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story category Comcast Targets Frontier/Verizon Customers
DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades versus last-gen DSL?
05:05PM Thursday Jun 11 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: competition · business · cable · Comcast · Verizon Online DSL · FrontierNet Internet Access
If it's anything like their rocky deal with Fairpoint, Verizon's recent decision to sell a massive chunk of their less profitable DSL and landline networks to Frontier Communications is going to be very good for Verizon. The deals allow Verizon to ignore areas they don't want to upgrade, offload a huge chunk of debt, while providing significant tax breaks. But the deals may also be good for cable companies, since the smaller carriers gobbling up these networks are usually in no position to seriously invest in next-generation upgrades.

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With the deal 8-12 months away, Comcast is already courting impacted customers in Verizon territory, according to Telecompetitor. A letter being sent to customers in sale markets infers it's a good time to switch, and Comcast may not be wrong. Comcast has promised DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades across their entire footprint by the end of 2010 -- while Frontier has no immediate plans for next-gen upgrades -- and in some markets has struggled to provide even 6Mbps DSL service.

Given the problems Fairpoint is having integrating Verizon networks in Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, the Frontier customers impacted in this latest deal are probably already very nervous. The deal immediately infuses Frontier, which has 2.3 million customers, with 4.8 million new residential and small-business phone lines and 1 million broadband connections. That kind of sudden growth means support issues, something that in the case of Fairpoint, Time Warner Cable took easy advantage of with ads highlighting Fairpoint's dysfunction.

Related:
  1. Cable: Verizon Being Sleazy In VoIP Battle
  2. Telecom Giants Try To Fix Dismal Customer Service
  3. Verizon: Cut Your Landline To Save Money
  4. Comcast Considering 4G Voice
  5. Comcast 'Honors' FCC Authority On Neutrality
  6. Comcast DOCSIS 3.0 Hits Denver
  7. Verizon Won't 'Slavishly Satisfy' You With 100 Mbps FiOS
  8. Comcast Internet Video Launching Before Year End
Forums » Comcast Targets Frontier/Verizon Customers
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Post a:

baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Isnt it?

This is the industry standard.... to create negative perception of competition

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:

Re: Isnt it?

It's like that everywhere...

People would rather say that guy sucks than I'm good

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

Re: Isnt it?

well this also should enlighten some of the potential legislatures and pucs that will approve or deny the deal with frontier. Comcast is just informing the uninformed.....the folks here at BBR already knew this.
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!
Mannus
Premium
join:2005-10-25
Fort Wayne, IN

Good luck w/ that.

Until Comcast removes their 250Gb cap, it is a non-issue at least for me.

djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·T-Mobile US
·A + Net
·Mediacom
·RCN CABLE

Re: Good luck w/ that.

said by Mannus See Profile :

Until Comcast removes their 250Gb cap, it is a non-issue at least for me.
Comcast's 250 gig vs. frontiers 5gb. (at least in Illinois). Comcast wins!

»www.frontier.com/5GB/
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
Well if Frontier is anything like Embarq, I'll take 30M/2M with a 100GB cap over 5M/less than 1M with no caps any day.

Not saying that I like the 100GB cap but I can live with it.
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
·DIRECTV
·Verizon Online DSL

If I were a Verizon FiOS customer in Oregon, Washington, or Ft. Wayne, IN. (all areas going from Verizon to Frontier within 1 year) , I would stay with FiOS. Would be a major step down, to go Comcast.

You to-be-abandoned-next year Verizon FiOS people will be in the media/PR spotlight during this Verizon-Frontier transition. Especially, the Washington State FiOS customers. (In Microsoft's backyard, right?) So, please be squeaky wheels during this!

djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·T-Mobile US
·A + Net
·Mediacom
·RCN CABLE

Re: Good luck w/ that.

said by Bob61571 See Profile :

If I were a Verizon FiOS customer in Oregon, Washington, or Ft. Wayne, IN. (all areas going from Verizon to Frontier within 1 year) , I would stay with FiOS. Would be a major step down, to go Comcast.

