Cox: People Just LOVE Their TiVo Tuning Adapters People: well, not so much... Most cable operators are deploying switched digital video (SDV) technology, which frees up bandwidth on cable systems by delivering fewer channels to the cable-box, keeping the rest waiting at the edge router. In current cable systems, all channels are consistently made available to the set-top, using up valuable bandwidth even if your TV is off. Unfortunately, the new two-way SDV technology prohibits one way CableCARDs from working, so TivO and the cable industry cooked up a free adapter so users could continue to use their TiVOs. We've seen mixed user experiences with the devices. Many users simply don't want another gadget surrounding their TV, and many have had reliability and interoperability issues. TiVO of course doesn't think an extra box is a very elegant solution, and has been pushing the FCC to free up cable's grip on the set top box ecosystem by mandating more open, Internet-connected platforms. Of course if you ask the cable industry, these tuners are working just fine. Cox tells the FCC that consumers actually really love the devices: Cox Communications Inc. recently met with the FCC to punctuate the cable position, offering a listing of testimonials from MSO customers that illustrated their experiences with tuning adapter installations. According to the handout, the quotes were from TiVo surveys conducted around the launch of tuning adapters in the Cox Orange County and North Virginia systems. Not surprisingly, none of the evidence shared offered a negative reaction. Some of the testimonials come off as downright giddy. Comments to the cable industry's blog by actual consumers would seem to disagree. Can any of our users share their thoughts on whether they've had good experiences with these adapters (like the Cisco STA1520, above right)?
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  Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23
 ·Cox HSI
| No way to really know how problematic they are Complainers are the most vocal. If you went to any 'support' forum you would think that every piece of electronics is the biggest P.O.S. ever invented. I know a few people with TiVos and SDV adapters (on Cox) and don't have any problems at all.
IOW, people who don't have problems rarely pipe up about how the stuff just works for them.
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"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008. | |
|  | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: No way to really know how problematic they are Except when it comes to Comcast's rather high cap  | |
| | | Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23 | Re: No way to really know how problematic they are High is a matter of opinion. | |
| | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | said by iansltx:Except when it comes to Comcast's rather high cap 250GB represents about 5 hours of use time on their highest tier.
Cox's highest bandwidth tier in our state has no caps. Funny when competing with fiber the technical necessity of caps vaporizes. | |
| | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: No way to really know how problematic they are Uh, I HAD their highest tier for awhile (not an entire month) and didn't use 250GB.
By my calculations of your calculations, then I have four and some hours of "use time" on my 12M connection. Or is that eight and some hours?
In either case, I'm not just pulling down, nonstop, data so I never actually come close to 250GB. I know people who do get over the cap, then are asked politely to back off or upgrade to biz class, and they've backed off rather than paying more money or switching providers. This particular bunch was using newsgroups, though there are definitely legitimate uses for 250GB of data in a month.
Your analogy is like me saying that my cell phone plan only has 500 minutes of usage per month, therefore it's a total ripoff and I should have someone's head and the government should regulate such horrible companies out of existence. Thing is, I've gone over my allotted minutes ONCE in the three or so years I've been with my cellular provider. Could I go through them in a little over four hours by holding a three-way call? Yep. Have I ever done such a thing? Nope.
Could I get unlimited service on the same carrier for a similar price to what I'm paying now, if I wanted to give up "unlimited" (1+ GB per month is what I've used at times...and I used 9GB or so on my Evo for the three weeks I had that) data on a smartphone? Yep, I could. Just like people with Comcast cable can switch to their uncapped DSL provider who offers service at a slower speed. Or they could move to business class.
If you don't like a service that a company provides *that* badly and the competition fixes the probem you're having with your current provider, vote with your wallet and move. When Comcast stops gaining broaband customers who would rather have 12 Mbps with a 250 GB cap than 3 Mbps with no cap...well, then they'll raise the cap or kill it altogether, citing miraculous advances in network awesomeness. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | Re: No way to really know how problematic they are I would love to hear your explanation as to why Cox does not need any cap at all when fiber is near by. Does it change the state of the universe? Do bits somehow travel cheaper. Somehow I think you will dodge that one again.
This is how not so clever people try to distort and lie. Add a little of the truth into the lie. Cell phones have a massive bandwidth crunch, where as many wired systems are a self-induced super oversold cash grab, which is easily eliminated when competition arrives, IE - FIBER.
This is also a petty excuse, because one service does it, its ok for a completely different service to do it...Right.... | |
| | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: No way to really know how problematic they are So McDonals should offer an all-you-can-eat buffet for the price of their combo meal?
The analogy isn't stretched as far as you think. Broadband companies are for-profit entities. They'll do whatever they think will pull in the most revenue. If that means caps, then they'll tend to go that way. If it means killing caps, they'll tend to go that way. Believe it or not, despite their duopoly status, this isn't wrong. It just shows that someone hasn't had the guts to come up with something better.
Before you start railing about how coming out with something better is impossible, Chattanooga EPBFi is an excellent system, built in the face of Comcast and AT&T. Greenlight is an excellent system built in the face of TIme Warner Cable and CenturyLink. LUSFiber is an excellent system built in the face of Cox and AT&T. Oh, and on the private side NTS Communications' fiber projects (15/3, no caps or throttling) are excellent systems built in the face of Suddenlink and AT&T.
My point is that competition should solve the problem of halfway-decent caps, not two dozen people complaining. If it was five thousand plus people complaining, with news coverage and people threatening to drop service because their bills are now 2x higher then it becomes a PR nightmare for the corporation capping and they have to fix things, otherwise their competition will start advertising that they have no caps (e.g. Frontier vs. Time Warner Cable) and will start winning customers.
