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Consumers Union Says T-Mobile Payment System Risky
Users Aren't Offered the Same Protections as Debit Cards
by Karl Bode Tuesday 09-Aug-2011 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth · consumers · T-Mobile US · wireless
Carriers like Sprint, AT&T and Verizon are all rushing into plans that involve using your smartphone to make store purchases. The plans for all three carriers involve using near field communications (NFC) technology embedded in smartphones to allow users to simply swipe their phones at the cash register. Originally, AT&T and Verizon had wanted to bypass the major credit card players (VISA, MasterCard) and pave their own way in the space, but recently realized they'd have better luck simply tying such systems to existing credit/debit lines.

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T-Mobile this week announced a similar but less aggressive plan to allow users to make online purchases with their T-Mobile accounts with a service dubbed "Direct Carrier Billing." However, according to the Los Angeles Times, the Consumer's Union is warning users that they may not be afforded the same consumer protections when using smartphones for purchases:

Legal protections limit users' liability if their credit and (to a lesser extent) debit cards are used to make unauthorized purchases, but transactions with T-Mobile phones are not afforded the same protections. In general, once consumers report unapproved transactions on their cards, they are liable for the first $50 but no more. With T-Mobile's system, however, if you find a huge charge you didn't make, you must rely on the good faith of T-Mobile, said Michelle Jun, a senior attorney at Consumers Union. That means the company has discretion to approve a refund -- or not.

Meanwhile carriers may have some work cut out for themselves when it comes to selling consumers on the deal. A recent survey suggested that just 21% of consumers are interested in mobile phone payment systems. Many also may not be comfortable letting AT&T and Verizon, recently under fire for completely ignoring privacy laws, anywhere near their financial data.

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fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

risky?

Given the proven greed of ANY carrier (mobile/cable/telco), trusting them with your credit/debit accounts is just asking for trouble. Even allowing them to "autobill" your checking account is absurd.
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56403739
Less than 5 months left
Premium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2

Re: risky?

Seriously, what idiot thinks this is a good idea? "Smartcard" credit and debit cards have already proven to be a huge security risk and now you're going to trust a cell phone company to keep your money safe? HELLO. Anyone think Verizon (for example but also in particular) can do it without emptying your account "accidentally" considering they can't even keep their own billing house in order?

Not a chance in hell.
tpkatl

join:2009-11-16
Dacula, GA

Why would I trust *any* mobile provider at all?

I'm trying to understand how I benefit from letting my cell provider handle my financial transactions. It's another link in a shaky chain. Suppose they don't forward the transaction properly? Where's the liability? Do they pay my late fee?

Why would I want all of my financial transactions to pass through another party that will data mine and build up a dossier for advertising?

More to the point, why would I trust any of them - Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint, or AT&T - to do it right in the first place?

NFC: An idea that ought to die quickly.

Romney2012
Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe in
Premium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4

1 edit

Re: Why would I trust *any* mobile provider at all?

My new Sprint Nexus S 4G has NFC built-in but as soon as the firmware upgrade turned it on, I turned it off. Aside from the lower legal protections, and the distrust of billing items to the phones cellphone account, I see NFC as just another mechanism to hack into the phone. From what I have read the security built in to NFC is rudimentary and easily hacked.

»www.securitynewsdaily.com/dialin···ks-0474/
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Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

Re: Why would I trust *any* mobile provider at all?

said by Romney2012:

My new Sprint Nexus S 4G has NFC built-in but as soon as the firmware upgrade turned it on, I turned it off. Aside from the lower legal protections, and the distrust of billing items to the phones cellphone account, I see NFC as just another mechanism to hack into the phone. From what I have read the security built in to NFC is rudimentary and easily hacked.

I would not trust this one bit, horrible idea.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Uh...

Are people really so lazy these days as they don't want to whip out their wallets and pay for things anymore? This whole idea of using your phone as a credit card has fail written all over it.
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JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

Re: Uh...

said by pnh102:

Are people really so lazy these days as they don't want to whip out their wallets and pay for things anymore? This whole idea of using your phone as a credit card has fail written all over it.

I'll bet people were saying the same thing about Credit Cards vs. Cash 20 years ago. So now CC's are accepted, we are paying 7% more for everything we buy to support the system even if we pay cash.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Uh...

said by JimThePCGuy:

I'll bet people were saying the same thing about Credit Cards vs. Cash 20 years ago. So now CC's are accepted, we are paying 7% more for everything we buy to support the system even if we pay cash.

I am talking more from a practicality perspective. Whipping out the wallet vs. whipping out the cell phone involve generally the same physical exertion.

But yea... as someone who recently reverted to using cash for nearly all of my purchases, it sucks to pay a hidden tax, but there's nothing I can really do about it. I'd rather pay that than pay interest on a balance.
--
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quantitious

@cox.com

Re: Uh...

For most (all?) credit cards I'm aware of, you only pay interest if you don't pay in full each month.

I use my credit card for places I would normally pay cash, and just pay it off every month. The only reason I do this is so I can build up a credit history for when I will inevitably need to take out a large loan.

Kevin1

@bell.ca

Re: Uh...

