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story category Comcast Still Fighting FCC Throttling Sanction
Insists FCC didn't have authority to act
03:27PM Tuesday Oct 27 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · business · bandwidth · cable · networking · net-neutrality · caps · Comcast
A little more than a year ago, Comcast got their wrist slapped by the FCC for throttling upstream P2P traffic (and lying about it to the press and consumers), though the "sanction" contained no substantive punishment or fine. Still, Comcast has been battling the ruling ever since, arguing that the FCC's neutrality principles (pdf) don't give the FCC the authority to investigate the issue, much less sanction the company. In a final filing (pdf) provided to Broadband Reports by Comcast, the carrier argues that the FCC also violated "basic rules of fair notice:"
As shown in Comcast's opening brief, the Order is unlawful because it enforced mere policy - not any provision of federal law - against Comcast. In addition to this fatal flaw, the Commission's action was procedurally improper and violated bedrock principles of fair notice.
Of course the debate over whether the FCC has the authority to enforce neutrality principles is a major reason why the FCC is taking steps to expand those rules, so there's little doubt they have the authority to act when carriers engage in particularly heavy-handed neutrality violations. Comcast however still wants the original FCC ruling overturned. Final joint briefs are due in the case between Comcast and the FCC November 23, but Comcast tells us their final document should essentially mirror this one.

As you might expect, the FCC's own filing doesn't see things quite the same way. The agency argues that their "determinations were lawful and reasonable," and that the agency was well within its mandate. "Congress created the FCC for cases such as this one," the agency says.

Related:
  1. Comcast Sued For Traffic Shaping
  2. NY Attorney General Investigating Comcast
  3. Verizon Laughs Off DOCSIS 3.0
  4. Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
  5. Cable Cooking Up New Network Management System
  6. Comcast Fighting FCC Throttling Ruling
  7. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  8. Cox Scraps App-Specific Throttling Trials
Forums » Comcast Still Fighting FCC Throttling Sanction
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Post a:
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Comcast

Comcast - "We should be able to block any traffic we want because we own the internet, not to mention all the kickbacks we will get from the entertainment industry for blocking certain p2p apps"
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

they own the last mile of the network they created. so yes they do own what you view. You only lease that last mile of the network and pay for the network. They provide the internet as an addon.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage

Re: Comcast

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

they own the last mile of the network they created. so yes they do own what you view. You only lease that last mile of the network and pay for the network. They provide the internet as an addon.
Time to break up comcast. They are way too big.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

And the same should happen to: AT$T and VZ. But will never happen.

When Comcast is broken up ATT and VZ better be split right along with them. But when everyone's prices go up, you can thank the courts for that one as well.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

Uh...if I recall correctly history has shown the breakup of giant corporations who have natural monopolies or duopolies leads to greater innovation and lower prices.

So what are you talking about?
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

Look at ATT or VZ prices and their price hikes? i don't see that as lower prices. We also didn't see xDSL until Covad and others started to offer it.

Z80
1 point 77
Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika

1 edit
Yeah, because we know that less competition and market consolidation leads to lower prices.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com

Their customers pay Comcast to deliver their bytes. To intentionally do anything else--such as packet forgery (falsely in the name of "network management")--constitutes contractual fraud. Customers pay for "Internet access", not access to the "Comcast network".

"...internet as an addon." = too funny.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

It is an add-on. They own the network and lease that not the Internet.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28

Re: Comcast

Which part of "Internet Service Provider" is it that you fail to grasp? (apparently all of it)
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

They do not call them selves that. They provide it as a part of the network access.
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

Re: Comcast

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

They do not call them selves that. They provide it as a part of the network access.
And you get exactly what from Comcast's network? I don't even think you can load their homepage without loading external data.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
Comcast HSI => High-Speed Internet

(Bored now.)
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Nope. That's like saying the post office owns your mail because they deliver it to you. Silliness.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

they do. once it enters their system it is there's until the addressee OPENS it.

EGeezer
Summertime -
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
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Re: Comcast

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

they do. once it enters their system it is there's until the addressee OPENS it.
But it doesn't give the post office the right to take stuff out of the envelope, put stuff in it or toss it in a bin to delay it for a few days because they felt the sender was sending too many letters..
--
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Michael C

join:2009-06-26
Cedar Park, TX

I pay for Internet SERVICE. I don't own/lease the wire. I don't own/lease the network, and frankly I don't care what they do with their hardware or network as long as it doesn't interfere with my Internet SERVICE. The point your missing is who gets to define what the "Internet" is? Because if ISP get to block, throttle, or otherwise alter my connection on any level OTHER than a total slowdown or shutoff of my connection, then I'm not getting the same "Internet" as everyone else. When I order Internet Service from an ISP, I have the assumption that I'm getting the same Internet as everyone else at whatever speed and conditions I agree to with my ISP.

What the FCC is doing is actually helping to uphold the definition of the "Internet" so that when you purchase "Internet" service from an ISP, you know what you're getting.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

YOU PAY FOR ACCESS TO THEIR NETWORK. THE SAME AS WHEN YOU PAY FOR CABLE TV. YOU PAY FOR THE CHANNELS THEY OFFER YOU AND NOTHING MORE.

Z80
1 point 77
Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
That they created...

...and is regulated on multiple levels including antitrust laws that prevent Comcast from using their market position to hamper video competitors.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
fuck off comcast and all the other ISP who think they can cap you or block content or slow content.
one of these days your company will go down and no one will care.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

And you'll do what? complain to ATT? VZ? TWC?

Nobody will care about you. the Internet will be capped and you'll like it or do without.
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Re: Comcast

Really "hitboiinnc" ?
"the Internet will be capped and you'll like it or do without."

