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Court Declares Google Liable For Wi-Fi Snooping

A federal appeals court this week ruled that Google could be held liable for civil damages for the company's 2011 scandal involving the company's collection of Wi-Fi data from unsecured hotspots using their Street View vehicles. To come to that conclusion, the court followed a rather unique logic path; according to the court, unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not "radio communications" that are "readily accessible" to the general public and therefore Google violated the Wiretap Act.

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The problem is that Wi-Fi is of course radio communications, and unsecured hotspots are of course readily accessibly to the public, so by most reasonable legal standards Google didn't violate the law.

The court oddly comes to its conclusion that Wi-Fi is not radio communications because the technology isn't auditory in nature:

quote:
Bizarrely, the court seems to rely on the claim that most radio communications are "auditory" (i.e., involving sound) and thus data transmissions are somehow not radio. Seriously. This statement is so uninformed and flat out wrong that it's kind of shocking the court made it. Specifically the ruling says that the "telltale signs" of "radio communications" are that they're (1) "auditory" and (2) "broadcast" and then says it doesn't even need to consider whether or not WiFi signals are broadcast, since the fact that they're not auditory means they don't even have to consider that fact.
So in summation, the court is arguing Wi-Fi isn't radio communications because you can't hear it, and unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots aren't publicly accessible.

While Google certainly does plenty wrong, the hysteria surrounding this particular issue has been remarkable for what actually occurred. If you recall, Google acknowledged that they were collecting snippets of actual transmitted data -- though Google insisted they did so accidentally, and only from unsecured hotspots.

Several studies subsequently found that little to no useful data was collected, given collection vehicles automatically changed channels roughly five times a second -- and also faced physical obstacles and interference. Google was ultimately pretty straightforward about screwing up, and the data was neither useful or complete -- yet Google keeps running the legal and regulatory gauntlet.

Now Google's being held liable for potential civil penalties in large part because a court doesn't really understand what Wi-Fi is.
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IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

1 recommendation

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

They need a lesson on privacy

Google is not the greatest in terms of protecting privacy.

My house wi-fi is secured and the SSID is hidden.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

3 recommendations

elefante72

Member

Re: They need a lesson on privacy

Hiding SSID does nothing, and they were collecting data whether your encryption is on or not. And there are differing levels of "security" on a residential router.

If you want to increase your security add a VPN P2P tunnel (preferably openvpn) on top of your wireless payload.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

My house wi-fi is secured and the SSID is hidden.

Hiding the SSID actually exposes your privacy more than having it open....

.... reason being, that devices themselves (i.e., your laptop, smartphone, tablet, etc.) have to broadcast the SSID when they try and connect to a hidden network. If you have your hidden network programmed into any of these devices, then they will broadcast that SSID whenever they aren't connected to a wi-fi network, in an attempt to connect to the hidden network.

Just something to consider.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
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join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
In this situation google did nothing wrong and did not invaded anyones privacy.
The open source code they used for their wifi AP finder also recorded the wifi traffic. Recording traffic from wifi access points from public spaces like the roads is 100% legal. Also, only unencrypted wifi traffic can be used for anything.
I cant believe a judge is so stupid and so computer illiterate they are awarding civil damages. There was not even $1 in civil damages anyways.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Going by this logic...

It's OK to listen in on digital and encrypted radio traffic. Since they are not "auditory" all of the other laws and rules making it illegal to listen to mobile phones and encrypted audio should be null and void.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Going by this logic...

No "radio" wave length is in the auditory range of humans, that's why you need a radio/receiver/amplifier to demodulate and make it in to a sound we can hear.
The content is all data whether it's broadcast in digital or analog format.
As far as if it was intended to be public, it's impossible for someone to know without listening. since the SSID, (if broadcast) is intended as a station ID beacon, it would seem that "privacy" was NOT the intent of the sender.
time for a new appeal
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Going by this logic...

said by tshirt:

since the SSID, (if broadcast) is intended as a station ID beacon, it would seem that "privacy" was NOT the intent of the sender.

The SSID is the network's way of saying "I'm here! Connect to me!" It is not the network saying "I'm here! Log the packets of all the clients connected to me!"

It's illegal to listen into other transmissions broadcast in the clear, e.g., analog cordless phones, analog cellular phones (when they existed), etc. Why should wi-fi be exempt?

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: Going by this logic...

"I'm here! Connect to me!" is all they intended to get and all that was likely in a 0.2 second time slice (reasonably establishes that extended eavesdropping was not the intent)
incidental listening (say picking up an extention to determine if another user is on the line) is not the same as wiretapping or deliberately staying on a party line to listen in.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Going by this logic...

Irrelevant.

They could have avoided ALL "inadvertent" collection with a simple capture filter. Yours truly is capable of doing this with free software (Wireshark) but a Fortune 100 company with the best software and network engineers on Planet Earth couldn't figure it out?

The best thing you can say is that they were negligent. Those of us who are more cynical about them have to wonder if it wasn't intentional. This is the company whose CEO declared that privacy is dead, the company whose entire business model depends on targeted advertising, and we're supposed to take them at their word?

When they settled the AG lawsuit they agreed to destroy all data collected in the United States. Do tell, why are they saving the rest of the data if this collection was "inadvertent"?

What amuses me more than anything else is how they get a pass from the majority of the readership here, the same crowd that's up in arms when Verizon, AT&T, Time Warner, et. al sell the information they have on you for a profit, and that's in spite of the fact that the aforementioned disclose what they do and provide an opt-out mechanism. Google couldn't even bother with disclosure until they got caught, never mind allowing you to opt out of their data collection practices...

r81984
Fair and Balanced
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join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Going by this logic...

