know you can change what it says when a blocked or invalid domain comes up...other than their default message.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: OpenDNS

said by tomdlgns:
said by AVonGauss:
said by dlewis23:

Why don't they just tell people to use OpenDNS?
OpenDNS also, by default, does the same thing unless you opt-out of their custom search page?
i dont think you can opt out. but i might be wrong.

i know you can change what it says when a blocked or invalid domain comes up...other than their default message.
If you pick the right options(have to be registered user) you can turn OpenDNS servers in to plain vanilla DNS servers that will return a NXDOMAIN errors.

Napsterbater
Meh
MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA
(Software) OPNsense
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

Napsterbater

MVM

Re: OpenDNS

404 Errors are not from DNS server.

404 errors come from web servers when a file you are looking for is not found, thus if DNS lookup failed there would be no server to give the 404 error.

DNS servers give a "NXDOMAIN" I.e Non-Existent Domain error, not a 404
tomdlgns
Premium Member
join:2003-03-21

tomdlgns to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

If you pick the right options(have to be registered user) you can turn OpenDNS servers in to plain vanilla DNS servers that will return a 404 page error.
i am a registered user. i have over 35 networks using openDNS, i have never seen that option.

i am not saying it doesnt exist, i was just saying that i didnt think you could change what page loads up when you make a mistake.

openDNS makes money off of those pages, the ads, i dont know why they would allow you to use another landing page when you have a typo in the domain.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: OpenDNS

said by tomdlgns:
said by FFH5:

If you pick the right options(have to be registered user) you can turn OpenDNS servers in to plain vanilla DNS servers that will return a NXDOMAIN errors.
i am a registered user. i have over 35 networks using openDNS, i have never seen that option.
Go to dashboard; settings; advanced settings; and UNCHECK "enable typo correction" and "enable opendns proxy". You will then get the basic error msgs on bad domain names.




P.S.>> after making the change, it takes a few minutes before your new setting are propagated to all the OpenDNS servers.

"Error with those options unchecked" lets Firefox browser handle the error after getting a bad NXDOMAIN response from OpenDNS server:

No redirection ; normal action on error


And with OpenDNS server redirecting with those options CHECKED, you get this:

redirection on error

kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

kapil

Member

Better...

...but I would still like this to be an opt-in system, rather than opt-out.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

Uncle Paul

Member

Re: Better...

While they have made the opt-out process easier, I agree opt-in is preferred.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to kapil

Premium Member

to kapil
said by kapil:

...but I would still like this to be an opt-in system, rather than opt-out.
But but but theres no money in opt-in.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

AND when your ysd to this

filtering!!!yaaaaaa

zalternate
join:2007-02-22
freedom land

zalternate

Member

great description

»www.pcworld.com/business ··· ing.html

.....users, however, resent being redirected and sarcastically term it "DNS (Domain Name System) hijacking," a nefarious hacker technique that redirects users to Web sites they didn't intend to go to.

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium Member
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA

pokesph

Premium Member

redirects

Oh One other minor thing:
the monetized search page is powered by Yahoo. Yahoo!

No one uses Yahoo search any more. IMO, its just yet another reason not to use this crap.

At least you can (and I did) opt-out and thanks for the list of your good and bad DNS servers.. now if I can find one with less then 50ms+ ping, I'll be happy.
estover4
Premium Member
join:2004-03-16
Valencia, PA

estover4

Premium Member

What about the website the person was going to go to in....

A question I still have not been able to get answered is:
What about the small web sites that are not as high up on the search engines. If I have a client refer his aunt and she mistypes my URL (stoverd_landscape.com when it is stovers_landscape.com) and she is give a list of my competition, stone_landscape.com who has an onsite IT guy who does nothing but sit there and work on the website rankings all day. Comcast just handed a potential client of mine, to my direct competion.

PLEASE tell me how that is handled. Can I sue Comcast for redirecting my clients to other providers just because they mistyped my URL.

This is of course on top off all the other reasons.

marleyinoc
join:2008-12-08
Ocean City, MD

marleyinoc

Member

comcast dns helper opt out is quick and painless

Yeah, I used their opt out and it was quick and painless. And for the first time I looked at my modem settings, part of the process. I never even knew I could look at that. Which is my dumbness, but still... Anyway, all around Kudos to Comcast!