You to-be-abandoned-next year Verizon FiOS people will be in the media/PR spotlight during this Verizon-Frontier transition. Especially, the Washington State FiOS customers. (In Microsoft's backyard, right?) So, please be squeaky wheels during this!
Then i hope frontier gets rid of their 5gb cap they currently have on their hsi product! 5gb with fios is horrible!
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Re: Good luck w/ that.

agreed, I predict that Frontier will modify that cap upward, especially for these FiOS customers.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Re: Good luck w/ that.

said by Bob61571 See Profile :

agreed, I predict that Frontier will modify that cap upward, especially for these FiOS customers.
Good lord, I can do 5GB in a day without trying -- and I have no IDEA what my husband is up to on his computer!

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

But VZ also sold areas they upgraded to FIOS...

... like Washington and Oregon. I don't understand why.

BTW, my friends back in Oregon did get that letter from Comcast reminding them that Comcast stands ready to be their telecom provider. Given that Fairpoint was becoming the alternative, I really couldn't fault Comcast for pointing themselves out.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS


1 edit

Re: But VZ also sold areas they upgraded to FIOS...

Perhaps these areas that had FiOS were not completely upgraded? If resources were necessary to support two plants, and the cost to fully upgrade was too high when compared to the expected returns, I can see why Verizon "flipped" and sold these regions.

Comcast suxs

@iso.com

Re: But VZ also sold areas they upgraded to FIOS...

Just like Comcast, they are a bunch of scavengers picking on the bones of a carcass, in this case the area Verizon so.
rifleman69

join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS

said by funchords See Profile :

... like Washington and Oregon. I don't understand why.

BTW, my friends back in Oregon did get that letter from Comcast reminding them that Comcast stands ready to be their telecom provider. Given that Fairpoint was becoming the alternative, I really couldn't fault Comcast for pointing themselves out.
Not Fairpoint, Frontier...two completely separate companies.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Re: But VZ also sold areas they upgraded to FIOS...

said by rifleman69 See Profile :

Not Fairpoint, Frontier...two completely separate companies.
Thanks, I keep doing that!
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by funchords See Profile :

... like Washington and Oregon. I don't understand why.

BTW, my friends back in Oregon did get that letter from Comcast reminding them that Comcast stands ready to be their telecom provider. Given that Fairpoint was becoming the alternative, I really couldn't fault Comcast for pointing themselves out.
The areas themselves were profitable, except Verizon can only spin off states, not parts of a state. Verizon wasn't initially planning to spin those states off, it just thought of making a very bad profit state into a bad profit state, there was no way it would become a good profit state, so it had to go.
JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
West Chester, PA
·Verizon FIOS

said by funchords See Profile :

... like Washington and Oregon. I don't understand why.
Because the return on investment didn't live up to expectations in those areas. For example, in the combined footprint of WA, OR, and IN, Verizon has a grand total of just 69,000 TV customers. That's a tiny number for such a large area.
glinc

join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

Verizon!

that's why verizon should only invest in 1Gbps symmetrical connection in NYC!!!! this is where the money is Big Red!!!!

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage

Re: Verizon!

said by glinc See Profile :

that's why verizon should only invest in 1Gbps symmetrical connection in NYC!!!! this is where the money is Big Red!!!!
You can get 1Gbps symmetrical in NYC if you are willing to pay for it.

Why don't you not be greedy and let the rest of the country get something for a change.
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
·DIRECTV
·Verizon Online DSL

In Comcast and Verizon territory

I am in Comcast and Verizon hardwire phone/DSL territory.
I have NOT received such a letter from Comcast, but will watch for it and report back. Comcast not good here with marketing or PR, so I don't expect the letter til Xmas.

Comcast took over Central/Northern Illinois and Central/Northern Indiana from Insight back in January 2008. This was the former 50/50 Comcast/Insight partnership. Typical comment from many consumers is that they wish Insight was still here.

