  sansri88 Go digtal you analog laggards Premium join:2005-12-17 New York, NY clubs:  | Tsk tsk... As soon as FiOS comes, I'm switching.
Comcast+Sandvine=See ya later! | |
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 |  |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by TKJunkMail :said by sansri88 :As soon as FiOS comes, I'm switching. Comcast+Sandvine=See ya later! Verizon+Sandvine=What are you going to do then? All fiber G-PON baby, PORN for the masses. | |
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 |  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs: | move to another ISP that doesn't use the technology ? If possible. | |
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 |  |  |   sansri88 Go digtal you analog laggards Premium join:2005-12-17 New York, NY clubs:  | Re: Tsk tsk... Nope not possible till FiOS comes here in early 2008. Just out of reach of DSL (18,100 ft from CO). | |
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 |  |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | Is VZ using Sandvine or others like it? Cites? | |
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 |  |  |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Tsk tsk... said by TScheisskopf :Is VZ using Sandvine or others like it? Cites? Verizon doesn't have to, fiber all the way the *information super highway* is now. Cites??? Can't prove a negative. Cites that Comcast doesn't use puppies to make coax. | |
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 |   craYhops
@comcast.net | Comcast tight Whining about speeds? i consistently get 8-9 mb down and 2 or more up. latency to mpls server is under 60. im in eastern wi. no complaints from me | |
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 |  |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Comcast tight said by craYhops :
Whining about speeds? i consistently get 8-9 mb down and 2 or more up. latency to mpls server is under 60. im in eastern wi. no complaints from me If you complain you will lose your job as an apologist. | |
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 |   crypto7ogic
join:2001-08-29 Dayton, OH clubs: | Re: Tsk tsk... Comcast=See ya later! | |
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 Kdee
join:2005-08-26 Etobicoke, ON
| VOTE With Your Dollars!
If your ISP does this sort of stupidity, dump them for one who doesn't. In Canada (Ontario mostly), that means dumping Rogers (who does this throttling B.S.) for providers like Teksavvy (assuming you can get DSL where you live). If enough people do this, the ISP's that throttle will likely change their tune. | |
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 |   sansri88 Go digtal you analog laggards Premium join:2005-12-17 New York, NY clubs:  | Re: VOTE With Your Dollars! That's the thing I can't get DSL here. It's either Comcast or Comcast for high speed internet. | |
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 |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: VOTE With Your Dollars! No DSL ? DSL Extreme works on both Verizon and AT&T lines, and doesn't come bundled with cr@p. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 |  |  |   sansri88 Go digtal you analog laggards Premium join:2005-12-17 New York, NY clubs:  | Re: VOTE With Your Dollars! Too far from the CO. | |
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 |  |  |  NormanS Premium,MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by en102 :No DSL ? DSL Extreme works on both Verizon and AT&T lines, and doesn't come bundled with cr@p. When you are too far from the CO, you are just out of luck. DSL Extreme can't alter the physics of copper. -- Norman ~Oh Lord, why have you come ~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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 |  magusat999
join:2005-07-08 Oakland, CA
| I'm waiting for a company to switch to - but I live in Oakland, California - a city that has it's head further up the ass of any large company that blows a fart in their direction than any other in the Bay Area. The politicians here could give a flying fuck about how companies like Comcast perform or treat customers - and Comcast knows it has Oakland by the nuts. We COULD have some competition - but they've got the City Council so deep in their back pockets that we will probably be the last city on planet Earth to ever get that underperforming parasite off our backs... | |
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 japimp102
join:2003-03-20 | Tsk tsk... I'm with that comcast know they are wrong. | |
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  batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs: | I have your technology right here. quote: "[Comcast] has a responsibility to manage our network to ensure our customers have the best service, and we use available technologies to do so."
Nods are available technology, add them. | |
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  PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Walking Contradiction said by Charlie Douglas of Comcast :
[Comcast] has a responsibility to manage our network to ensure our customers have the best service, and we use available technologies to do so."
"We're not blocking access to any application, and we don't throttle any traffic," So which is it? Sounds like a contradiction to me...
