page: 1 · 2  |
 
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  Universities overstating cost impact
Unless overturned by the Supreme Court, this ruling means that universities, ISP's, etc. must install wiretapping equipment at their own expense so that law enforcement(with a court order) can tap into VOIP, emails, IM's, etc, on internet connections. And I believe the Supreme Court, as currently constituted, will uphold this ruling.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
|  | brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: Universities overstating cost impact Prick us! Do we need bleed? | |
| | 
Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI | So what's to stop people from encrypting their VoIP? It's not hard to do and can be done either in the router firmware or on the PC itself. Skype is a perfect example. | |
| | | 
PunkGod
join:2003-02-02
| Re: Universities overstating cost impact said by Jim Gurd  :So what's to stop people from encrypting their VoIP? It's not hard to do and can be done either in the router firmware or on the PC itself. Skype is a perfect example. This isn't just for VoIP. | |
| | 
scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| I figure if the government wants to wiretap and eavesdrop then they should pay for the cost of implementing the equipment. Philosophical differences aside, why should I have to pay out of pocket because some spook wants to catch kids trading mp3's? Oh...the terrorism thing..okay, well whats not to stop these people from using encrypted protocols to do their business? Then all that money I spent on installing wiretapping equipment for the government to "listen" to Habib's conversation to Abdul in Pakistan is wasted anyway, since the traffic is encrypted...
Either way, the government should pay the costs if that's what they choose to mandate.. | |
| | | 
Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH | Re: Universities overstating cost impact You are going to pay for either way, Taxes or service fee increase. I would rather see the ISP pay for it, it would be more fair for someone who uses it to pay for it... | |
| | | |
scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA | Re: Universities overstating cost impact there shouldn't be any tax increase at all, the spending is out of control. There needs to be better accountability, and we need to get these RINOs out of office. | |
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by scrummie02 :Either way, the government should pay the costs if that's what they choose to mandate.. Bentman, unfortunately our government is full of unfunded mandated.
I totally agree with you and have much to add to this. I am all for being safe which is the federal government's #1 job! (which they seem to loose sight of many a' times) And I agree, "we the people" which is the government need to start making money available for securty vs. the overly funded program of trying to find out why people have buyers remourse when they purchase a vehicle.
If they want to mandate things, they need to be prepared to pay for it - to a reasonable point - and this is one of them. When are "we the people" going to stop allowing our government to 'control' us and start representing us.
The sooner Bush goes, the better off we will be. | |
| | 
tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by GOLFnSUN :I think the universities are GREATLY overstating the costs of implementing this. Most already have the network mgt tools(sniffers for ex.) in place to do this with little additional costs. I believe they are exaggerating the costs because they have a philosophical disagreement with helping the government and law enforcement to catch students breaking the law. Unless overturned by the Supreme Court, this ruling means that universities, ISP's, etc. must install wiretapping equipment at their own expense so that law enforcement(with a court order) can tap into VOIP, emails, IM's, etc, on internet connections. And I believe the Supreme Court, as currently constituted, will uphold this ruling. Why should universities be forced to do this in the first place? They have peering agreements with outside networks like ATT for example. A quick look at the Missouri's University network shows that we have peering with ATT and Qwest (in the past we had one with SBC also, but since the merger that doesn't count anymore). Point being? ATT already watches and logs everything we do - no need for redundency.
--
|-In a fascist government, National Security ALWAYS overrides Personal Freedoms.-| |- »www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml -| | |
| | |
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Universities overstating cost impact said by tiger72 : A quick look at the Missouri's University network shows that we have peering with ATT and Qwest (in the past we had one with SBC also, but since the merger that doesn't count anymore). Point being? ATT already watches and logs everything we do - no need for redundency. I doubt they do that, no matter what the buzz is about NSA & AT&T. But it really doesn't matter. Because law enforcement may want to tap LOCAL LAN traffic while pursuing a criminal. And AT&T or Qwest or whoever wouldn't see traffic contained within the university lans. And a court order would still apply there too.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
| | | | 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Universities overstating cost impact said by GOLFnSUN :said by tiger72 : A quick look at the Missouri's University network shows that we have peering with ATT and Qwest (in the past we had one with SBC also, but since the merger that doesn't count anymore). Point being? ATT already watches and logs everything we do - no need for redundency. I doubt they do that, no matter what the buzz is about NSA & AT&T. Well, that's your usual pro-corporation, pro-Bush uninformed-styled crap - they do it.
