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story category Consumer Groups Want Charter, NebuAD Investigated
15 groups show support for bi-partisan probe into behavioral ads
01:49PM Friday Jun 06 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · business · privacy · content · consumers · Charter Pipeline
Last month, the ranking members of the House Telecommunications Subcommittee, Edward Markey (D-MA) and Joe Barton (R-TX), sent a letter to Charter CEO Neil Smit. That letter took issue with Charter's decision to sell user browsing history to NebuAD in order to deliver tailored ads (a "service" Charter claims is as good as delivering faster speeds). The letter asked Charter to put a hold on the project since it's not clear it's even legal.

The shoddy opt-out process used by NebuAD could run afoul of several laws, including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 (ECPA); the Communications Act of 1934; and the Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984. A group of fifteen consumer advocacy organizations today sent a letter (pdf) to Markey and Barton in support of their push to ensure ISPs are following the law.
We write to thank you for your May 16, 2008 letter to the CEO of Charter Communications and to urge you to hold hearings on the issue of Internet service providers (ISPs) and their business partners targeting ads to subscribers based on inspections of those subscribers’ Web activities. We were pleased that you raised questions regarding the legal status of this plan under existing privacy laws relating to cable systems.
We are concerned that such ISP wiretapping schemes may violate multiple privacy laws and policies.
An investigation will discover what we already know: NebuAD's cookie-based opt-out process doesn't work: it stops targeted ad delivery, but it doesn't actually opt you out of having your information gathered and sold. But it would be useful to see independent confirmation of NebuAD's claims that personal identifiers are "anonymized" (such claims are made quite often but frequently aren't true).

Should an investigation occur, you'll likely see privacy advocates push the government to mandate that these kind of services must be "opt in" instead of "opt out." But something tells me Uncle Sam doesn't have the un-lobbied chops to inform the $11 billion online advertising industry and broadband ISPs that their shiny new revenue stream is going to be leashed.

Related:
  1. Swiss Bank, CA Court Censor Whistleblower Website
  2. Utah Wants Wholesome Seal Of Approval For ISPs
  3. Swiss Bank Drops Wikileaks Lawsuit
  4. Trying To Digest ISP TOS Changes An Impossible Task
  5. Anti-Spyware Coalition Tackles Phorm, NebuAD
  6. Charter NebuAD Trials Delayed
  7. Charter User Monitoring Plans Suspended
  8. Charter Promotion Promises 65 Inch HDTV, Delivers 19 Inch
Forums » Consumer Groups Want Charter, NebuAD Investigated
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PhoenixDown
-- Ron Paul 2008 --
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:

FCC CPNI Rules?

The FCC recently strengthened their position on CPNI stating that customer information cannot be shared with third parties unless the customer specifically agrees. My take, and I am not a lawyer, is that sharing the info for marketing purposes with a company like nebuAD would be highly against the rules. And since this information is still shared despite the cookie opt out method, I think Charter would be in violation.
--
You have the right to protect your life, liberty, and property.

-- Ron Paul
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: FCC CPNI Rules?

said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

[...] sharing the info for marketing purposes with a company like nebuAD would be highly against the rules. And since this information is still shared despite the cookie opt out method, I think Charter would be in violation.
That never stopped the DMA from ignoring the law before. Case in point: the national do not call list. I still get sales calls despite having been registered on that site pretty much since the day it was launched.

anonny55

@lamrc.com

Re: FCC CPNI Rules?

The "do not call" list will only work if enough people complain about a specific violator.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

The FCC recently strengthened their position on CPNI stating that customer information cannot be shared with third parties unless the customer specifically agrees. My take, and I am not a lawyer, is that sharing the info for marketing purposes with a company like nebuAD would be highly against the rules. And since this information is still shared despite the cookie opt out method, I think Charter would be in violation.
Then all Charter has to do is put in the TOS, by getting Charter internet you are agreeing to data sharing, if you do not agree, do not order service.

Remember internet IS NOT regulated by the FCC. Nobody regulates it.
Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Erie, PA

Re: FCC CPNI Rules?