-- A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe | |
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 |  bluedyedvd
join:2007-04-15 Overland Park, KS
| Re: Walking Contradiction said by PolarBear :said by Charlie Douglas of Comcast :
[Comcast] has a responsibility to manage our network to ensure our customers have the best service, and we use available technologies to do so."
"We're not blocking access to any application, and we don't throttle any traffic," So which is it? Sounds like a contradiction to me... maybe he is saying we reserve the right as some point in future | |
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 |   swhx7 Premium join:2006-07-23 Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by PolarBear :said by Charlie Douglas of Comcast : [Comcast] has a responsibility to manage our network to ensure our customers have the best service, and we use available technologies to do so."
"We're not blocking access to any application, and we don't throttle any traffic," So which is it? Sounds like a contradiction to me... What they were accused of doing was not blocking all bittorrent, and not exactly throttling it overall. Rather, what Comcast was accused of was forging reset packets whenever a subscriber was seeding to peers who were on ISPs other than Comcast. This trick destroys much of the usefulness of bittorrent while arguably allowing the spokesman's statements to remain true in a narrow sense.
If someone asked whether Comcast is inspecting traffic and selectively sabotaging some of it, would the spokesman give a yes or no? Or maybe change the subject or answer a different question or spout euphemistic generalities? | |
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 |  |   PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03 | Re: Walking Contradiction So in other words, their dodging the question and feeding us bullshit. Gotcha. | |
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  prestonlewis Premium,MVM join:2003-04-13 Sacramento, CA
·VoiceStick
| Covad Covad claims to me on the phone that they have no restrictions or throttling and I'm dropping Comcast to give them a try on a T1 connection. It's more expensive but it's only for a year and I'll see whether Comcast's promised high speeds but their delivered low speeds is the same with another company. | |
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 |  HenryDavid
join:2007-08-08 Kingston, PA | Comcast is a failure, but I'm sure you have something to say in their defense as well, go find out for yourself. | |
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 |  |   CableTool Poorly Representing MYSELF. Premium join:2004-11-12 | Re: Covad
Yeah.. the number one internet provider whose numbers continually climb every quarter is a COMPLETE FAILURE. Two points to you! -- CableFAQ.org/Technicians Unplugged
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 |  HenryDavid
join:2007-08-08 Kingston, PA
1 edit | Are you a customer, Comcast has outages here weekly, daily at times, they've acquired other interests and the numbers you are seeing are a result of that.
"the number one internet provider whose numbers continually climb every quarter" don't mention their service to their customers or their business practices, that wouldn't matter to the customers. | |
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 marsgift
join:2000-12-06 Orange Park, FL | Yeah Right!!! and they don't have any bandwith caps either! | |
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  danza Premium join:2002-08-23
1 edit | We're not blocking access to any application.. 'We are just forging RST packets, spoofing IPs and launching denial of service attack onto other networks'
Yeah, I guess they didn't just block the application or 'throttle' any traffic... 
Seriously though, they should have their 'common carrier' statues and privilege taken away, or have a class-action lawsuit filed against them for what they are doing. | |
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 |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: We're not blocking access to any application.. said by danza :'We are just forging RST packets, spoofing IPs and launching denial of service attack onto other networks' Yeah, I guess they didn't just block the application or 'throttle' any traffic...  Seriously though, they should have their 'common carrier' statues and privilege taken away, or have a class-action lawsuit filed against them for what they are doing. What gets me is I went to load up steam just to get the bioshock demo and because it uses a bit torrent derivative I was waiting for almost 8 hours and didn't get nothing.
I had to bounce to spawnpoint.com to download the demo. It made me waste a gig of bandwidth. Guess these dumbasses don't understand that they are doing more damage then good. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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 |  |   Combat Chuck Too Many Cannibals Premium join:2001-11-29 Erie, PA
| Re: We're not blocking access to any application.. said by BosstonesOwn :What gets me is I went to load up steam just to get the bioshock demo and because it uses a bit torrent derivative I was waiting for almost 8 hours and didn't get nothing. Can this rumor please die Steam does not use bittorrent. They had hired Brahm Cohen at some point that is as close to bittorrent as it gets. -- Mooooooo!!! | |
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 |  |  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: We're not blocking access to any application.. either way since they starting messing with this steam doesn't work. Maybe because they are overloaded I don't know but I couldn't even grab a torrent with it. Had to go to http to grab it. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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 |  |  |  |   Combat Chuck Too Many Cannibals Premium join:2001-11-29 Erie, PA
1 edit | Re: We're not blocking access to any application.. said by BosstonesOwn :either way since they starting messing with this steam doesn't work. Steam is acting wonkey because everyone is trying to grab Bioshock and they aren't using BT; parts of their website are also slow and I can't currently log into steam at all.
