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story category Cox: Fully Upgraded To 1Ghz By 2011
Will upgrade 12,000 miles of network in 2009
(old news - 10:44AM Monday Feb 02 2009)
tags: business · hardware · alternatives · bandwidth · cable · networking
Cox is upgrading its network to 1Ghz equipment across its entire customer base. The upgrade (and this is even before we get into DOCSIS 3.0) will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+. It will also allow the provider to offer tiers of 25Mbps/4Mbps for relatively little dough. A Cox exec recently stated that between 1Ghz upgrades, switched digital video (which frees bandwidth by holding unwatched channels at the edge router), and DOCSIS 3.0, cable is "on the cusp" of conquering bandwidth worries "for at least the next 10 years." According to MultiChannel News, Cox says they'll upgrade an additional 12,000 miles of its network to 1 GHz this year, reaching 80% of homes by the end of 2010.

Of course, Cox will also be helped by their announcement last week that on top of monthly caps, the carrier intends to "de-prioritize" non time sensitive traffic -- particularly of the P2P variety. They've also adopted a new RIAA plan to terminate the connections of users who repeatedly traffic in copyrighted content.

Related:
  1. Comcast To Deploy Femtocells
  2. Verizon Laughs Off DOCSIS 3.0
  3. Broadband May Kill The Game Console Wars
  4. Still Waiting On Faster AT&T Speeds, Line Bonding
  5. Knology Gets Closer To DOCSIS 3.0
  6. Grande Communications Intros PowerBoost
  7. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  8. Metrocast Offers Fiber To The Home
Forums » Cox: Fully Upgraded To 1Ghz By 2011
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baineschile
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join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Last Mile

Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade....

Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
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Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Last Mile

said by baineschile See Profile :

Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade....
They will when they need to. You can already get a direct fiber drop from most MSO business class divisions so they have the technology. They have ZERO reason right now to shoulder the expense of running FTTH though. Coax has a lot of life left in it for the majority of people and the 1GHz upgrade extends it even more.

Also, Verizon, FiOS specifically, is a very localized threat to most cable companies. Verizon doesn't serve a very large part of the country, so in the areas where FiOS is the competing product, Cable can roll out DOCSIS 3.0 surgically.

bofkentucky

@insightns.com
Probably not, ftt curb/node/neighboorhood and some variant of wireless from there to the house will probably be the next evolutionary stage.

Eat Me

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Sussex, NJ
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1 edit

Re: Last Mile

Wireless would actually be a step back, unless you're talking about wireless plant extension.

The attenuation and SNR through the air versus through the coax makes using the existing coax a no brainer.

Fiber to the home is seriously overkill for most home users.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Bandwidth Worries?

With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?

»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp

What, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure?
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

It's not just about HSI.

will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+
Da Man

join:2008-05-08
Hanover, PA

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

Maybe they'll be coming along with the upgrades. Can the current tuners continue to be utilized by the MSOs moving HSI QAM channels to the added frequency range and maintaining TV in the existing range?

coxengr
Premium,VIP
join:2002-03-09
Atlanta, GA
Here you go:

»tinyurl.com/Motorola-1GHz

»tinyurl.com/CiscoSA-1GHz

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
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Re: Bandwidth Worries?

Time Warner went and replaced our gear with 1ghz stuff last year. But they haven't bothered to deploy new set tops, nor DOCSIS 3. Maybe they'll do something useful with it by 2020.

-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

I think TWC has bigger issues than just deploying Docsis 3.
Running 1GHz may bring out issues in many older homes with RG-59U. I had an issue on 1 link in my house that is RG59U (DTV replaced the other 2 with RG6 a few years back).
Worked fine on DTV - but TWC digital gear didn't like it.
I ended up taking an old(er) RG6 that ran the long way around and works Ok.

Many 'older' houses may end up with issues similar to mine.
This is probably similar to AT&T with old POTS wire having issues.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

time warner cable north texas did an upgrade during the last 2 1/2 years

we went from 750MHz/550MHz motorola gear dual line areas to
870MHz motorola gear with some 1GHz nodes, Amps, and LE's.

SNR on highest channel (CBS COLLEGE SPORTS HD) is

QAM 256
861MHz
SNR: 39.7dB
SNR: GOOD
ERROR:000000

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
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said by Da Man See Profile :

Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.

Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.

FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.

Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by Eat Me See Profile :

said by Da Man See Profile :

Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.

Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.

FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.

Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
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1 edit

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well.
FiOS and cable are doing the same thing, except the FiOS is using wavelengths of light. Cable is using wavelength of RF. They are both electromagnetic waves.

But separate spectrums of whatever don't matter at all. All that matters is total bandwidth allocated, whether it is continuous or broken up across the spectrum.