The hidden part is merchant fees for credit card processing. Most retails are forced to pay a percentage to the credit card company as a fee for handling the transaction. It is not generally as high as 7%, but it is often 2-5% of the total value of the transaction, and the business builds this cost into the retail price of all of its merchandise, since these agreements also prohibit merchants from charging the customer a premium for paying by credit card. This is why some merchants offer a discount for paying in cash.
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
I read an argument a while ago that I think applies, though I can't find the link, so just saying this isn't my original thoughts.

Sure, credit cards charge fees. The fees are generally in the 3-5% range per »truecostofcredit.com/ . And this is annoying to merchants.

What I've never seen is anyone listing how much it costs the merchant to take cash. Think about it, especially for gas stations. How many cashiers and cash registers are they able to do away with for the same volume of traffic when people pay at the pump? How many bank deposit runs are they able to eliminate for CC purchases? How much change do they *not* have to keep on hand because of exact change via CC?

How many customers would they lose if they were cash only? Not just for the need to keep $60 or so with you to fill up your tank, but also the extra waiting in lines to pay the cashier. Often twice, once to prepay, and once to get your change.

Or, if they went back to the old pay after you pump, how many drive-offs are avoided by pre-pay but with the convenience of pay after by using a CC?

It's a big lie in my opinion that handling cash is free, which is what is implied if you just take the "price for an item" and add the CC fees to it.
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JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

Re: Uh...

Pay at the pump is one exception. I pay at the pump. I also use a CC for Internet purchases.
I will say the commercial that purports buying with a CC at a walkup merchant is quicker than paying cash is pure BS.
I hate when I have exact change at a merchant and have to wait for all the CC junkies charging miniscule purchases, signing their CC receipt etc. I takes 5x longer per transaction easily .
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

Re: Uh...

I say it's a wash. I've seen people take forever to pay at a cashier with any payment method. It depends on the system and the cashier, but I've seen people get up to pay cash and:

1. Not have the wallet out. Why? I have no idea, it's not like it's a surprise you are going to need it. I've seen people take 3 minutes to *find* their wallet. Granted this isn't limited to cash customers, but anyway.

2. Notice they don't have enough cash. Or they want to do exact change, but now they have to hunt for their second changepurse, painfully count out 17 pennies while joking about the weight being too much (really, really old and not funny I'm sure)...

3. Seen either cashier or customer be unable to do math, and then have to figure it out.

4. Not have enough change in the register and start calling for a new tray or whatever the big boxes do that seems to take 20 minutes to resolve.

That said, I really wish people would be more prepared for the whole check-out process however they're paying. Part of this is the fault of the stores trying to make everyone swipe their own card or the laziness of the cashiers. It used to be easy for the customer, you hand method of payment to the employee who's been trained on the system in the store. They make the right thing happen.

Now, it's almost always a problem because the customer:

a) can't see the LCD screen
b) doesn't understand the LCD screen
c) both

And it's not even like they're standardized. Some you sign on the LCD, others print out a paper receipt for you to sign. Sometimes you don't sign at all. Some ask you cash,credit,debit,5 other choices here. Some guess and if you're using a debit card but don't want to pay the $1 your bank charges for using it with a PIN, or whatever, you then hit cancel of all things and then you can sign. The buttons are never in the same place, etc...

Anyway I can be through a CC cashier usually in the same amount of time handing a $20 over and getting change (and putting it away) takes.
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gball
Master Yoda
Premium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN
Round these parts I dont have to sign anything for purchases less then $25 dollars. Paying cash at the gas station is always slower for me.

JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

Re: Uh...

I have no argument when paying for something and there is no cashier. eg. Gas Pump, Internet etc.
But when I have exact change it's 5x faster than using a CC.
Like paying for a meal when leaving a restaurant where you pay the cashier not the server. Heck, paying the server with cash is 100x faster than using a CC.

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19

another middleman

If it didn't cost me more paying with cash than using my credit card I would do it. I could just imagine how much more it will cost when using NFC on top of the credit card.

this tech probably has better uses than a method of payment.

buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US

NFC good invention, on the top of the bad idea list...

I also will not be using this system or any NFC for payment ether. A few things to point out cash is just that cash if someone wants it they have to pick your pocket, credit/debit card same thing. With NFC on a phone the ways to hack in and steal your payment info are to simple bluetooth, wifi, over the cell network. etc. As the saying goes, " If you make it, someone will find a way to break it". Not to mention once this goes live All the Major Banking institutes will change there TOS for any purchase made via NFC which will mean the bank has 0 liability for purchase over NFC and will only credit you on a issue with purchases made directly with your card. we'll see how long this last.

PS: Im A Tmobile user but really, trust ANY mobile carrier (all are know for overcharging or screwing up your bill one way or another) with my credit card/debit card info...ROFLOL

Romney2012
Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe in
Premium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4

Re: NFC good invention, on the top of the bad idea list...

said by buddahbless:

A few things to point out cash is just that cash if someone wants it they have to pick your pocket, credit/debit card same thing.

Even credit/debit cards which are now getting electronic chips embedded can be hacked without them getting the card physically in their possession.
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asdfdfdfdfdf

@myvzw.com

This is one area where I have no interest in being...

on the cutting edge. I'll leave it to others to be the guinea pigs.
flbas1

join:2010-02-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

It will never be abused

We will never see stories like this about NFC:

»www.azdisruptors.com/blog/2011/3···ams.html

There will never be a vendor who signs me up for a recurring product using NFC loopholes. And, if anyone figures out how to do it, the phone companies will protect us.

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