The last thing this issue needs is more noise to confuse the issue. -- Mooooooo!!! | |
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 |   Dallius
@comcast.net | Cable companies don't have common carrier status to begin with, it would be hard to take it away. | |
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 loeakaodas
join:2005-01-31 Sarasota, FL | Illegal? Is the practice of deep packet inspection even legal with out a warrant and by a corporation. It sounds like it's an invasion of privacy to me, unless it's in the TOS and then it just outrageous. | |
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 |  Dan888
join:2007-08-21 Wilmington, DE | Re: Illegal? I was thinking it may be more illegal to modify outgoing data. They replace packets, then it says it came from your IP address. What if they were to begin altering other packets, then held you responsible for what was in those altered packets. | |
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 |   Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs: | Re: No TS on my network. They use the technolgy for uploading / seeding purposes NOT DOWNLOADING! so until you finish that LiveCD post pics of you Seeding @ Max | |
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 |  |   techwench I Work For Food Premium join:2003-06-26 Sherman, TX 1 edit | Re: No TS on my network. punker's upload is moving along nicely. The screenshot shows uploading @ 85K...which is roughly 680kbps. I'd say that's pretty good. 
(edit: typo) | |
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 |  |  |   Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs: | Re: No TS on my network. enjoy it! | |
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 |  |  |  |   Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs: | Re: No TS on my network. avg:= 111.6KB max = 120KB | |
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  phattieg
join:2001-04-29 Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Seeding torrents = operating a server... Tisk tisk tisk... You can't gripe too loudly. Seeding torrents is the same as operating a server. This COULD be against the TOS, but they are being NICE about it and keeping it down "in some areas". Again, just like the "invisible caps" are based on area and usage, the torrent situation will be too. It's a capacity game. If they don't have enough demand to increase capacity for an area, or the demand is not available via any local POP, then they will not build it either and waste money. If you don't understand what I just said, then message me, and maybe I will clairify... -- SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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 |  See 12 replies to this post |
|
 Eric Martin
join:2005-06-19 66308 | Cable co's Anyone think they don't like video downloads because it cuts into TV viewership of pay channels?????????? | |
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 |   phattieg
join:2001-04-29 Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Cable co's said by Eric Martin :Anyone think they don't like video downloads because it cuts into TV viewership of pay channels?????????? Nah, it just takes up "juice" to download several videos all at once. You see, torrent "seeds" are feeding more than just one person. At times, you will have 100 people downloading a video, such as a movie or TV show. This degrades the other users experience if there is already limited capacity in the area. For example, not many providers are in Brunswick Georgia, and as a result, there is not much of a link available to the area to connect them to the world. Since Brunswick Georgia is a small area, with not many people living there, or around there, Comcast isn't going to devote millions of dollars to expand the available backbone for that area. It would be a waste of money. As a result, you want to play a game, like World of Warcraft, but you keep getting ping spikes because that inconsiderate neighbor, who is uploading "COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL" and violating the terms of service and acceptable use policy. Comcast has the right idea, because point blank it's not fair for customers who aren't breaking the law. I don't think Comcast SHOULD cater to people using the internet to illegally. This includes blocking port 25 when large volumes of e-mail are coming from your machine. Blocking ports that are known to be used for spreading worms. Kicking people offline for hacking their modems and uncapping them. All these things degrade the network, and hurt honest paying customer.
So the answer is NO, they don't give a damn if you download "The OC" or "American Idol". They DO care if you are hurting their network by sharing your copy of it to a degree that it degrades performance. Get a slow ass DSL connection and use that if you want to share copyrighted materials, which is illegal... -- SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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 |  |  Eric Martin
join:2005-06-19 66308 | Re: Cable co's The cable co's and tv networks are working together secretly to kill torrents.
think about it. | |
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  snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL clubs:
| Wordin "We're not blocking access to any application, and we don't throttle any traffic," says Charlie Douglas, a Comcast spokesman.
