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Congress May Require NebuAD Be Opt-In
Though Congress will have to opt-out of lobbyist pressure, first.....
Members of Congress who've been investigating behavioral advertising technology (like NebuAD's) may mandate the technology be opt in, notes Dow Jones. The House Energy and Commerce Telecommunications Subcommittee will examine the issue at a hearing Thursday, and Chairman Edward Markey appears poised to make opting in mandatory. Currently, the system uses a cookie based opt-out system that opts users out of tailored ads but not browsing history collection. As noted previously, you can expect the $11 billion online advertising industry to fight tooth and nail against such a requirement -- and probably win.
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

ender7074

Member

The real question is...

How much will the ISPs that choose to use this trash service gouge their customers that dont choose to "opt in"?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 recommendation

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: The real question is...

Privacy penalty recovery fee?

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: The real question is...

I suspect that this will work as effectively as the DoNotCall.gov list for me..

1. Existing customers will see a rate increase...unless they renew their ToS, which will include Opt-In
2. New customers will have Opt-In written as part of their ToS when they sign up for service.
3. Any 'new' feature or change in service will automatically require you to 'opt in'.

Last time I saw something similar to this opt/out was for cable in Canada through Cogeco back in 1999. You were 'given' bonus channels for free for 3 months. If you didn't call to opt out, you were automatically billed extra for the new channels after the 3 months were up. Government squashed it quickly.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

Privacy penalty recovery fee?
you have this totally wrong, it will be the Assured Privacy Protection Plan. 9.95 a month.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: The real question is...

$9.95 for each ad system I opt-out of, right? (DNS Redirection, clickstream data sale and behavioral advertising).

Meaning I pay more the more I want my data protected, right? Genius!

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium Member
join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

vaxvms to ender7074

Premium Member

to ender7074
New TOS? - You MUST opt-in

BK3
join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL

BK3

Member

Re: The real question is...

Tell ya what --- >

I'll Opt-IN if you'll split the NET proceeds with me 50/50.
(In cash)

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan to ender7074

Premium Member

to ender7074
It might be interesting how Obama changes things, with the democrats refusing anything from Lobbyists and special interests "To the extent we know of anyways", maybe something we want will get passed without corporations putting it into their favor.

tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA

tad2020

Member

Clickstream

What about the ISP's practice of selling our clickstreams? Isn't that just as bad as using DPI for behavioral tracking?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Clickstream

That's what I don't get either.

ISPs have been selling (and boldly denying they sell) clickstream data for years to websites like compete without any kind of opt out system of any kind.

tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA

tad2020

Member

Re: Clickstream

Maybe cause congress is not aware of this practice.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
let just hope The Pirate Bay will Encrypt the Entire Internet !

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords to tad2020

MVM

to tad2020
said by tad2020:

What about the ISP's practice of selling our clickstreams? Isn't that just as bad as using DPI for behavioral tracking?
From a privacy perspective, it's almost as bad. At least with clickstream you only get the URLs, but still.

From a network interference perspective, it's transparent, so it's not like NebuAd doing exploits in order to do cookie funny business.

Who particularly is selling these, to whom, and what do they do with them? Anyone have any hard leads?

karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Moscow, ID

karlmarx

Member

The difference is quite simple

Sure, google can track you. BUT ONLY ON THEIR SITE. Once you leave, they can't tell where you are going. The problem with these SCUM BOTTOM FEEDERS, is they think they have the right to monitor EVERY MOUSE CLICK you make. AND THAT, is a total invasion of privacy.

its the toolbar
@comscore.com

its the toolbar

Anon

Re: The difference is quite simple

google is tracking every mouseclick if you have their toolbar and PageRank is enabled...
jdjbuffalo
join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO

jdjbuffalo

Member

About Time!

IF the government requires this then they get a round of applause for looking out for the citizens.

This is the kind of thing that I expect, but rarely, see from the government.

Although, as it was stated above, I want to see them rope clickstream sales too with the Opt-in requirements.
bjbrock9
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK

bjbrock9

Member

Wiretapping laws still need to be addressed.

The original concern over breaking of current laws will jhave to be addressed even if no new laws are passed.

And since this will actually directly affect the privacy of even the law makers themselves, unlike alot of issues brought before them to date, ie. they will actually see the results as they use the Internet, I'm not so sure the ad people will win.

This will make Internet use bad for business as well. Businesses are not going to want their business inspected to this degree by third parties.

