 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Can Decision Be Bypassed? If these websites do not play any music owned by RIAA member labels, would they be off the hook from paying these royalties?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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 | hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD | Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? yes..if the content is not licensed by the loons then there's no royalties. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by hescominsoon  :yes..if the content is not licensed by the loons then there's no royalties. I dunno... Given the whole Nine In Nails thing, where it was the artist giving away their own music with their label's knowledge, the RIAA still beefed. So, it's not hard to imagine the RIAA trying to shut them down "on behalf of under-represented artists".
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. | |
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| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Yeah, but who would want to listen to your radio station? lol | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by brianiscool :Yeah, but who would want to listen to your radio station? lol There are plenty of other formats besides music which a for-profit online radio station could consider. Or, if the previous poster is correct about the RIAA member companies not having jurisdiction over material owned by non-RIAA members, they could simply play that instead. Of course, that implies that each station would need to make some sort of arrangements with the owners of that material instead.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by Maxo :said by brianiscool :Yeah, but who would want to listen to your radio station? lol Most of the good music being produced today is not on RIAA contract. There is good music being produced today?
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I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? Dragonforce (RIAA label I believe)
Mastadon (Another RIAA label)
TMBG (RIAA label)
Genghis Tron (Non-RIAA)
I'm not helping my case any. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by nixen :I wouldn't necessarily characterize either independent or RIAA content as inherently good or bad. It's not inherently good or bad, but it does happen that most good music that I hear today is coming from the independent scene. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by Maxo :said by nixen :I wouldn't necessarily characterize either independent or RIAA content as inherently good or bad. It's not inherently good or bad, but it does happen that most good music that I hear today is coming from the independent scene. While that may be anecdotally true, you also need to factor in all of the truly horrid artists that are independent because they either haven't matured to the point of being of label interest or are just hacks that will *never* be good enough for you to ever hear and be artistically offended by.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? I think we are arguing two different things. I'm not saying that independent music has a higher percentage of talent. I am saying that a higher percentage of the talent lies in the independent scene. | |
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join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? The talent is in top artist making the big bucks. The people are not famous are the ones with the worst music. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| well they basicly have four choices.
go off the air
stay on the air and get cashraped by the Record Mafia
Stay on the air and give the RIAA the finger.
goto another country, stay on the air and give the RIAA the finger.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by Kearnstd :goto another country, stay on the air and give the RIAA the finger. Gee thanks... now I can't get the song "Mexican Radio" out of my head... I guess I owe the RIAA a million bucks 
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by pnh102 :Gee thanks... now I can't get the song "Mexican Radio" out of my head... I guess I owe the RIAA a million bucks Just have some barbecue iguana. You'll be okay.
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I cannot stand demagoguery. If you disagree with my stance, you're a blithering twit. You're not a twit, are you? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? said by tapeloop :Just have some barbecue iguana. You'll be okay. Dude... that's just SICK!
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| in Tijuana | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | only if you stream your head to one listener will it be as cheap as a million bucks.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| There is always the Appeals Court as an option. There is a slight chance this decision can be overturned. If not then you have congress. Time Warner is one of the big boys who doesn't want this to happen. Maybe that along with enough letters to your congressman may help change royalty rate laws.
I remember a time when royalties were based on a percentage of your profits and not per unit sales. Copyright law is definitely being twisted to support the exact thing the law was made to protect. | |
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| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Re: Can Decision Be Bypassed? If anyone is interested, here is a description of what the court did, authored by the attorney representing the webcasters...
»www.broadcastlawblog.com/archive···als.html
Of particular interest is this little bit:
"It also did not even address the issue raised by the Broadcasters, pointing to the fact that SoundExchange had offered an expert witness in the satellite radio proceeding who contradicted the expert witness offered by SoundExchange in this case - the expert on whose testimony the CRB decision was based."
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Congress only hope for marginal music streamers said by GOLFnSUN :Unless Congress does something, all the little music streamers are going to be gone. Only those internet radio stations with large ad income like Rhapsody, AOL, etc will survive. Most people won't care. And that is why the chance of passing a law in Congress is slim. And, this is exactly why this new rate hike is being proposed. This is how the RIAA wants it.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by GOLFnSUN :And that is why the chance of passing a law in Congress is slim. Not only that, but the RIAA member companies (though not the RIAA itself) are more politically aligned with the Democrat party than the Republican party.
»opensecrets.org/industries/contr···cle=2006
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: Congress only hope for marginal music streamers Overall, but the RIAA clearly gave more to the Republicks than the Dems. That does not go unnoticed amongst those who were writing the laws and moving them to the floor for voting.