I dunno... maybe cause im not good with words but that seems pretty straight forward to me. Very deffinitive.
"[Comcast] has a responsibility to manage our network to ensure our customers have the best service, and we use available technologies to do so." Although that sounds a bit vague... seems like something ANY isp would say. -- Serenity Day - June 23rd 2006. You Can't Stop the Signal | |
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  Descent Wrap It Up Premium join:2000-11-10 WDC Suburb | Wow I'm just surprised that comcast responded at all... meaning they are reading this and they know that we aren't buying their bs. | |
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 Desdinova
join:2003-01-26 Gaithersburg, MD
| A Question For Someone Smarter Than Me... Okay, I'm confused and this is probably just because of my own ignorance. Many folks say that the Sandvine usage is a good thing because it restores a fair balance to the traffic on the node. Other users say it unfairly hampers their use of the bandwidth they've paid for.
So, here's what I don't get: let's say I pay for a connection that provides up to 5 megs down and 2 megs up. Is it possible for me to exceed those speeds? If so, then I can understand why other users would complain, but I feel that Comcast (or whomever is providing the service) should do no more than ensure I don't break the speed limit and anything UNDER my paid-for speeds should be left alone. If I'm NOT exceeding the speeds I paid for then how am I at fault for the traffic gridlock? It seems to me that Comcast is at fault for selling what they can't provide and the folks who are being inconvenienced should be pushing for a network upgrade and not blaming me.
Or am I completely misunderstanding the problem here? | |
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 |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| Re: A Question For Someone Smarter Than Me... said by Desdinova :Or am I completely misunderstanding the problem here? The main issue, at least for me, is the fact that the Sandvine system is spoofing packets. If you do that, that's your ass. If the provider does, however, it is perfectly fine.
Packet spoofing is a no-no... -- Prove it... Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
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 |  |  Desdinova
join:2003-01-26 Gaithersburg, MD | Re: A Question For Someone Smarter Than Me... Ah, yes, I forgot to mention the packet spoofing. I agree with you completely on that issue! | |
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 |  |  Desdinova
join:2003-01-26 Gaithersburg, MD | Re: A Question For Someone Smarter Than Me... Okay, so I DO understand the problem. The provider isn't actually providing what they sold and somehow the user becomes the pariah. Thanks for confirming things for me! | |
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 Endgame Your member at work Premium join:2005-07-07 USA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Comcast sure knows how to keep me in the Slowsky family Good another reason for me to stay far away from Comcrap and stick with slow ass dsl. They might have higher speeds than dsl but they want to cripple your connection so you can't use it to its full potential. BitTorrent is an important part of the internet and if you take that ability away from it then you are going to lose some customers and potential customers. -- Give me a 100% uncapped, unblocked and unthrottled 100 meg symmetrical interweb connection to my apartment for real cheap and I'll go away!  | |
|
 madrhino
join:2004-07-03 | I Surrender I guess I'm going to have to change my signature.Move over Mr.Seidenberg,I'm getting in bed with you and Satan. -- Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
|
 TripmasterG
join:2004-01-01 Centreville, VA | Phew Another reason I'm glad we have Cox in my area instead of Comcast just a few miles north. | |
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  logic1977 Premium join:2001-02-11 Tucker, GA
| Like it or not.............. All major ISPs are going to be using deep packet inspection technology. Whether its Sandvine or some other supplier, when you have a network as large as these ISP it is getting to the point where you must have this technology just to know what is going on in your network.
You will see this happen more and more, sometimes they will just collect data, other times it will be to allow the ISP to take protective measures for thier network. This is a huge privacy concern, but it is also a neccessary evil in order for the provider to be able to ensure good service.
On large networks like this 5% of your user base uses like 90% of your bandwidth. As long as thier is bandwidth to spare, this isn't a problem.
But when you are facing spending says 50 million in network upgrades, and 5 million on a andvine like solution, what would YOU do?
