  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy.
The state of Minnesota should step in and ban such activity. Perhaps instead it should focus on keeping bridges from collapsing instead. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed Yes- why would anyone think a wireless network would offer higher speeds than a land-line network? (Well, I suppose maybe DSL would be slower, but note cable is here as well offering very high speeds) | |
|  |  |   halfband Premium join:2002-06-01 Huntsville, AL | Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed Odd, but the article seems be talking about fiber broadband to replace T1s, not wi-fi. -- Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
|  |  |  |   madon
@direcpc.com | Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed dude! i remember reading a year ago wireless radios broke the 1gb barrier. forget fios forget docsis 3.0 | |
|  |  |  |  |   dav0r translate Premium join:2003-06-15 Albertville, MN
·Charter Pipeline
·Embarq
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed Agreed. Wireless will rule. It doesn't matter how much it may be killing babies or whatever. It's cheaper to deploy and it's a matter of time. It's why I left landline to go over to the dark side of wireless in the telephony business.
P.S. $%#* Comcast... | |
|  |   pipdipchip 8 Megabits A Second Premium join:2003-12-04 Hanover, MN
| said by pnh102 :The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy. The state of Minnesota should step in and ban such activity. Perhaps instead it should focus on keeping bridges from collapsing instead. 1. The state of Minnesota and their bridges have nothing with funding for Municipal Wi-Fi in St. Paul.
2. As with law passed, it must (should) be supported by the residents of the municipality. If residents, want their town to have Wi-Fi, who are you or who is Comcast/ Qwest to tell them otherwise?
3. God forbid should these near-Monopolistic companies have any competition... -- Webmaster of WRTrouters.com - Computer Science Major | |
|  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by pipdipchip :The state of Minnesota and their bridges have nothing with funding for Municipal Wi-Fi in St. Paul. Government is charged with particular responsibilities, keeping roads in working order is one of them, providing wifi on the taxpayer's nickel isn't.
said by pipdipchip :If residents, want their town to have Wi-Fi, who are you or who is Comcast/ Qwest to tell them otherwise? What if the next politician runs for office offering taxpayer-financed Bentleys to all the people, all on the taxpayer's nickel of course. Would that still be good?
Government at all levels, at least theoretically, was always supposed to be limited in scope. Unfortunately, politicians have figured out that the best way to win votes is to simply neglect doing the things that government should be doing and instead give out as many "freebies" as possible instead. It makes it much easier to raise taxes so that the things that should be done can be done.
said by pipdipchip :God forbid should these near-Monopolistic companies have any competition... There is nothing stopping private citizens from raising capital and investing their own money into such a venture. At least then should it fail, they, not we, take the hit. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |  |  |   Megladon
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed Hey dingleberry, this town didnt have any bridge falling of any kind, that was Minneapolis. Cant we let the rest of the state do whatever it wants to make its people and government happy while Minneapolis works out its own bridge problems (and already enjoys its own city wide wifi). Quit being a corporate tool. | |
|  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Fiber is a lot faster then Wi-Fi.
Besides, if the incumbents have a muni threat to kill, they'll offer their best products (VDSL, DOCSIS 3.0 etc) and have sales on prices, so the consumers will have nice speed options and so on.... at least until the Muni threat is killed.... then the lockstep price hikes and so on can begin. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by KrK :Fiber is a lot faster then Wi-Fi. Not if you use wifi as a mechanism for getting to the fiber. Even the fastest wifi will not come close to utilizing the bandwidth available with fiber.
said by KrK :Besides, if the incumbents have a muni threat to kill, they'll offer their best products (VDSL, DOCSIS 3.0 etc) and have sales on prices, so the consumers will have nice speed options and so on.... at least until the Muni threat is killed.... then the lockstep price hikes and so on can begin. And the taxpayers lose because of the tax hikes and/or government service cuts that will be needed to make the government provided Internet work. We've seen this happen in just about every city where municipal Internet, particularly wireless, has been tried. Why do other cities need to continue proving that municipal wifi doesn't work? -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | said by pnh102 :The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy. Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by marigolds :Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article. What about this? quote: The region says that it's continuing to look into expanding a municipal wireless network based on fiber which will hopefully offer speeds that can compete globally for years to come.
Running wifi on fiber... that just defeats the whole point of fiber if you want speed. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by pnh102 :said by marigolds :Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article. What about this? quote: The region says that it's continuing to look into expanding a municipal wireless network based on fiber which will hopefully offer speeds that can compete globally for years to come.