FYI: that's the point behind the direct fiber split to the NSA, to be able to see everything.. | |
| | 
anonpisser
@optonline.net
| I think the FCC is being un-realistic.
Why don't they make a device or devices that can be deployed to do the monitoring. It's them that want to monitor they should fit the bill..
F-it.. I want this paid for directly out of the congressional (fund raising coffers {oops I do mean personal piggybank).
The corruption needs to end.. Corporation need not be able to purchase congress and senators and in turn laws.
Stop the corruption!! | |
| | | | |
tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Universities overstating cost impact said by batterup :said by GOLFnSUN : law enforcement(with a court order) can tap into VOIP, emails, IM's, etc, Court order?? Badges? We don't need no stinken badges. Terrorists don't use badges and court orders, so niether should we!
--
|-In a fascist government, National Security ALWAYS overrides Personal Freedoms.-| |- »www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml -| | |
| | | | 
batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Universities overstating cost impact said by tiger72 :said by batterup :said by GOLFnSUN : law enforcement(with a court order) can tap into VOIP, emails, IM's, etc, Court order?? Badges? We don't need no stinken badges. Terrorists don't use badges and court orders, so niether should we! You forgot pedophiles, the other magic word. | |
| | | | | | | 
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| I can understand the universities philosophical disagreement.They are after all there to instruct an teach, not do police work or spy on its enrolled students.I can see the Schools admins monitoring the network to keep it operational.
What is being asked here,Is that not unreasonable search and seizure?
However TK, due to the political nature of recent events.I have to agree, with you here
quote:
the Supreme Court, as currently constituted, will uphold this ruling
Not only will the court let it stand, they will see no point of contention to debate its merits, Case closed end of story,is what will happen.
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by GOLFnSUN :Unless overturned by the Supreme Court, this ruling means that universities, ISP's, etc. must install wiretapping equipment at their own expense so that law enforcement(with a court order) can tap into VOIP, emails, IM's, etc, on internet connections. And so the Department of Homeland security, the IRS, or whomever else can also tap into everything WITHOUT a court order, if they so wish.
Great. I feel safer already.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| AMDonUT2004
join:2006-06-12
Bedford, VA | ouch.. ...costs more for college kids to go to college. So that they can watch what we do on a daily basics online... why?
The judge, the court,...  | |
| 
knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| Crooks are still crooks Forcing wiretap does nothing to the high tech crook/thief that is already using encryption. You might catch Joe Blow low tech thief, but the amount of money spent far outweighs what you gained.
I guess all the crime syndicates operate out of colleges and my grandmom's dial up connection? | |
| | asianboi2k
join:2002-12-29
Danbury | Re: Crooks are still crooks this is gonna be fun, wonder how long before an exploit comes out that will allow civilians to operate the systems.
Think the government has a chance of getting sued when it gets misused? | |
| | | 
tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: Crooks are still crooks Think the government has a chance of getting sued when it gets misused?
Does a snowball have a chance in Hell? | |
| | 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Once again the.... The Universities are not telling the truth. The Fed' will pay and have paid for these changes. These Universities want to have their cake and eat it to. They don't want to piss off the government because of Federal tit they all feed off of for research moneys, so instead they whine and moan we don't have the money. If they where honest they and their left wing faculty would come out and object to this because the demon Bush is trying to spy on them. The problem is there is all that federal money....