Worst case is you lose the service of one of your power users, who your are losing money on anyways because they use up much more resources than what thier monthly service fee covers, and you help ensure that the rest of your customer stay happy. | |
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 |   Sarah Premium,ExMod 2002-05 join:2001-01-09 Cambridge, MA clubs:
| Re: Like it or not.............. said by logic1977 :Worst case is you lose the service of one of your power users, who your are losing money on anyways because they use up much more resources than what thier monthly service fee covers, and you help ensure that the rest of your customer stay happy. Problem is, the power users are people like me. Friends, family and co-workers come to me for advice on things like computer hardware, electronics, and broadband. And I am responsible for making those decisions at the company I work for, too.
If Comcast kills my (legal) bittorrent seeding, they're losing me, plus the future business of my friends, family, co-workers, etc. because I will badmouth that company to the ends of the earth. When you piss off the geeks you lose a lot more business than just that handful of geeks. | |
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 |  |   MemphisPCGuy Senior Systems Engineer Premium join:2004-05-09 Memphis, TN | Re: Like it or not.............. Yeah... two handfuls will make a difference...  -- »www.memphispcguy.com | |
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 |  |  |   Sarah Premium,ExMod 2002-05 join:2001-01-09 Cambridge, MA clubs:
| Re: Like it or not.............. I have to assume you're not very familiar with modern marketing. They are always referring to "brand advocates" and "consumer evangelists" and stuff like that. When people are becoming more and more turned off of traditional print/TV/web advertising, word-of-mouth has become more and more important. Some people are major hubs in that word-of-mouth network - and you don't want to piss them off. | |
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 |  |  |  |   MemphisPCGuy Senior Systems Engineer Premium join:2004-05-09 Memphis, TN
·Comcast
| Re: Like it or not.............. But, they have what? 6 MILLION+ users? And in most markets they are the best or only game in town.
What would work better in this event is getting those 6 million users to all use P2P, then we would not be affected by this problem and the speeds would be Comcastic!  -- »www.memphispcguy.com | |
|
 |   WIMAX Man
@saix.net
| said by logic1977 :Worst case is you lose the service of one of your power users, who your are losing money on anyways because they use up much more resources than what thier monthly service fee covers, and you help ensure that the rest of your customer stay happy. Uh...what does the monthly service cover ? The agreement does not state a data usage cap. It only states the speed level that you might be able to attain and that the connection is available for your use 24 hours a day 7 days a week and any court will agree that means the connection can be used literally for the entire time. So, if the speed has already been capped at the agreed term what do you mean by using "much more resources than what their monthly service fee covers"? | |
|
 mrbueno
join:2002-08-03 US
1 edit | I didn't read my TOS before so it doesn't apply to me. Why do people feel like not reading things entitles them to some special treatment?
It's funny how people get upset at companies because they were somehow "tricked" into using a service with limits.
Read your contracts, TOS, etc.. and you will find that $25/month does not permit you to use every bit on an DS3. Sorry, data doesn't sell that way.
If you really want a service that allows you to run servers and max out your pipe, look into commercial services that allow this in the TOS. Don't get mad because your ISP is doing exactly what they said they would do in TOS by maintaining the network performance for the good of every user.
The real problem for businesses today is overcoming the lack of technical understanding of how this whole cheap bandwidth idea works. AT&T and others caused it with dumbed down advertising and lower than cost price points to grab market share.
Life is simple. Read the contract/TOS. Don't like it? Don't use it. I, for one, like any technology that intelligently helps keep my Internet service relatively fast and cheap. Where I need real bandwidth without limits I pay extra. Simple. | |
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 |  magusat999
join:2005-07-08 Oakland, CA
| Re: I didn't read my TOS before so it doesn't apply to me. I wonder - does a TOS apply when they don't send it to you until AFTER you signed up? Or when they send you a "summary" when you sign up - then a 9000 page "agreement" AFTER you've already signed up??? I don't even think that would hold up in court - they should tred lightly... | |
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 |  |   b1gdr3 I Blame Your Mother
join:2001-07-28 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: I didn't read my TOS before so it doesn't apply to me. said by magusat999 :I wonder - does a TOS apply when they don't send it to you until AFTER you signed up Yes.
It became effective when you used the service.
Move on. -- I wasn't born with enough middle fingers. | |
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