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Companies Distance Themselves From Huawei The Bogeyman
As Press Helps Protectionists Play Up Threat
by Karl Bode 08:35AM Thursday Oct 11 2012
Companies and governments are rushing to distance themselves from Chinese hardware vendors Huawei and ZTE after a House Intelligence Committee report accused the companies of being Chinese spies, despite no evidence after an 11 month investigation. It's widely believed this is simply protectionism with a coat of fear mongering, and the media is helping the U.S. government assault -- with the wires slathered with reports of ZTE and Huawei wrong doing despite no hard evidence found -- by anybody.

News reports quickly rushed to suggest Huawei was so untrustworthy Canada was planning on banning them from bidding on construction of a national network, despite the fact the company says they never planned to bid on it in the first place:
quote:
"Much of the project involves areas of business that we are not in, or that we are not currently pursuing here in Canada," (Huawei) said. "For this reason alone, we do not believe it is likely - nor do we believe it was ever reasonable for anyone to assume or suggest - that Huawei would be considered as one of the primary vendors for this project."
Meanwhile companies like Leap and Clearwire are distancing themselves from using Huawei gear. All of this remains hysterical in that, with nearly all telecom gear now made in China, the threat exists that surveillance hardware could be hitching a ride on essentially any hardware, yet ZTE and Huawei are singled out as bogeymen just as the ponder expansion into the U.S. network gear and smartphone market. Where's much of the hysteria originating? Cisco and other competitors.

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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:5

hmm

Accusing a company of something like this with no evidence on our part really makes us look stupid and paranoid..

guess they must have a reason, i dunno. I dont use any huawei devices, so i`m not biased.

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)
Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17

2 recommendations

Shrug

I couldn't care less about this issue. China's flagrant disregard of IP is partly to blame for this and they've shown zero inclination of changing that. How is it that whenever a foreign company sets up shop in China that some domestic company soon appears with designs and products eerily similar? You can look at almost anything; European bullet trains, Russian fighter jets, American electronics. You name it and all of a sudden there's a "Chinese-developed" product that appears right after. People advocating for Huawei and ZTE need to ask where in the world they "developed" all of the cheap network and telecom gear that they're peddling. Answer: Cisco HQ.

Allowing them to build and install the infrastructure that will be carrying highly sensitive government secrets and blueprints for who-knows-what would be absolutely foolish.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: Shrug

said by Killersaurus:

I couldn't care less about this issue. China's flagrant disregard of IP is partly to blame for this and they've shown zero inclination of changing that. How is it that whenever a foreign company sets up shop in China that some domestic company soon appears with designs and products eerily similar? You can look at almost anything; European bullet trains, Russian fighter jets, American electronics. You name it and all of a sudden there's a "Chinese-developed" product that appears right after. People advocating for Huawei and ZTE need to ask where in the world they "developed" all of the cheap network and telecom gear that they're peddling. Answer: Cisco HQ.

Allowing them to build and install the infrastructure that will be carrying highly sensitive government secrets and blueprints for who-knows-what would be absolutely foolish.

+1
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michieru
Premium
join:2009-07-25
Miami, FL
You don't need to build and install a infrastructure in order to spy it. That just seems like too much effort when other means produce the same results.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

said by Killersaurus:

How is it that whenever a foreign company sets up shop in China that some domestic company soon appears with designs and products eerily similar?

Yeah, because that never happens anywhere else in the world with any other device.

Go to Lowes Depot and almost every stove, fridge, washer, dryer looks (and for the most part, operates) like the one next to it. Go to Best Buy and look at all the TVs. They all look almost the same. It doesn't even have to be big and high tech. Go anywhere that sells lightbulbs...they all look the same. It's eerie that a device would have competing products that looked so similar!

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
said by Killersaurus:

Allowing them to build and install the infrastructure that will be carrying highly sensitive government secrets and blueprints for who-knows-what would be absolutely foolish.