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Once again the.... said by Transmaster :...The Fed' will pay and have paid for these changes..... there is nothing in the FCC order that mandates the government paying for the required changes. Unless the FCC or congress changes something, the universities and others have to pay for this out of their pocket.
That is one reason most are complaining, especially since when this was mandated for the wireline system, legislation specifically directed that the telcos be reimbursed. | |
| GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA | As I said last month, welcom to ... The Commie States of America. | |
| | | | | | 
pb5k
more cowbell
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ
·Cox HSI
1 edit | It's interesting that during the cold war, our conservatives lambasted the Soviets for spying on their own people. They also criticised the Reds for requiring "papers" to travel, in contrast to our freedom of movement.
Now our government and police agencies are demanding the same rights that those evil reds had, to spy on our own citizens and increasingly require papers and identification even when no law requires it.
Our current government does not mind totalitarianism, as long as it's wrapped in an American Flag©. | |
| 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Why the Gripe about Costs? Governments impose numerous costs on individuals, businesses and other organizations. These become the cost of doing business. Phone companies have to pay for the costs of being able to comply with wiretap orders. Car owners have to pay for the costs of vehicle safety inspections and repairs. Heck, the government even mandates that you wear clothing when you go outside. Who pays for all of these things? You do.
Any business or other institution has an obligation to cooperate with the government when it comes to executing legally obtained search warrants. Why are some people here insisting that such places get an exemption from this sort of thing?
--
Tancredo 2008! | |
| vanDSLuser
Unimaxx for your biz
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Vancouver, BC | So encryption is illegal Long live Tor and GPG!! | |
| |
tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: So encryption is illegal you may wanna hop onto freenet. Tor aint secure. | |
| nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ | Long live the KING Heil king George... Must be a happy day for all those that voted for this monarch... and some decry the death of monarchy in the U.S | |
| | 
DiscardedVet
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Sturgis, SD
1 edit | Re: Long live the KING said by nutcr0cker :Heil king George... Must be a happy day for all those that voted for this monarch... and some decry the death of monarchy in the U.S
I think you'll appreciate my avatar.
DV | |
| jc100
join:2002-04-10
1 edit | Rip Constitution WHY are people worried about the cost? Shouldn't we be worried about the civil liberties lost under the Bush administration? Hasn't this Evil Monster done enough harm?The Republican party was suppose to mean less government? But the patriot act and wiretapping help us how? Let's see....
1) NO criminals have notably been caught using these wiretaps....That would have made the news ( and we all know Bush would BRAG about it to!!)....SO WE are giving up our rights for a PRELIMINARY OVER-REACTION
2) THE PATRIOT ACT HAS allowed the government warrantless wiretaps and searches of our records... LIBRARY ETC....
3) That ring a bell? China and other dictatorships/ communist countries do this to keep track of their citizens...AREN'T WE SUPPOSE TO BE AMERICA? Land of the free? Where's the public outcry... Don't let this evil monster misguide you with his ludicrous war on terror. We have more to fear from this man and his trampling of the constitution than we do from real terrorists... Is it better to live oppressed and "safer" or live your life as normal.... If you are so scared, move to a padded room while the rest of us live and enjoy life... The government is not suppose to rip away freedoms so it can propagate its own agenda...What next? Free speech?
SPEAK OUT guys and write your congressperson before its too late... STOP this trend....we must put an end to it before its too late and these rights are gone forever. | |
| |
pb5k
more cowbell
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ
·Cox HSI
|  Re: Rip Constitution
It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt.
