  baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Last Mile Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade.... | |
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 |   Matt Gone playing Dragon Age Origins Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Last Mile said by baineschile :Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade.... They will when they need to. You can already get a direct fiber drop from most MSO business class divisions so they have the technology. They have ZERO reason right now to shoulder the expense of running FTTH though. Coax has a lot of life left in it for the majority of people and the 1GHz upgrade extends it even more.
Also, Verizon, FiOS specifically, is a very localized threat to most cable companies. Verizon doesn't serve a very large part of the country, so in the areas where FiOS is the competing product, Cable can roll out DOCSIS 3.0 surgically. | |
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 |   bofkentucky
@insightns.com | Probably not, ftt curb/node/neighboorhood and some variant of wireless from there to the house will probably be the next evolutionary stage. | |
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  jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Bandwidth Worries? With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
What, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure? | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Bandwidth Worries? It's not just about HSI.
will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+ | |
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 |  |  Da Man
join:2008-05-08 Hanover, PA | Re: Bandwidth Worries? Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? | |
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join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Bandwidth Worries? Maybe they'll be coming along with the upgrades. Can the current tuners continue to be utilized by the MSOs moving HSI QAM channels to the added frequency range and maintaining TV in the existing range? | |
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join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? I think TWC has bigger issues than just deploying Docsis 3. Running 1GHz may bring out issues in many older homes with RG-59U. I had an issue on 1 link in my house that is RG59U (DTV replaced the other 2 with RG6 a few years back). Worked fine on DTV - but TWC digital gear didn't like it. I ended up taking an old(er) RG6 that ran the long way around and works Ok.
Many 'older' houses may end up with issues similar to mine. This is probably similar to AT&T with old POTS wire having issues. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   motorola870
join:2008-12-07 Arlington, TX
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? time warner cable north texas did an upgrade during the last 2 1/2 years
we went from 750MHz/550MHz motorola gear dual line areas to 870MHz motorola gear with some 1GHz nodes, Amps, and LE's.
SNR on highest channel (CBS COLLEGE SPORTS HD) is
QAM 256 861MHz SNR: 39.7dB SNR: GOOD ERROR:000000 | |
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 |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? said by Eat Me :said by Da Man :Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels? I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz. Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? Cable and FiOS are not the same. The full 860MHz spectrum from FiOS TV is ONLY used for their TV services and has nothing to do with the GPON or BPON ONT data bandwidth. FiOS uses the same 860MHz spectrum only so that they can utilize existing cable equipment at the homes.
Cable uses the 860MHz spectrum for everything. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? said by Eat Me :This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz. And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz. Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth. To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway. And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves. It's not the same, Fios uses a separate wavelength of fiber that does not take away any capacity from their digital television service. Cable uses QAM channels that take up a certain amount of the frequency spectrum. Such as a 6MHz channel. There are a limited number that can be distributed. Within this 860MHz spectrum, all TV, data, and voice services are transmitted. For FiOS, ONLY the TV service is used for the ENTIRE 860MHz spectrum.
It's different.
»www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=68206
My FiOS ONT is rated up to 1.2 GHz right now. They are also ready to provide MPEG-4, but with the same issues that cable has providing the necessary STB's to everyone. The latest Motorola boxes that many FiOS customers have can already do MPEG-4. | |
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join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ 1 edit | Re: Bandwidth Worries? 1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.
2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.
Pay attention in science class next time. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? said by Eat Me :1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz. 2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light. Pay attention in science class next time. Please show me where cable is using separate wavelengths over coaxial cable. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA | Re: Bandwidth Worries? That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   jmn1207 Premium join:2000-07-19 Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Eat Me :2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light. Pay attention in science class next time. I've never disputed this, if you read my comments I have been saying that FiOS and cable are not the same. And you keep suggesting that cable is doing the same thing with wavelengths over the RF spectrum in the same way that FiOS is using separate wavelengths over optical cable. This is not true. They are not doing the same thing.
There is a lot more bandwidth available with FTTH, even considering the upgrade to the 1GHz spectrum. | |
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join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| Re: Bandwidth Worries? said by espaeth :said by Eat Me :Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space. Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have. A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners. I don't see swapping out boxes for customers who want, say an additional HD tier to be a problem. After all, the cable companies always tout "free" equipment upgrades as a reason to go to cable vs satellite.