Since Cox does plan on keeping some level of analog service, they will most likely put some digital video (digital cable) over 860MHz and towards 1GHz.

The article also mentioned MPEG-4 so it is likely that they will end up deploying new STBs with 1GHz and MPEG-4 capability.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

Cable and FiOS are not the same. The full 860MHz spectrum from FiOS TV is ONLY used for their TV services and has nothing to do with the GPON or BPON ONT data bandwidth. FiOS uses the same 860MHz spectrum only so that they can utilize existing cable equipment at the homes.

Cable uses the 860MHz spectrum for everything.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
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2 edits

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz.

And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz.

Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth.

To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway.

And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by Eat Me See Profile :

This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz.

And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz.

Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth.

To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway.

And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves.
It's not the same, Fios uses a separate wavelength of fiber that does not take away any capacity from their digital television service. Cable uses QAM channels that take up a certain amount of the frequency spectrum. Such as a 6MHz channel. There are a limited number that can be distributed. Within this 860MHz spectrum, all TV, data, and voice services are transmitted. For FiOS, ONLY the TV service is used for the ENTIRE 860MHz spectrum.

It's different.

»www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=68206

My FiOS ONT is rated up to 1.2 GHz right now. They are also ready to provide MPEG-4, but with the same issues that cable has providing the necessary STB's to everyone. The latest Motorola boxes that many FiOS customers have can already do MPEG-4.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 edit

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.

2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.

Pay attention in science class next time.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by Eat Me See Profile :

1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.

2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.

Pay attention in science class next time.
Please show me where cable is using separate wavelengths over coaxial cable.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
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Re: Bandwidth Worries?

It's basic physics.

If you have two different CATV channels, one carrying TV and the other carrying DOCSIS, they are carried on different frequencies and hence different wavelengths.

The only difference is that with FiOS it is colors of light and with cable it's all RF.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
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Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service.
DOCSIS can use any frequency that the tuner supports. If the cable system is 1GHz, it can use anywhere within that 1GHz of space.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

said by Eat Me See Profile :

2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.

Pay attention in science class next time.
I've never disputed this, if you read my comments I have been saying that FiOS and cable are not the same. And you keep suggesting that cable is doing the same thing with wavelengths over the RF spectrum in the same way that FiOS is using separate wavelengths over optical cable. This is not true. They are not doing the same thing.

There is a lot more bandwidth available with FTTH, even considering the upgrade to the 1GHz spectrum.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
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Re: Bandwidth Worries?

You have been disputing it over and over, yet the facts keep flying in your face and you just wipe it off and continue.

Yes, I agree that FTTH has more bandwidth available.

Yes I agree that GPON and fiber in general is capable of much more than coax is right now.

Yes I agree that cable is severely limited by physics, with coaxial copper cables having significantly more attenuation in dB/km than fiber.

BUT!

I do not think that matters for product offerings today nor up to 5 years from now in the USA.

I think that cable can offer all that FiOS is offering today with a move to use more RF spectrum.

Yes I do think that cable will eventually have to go fiber for the last mile, but I don't think that's necessary today to offer what Verizon is.

No I don't think that Verizon is going to offer 1GBps today for $50 or even $100. Not in this country and not in this economy.

Yes I do think that using advanced techniques such as MPEG4 compression is necessary to free up even more bandwidth.

Understood?

espaeth
Digital Plumber
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said by Eat Me See Profile :

Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.

Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners.

Eat Me

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Sussex, NJ
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Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by Eat Me See Profile :

Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.

Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners.
I don't see swapping out boxes for customers who want, say an additional HD tier to be a problem. After all, the cable companies always tout "free" equipment upgrades as a reason to go to cable vs satellite.

Some customer owned equipment (such as TiVo) also has MPEG-4 built in as well.

Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA
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1 edit
I've been with Cox for over 10 years, regularly blow through my caps and only got one abuse letter back in the @Home days.

I haven't seen anyone recently (within the last few years) get an abuse letter or get cancelled for going over the caps. Cox during the earlier network management debate used examples of their users using over 900MB/mo so I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets.

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:


1 edit

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

said by Dogfather See Profile :

I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets.
They don't have to because they just de-prioritize manage network traffic throttle streaming audio/video, and any patches/hotfixes/updates during 5-9p. Throttling over a four hour window allows Cocks to do such "wonderful" things as "upgrading" to 1Ghz. They're basically fucking over one set of subscribers in favor of impressing another set completely enthralled with the so called upgrade. In reality, anyone impressed with the 1Ghz news is braindead and/or does not have to suffer with Cocks as their ISP.
geowil

join:2008-04-20
Laveen, AZ

Re: Bandwidth Worries?

really? between those times I have never noticed a drop in speed ever from youtube or azureus or anything. o.O
ajwees41
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE
·Cox HSI

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?