If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the Sedition Act. | |
| 
Agent_haito
join:2002-09-20
Winston Salem, NC
| Interesting Monitoring our phone calls, tracking our surfing habits online, tracking the books we check out/buy,sifting through your email, pushing a National RFID card, tracking your spending on certain medicine,tracking your driving patterns, wow amazing how far we've come.. Or is it how far backwards we've gone.... Each day brings us more Weapons of Mass Distraction in the news, while the Regime(both Parties) secure more and more strangleholds on what we all hold dear. I wonder, in 20 years from now what our children will be saying about the good ol U.S. | |
| |
anonpronman
@optonline.net | Re: Interesting i've said it before i'll say it again.
welcome the the USSA! | |
| |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by Agent_haito : Each day brings us more Weapons of Mass Distraction in the news, while the Regime(both Parties) secure more and more strangleholds on what we all hold dear. I wonder, in 20 years from now what our children will be saying about the good ol U.S. IMO if we don't do something now to correct this.In ten years or less our children will not be allowed to speak out against the current tyranny as it will be a punishable offense.
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| | | 
Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
| Re: Interesting said by guitarzan :said by Agent_haito : Each day brings us more Weapons of Mass Distraction in the news, while the Regime(both Parties) secure more and more strangleholds on what we all hold dear. I wonder, in 20 years from now what our children will be saying about the good ol U.S. IMO if we don't do something now to correct this.In ten years or less our children will not be allowed to speak out against the current tyranny as it will be a punishable offense. There is a time and a place for everything.When they take everything away and we all have nothing we will have nothing to lose.Its all the seeds for Revolution and every action will have a reaction as soon as the people get there head out there ass and look to see just what they let go.IMHO its already starting and those things on the hill are not your friend's or have our best interest in mind.Can you say Night of the long Knifes!
--
»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
| 
dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000
·CableOne
| Give me a break! Really the only complaining I got. Are people like these 2 above me. People like this always crying about losing there freedom. I haven't lost nothing. My life is the same as 20 years ago. I am still free. What is really the problem is liberals have no plan. So they always scream our freedom is being taken away. Give me a break already. Seems to me the ones that are complaining. Must have something to hide. I see these new laws helping in other ways, besides terrorism. How about the sick ass child predators. These laws would track sickos like that. Maybe some of you are a predator? | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
dylking
join:2001-07-31
Saint Paul, MN
| just out of curiosity I wonder what the penalty would be for 'non-compliance'.
I found this little requirement rather unsettling:
Private networks would not be subject to the wiretap requirements, but those connected with a public network would have to comply with the law.
So, any private network that has access to the internet would have to comply? wouldn't that be just about every corporation in America, then? | |
| |
hellinhandbasket
@162.94.x.x
| every individual's network, too? ". . . So, any private network that has access to the internet would have to comply? wouldn't that be just about every corporation in America, then?. . . "
Hell, my "private network" at home has access to the internet. Wouldn't that be the next step? | |
| gensai
join:2006-04-15
Seattle, WA
| look.... hey look... I'm not for the wiretapping crap that's been brought up, but honestly if all of you are so fed up with it, then do something. To sit back and do nothing solves nothing. You're complaining and yet you do nothing. You want something done, then do it. Or stop complaining. | |
|
anomynous
@rr.com
 from:
guitarzan
| perfectly reasonable... Cable companies introduce a new feature for set-top boxes - built-in camera and microphone - and a service to permit video calls from the comfort of your couch.
Soon, yet another service built upon this capability would be monitoring of your home for intruders.
Also, in order to increase the accuracy of the TV viewing data collected by your set-top box and reported back to your cable company, the TV cameras will also allow checks as to whether someone is actually watching the program the set-top box is tuned to.
As a deterant to child molesters and sexual predators, the police are granted the power to tap this audio-video feed. Of course, it will only be used for this purpose and kept in strict confidence.
Given the good intentions, why would anyone object? You're not doing anything illegal, are you? | |
| | gensai
join:2006-04-15
Seattle, WA
| Re: perfectly reasonable... That's my view on it to. But also some of these people make a good point about if this continues, then at some point it will get outta hand. So I see both sides, but I do tend to agree with your point more. I think that's the best approach to an arguement. View both sides and judge for yourself. | |
| 
FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| my friend... Do something?