And the sobriquet "Republicks" is clearly as acceptable as "Democrat Party", since the proper and legal name is "Democratic Party". | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Congress only hope for marginal music streamers said by TScheisskopf :And the sobriquet "Republicks" is clearly as acceptable as "Democrat Party", since the proper and legal name is "Democratic Party". So I am supposed to call those people "Democratics?"
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| i take it the small guys cant be revolutionaries and just stay on the air no matter what the RIAA wants?
sadly nobody can throw RIAA royalty bills into boston harbor....
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Congress only hope for marginal music streamers said by Kearnstd :i take it the small guys cant be revolutionaries and just stay on the air no matter what the RIAA wants? Probably not... even the small guys have to buy Internet access from the big guys.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
·AT&T Midwest
| Bastards I guess I'll have to find a new hobby. No way I'll be able to afford those new rates. We didn't present a big enough argument? If thousands upon thousands of signatures, letters, petitioning, demonstrations, letters to congress, ect. isn't enough than I'm not sure what this country is becoming of. So much for freedom of expression.
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"You're as worthless as a screen door on a submarine!" Check out my Internet Radio Station & DJ Service, »www.thebomb102.com. | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: Bastards said by dslwanter :So much for freedom of expression. While I disagree with this decision and hope the streaming industry figures out a way to fight back, I fail to see how freedom of expression is restricted. You are restricted from using copyrighted material owned by someone else but you are certainly free to create your own music and stream it. That would actually be more freedom since are would be expressing your own creations not someone elses.
Meanwhile I guess I will be going back to listening to streams from Canada. | |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| Bad business decision that effectively closes a source of income for the RIAA, however meager they may think it is now. It's not like webcasters weren't willing to pay them. And this deal only makes sense if the goal is to encourage maximum media concentration.
As always, the market demand for this will be met regardless. Unfortunately now it will either be illegal, or outside the US. | |
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Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA
| Good news 1) at least the rates won't be retroactive so no new money owed.
2) although this was likely a no win situation, based on the judges comments, it sounds like the movign parties did a shitty job of bringing new beef to the table... judges don't like that.
3) again, webcasting is being given a kick to the nuts... a subtle signal to move on. Unfortunate, but time to consolidate for get the heck out.
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The worm he licks my bones | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| A message from pandora Hi, it's Tim from Pandora,
I'm writing today to ask for your help. The survival of Pandora and all of Internet radio is in jeopardy because of a recent decision by the Copyright Royalty Board in Washington, DC to almost triple the licensing fees for Internet radio sites like Pandora. The new royalty rates are irrationally high, more than four times what satellite radio pays and broadcast radio doesn't pay these at all. Left unchanged, these new royalties will kill every Internet radio site, including Pandora.
In response to these new and unfair fees, we have formed the SaveNetRadio Coalition, a group that includes listeners, artists, labels and webcasters. I hope that you will consider joining us.
Please sign our petition urging your Congressional representative to act to save Internet radio: »capwiz.com/saveinternetradio/iss···=9631541
Please feel free to forward this link/email to your friends - the more petitioners we can get, the better.
Understand that we are fully supportive of paying royalties to the artists whose music we play, and have done so since our inception. As a former touring musician myself, I'm no stranger to the challenges facing working musicians. The issue we have with the recent ruling is that it puts the cost of streaming far out of the range of ANY webcaster's business potential.
I hope you'll take just a few minutes to sign our petition - it WILL make a difference. As a young industry, we do not have the lobbying power of the RIAA. You, our listeners, are by far our biggest and most influential allies.
As always, and now more than ever, thank you for your support.
tim_signature.jpg
-Tim Westergren
(Pandora founder) | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Where is the FCC? Hmm.. When I read the mandate of the FCC, it specifically says 'to serve the public good'. I fail to see how letting the RIAFFIA close down small internet radio stations is in the public good. This is NOT a money play, it's a control play. The RIAA companies don't want small stations playing 'non-approved' (read: Clearchannel) playlists, instead they want to further their hold on you by controlling what you are allowed to listen to. This is the United States, and I thought we were supposed to be free, but I guess freedom is only as good as you can afford.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Mineola, NY
clubs: | Re: Where is the FCC? too busy trying to kill innovation in the sat radio arena to help out the major radio station companies | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Copyright Board Upholds its own Decision? Talk about a racket, an industry review board makes a ruling and then takes its own appeals. No chance for abuse there...
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| so that's it. So that's why Rhapsody is going up in price... From $10 to $13 per month now...
I never even use the radio streams, I'd rather pick my own tunes to listen to.
Still, this does suck for the little guys who just want to stream out some tunes. Guess this means Shoutcast will be going bye bye 
Granted, I'm not much of an internet radio fan, but I thought the idea was neat - and totally harmless. Honestly, the sub-culture who does enjoy net-radio are not people who are hurting the industry... why even bother taking this away by making it so expensive that people MUST pay for it? | |
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jeffjs
join:2000-12-11
US
·Comcast
| It's the cost of doing business. I don't get it. The cost of doing business is increasing, so everyone's upset? If you can't make enough money to pay the overhead, get out of the business. If you don't care about making money, then find some free content. If the free content doesn't attract the listeners you want, then again, you're in the wrong business.