Not that they wouldn't do it, but forced consent is a bit of a contradiction in terms. I don't think it would hold up if challenged.

PhoenixDown
-- Ron Paul 2008 --
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:
I don't believe they can do that. It appears a separate consent authorization form is needed.
benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest

Does this apply to "Business" customers?

About this system:

I think it's no good, and yes it should be opt-in, with the default being no, instead of the other way around.

Now I'm wondering: Unlike most of their customers (probably), I get my HSI through their Business division.

I did that because some things are done differently. These things include:

- More liberal TOS.
- No port restrictions.
- No throttling.
- Static IP.

The downside? It's expensive for what you get.

I wonder, is my browsing history still sold to this company?

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

Re: Does this apply to "Business" customers?

said by benc See Profile :

About this system:

I think it's no good, and yes it should be opt-in, with the default being no, instead of the other way around.

Now I'm wondering: Unlike most of their customers (probably), I get my HSI through their Business division.

I did that because some things are done differently. These things include:

- More liberal TOS.
- No port restrictions.
- No throttling.
- Static IP.

The downside? It's expensive for what you get.

I wonder, is my browsing history still sold to this company?
If it is, see my signature. I've added a section for "user submitted" sites to help pollute the data they collect. If you can't fight them in court, fight them in the wallet and make all the data they collect useless and worthless.
--
Fight NebuAD and the like:
Click Here to pollute their data

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Does this apply to "Business" customers?

said by knightmb See Profile :

... I've added a section for "user submitted" sites to help pollute the data they collect. ...
I use TrackMeNot on FireFox. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if Mozilla were to implement such a system as a defaulted on "option" right in their browsers?

Such a move from the open source community, would end this nonsense in a heartbeat.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.
benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest

said by knightmb See Profile :

If it is, see my signature. I've added a section for "user submitted" sites to help pollute the data they collect. If you can't fight them in court, fight them in the wallet and make all the data they collect useless and worthless.
Hmm...very interesting idea.

It sounds good, though now I'm wondering about something: How much data transfer is consumed each month?

Personally, I don't care. But people on TWC soon might.

cork1958
Cork

join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Charter Pipeline

This is about the same thing.

»www.antiphorm.com/page_software.htm
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by benc See Profile :

I think it's no good, and yes it should be opt-in, with the default being no, instead of the other way around.
But theres no $ $ $ Money $ $ $ in opt-in.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Does this apply to "Business" customers?

said by dvd536 See Profile :

But theres no $ $ $ Money $ $ $ in opt-in.
So? I don't care. I send Charter more than enough. Shouldn't that be enough?

Wait, I'm on Charter Business. That's why my rates are high. But still, even on residential I suspect they still have a pretty good profit margin.

Cable_Guy

@charter.com

said by benc See Profile :

About this system:

I think it's no good, and yes it should be opt-in, with the default being no, instead of the other way around.

Now I'm wondering: Unlike most of their customers (probably), I get my HSI through their Business division.

I did that because some things are done differently. These things include:

- More liberal TOS.
- No port restrictions.
- No throttling.
- Static IP.

The downside? It's expensive for what you get.

I wonder, is my browsing history still sold to this company?
This does not apply to Business customers. I work for the business department and we have been told the business accounts will be exempted from the monitoring.
benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Does this apply to "Business" customers?

said by Cable_Guy :

]This does not apply to Business customers. I work for the business department and we have been told the business accounts will be exempted from the monitoring.
Thank you very much for this information. I guess I really am getting some extra value for my money.

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
I believe you (that you were told business customers won't be monitored).

I don't believe what you were told. Why not collect that additional fee for monitoring one more customer?

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

What can you do in the meantime ?

While awaiting Congressional action and any changes to privacy rules and ISP data collection of browsing history, what could you do if you don't want your data collected?

You could always use a VPN based proxy service. Then the ISP can't see your web pages to modify them since they are encrypted. The only thing they will see is that you are going to the VPN proxy web site - nothing more.

Here is only 1 example. There are many others:
»www.banana-vpn.net/supportfaq.htm
But it will cost you $20/mo.