Both liberals and GOP'ers are ONE IN THE SAME. But are you implying that we move? LOL. Cuase thats really the only thing that can be done now. I find it a bald face lie that the governemnt wants ONLY to look for terrorists an the such. I DO find it true that the pimps an hustlas (naw, not that black guy on the corner, I mean the pimp that jus sold you a 5 dollar shirt with a 50 dollar Abercrombie logo) are doing as Pimpz do; slapping around their bitch til she "complys with the mandate". Big business, big oil, wish my 'representatives' had big balls that could be used to stand up for what is right an not what is "gonna make us all rich!!!!!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAA!" | |
| | gensai
join:2006-04-15
Seattle, WA
| Re: my friend... this is a major issue here. And yes do something! People are wanting things to change, but they're not willing to do what is nessasary to change it. I'm not implying move. I'm implying picketing, sending letter after letter to your congressman. Basically be annoying as possible to get it through their heads. Then if they don't listen, then and only then can you say we did what we could, government is going to hell and isn't listening to us. And then you can complain while sitting back and doing nothing. | |
| | | kimmer
join:2006-06-02
Tampa, FL
| Re: You Are All Missing The Entire Point The NSA is just going to arbitrarily and without cause surveille Net traffic because they want to. No crime. No warrant. No court. No judicial oversight of any kind. Just because they feel like it.
Well, having spent some time working for the NSA in the recent past, I can say for sure that the above statement is made from pure ignorance. It takes people and machines to conduct signals interception. People and machines cost ALOT of money, especially the highly trained people and high tech machines used at NSA. Now, I know for a fact that the NSA would not waste money conducting operations "arbitrarily and without cause," just cuz they feel like it. Escpecially when there are billions and billions of calls and electonic communications (in myriad languages) floating around the ether.
As for the people who work for the NSA (and other government agencies), guess what? They are normal regular people, just like the rest of society. There isn't some secret farm out in the Virginia countryside where they grow government employees. They are are democrats and republicans and no-preference voters, they go to the local church/mosque/synagogue and shop at the local stores. Their kids go to the local schools. They are Americans, just like you. They could care less about listening in on you ordering a cheese pizza from Dominos, so get over yourself. | |
| | | SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: You Are All Missing The Entire Point said by kimmer : Now, I know for a fact that the NSA would not waste money conducting operations "arbitrarily and without cause," just cuz they feel like it. Can you provide the slightest shred of evidence that there is any validity to this day dream ? Can you even present a logical argument to even try to counter the mountain of evidence that exists that proves your point of view to be totally full of shit ?
- Warrant-less wiretapping ?
- No court orders ?
- 1 week grace period to obtain court order after the violation of privacy occurs, but still no court orders ?
- Search engine subpoenas for internet searches, seemingly innocent enough due to no associated user info.
This is just the first time the illiterate fugger gets caught. Next time he will be much smoother, and accompanied by plenty of "Hush Money" (Tax incentives to play along, cash kick backs funded by the 5 billion dollars of income from Iraqi oil sales.) All of the 5 Billion dollars a month that bushit and cheatme earn from Iraqi oil goes un-accounted for. Now you think I am fulla shit ? Google returns 17 million, 7 hundred thousands hits on these 3 words "Missing Iraqi Money".
I have already forgotten more of the bushit scandals than I can remember from the last 5 presidents put together. It's a real shame for this to be coming from a fellow (to bush) Texas Redneck ! That alone should make you try to pay attention !
Kimmer, it is government agents like you and the remaining 50 % of the population that thinks like you that is the reason of the fucked state of the union right now. Rest assured, the other half of us will probably be able to stand about 18 more months of the shit before we revolt, so don't be feeling so smug and comfortable. 