Running wifi on fiber... that just defeats the whole point of fiber if you want speed. I searched the whole article and did not find that phrase anywhere in it. The article stub here is a misleading. It's a municipal gigabit ultrabroadband network, not a municipal wireless network. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by marigolds :I searched the whole article and did not find that phrase anywhere in it. The article stub here is a misleading. It's a municipal gigabit ultrabroadband network, not a municipal wireless network. Even if that's the case, I don't see how this is going to spur any competition in the consumer Internet market. Not many people can purchase the equipment needed to access such a network.
But it still begs the question, why is such a network needed? What can't the city do currently that it would need such a network to do? -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed Well, since my field is GIS and I know the twin cities are leaders in municipal GIS... I imagine office to office terabyte imagery transfers for the parcel fabric would be a start. Also very useful for disaster response and public safety when prepping mobile units (ideally weekly refreshes of ~300GB of data, but realistically most cities right now are only refreshing every 2 years and using dispatchers to fill in the gaps). -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed said by marigolds :Well, since my field is GIS and I know the twin cities are leaders in municipal GIS... I imagine office to office terabyte imagery transfers for the parcel fabric would be a start. I see what you're saying but on the flip side, say that the twin cities cannot currently do this because they lack this network. I could agree with the idea if the Twin Cities needed to be able to do what you say in order to provide a vital city service to the people who live there. But if the people are getting by just fine without it, it makes it harder to justify the spending.
said by marigolds :Also very useful for disaster response and public safety when prepping mobile units (ideally weekly refreshes of ~300GB of data, but realistically most cities right now are only refreshing every 2 years and using dispatchers to fill in the gaps). Hmmm... if this bleeding edge technology I don't think relying on it for disaster response is the best of ideas. Although this is a bit of a segue, we saw what happened to 911 service in New England when FairPoint decided to change out the existing, working technology for something new. It was a disaster. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed It's a well established technology for disaster response in Japan (in particular for earthquake response). Japan is really the bleeding edge where they are using a dedicated ultra broadband satellite for emergency response. In the U.S., we basically have to send out units blind and normally get up to date imagery 2-6 weeks after the disaster incident, if that. Mobile units basically go out for field assessment with old data because there is not enough bandwidth to update them regularly. In other words, there is no existing working technology in this area in the United States.
Similarly for the parcel fabric idea... what cities basically do now is spend several hundred thousand a year ($5-10 per parcel) to do the data updates not including data acquisition and salaries. Yes, people get by without it, but the cost expenditure is easily in the millions per year for a city the size of Minneapolis. Adding in the bandwidth can allow the shift towards stronger use of lidar and aerial imagery for assessment and cadastrel resulting in a very significant drop in annual costs. On top of that, it would allow citizens to get routine free access to that data. Right now that data is free for some areas (like St Louis County) while I have seen some cities charge seven figures for that data (essentially closing all access outside of the city office). The service is there, but it is only available to major title companies. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|  Turbocpe Premium join:2001-12-22 IA | It's Qwest - not Quest quote: Comcast, Quest Annoyed With Twin Cities Wi-Fi Plans
It's Qwest - not Quest. The headline has a typo. | |
|  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: It's Qwest - not Quest said by Turbocpe : quote: Comcast, Quest Annoyed With Twin Cities Wi-Fi Plans
It's Qwest - not Quest. The headline has a typo. Qwest, Quest, Qworst, is all the same crap by any name. Qwest DSL survivor here. -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|   GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Hey, if it doesn't work, the taxpayers will cover it
If a government network could be set up, the city would then consider serving homes and businesses. But that could cost nearly $300 million, according to one estimate. The city doesn't have that kind of cash, but believes it would be possible to issue bonds to build the network and pay off the debt by leasing access on the network to multiple providers, who would compete for customers. Comcast and Qwest say they could easily increase speeds on their networks as demand for bandwidth goes up. Comcast's Twin Cities network could deliver connections faster than 100-megabits-per second if necessary, spokeswoman Mary Beth Schubert said. The company says it is testing 100-megabit traffic between facilities in Philadelphia and McLean, Va. But the two providers say they've seen no indication that anyone is clamoring for the kind of broadband that the two cities are envisioning, and they warn that municipal systems are more trouble than they're worth. They both point to Provo, Utah, where a municipally owned fiber-optic network has been drowning in red ink for several years. Earlier this month, the city of Provo decided to sell iProvo to a private provider called Broadweave. The city bureaucrat making the "use bonds" claim doesn't have to pay the higher taxes if wrong. Hopefully the pols and the taxpayers(if they get to vote on the bond issue) are more intelligent about the chances of the project making economical sense. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
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·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Hey, if it doesn't work, the taxpayers will cover it This is a smart move by the city.