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I walk upon this Earth by the power of my own two legs. | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: It's the cost of doing business. What business--any business-- could survive if their fixed costs went up 1000%?
Your outlook on this is quite odd. Have you ever owned a business?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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jeffjs
join:2000-12-11
US | Re: It's the cost of doing business. Never owned a business, but I'm in one where the cost goes up enormously ever quarter. It sucks, but you have to compensate somehow.
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I walk upon this Earth by the power of my own two legs. | |
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| | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: It's the cost of doing business. Well then, imagine the business you're in receiving a bill for all of 2006 amounting to 3-10 times your total gross revenue, simply because one of your vendors, who you've been faithfully paying under a negotiated agreement for five years, decides you didn't pay enough.
Then, imagine that a court validates the bill, and sets a deadline 45 days out for you to pay up. All on the say-so of the vendor. And by the way, you also owe for January 1, 2007 through today, at an even higher rate. And also by the way, the vendor operates the price-setting apparatus with no oversight whatsoever.
This is basically what's going on here.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: It's the cost of doing business. said by RadioDoc :Well then, imagine the business you're in receiving a bill for all of 2006 amounting to 3-10 times your total gross revenue, simply because one of your vendors, who you've been faithfully paying under a negotiated agreement for five years, decides you didn't pay enough. Then, imagine that a court validates the bill, and sets a deadline 45 days out for you to pay up. All on the say-so of the vendor. And by the way, you also owe for January 1, 2007 through today, at an even higher rate. And also by the way, the vendor operates the price-setting apparatus with no oversight whatsoever. This is basically what's going on here. yes this is the kinda stuff people like the Mafia do and if im not mistaken they are charged under the RICO act.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | music supply is controled in a similar criminal manor to oil. there is no competition for pricing or license fees.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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paulhaskew
Unoffical Dominos Spokesman
join:2002-01-10
Vancouver, WA
clubs: | ..... Don't you all get it? These judges are PAID to make these calls... pure and simple greed gets in the way of common sense... | |
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baileysl
join:2000-11-06
Hopewell, VA | Will their be problems with Live 356 How will this affect Live365?? | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Will their be problems with Live 356 * poof * | |
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Dv Jones
join:2004-02-22
San Francisco, CA | Whup Dee Doo Like this ruling or any other legislation will affect anything that happens on the Internet. Laws as politicians understand them simply don't apply to the Internet. | |
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DivineDark
join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
| This is not good Here is an example of a music site that will be killed by the rate hikes. I got an email today from them saying they wont be able to pay and will shut down the webpage unless the users can appeal to their state reps. People please take a min to visit Pandora.com and check it out. This is an amazing site that will be destroyed and it makes me sad because its a way for me to find new music. | |
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BPLSUCKS
join:2006-04-26
Grand Ledge, MI | FTW! www.di.fm for the win! | |
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short09
join:2006-07-21
| rate structure ima do an example of math
1 cent per 10 listeners per hour.....at the least it would be like $8 a month for 10 listeners......im sure the riaa can afford to miss out on $8 a month...dont they alreadt rip off people who buy music by overpricin cds...no wonder why i dont buy cds.....riaa already makes a lod of money off cd purchases | |
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id_deleted
join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT
4 edits | Does it really even matter? I broadcast my own password protected "secured" station. Its called place-shifting which is basically taking the place of internet radio anyway. It plays the songs "I" like from a multi-gigabit selection of high quality mp3's.
The DJ for my station is an artificial intelligence system called AIVMS, which delivers information like news, traffic, and weather reports along with the music. It also broadcasts my HDTV cards TV signal, along with quite a nice collection of DVD's.
I can access the station from anywhere over the internet, I even use my little wifi pocket PC to listen in or watch TV.
All the RIAA and MPAA are doing is expediting the transition to private internet radio stations and TV re-broadcasting, which they cannot profit from since their power only extends to public broadcasts. IOW, they are shooting themselves in the foot with a cannon. | |
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AnonShawUser
join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB
| Streaming radio lowers piracy Since discovering streaming radio through Winamp's built-in online media library feature, I haven't taken the time or effort to download a single song for storage. None.
Streaming audio has made the RIAA lots of bucks and has, in my case, dramatically reduced the amount of music "piracy" I've engaged in. But, if the stations I listen to go off the air, guess where I'll be turning to get my music from?  | |
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Copyright Board Upholds Webcasting Decision
Congress only hope for marginal music streamers
Club977 a victim?