»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp

What, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure?
the caps aren't enforced.
geowil

join:2008-04-20
Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?

»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp

they hardly enforce their caps at all. I have downloaded over 80 gigs three months in a row and they have said or done nothing.
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA

Traffic Management

Caps, Traffic Management, and 1ghz equipment upgrades... They are preparing for teh impending BANDWIDTH APOCALYPSE that all of the cable and telephone companies are so afraid of that seems more imaginary than real.

Eat Me

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Sussex, NJ
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1 edit

Told you so

Cable can.

For most home users, fiber to the home is really overkill at this point.

When there's a need for something like 1GBps speeds to the home, FTTH would be appropriate, but there's a lot that HFC can do that it isn't doing.

Not to say that it shouldn't be built out, but cable providers can leverage their existing cable plant for advanced services at minimal cost.

They are either just too lazy to do it, or bogged down by FCC rules and legacy customers who will howl and complain if they start dropping analog service. These are probably the same customers who resist getting a cable box or DTA because of the outrageous fees for rental that the cablecos charge.

Kudos, Cox. Let's hope the rest follow suit. With Verizon breathing FiOS down their necks they sure have an incentive to.

See 7 replies to this post

RW Guy

@omcastbusiness.net

1 Ghz bandwidth calculation

A 1 Ghz upgrade provides a lot of bandwidth. Here is my basic calculation converting that to the gross digital bandwidth.

1,000 Mhz (a.k.a. 1 Ghz)

DIVIDED BY

6 Mhz (cable system bandwidth is divided into 6 Mhz chunks ... also known as channels)

EQUALS

167 channels

MULTIPLIED BY

38 Mbps (current QAM digital modulators used in cable systems produce about 38 Mbps of data throughput per cable channel)

EQUALS

6,333 Mbps (the gross data throughput of a 1 Ghz cable system)

OR

6.3 Gbps of gross digital bandwidth

See 12 replies to this post

cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:

Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.

Gee, you don't hear Comcast doing a damn thing in this regard. Hell, they still have 450 and 550 MHz systems around. They got way too greedy and purchased every mom and pop cable system they could get their dirty little hands on. Why? Just to let the old infrastructure sit there and rot?

My area is 750 MHz. It's been 750 MHz HFC for a little over 10 years now. Every 10 years the systems should of depreciated enough to warrent an upgrade. But what does Comcast do (more like what DON'T they do...)? They just let the old SA System II linegear sit up there and get rusty. Way to go with a crummy lineup and very minuscule HD lineup.

Heck, I know a provider in my area that's rather small called Service Electric Cablevision. I used to have them in fact. They upgraded from Magnavox 750 MHz to C-COR 870 MHz gear. Yeah, you woudn't catch Comcast ever do such a wonderful thing for their network and customers!

COX, KUDOS to you! Your really doing a stellar job, and that's quite an ambitious project. I also think they are working with NDS on a new Tru2Way guide for the cable boxes. Another thumbs up! Meanwhile everyone else is stuck with plain old SARA or crappy I-Guide.
jmallory

join:2005-11-02
Clawson, MI

Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.

The South Oakland (Royal Oak, MI) system was upgraded to 1Ghz last year. Lansing, MI was upgraded as well. The rest of Metro Detroit is 860Mhz. Yes, Comcast has a lot of 450 / 550 / 750 systems but Comcast has a lot of systems period.

cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:

Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.

What I like about Cox, however, is their blanket statement that all systems will be 1 GHz by 2011. From Comcast you get no statement at all, as they love to keep you guessing. The biggest problem with Comcast is their lack of consistency. From lineups to guides to system capacity, you name it. That's got to be the biggest downfall to their sheer size.

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Lake Charles, LA
clubs:

Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.

Cox is a privately owned company and does not have to answer to shareholders about the costs of upgrades. Shareholders are interested in a return on the their investment, not about what the customer wants. Comcast is still a public company.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Not much of an upgrade

The upgrade...will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+.
200+ SD channels and 100+ HD channels? This is what their upgrade is getting them? Their competition is already well beyond that on the SD front and nearly at that on the HD front. I remember years ago Dish offering 250+ channels as part of their highest non-premium tier. Similar with DirecTV. Both have around 90 channels in HD IIRC. The Essentials plan with FiOS TV has 250+ SD channels and another 100+ are available in HD. All this doesn't include quite a few spanish, international, adult, or other niche programming that is also available that greatly increases the number of channels.

If they are only going to 200+/100+, I guess they have a different idea of what conquering bandwidth concerns for the next 10 years means.
Forums » Cox: Fully Upgraded To 1Ghz By 2011


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