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

It doesn't get any better than this

quote:
Members of Congress who've been investigating behavioral advertising technology (like NebuAD's) may mandate the technology be opt in . . .
Now this is just about the most intelligent thoughts I've seen come from our congress-critters in a loooong time.

dualsmp
join:2001-08-25
Charlotte, NC

dualsmp

Member

What if Opt-out really isn't

Check this story on Nebuad below. Is Opt-out really opt-out? It looks like data is still collected regardless of whether you have opt-out/opt-in status. I still don't trust any of these ad/spyware companies as far as I could throw them.

And remember all it takes is for Nebuad to change their privacy policy whenever they want and boom -- anything goes (carte blanche).
quote:
»www.theregister.co.uk/20 ··· visited/

Back in April, the company told us that "Once a user opts out, the user's surfing habits are no longer being observed by NebuAd. Once a user opts out, NebuAd removes the history on the user and will ignore the user's subsequent surfing habits." We took this to mean that if web surfers set that opt-out cookie, they're no longer tracked by NebuAd's hardware. But that may not be the case.

Some have speculated that NebuAd servers outside the ISP - and not the deep packet inspection (DPI) servers on inside - deal with opt-outs. Even if you opt-opt, these voices say, the deep packet inspection continues.

Robb Topolski, chief technology consultant for Free Press and Public Knowledge, two net watchdogs taking a stand against the likes of Phorm and NebuAd, argues that NebuAd has probably given the opt-out duties to those external servers in order to keep loads light on the DPI boxes.

"I...personally understand that these DPI boxes that are within the ISPs - while fast and capable - are kept to a minimum of processing load," he tells us. "ISPs won't tolerate anything that might limit or slow down the network, so these boxes are given quick and easy things to do."

So we've asked NebuAd yet again: If users opt-out, does their browsing history still leave the ISP's network? Are they still tracked by NebuAd hardware? And we received another carefully worded response: "When the user opts out, NebuAd does not collect the data on that user, and we do not serve targeted ads to that user. The data flowing through the system is immediately and permanently flushed out."

Does that mean your data leaves your ISP even if you opt-out? Sure sounds like it. But the company wouldn't comment further. And that's the trouble with NebuAd. It won't put its cards on the table. At the very least, web surfers deserve to know what's what.

vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium Member
join:2005-03-01
Polar Park

vaxvms

Premium Member

Re: What if Opt-out really isn't

They say they're working on changing the opt-out tracking
»NebuAD Tries To Defuse Public Relations Nightmare
One primary concern was that NebuAD's current cookie-based opt-out system only opts users out of custom ad delivery, not browsing tracking. ISP insiders had told me that NebuAD was working on a new opt-out system -- something that has been confirmed this morning by a NebuAD press release, which says they're developing a "network based-opt out mechanism" that doesn't rely on cookies.

dualsmp
join:2001-08-25
Charlotte, NC

dualsmp

Member

Re: What if Opt-out really isn't

Check the first paragraph of the story though.
quote:
Though Phorm-like behavioral ad targeter NebuAd has vowed to replace its cookie-based opt-out mechanism with an opt-out that's less crumbly, it appears that neither opt-out would completely opt you out.
So neither the cookie based opt-out or network based opt-out really opts a user out.

Anyways all this is completely insane by putting our faith in spyware companies to begin with. Nobody wants this hardware DPI crap in their ISP hoovering up all their data. All these spyware companies have put forth so far is PR spin, manipulation, deception, dodgy information, and underhanded "lawyer speak" maneuvering. Pretty much par for the course.

FLengineer
CCNA, CEH, MCSA
Premium Member
join:2007-06-26
Deltona, FL

FLengineer

Premium Member

Robbing websites.

If I'm not mistaking NebuAD finds the current ad's on a website and replaces it with their own while on your ISP's network.

Isn't those ads on the website the sole reason why the website is free for you to view? What happens when websites go bankrupt because NebuAD is effectively stealing their ad space? What advertisers are going to pay to put an ad on a website knowing that most of the website visitors will NEVER see that ad because NebuAD is replacing it?

Please tell me I'm wrong and NebuAD isn't getting away with theft.

knows
@centurytel.com

knows

Anon

how it works - learn before you speak.

Take a little time to investigate how it actually works, and not how "you hear" it works. It's helping me by filtering crap not relevant, and it computer specific, not person specific.

Also, it's not replacing ads from a web page. NebuAd actually buy's ad space on pages and inserts ads in those spaces based on surfing habits.

So all you porn people will see porn ads, so don't let your girlfriend use your PC...lol

On another thought, if you think the internet is in anyway anonymous, then you are sadly mistaken.

If this wasn't an election year, this wouldn't be news. Markey just likes to see his name in the paper...