I guess someone owns stock in Comcast, huh?
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Comcast

Nope. But the FCC doesn't have any control over the Internet and the Courts will see it that way.
PittsPgh

join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA

said by Pv8man See Profile :

Really "hitboiinnc" ?
"the Internet will be capped and you'll like it or do without."

I guess someone owns stock in Comcast, huh?
Well he better sell it all off now, before Comcast goes to the "Walled Garden" he keeps talking about in another thread here.

Paul

Mike_

join:2003-06-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Its history now.

Whats done is done.. Comcast : you were in the wrong regardless of "fair notice". Get over it.
--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless you know what you're doing.
navalpatel

join:2003-07-28
Lubbock, TX

Re: Its history now.

Perhaps we should go ahead and toss out due process all together?

Comcast does have a valid argument on this one.
thevorpal

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA

Very odd behavior

It seems odd to me that they would continue to fight this. The sanction had no teeth, they could be on their way.

Of course, I do get that they are trying to fight precedent, but claiming that the FCC's doesn't have that authority is probably a risky thing to do when the FCC is in the process of defining what sort of authority it means to exert.

I can just see the FCC stating, "OH yeah, we forgot about that, thanks for reminding us we will make sure that one gets in".

(Personally I'd like to see them establish common carrier requirements and be done with it)

rit56

join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

Re: Very odd behavior

They're trying to set a precedent. They know if the FCC lets them get a pass on this after the ruling against them then they will be able to do what they please and thumb their noses. They will never adhere to anything. Your move FCC and you better make it good.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Very odd behavior

And the FCC and try and do all they want. Comcast will keep going to court over it. The FCC doesn't really have any control over the Internet, and Comcast knows this.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Very odd behavior

Sure they do. They made that clear already which got Comcast to stop to begin with.

They also make that clear when they layout the "principles" of broadband and net neutrality. They may not have teeth right now, but they certainly do dictate those things.

I agree with you one of your above statements though, at least partially as I would say they need to force all current providers to decide right here and right now: Are you a dumbpipe or a content provider? Pick one, because you can't be both.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: Very odd behavior

They will pick both.

The FCC does not have any control over the Internet DUE to it NOT being regulated. As soon as the FCC steps in and decides they have control the Internet will be taxed. That's something that has been blocked for many many years now.

The courts will tell the FCC they don't have control over it as well. Just like the FCC tried to tell cable companies they have a cap but if you deployed IPTV you didn't have a cap because the Telco's argued it's not "cable tv". The courts see it as "cable tv".

The thing comes down to it though, the network is owned and operated by the cable or telco or the ISP. They are NOT the Internet and only provide access to it. They can easily go back to the Walled Garden and become AOL all over again if the Net Neutrality BS passes and becomes law. But the fact is it has to become law first. And the FCC DOES NOT create laws. They only create Rules which the court's do not like.

Everyone that may be in favor of Net Netural is gonna have a nice surprise if it happens. Walled Gardens will come back and AOL will be the ISP everyone gets stuck with.

See 9 replies to this post

NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
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Murfreesboro, TN
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1 edit

Fair Notice

Comcast and "basic rules of fair notice" complaint against the FCC.





Mr. Pot, please allow me to introduce you to Ms. Kettle.

--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-- Thomas Jefferson
zalternate

join:2007-02-22
BC
·TELUS

Throttling?

What throttling?

This case had to do with 'Hacking' the users connections to send false packets to stop the file transfers.

Shouldn't this have been a 3 year country club jail sentence for the Comcast boss's responsible for the hacking?
--
Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion.

See 15 replies to this post
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

It is good that Comcast is challenging the FCC.

Regulatory agencies often overreach, as the FCC did in the Janet Jackson kerfluffle. Kevin Martin wanted to take a swipe at the cable companies so as to get in good with the Bells (for whom he now works as a very highly paid attorney), so he prodded the FCC to exceed its legal authority and deliver a firm slap to Comcast. Alas, because his ruling would set a terrible precedent and allow the camel's nose of regulation into the Internet tent, it had to be challenged. Bully for Comcast! The court will define the limits of the FCC's jurisdiction, and we'll all be the better for it.

See 10 replies to this post
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..

the landlord tenant act of canada

when i rent a room its legally MINE to do as i want. in effect it isn't comcasts its mine as i'm rent my piece of that mile

imagine if you apply all this non sense to driving cars and living in your house

YOU cant watch tv nor do anyhting you want when you are awake
and only can occupy 5% of your room for 14 hrs of the day ( BCE bell Canada style)

car wise when you want to drive to and from work your only allowed to go 5 miles an hour and you cant have passengers that aren't approved by the manufacturer , you cant drive after dark or have music or anything not approved nor modify said car.

YEA go over real well in the real world and that effect would destroy whats left of actual capitalism and as such these types a actions are NOT CAPITALISM. THEY HINDER IT.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: the landlord tenant act of canada

that doesn't apply to the Network that CC provides.
kustomjs

join:2006-12-12
Coldwater, OH

cable wount last much longer anyways.

I would say cable wount last much longer anyways because all these telco's are starting to ramp up IPTV on there networks. Plus comcast is greedy anyways they want you pay big $$$ for there crappy services.

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:

Re: cable wount last much longer anyways.

said by kustomjs See Profile :

I would say cable wount last much longer anyways because all these telco's are starting to ramp up IPTV on there networks. Plus comcast is greedy anyways they want you pay big $$$ for there crappy services.
And the telco's are giving it away for free?

Cool.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: cable wount last much longer anyways.

and they're going to run it to the farms 20+ miles from the CO.
crese24

join:2007-12-27

Throttling is very bad.

I think the internet can and will run just fine without comcast throttling it. Throttling is very bad.
Forums » Comcast Still Fighting FCC Throttling Sanction


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