War on terror ? Leave the poor fucks alone, and they would love to leave us alone ! They are not a bunch of goats as bushit so ardently belives. They are people. Salam wu'alakim' | |
| | |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by kimmer :The NSA is just going to arbitrarily and without cause surveille Net traffic because they want to. No crime. No warrant. No court. No judicial oversight of any kind. Just because they feel like it. That for a fact is being done now.
said by kimmer : Well, having spent some time working for the NSA in the recent past, I can say for sure that the above statement is made from pure ignorance. It takes people and machines to conduct signals interception. People and machines cost ALOT of money, especially the highly trained people and high tech machines used at NSA. Now, I know for a fact that the NSA would not waste money conducting operations "arbitrarily and without cause," just cuz they feel like it. Escpecially when there are billions and billions of calls and electonic communications (in myriad languages) floating around the ether. NO the government NEVER wastes money.Anyone remember the Pentagon fiasco from a few years back,where they purchased $600 screwdrivers, which were and are available at any local hardware store.? What they cost today $2100 or better ? LOL.And for our Troops being sent overseas,Remember their weapons are made by the lowest bidder.
Plus the fact the government wants ISPS to start collecting and keep all internet data of their customers.Yup no waste of taxpayer money there
said by kimmer : As for the people who work for the NSA ,(and other government agencies)They are normal regular people, just like the rest of society. There isn't some secret farm out in the Virginia countryside where they grow government employees. They are are democrats and republicans and no-preference voters, they go to the local church/mosque/synagogue and shop at the local stores. Their kids go to the local schools. They are Americans, just like you. Bull fucking shit, 99 percent of John Q public,has no idea who NSA employee's are.
As they along with other government agents live in private closed communities not easily accessed by average everyday citizens.
Their privacy of who they are,what they do,who they work for, and their real identity.Is a strictly guarded and well kept secret,meaning their privacy is not being violated.In fact these people move a lot from place to place to hide who they are.
So based on what you want us to believe.The following scenario is likely?
Hello neighbors,I see you just moved in next door to us,Welcome to the neighborhood,My name is So And So,I work for the NSA.Where do you work?
Yup get over yourself pal and quit spreading FUD and lies.Americans are fed up with lies and bullshit emanating from the current crop of corrupt politicians and its cronies.
BTW: Use spell check next time so you intelligence agents appear more intelligent
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| 
sandman9r
Premium
join:2003-11-09
Bronx, NY
 ·Optimum Voice
·Optimum Online
| The Dreaded Slide I hate to use the stupid term but this simply reeks of slippery slope.
As much as I hate to bash hard core liberals, how could anyone possibly tolerate this blatant invasion? Granted, most law abiding citizens won't even care but it's actions like these that slowly chip away at the Bill of Rights. | |
| |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: The Dreaded Slide said by sandman9r :I hate to use the stupid term but this simply reeks of slippery slope. As much as I hate to bash hard core liberals, how could anyone possibly tolerate this blatant invasion? Granted, most law abiding citizens won't even care but it's actions like these that slowly chip away at the Bill of Rights. As a Conservative. I'm an equal opportunity basher when it comes to the protection of our Bill of Rights and our Constitution.
In fact I'm a biggot beer basher.You bring the biggots and the beer and I'll bash "em"
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| jc100
join:2002-04-10
| To Kimmer: I'm glad the NSA is so diverse.. .equal opportunity employer... Big fucking deal? It's equally screwing Americans along all lines... Just because it cost so much money to tap people, do you for a moment believe that we should rely on the government for its own oversight... Yea that always works (sarcasm).. When's the last time the government has cared about how much it spends to accomplish a goal? 1) Star Wars... 2) Vietnam 3) Iraq.... for better or worse, our government doesn;t learn.. We are suppose to be run by the people for the people.. So when did we become run by business, to pander to business? I'm all about a free market but I'm not about:
1) Government snooping in my life.. Do you really trust your information to be secure.. Look at the millions of VA documents and other records that got stolen / disappeared.
2) The information not being sold to corporations... Who the hell knows what they do with it....There is no "Public Oversight" on this.