The government would never allow them to build infrastructure for classified info (SIPRNet or JWICS, for instance). When the government needs gear for those applications they use American contractors who are closely vetted. Indeed, the NSA has its own semiconductor manufacturing fab at Ft. Meade for this reason.

The fear of hardware trojans is not new -- NSA has been putting trojans in hardware for at least four decades, thus they would never be stupid enough to let the Chinese give them equipment for networks that would carry secret government info.

This is more about the government trying to protect the corporate sector from economic espionage and IP theft and to stop the Chinese from wreaking havoc on non-classified networks (i.e. the Internet at large). There may be some merit to their claims that this is a real threat. From what I have read, the real evidence is in the classified reports, which obviously the media doesn't have access to. And hackers at DEFCON looked at the firmware of Huweai routers and said they were very crappy, full of bugs that were easily exploitable.

But, as others have said, most consumer electronics are manufactured in China, thus I see no reason to pick on Huweai and ZTE and not mention other companies.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1
Why it is about IP NOW and it never was before? The Chinese have been copying designs for decades and yet we gave them our manufacturing anyway.

I don't know about you but if I see a Chinese knockoff as an option, I am all too happy to buy it. If an American company wants to send their labor to China, I have no qualms about using 'their product' while they get nothing. Luckily this stuff is easily available on the web and often has free shipping to the US. Payback is a bitch.
Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17

1 recommendation

Re: Shrug

It's the frog in the boiling pot of water. It all happened so slowly that no one realized there was a top-down coordinated effort from the Chinese to steal as much as they could in any way that they could and claim it as their own.

Foreign companies let their own greed blind them to the fact that the Chinese take the idea of synergy to an entirely different level than what they know. They were limiting their think to their own corporate structure, but the Chinese look at eveything on the national level. The idiots that thought they'd be saving money using cheap Chinese labor are now finding themselves muscled out of not only the Chinese market, but their own domestic market with the entire communist apparatus working against them.

At least people have woken up to this, though serious damage has already been done.
TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA

1 recommendation

Karma is a

While I don't condone tit for tat, the Chinese government has, over the last decade, screwed over many American telecomm companies over bids on projects related to infrastructure in China. Payback sucks, but it is well deserved in this case.
Seeky

join:2001-06-10
Chicago, IL

Re: Karma is a

I thought only communism countries screw over business. So United State is now a communism country like China? ic..
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Uh-Oh

I can think of a wireless Internet Provider that had Huawei design and build their 4G network. Wonder what they are thinking now....

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Deflection

I wonder if the committee started blaming Huawei and ZTE to deflect what was going on with Cisco and others. After all, why would they suddenly say Chinese-made gear is bad when we've been using it for over a decade.

After all, it's best to accuse the "bad guy" while doing the exact same thing so no one suspects you of any wrongdoing and makes you look good even if there is no evidence whatsoever.

As for building U.S. gear in China.. It's quite possible.. But what if the design was already in place by Cisco (or others) and they decided to blame China in case they got caught.
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25

Has noone here noticed

that Huawei was 'founded' by a PRC Major, who refuses to give interviews and never allows his company to respond to requests for relevant information? If this company truly has nothing to hide, then they need to provide all details necessary in order to be allowed to build critical infrastructure in the US. However, they refuse to be open about their product.

As for the Goose/Gander issue, any backdoor access by our gov't into US networks is written into law (CALEA, for example). Plus, the US gov't isn't a part owner of any telecom/network here, while the same CANNOT be said of Huawei.

One other point. Lets say for the sake of argument that Huawei isn't in the PRCs pocket. If the Chinese gov't did want to use Huawei for gov't/corporate espionage, and the CEO or other head of the company balked, all they would have to do is initiate a 'corruption' invistigation, and that CEO would be canned immediately, and replaced with someone the Chinese gov't COULD control, unlike here in the US, where people like Jack Welch and Donald Trump are allowed to say and do whatever they want, without US Gov't or political repercussions.