So, if you REALLY don't want to wait or are overly concerned your browsing history may be monitored, then you can shell out some money and be sure of your privacy.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ixne

join:2004-03-23
Dearborn, MI

Other ISPs use NebuAD too

Wide Open West (WOW) for one. They recent sent the "Privacy Statement" that includes a link to Opt-Out of NebuAD. That adds a cookie that supposedly exempts you. And who doesn't periodically clean out cookies?
goalieskates

join:2004-09-12
Knoxville, TN
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Other ISPs use NebuAD too

Knology uses NebuAd too. I've been having an email discussion with them, and one nice lady kindly directed me to the NebuAd page where they promise the data is anonymized. When I wrote back and said hey, it can't be if they know me well enough to serve me an appropriate ad, she stopped answering.

Vertickle

join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Re: Other ISPs use NebuAD too

Did you see any method for opt'n out?
battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
I think that NebuAd can see that 10.100.100.143 goes to dslreports.com not goalieskates goes to dslreports.com.

so_true

@jillyred.net

said by Ixne See Profile :

Other ISPs use NebuAD too
Actually most the major ISPs use it. Charter simply came out publically before they planned on using it. And Charter hasn't even launched it. They just intend to test it in a few major markets. Meanwhile, the Cox's, TW's, Rogers, ATT, TDS, and Comcast's of the world fly under the radar keeping their customers in the dark. At least Charter is up front about it. ANd they aren'y even using it yet. lol

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR

Re: Other ISPs use NebuAD too

Comcast is not using NebuAd (I've tested).
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

Re: Other ISPs use NebuAD too

How do you test for NebuAD? I haven't seen anything like targeted ads on my ATTIS connection, but I am not sure what I should be looking for.

so_true

@jillyred.net

said by funchords See Profile :

Comcast is not using NebuAd (I've tested).
Correction, they are not using it in your market. Just like Charter is not using it my market, but they are using it elsewhere on their network.

said by coastjam See Profile :

IMHO you should look at your logs a little closer if your on Charters network and run a few more trace routes. Charters tracking you in more then one way. They have not been as up front as you might think. Look closer at your activity logs and firewall reports.
Been there done that. Nothing suspicious.

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast


edit:
June 9th, @12:58PM

Re: Other ISPs use NebuAD too

said by so_true :

said by funchords See Profile :

Comcast is not using NebuAd (I've tested).
Correction, they are not using it in your market. Just like Charter is not using it my market, but they are using it elsewhere on their network.
Please tell me where. (You can contact me privately and confidentially if you wish.)

Yes, you're right. I should not assume that everything is the same everywhere.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...

coastjam
Premium
join:2001-03-05
Atascadero, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage

IMHO you should look at your logs a little closer if your on Charters network and run a few more trace routes. Charters tracking you in more then one way. They have not been as up front as you might think. Look closer at your activity logs and firewall reports.
--
In a closed society where everybody is guiltily, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S. Thompson

PhoenixDown
-- Ron Paul 2008 --
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:

What about COPPA?

I suspect this breaks COPPA compliance as well.

»www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

-snip-
(A) means any person who operates a website located on the Internet or an online service and who collects or maintains personal information from or about the users of or visitors to such website or online service, or on whose behalf such information is collected or maintained, where such website or online service is operated for commercial purposes, including any person offering products or services for sale through that website or online service, involving commerce—

-snip-

(A) the release of personal information collected from a child in identifiable form by an operator for any purpose, except where such information is provided to a person other than the operator who provides support for the internal operations of the website and does not disclose or use that information for any other purpose; and

(B) making personal information collected from a child by a website or online service directed to children or with actual knowledge that such information was collected from a child, publicly available in identifiable form, by any means including by a public posting, through the Internet, or through—

(i) a home page of a website;

(ii) a pen pal service;

(iii) an electronic mail service;

(iv) a message board; or

(v) a chat room.
--
You have the right to protect your life, liberty, and property.

-- Ron Paul
Forums » Consumer Groups Want Charter, NebuAD Investigated


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