So go ahead, trust your rights to the BIG GOVERNMENT...IE Republican party.. Democrats might be involved, but they were the brains behind this.... ANd I think personally this country is going to hell on both sides. We need a government speaking for the people, and right now it speaks for no one but fortune 500 companies. | |
| |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: To Kimmer: said by jc100 :So go ahead, trust your rights to the BIG GOVERNMENT...IE Republican party.. Democrats are also involved but they were the brains behind this.... ANd I think personally this country is going to hell on both sides. We need a government speaking for the people, and right now it speaks for no one but fortune 500 companies and itself JC
You raisd penty of interesting points in your post.Fixed it for you in bold
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
| |
Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
1 edit | said by jc100 :I'm glad the NSA is so diverse.. .equal opportunity employer... Big fucking deal? It's equally screwing Americans along all lines... Just because it cost so much money to tap people, do you for a moment believe that we should rely on the government for its own oversight... Yea that always works (sarcasm).. When's the last time the government has cared about how much it spends to accomplish a goal? 1) Star Wars... 2) Vietnam 3) Iraq.... for better or worse, our government doesn;t learn.. We are suppose to be run by the people for the people.. So when did we become run by business, to pander to business? I'm all about a free market but I'm not about: 1) Government snooping in my life.. Do you really trust your information to be secure.. Look at the millions of VA documents and other records that got stolen / disappeared. 2) The information not being sold to corporations... Who the hell knows what they do with it....There is no "Public Oversight" on this. So go ahead, trust your rights to the BIG GOVERNMENT...IE Republican party.. Democrats might be involved, but they were the brains behind this.... ANd I think personally this country is going to hell on both sides. We need a government speaking for the people, and right now it speaks for no one but fortune 500 companies. FSA!!Drink Coke Buy A American car made in China don't worry about us spying on you its for your protection....This country as officially went to total Shit!!!!!Would the Last true American Please take the flag with you!!
--
»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
|
FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| Gensai didnt the "people", well, some "people" try that back in the 50's and 60's over Racism? I still get told "those slacks are expensive" before trying em on at ALL stores...lol looks like the people lost that battle. I know where you were going with your post, but without deep pockets NOTHING could ever be done. Welcome to USSA!
Land of the sleaze, home of the slaves... | |
| | gensai
join:2006-04-15
Seattle, WA
| Re: Gensai I do see your point. And I know racism is still rampid which i'm disgusted with. But then again, racism is now up to the citizens, not the government. There are laws, and yes cops are guilty of it too and I'm sure politicians are as well. But with the country wide outcry laws were changed. Weither or not the politicians or citizens will follow is another issue. Like the marches against racism, it is all you can do, the rest is up to the politicians. | |
| sancraig
join:2003-11-05
Saint Louis, MO
| I dont get some people We can all stand around pointing fingers across the aisle and be still in the same place we are right now. Just a bunch of ppl whining and crying thats disturbing, if the founders of this country thought that way we'd be hailing the queen atm.
The Gov't has been doing things like this for a very long time, sure maybe not to this magnitude but in similar ways. I for one will be writing my congressmen my state Gov't, and yes my president. I did the same when they tried the carnivoure project, I know it prolly had no affect but I did this as my part, And the best way to send a message is with your VOTE. The only way they understand is to lose some power. | |
| jc100
join:2002-04-10
| Correction + Truth. *werent should have been the word..Democrats were involved but were not the brains behind it..They get the blame.. i'd say 30 percent for passing it.. Republicans get the biggest share, its after all a Republican Congress....and untrue to their word and NOW want big government.... And im taking my flag and crying it in... As Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of justice has gone the way of the wind... cause everybodys busying screwing up for our own "PROTECTION".... Last time I checked, I was a big boy, and rather safeguard mysef than have someone else do it... What next, the gov will want to install cameras in m house so they can make sure I go to bed on time? If i call off work, IM REALLY SICK.....If i forget to brush my teeth, my dentist knows.....Seriously, Big Brother is looking over our shoulder way to much. | |
| | | |
|
|
Court Ok's FCC ISP Wiretap Push
You Are All Missing The Entire Point