Some customer owned equipment (such as TiVo) also has MPEG-4 built in as well. | |
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 |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
1 edit | Re: Bandwidth Worries? said by Dogfather : I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets. They don't have to because they just de-prioritize manage network traffic throttle streaming audio/video, and any patches/hotfixes/updates during 5-9p. Throttling over a four hour window allows Cocks to do such "wonderful" things as "upgrading" to 1Ghz. They're basically fucking over one set of subscribers in favor of impressing another set completely enthralled with the so called upgrade. In reality, anyone impressed with the 1Ghz news is braindead and/or does not have to suffer with Cocks as their ISP. | |
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 |  |  |  geowil
join:2008-04-20 Laveen, AZ | Re: Bandwidth Worries? really? between those times I have never noticed a drop in speed ever from youtube or azureus or anything. o.O | |
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 |  ajwees41 Premium join:2002-05-10 Omaha, NE
·Cox HSI
| said by jmn1207 :With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth? » www.cox.com/policy/limitations.aspWhat, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure? the caps aren't enforced. | |
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 |  geowil
join:2008-04-20 Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI
| they hardly enforce their caps at all. I have downloaded over 80 gigs three months in a row and they have said or done nothing. | |
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 deadzoned Premium join:2005-04-13 Baton Rouge, LA | Traffic Management Caps, Traffic Management, and 1ghz equipment upgrades... They are preparing for teh impending BANDWIDTH APOCALYPSE that all of the cable and telephone companies are so afraid of that seems more imaginary than real. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
|
  RW Guy
@omcastbusiness.net
| 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation A 1 Ghz upgrade provides a lot of bandwidth. Here is my basic calculation converting that to the gross digital bandwidth.
1,000 Mhz (a.k.a. 1 Ghz)
DIVIDED BY
6 Mhz (cable system bandwidth is divided into 6 Mhz chunks ... also known as channels)
EQUALS
167 channels
MULTIPLIED BY
38 Mbps (current QAM digital modulators used in cable systems produce about 38 Mbps of data throughput per cable channel)
EQUALS
6,333 Mbps (the gross data throughput of a 1 Ghz cable system)
OR
6.3 Gbps of gross digital bandwidth | |
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 |  See 12 replies to this post |
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  cypherstream Looking forward to the future of things. Premium,MVM join:2004-12-02 Reading, PA clubs:
| Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast. Gee, you don't hear Comcast doing a damn thing in this regard. Hell, they still have 450 and 550 MHz systems around. They got way too greedy and purchased every mom and pop cable system they could get their dirty little hands on. Why? Just to let the old infrastructure sit there and rot?
My area is 750 MHz. It's been 750 MHz HFC for a little over 10 years now. Every 10 years the systems should of depreciated enough to warrent an upgrade. But what does Comcast do (more like what DON'T they do...)? They just let the old SA System II linegear sit up there and get rusty. Way to go with a crummy lineup and very minuscule HD lineup.
Heck, I know a provider in my area that's rather small called Service Electric Cablevision. I used to have them in fact. They upgraded from Magnavox 750 MHz to C-COR 870 MHz gear. Yeah, you woudn't catch Comcast ever do such a wonderful thing for their network and customers!
COX, KUDOS to you! Your really doing a stellar job, and that's quite an ambitious project. I also think they are working with NDS on a new Tru2Way guide for the cable boxes. Another thumbs up! Meanwhile everyone else is stuck with plain old SARA or crappy I-Guide. | |
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 |  jmallory
join:2005-11-02 Clawson, MI | Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast. The South Oakland (Royal Oak, MI) system was upgraded to 1Ghz last year. Lansing, MI was upgraded as well. The rest of Metro Detroit is 860Mhz. Yes, Comcast has a lot of 450 / 550 / 750 systems but Comcast has a lot of systems period. | |
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 |  |   cypherstream Looking forward to the future of things. Premium,MVM join:2004-12-02 Reading, PA clubs:
| Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast. What I like about Cox, however, is their blanket statement that all systems will be 1 GHz by 2011. From Comcast you get no statement at all, as they love to keep you guessing. The biggest problem with Comcast is their lack of consistency. From lineups to guides to system capacity, you name it. That's got to be the biggest downfall to their sheer size. | |
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 |  |  |   atuarre Here come the drums Premium join:2004-02-14 Lake Charles, LA clubs:  | Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast. Cox is a privately owned company and does not have to answer to shareholders about the costs of upgrades. Shareholders are interested in a return on the their investment, not about what the customer wants. Comcast is still a public company. | |
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  cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
| Not much of an upgrade The upgrade...will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+. 200+ SD channels and 100+ HD channels? This is what their upgrade is getting them? Their competition is already well beyond that on the SD front and nearly at that on the HD front. I remember years ago Dish offering 250+ channels as part of their highest non-premium tier. Similar with DirecTV. Both have around 90 channels in HD IIRC. The Essentials plan with FiOS TV has 250+ SD channels and another 100+ are available in HD. All this doesn't include quite a few spanish, international, adult, or other niche programming that is also available that greatly increases the number of channels.
If they are only going to 200+/100+, I guess they have a different idea of what conquering bandwidth concerns for the next 10 years means. | |
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