Comcast still struggling here with their service issues, billing issues, dumping of analog channels(without the DTAs other parts of US have transitioned to), low # of HD offerings, old DVRs, and compression issues. Not to mention the bad PR they have received from Rockford to Peoria to Bloomington-Normal to Springfield to Champaign-Urbana. Oh yes, AT&T U-Verse starting to rollout in the Springfield-Decatur-CU-Danville areas this summer. Comcast has their hands full here.

Voyager2K2

join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: In Comcast and Verizon territory

said by Bob61571 See Profile :

I am in Comcast and Verizon hardwire phone/DSL territory.
I have NOT received such a letter from Comcast, but will watch for it and report back. Comcast not good here with marketing or PR, so I don't expect the letter til Xmas.
I am in FIOS/Comcast territory.
I receive a post card or letter from Comcast almost daily, sometimes 2 in one day.
I am not kidding!
Consider yourself lucky.
eggman9713

join:2003-03-05
Richland, WA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
·Teliax VOIP

No FIOS, darnit.

Well, there goes my area's chance of getting upgraded to FIOS anytime soon. Verizon actually sold off what they consider a "rural" area in southeastern WA, which could be considered a small metro area with over 150,000 people! I guess they had too much competition with Charter (hey, they are bankrupt, but at least they have decent service here!)

xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

wat?

you do understand that vz doesnt give a tinkers damn about those customers? quite obviously if they did, they would still be trying to serve them. inefficiently, but still at least trying. why they wouldnt just sell the whole damn thing to comcast is anyones guess. they basically did that any ways. the end result is a shit ton of new customers for comcast. makes perfect sense to go after them. i would.

bobobobo

@rr.com

Re: wat?

Yeah but then Comcast would have to invest the money into maintaining and upgrading the rural phone lines, which is why Verizon offloaded it in the first place. Comcast doesn't want to get stuck with that sort of "slow growth" either. They want the big bucks you can get from fiber. The only companies that will touch the rural areas are usually rural DSL companies like Fairpoint and Frontier and Centurytel, because they are already invested in the slow growth market and don't have any stake in cable or fiber (though they do have some FTTP).

That's just my take on it, anyway.

darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR

Letter from Comcast to Washington County, OR FiOS Customer

Here's the letter: »Re: Verizon Sells Huge Chunk Of Network To Frontier

yolarry

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV

stop talking and Lets get the race started

Whoever rolls out first in my area and provide me something better then hughesnet. Sign me up!

I rather have the 250GB then 2GB a night, 375MB during the day.
bicker

join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA


2 edits

The importance of being a valuable customer

The deals allow Verizon to ignore areas they don't want to upgrade, offload a huge chunk of debt, while providing significant tax breaks.
In this environment, consumers are well-advised to keep in mind what it takes to run a successful business, and sometimes situations like this really help clear away the cobwebs spun by misconceptions of entitlement. Here we see the successful business (Verizon) in action, identifying a market where the best they could hope for is marginal profit above cost -- where provision of service is either too costly or consumers to miserly to foster the kind of returns that investors expect. The strategic decision? Stop operating in the states where the marginal markets are.

It is very unfortunate for the consumers who are consequently left with fewer and lesser options. However, this is one of the choices people are implicitly making when the choose to situate themselves in a specific location, stay there, and/or ascribe themselves into a specific market segment.

This is not something that consumers do consciously, of course, but it is critical for consumers to realize that product and service providers are not responsible for the fact that any specific consumers have placed or left themselves in a situation where they are not especially profitable to market to. The consumers are responsible for the ramifications of their own decisions, even implicit ones.

What can consumers do (short of moving)? There are only two choices: More socialism (either in terms of actual political changes, or higher taxes, with the additional tax revenues used to provide specific and recurrent incentives to suppliers to overlook the marginal aspect of the market segment), or increasing the value to suppliers from supplying that area or market segment (i.e., driving those who live in the communities they live in to a general willingness to pay substantially higher premiums for products and services). Many consumers will bristle at the idea that they need to make themselves more valuable to product and service providers, but those who deny or ignore the realities of the marketplace are condemning themselves to continual bitterness and disappointment.
Forums » Comcast Targets Frontier/Verizon Customers


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