If they just make Qwest and Comcast believe that they are a threat, Qwest and Comcast will upgrade and offer their best speeds and prices to local residents.... even if the city eventually does nothing.... It will buy the residents time of cheaper broadband and better services.
Until Qwest and Comcast figure it out, anyway. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|  |   marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| said by GOLFnSUN :The city bureaucrat making the "use bonds" claim doesn't have to pay the higher taxes if wrong. Hopefully the pols and the taxpayers(if they get to vote on the bond issue) are more intelligent about the chances of the project making economical sense. "use bonds" are revenue bonds, not general obligation bonds. Huge difference when you are talking about the potential impact on taxes. The hard part will be getting anyone to buy the bonds. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|  IndyDoug
join:2003-10-26 Indianapolis, IN
·RoadRunner Cable
| WiFi for the people Cities across the country will eventually offer free WiFi. It's the natural evolution of technology for the benefit of the people. Internet access if almost a necessity. The wrangling between private corps and govt. bureaucracy is a hurdle that will have to be overcome. | |
|  |   GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: WiFi for the people said by IndyDoug :Cities across the country will eventually offer free WiFi. It's the natural evolution of technology for the benefit of the people. Internet access if almost a necessity. The wrangling between private corps and govt. bureaucracy is a hurdle that will have to be overcome. Citywide WiFi won't happen. The technology just isn't suited for it. Citywide WiMax and LTE will happen but that will be driven by large nationwide companies and not by city governments. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|  |  |   knightmb Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: WiFi for the people said by GOLFnSUN :said by IndyDoug :Cities across the country will eventually offer free WiFi. It's the natural evolution of technology for the benefit of the people. Internet access if almost a necessity. The wrangling between private corps and govt. bureaucracy is a hurdle that will have to be overcome. Citywide WiFi won't happen. The technology just isn't suited for it. Citywide WiMax and LTE will happen but that will be driven by large nationwide companies and not by city governments. How big of a city do you mean? My entire city has wi-fi access, though you have to pay for it. But it works anywhere in the city? This is using the standard 'b' 'g' signals that everyone knows. | |
|   cao1964
join:2000-08-09 Danville, PA
| great news Love to see gov do something better than these monopy companies, even when they set up something that looks good, here come the same company screwing it up, like bittorrent, I love to see more cities do something and make it work, if nothing else I like to see them try to see if its something viable or to see if its really been done better by the companies which I dought. | |
|  |  Believer
join:2002-07-04 Baltimore, MD
| Re: great news You do realize that wireless gear is capable of 10Gbps speeds don't you? Gigabit wireless is growing and definitely a solution. You can run Internet, VoIP and video over it without any issues and it acts just like fiber. Definitely more of an urban solution though. -- Comtrain Certified Tower Climber | |
|   fuziwuzi Not born yesterday Premium join:2005-07-01 Atlanta, GA | imagine that... ... the cable and phone companies bitching about some competition. Are they afraid? | |
|  grumpy3b
join:2001-12-11 Lompoc, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·Millenicom
| Muni Wifi here in Lompoc is a dismal failure They have had like 5-years now and one still cannot get a solid stable signal 100ft away from most nodes.
Their solution has been to provide "base units" extend the Tx range of your wifi card. On minor issue is these base units must be PLUGGED INTO 110v outlets so much for the mobile part of the muni mobile wifi.
nice to see if somewhere it might eventually work out well...but here where the sewer meets the sea it's a failure. Thanks Mayor Dick. -- Using Millenicom? Come visit the Unofficial Millenicom forum here on BBR »Millenicom | |
|  theDUDE vote with your wallet
join:2008-05-10 Wytheville, VA
·HughesNet Satellit..
| not bad here i know a few people in my area with wireless from two providers and they seem to have no problems, some even enjoy good connections to xboxlive. one friend has 2.0dn/2.0up and sometimes gets speeds of 4.0 i would be quite happy with that. P.S. one of the W.I.S.P.'s has been handling wireless everything for local governments for years so i do believe they know what they're doing. | |
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