They used free open source software. They just did not turn off the data logging that was on by default.
Also this judge is insane. What google did was 100% legal and caused no one civil damages.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

Given the wholesale spying these days

I'm not a big fan of Google but given the NSA's wholesale spying on everyone Google's actions were pretty tame.

Of course the NSA's spying is "legal" because a bunch of politicians and judges say so despite the 4th Amendment.

Just goes to show that judges can reach any decision they want as long as it meets their ends.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Given the wholesale spying these days

What google did was also 100% legal.
You are free to record radio waves in public areas.

anonome
@verizon.net

anonome

Anon

Court declares itself liable

for untold levels of ridicule due to a complete lack of understanding of all things technical.

elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

1 edit

elios

Member

Crazy presadent

"The court oddly comes to its conclusion that Wi-Fi is not radio communications because the technology isn't auditory in nature"

HO HO this could be fun wonder what will mean for well ANY digital wireless signal

FCC is going have a LOONG talk with the judges after this
this could really break some things
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN

Chubbysumo

Member

Re: Crazy presadent

since its not really "radio communications", i can use any spectrum I want, right?

elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

elios

Member

Re: Crazy presadent

sounds like it to me
FCC is going to love this lol

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB

Member

Not that odd

The question is really what was meant by "Radio" as written into the law. If when the laws were written 'Radio' only meant audible broadcast transmission over a carrier, then the court would be correct.

Yucca Servic
join:2012-11-27
Rio Rancho, NM

Yucca Servic

Member

Radio definition

Radio is the wireless transmission of signals through free space by electromagnetic radiation of a frequency significantly below that of visible light, in the radio frequency range, from about 30 kHz to 300 GHz.

The definition doesn't say what technology it uses. Radio is radio and a modern miracle.

WiseOldBear
Laissez les bons temps rouler!
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Litchfield Park, AZ
Motorola MB8600
Synology RT2600ac

WiseOldBear

Premium Member

They Are Lawyers--Do Not Expect Logic

Hey the legal system is not about truth, logic, justice or any of that. It is about ego, power, winning and greed. Heed Willy Shakespeare's words: "First we kill all the lawyers."

And then we send all elected politicians to Antarctica where the collective hot air will indeed produce global warming.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

The real problem with this...

is in the way the law is written. There is no doubt that WiFi operates over radio, the court realizes this. The problem is that the exemption for the wiretapping statute is specifically for 'radio communication' and not the broader 'electronic communication'. While 'radio communication' is not expressly defined, the court relied on case law to determine the meaning. They are simply saying that WiFi signals don't fit the legislative purpose of the wiretap exemption.

Besides that is the 'readily accessible to the general public'. Obviously we all know it is possible for someone in the general public to access the data but it is simply not what the general public does. The general public doesn't put their WiFi cards into promiscuous mode and drive around intercepting traffic. They DO drive around and log the locations of SSIDs (war driving) and the court would have probably held that to fit the 'readily accessible...' clause but intercepting the traffic requires more than what the general public do on WiFi.

Remember, the court is making decisions based on the way the law is written and applied, not on common meanings. When those two don't agree, it is time to rewrite the law.

Probitas
@teksavvy.com

Probitas

Anon

double standard

If I as a customer of ISP leave my wireless open, I can be held liable for providing access for pirating purposes. Yet Google can be held responsible for sniffing that open and unsecured content too? Come on, make up your minds, they can't both be guilty.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer

Premium Member

Re: double standard

You can't be held liable for pirating that happens on your open wireless connection unless you are aware of it and facilitate it.

elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

elios to Probitas

Member

to Probitas
oh yes they can the court loves having both parties as the both the perp and victim just look all the silly cases of teen "sexting" where both parties are under age and every one involved is both victim and perp

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Mountain out of a molehill

This whole multi-year vendetta against Google is bogus. They collected some info by accident; did away with it(as much as courts let them); and made sure it couldn't happen again. Both countries and ambulance chasing lawyers are just looking for an undeserved payday. No one was harmed here and courts should have thrown these civil cases out of court long ago.
Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL

Stumbles

Member

Re: Mountain out of a molehill

If only the same tenacity had been used against Mircosoft back in the day.

skeptic
@montanasat.net

skeptic

Anon

Google's story change when German prosecutors began investig

The author seems not to recall the changes in Google's story once German prosecutors began their investigation. US federal officials were content to take Google's word at face value (or maybe they had the blessing of DOJ and the NSA to suck up encrypted payload data). However, once they were required to answer questions under penalty of perjury, Google admitted to gathering data on all networks, encrypted and unencrypted. Whether one can believe that the only info they retained on encrpted networks was an SSID and the fact it was encrypted, recent revelations of their partnership with NSA makes many of us skeptical, especially in light of multiple changes in Google's story to German criminal investigators. As the German investigation proceeded, several of Google's engineers indicated that Google's broad collecton of router data wasn't inadvertent as the company sent the data to multiple divisions (anyone not beleve that at a minimum the US government was given all router data showing which were encrpted and which weren't and most likely NSA was given unencrypted data and encrypted payload data to decrypt).

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Google's story change when German prosecutors began investig

Recording radio waves in public is 100% legal so this whole thing makes no sense.
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
united state

b10010011

Member

So if WiFi is not radio comunications this means the FCC...

No longer has any control over it.

elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

elios

Member

Re: So if WiFi is not radio comunications this means the FCC...

or any digital wireless transmission of that matter yea FCC cant be happy