There is also a pattern here with the PRC. Something about a wind farm in Oregon that a Chinese company wants to build, but it just 'happens' to be next to a military test area, and the Obama administration just put a halt to it.

Are we really going to open up our national interest and security at the behest of corporatists, all in the name of corporate greed?

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Has noone here noticed

said by viperlmw:

As for the Goose/Gander issue, any backdoor access by our gov't into US networks is written into law (CALEA, for example).

CALEA was passed so the FBI (a civilian LEA) could have access to digital telco networks for legal court approved wiretapping in individual cases. This is perfectly legal and I don't think most people have a problem with it.

Now, since you have obviously been living under a rock for the last 10 years, let me bring you up to speed.

What most people are concerned with is NSA's (a military agency and a wing of the DoD) illegal and unconstitutional wiretapping of *everyone*. No court order. No oversight. No Nothing.

NSA (just like CIA) is supposed to be for *foreign* intelligence only. However, after 9/11, Bush in all his infinite wisdom, decided that this should change and NSA should be given free reign to monitor all Americans in a big electronic dragnet without any sort of legal oversight. Lawsuits were brought and NSA simply dodged them by declaring "state secrets" which means a court never gets to even hear the case. At that point ACLU realized that suing the NSA was hopeless, so they started to bring the suits against the telcos who were involved. Bush then decides to make telcos immune to lawsuits by convincing Congress to pass a law granting them retroactive immunity.

So this means we are stuck with our new NSA overlords and there's nothing any of us can do short of throwing every single member of Congress who approved this out on their asses. Fat chance of that happening.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25

Re: Has noone here noticed

While I appreciate the back door insult, and agree about the NSA, you missed the point. Huawei is owned by the Chinese government, and it's entirely possible that they are doing mischief that only they know about. At least we have a clue about what the NSA is doing, and it is MUCH less likely to perform actions detrimental to the nations critical infrastructure.

Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
kudos:1

?

They should stop financing our debt and see if this decision would stay.
--
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2

Re: ?

China only owns around 7% of our debt. I doubt the situation would change much if China stopped buy up treasuries....which its actually slowed down on anyway.

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
said by Anonymous:

They should stop financing our debt and see if this decision would stay.

So you are saying we should stop them from buying bonds and treasuries? Why? Thats like owning a ice cream store and not selling ice cream

filizaragoza

join:2006-01-11
San Diego, CA

Who Owns more than 30% ot the debt?

The Chinese do, so they can surely say give me some secrets, or i'll take my money and go Home.

The State Department is good at doing this, ask London Government, the refuse to let a big Pharma company bid on a Contract if they didn't hand over a suspect of the 9/11

Eventually the $$$$ the Pharma would have lost was more important than one individual, even if the evidence was flaky.

That´s the problem the chines are doing some thing you have done for decades in South America, Africa, and Asia.

Know the US Government Paranoia is spying on US citizens because it can.

Remember Info is power even if you do not care who has the private details of your's life.

And some Agents of Law use this info to do Insider Trading or put there own company in the private sector, as they say be in the right place at the right moment.

And everybody else get screw in the process.
Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17

1 recommendation

Re: Who Owns more than 30% ot the debt?

said by filizaragoza:

The Chinese do, so they can surely say give me some secrets, or i'll take my money and go Home.

Wrong. It's 7%.

»bonds.about.com/od/bondinvesting···debt.htm

And they're not going to do anything about it. We're in a sick symbiotic relationship with them. If we go down, then they go down harder.
lestat99

join:2000-08-04
Piscataway, NJ

Re: Who Owns more than 30% ot the debt?

It is well documented that Hauwei has blatantly performed economic espionage against US and Canadian companies. This is evidence. Anyone who doesn't see China as a infosec threat to the US obviously doesn't work in the field.

In 2004 Cisco brought Hauwei to court for stealing source code. It is also documented that economic espionage in sales/contracts by Hauwei contributed to the downfall of Nortel.

Finally China does exactly the same thing to American companies. They can't sell into the Chinese government either. Seems fair to me.