I'm all for muni fiber buildouts. I'm all for competitive carriers and breaking down regulation barriers to make them easier to start. However yakking about caps that don't even apply to you is a waste of everyone's time.
Understand my position? | |
| | | | | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: No way to really know how problematic they are said by iansltx:despite their duopoly status, this isn't wrong. It just shows that someone hasn't had the guts to come up with something better. I give up. | |
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| | |  Sean
join:2004-01-23
Toronto | said by DataRiker:said by iansltx:Except when it comes to Comcast's rather high cap 250GB represents about 5 hours of use time on their highest tier. Cox's highest bandwidth tier in our state has no caps. Funny when competing with fiber the technical necessity of caps vaporizes. If you want to use your home connection to run a server, pay for Tier 1 bandwidth like the rest of us. Why do people think they can get Tier 1 quality for $50 a month? My parents business pays thousands for the type of bandwidth people like you want for $50 a month. Grow the fuck up. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | Re: No way to really know how problematic they are said by Sean:said by DataRiker:said by iansltx:Except when it comes to Comcast's rather high cap 250GB represents about 5 hours of use time on their highest tier. Cox's highest bandwidth tier in our state has no caps. Funny when competing with fiber the technical necessity of caps vaporizes. If you want to use your home connection to run a server, pay for Tier 1 bandwidth like the rest of us. Why do people think they can get Tier 1 quality for $50 a month? My parents business pays thousands for the type of bandwidth people like you want for $50 a month. Grow the fuck up. equating tier 1 service to an uncapped residential connection is beyond dumb.
Why don't you educate me and explain why Cox can offer unlimited plans in fiber areas, but I should be capped in other areas. I would love to hear this........
BTW: just for your info, COX, Fios, And LUS all offer uncapped residential connections. Do you consider them tier 1? | |
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| | just way for the free to go away and then people will hate t just way for the free to go away and then people will hate them. I think some said that one cable systems wants $4/m for them. | |
|  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Actual User Can anyone respond to this thread that actually has one of these devices (or is planning on getting one) that can/will give us an actual review? | |
| | Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Actual User I bought a used Series 3 HD from a coworker to give it a try. First, they sent the tech out with CableCards, but no adapter. He said they do not allow the techs to carry them and they have to be picked up or shipped to the customer. I had to go to the office on a Saturday and reschedule an open appointment for Sunday.
After about 2 hours of the Tivo doing its thing, the tech finally left with a working system. Since, we've had a handful of problems from black channels to "Channel Not Available". I was able to reproduce the black channel problem at the same time on a Time Warner box, so I don't think it was the Tuning Adapter or Tivo's fault. The "Channel Not Available" did require a Tivo reboot to regain access to any digital channels.
My observation so far is that the tuning adapter seems to work fine, but the back end SDV system seems to have isssues at times. Maybe just in my neighborhood, but who knows. | |
|
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Unhappy TA user I owned a Series2 TiVo for many years, and eventually bought a TiVoHD for a second TV. Not long after, TWC in my area rolled out SDV and put a lot of the popular HD channels on their SDV circuit (SciFi HD and Science HD were the two I watched the most) and forced me to get a TA.
Obtaining my first TA wasn't too bad to obtain and setup. However, I quickly noticed that the TA (Cisco STA1520) had become my new weakest link in my TiVo setup. It stopped working every other week, requiring me to restart all my devices to bring it back up. Then every 2 months or so, it just stopped working. I would spend at least an hour on support calls trying to reflash my CableCards to get it to work, and every time I required a TWC tech to visit my house and replace the device.
After my fourth TA bit the dust, I decided enough is enough. TiVo wasn't worth this much work in the end. So I began building a custom HTPC solution (Sage TV using ATSC tuners and HD-PVRs) and gave up TiVo.
It's really sad. The TA boxes generated a great deal of extra heat in my bedroom and were just not as reliable as they should be. They were the undoing of my TiVo experience in the end. I would like to go back to using CableCards if I could, but the TA is a big LOSE for me. Hopefully someone (FCC?) fixes this in the end. | |
| | | | Re: Unhappy TA user what market of TWC are you in? MidOhio? Cinci? Dayton? NEO/WPA, Southeast? | |
| | | | | Re: Unhappy TA user Dayton. | |
|
 bcroninPremium
join:2004-03-27
Hyde Park, NY | Trouble on CableVision at first, but ok now When I first got my Cisco TA's from CableVision they would reboot on a regular basis (which would cause the TiVo to have fits, sometimes even locking up). Over the year I've had them the reboots (and TiVo lockups) have gotten less and less frequent to the point that its not a major issue anymore. I do dislike having to have an extra box and wish there were a better solution. I feel that having to have the tuning adapter puts TiVo at a competitive disadvantage. I suppose the Cable companies like it that way, but its fundamentally unfair.
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bc | |
| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Trouble on CableVision at first, but ok now It's ironic that you said "I feel that having the have the tuning adapter puts TiVo at a competitive disadvantage. I suppose Cable companies like it that way, but its fundamentally unfair."
I'm sure that cable is/would say the same thing that a user-base the size as TiVo on their system as small as they may be in total, would force cable to remain at a competitive disadvantage to other providers like satellite. I'm also sure that the overwhelming majority of cable customers don't want to be kept or forced to be kept behind in technology so a handful of TiVo users can continue to use their boxes.
There are pros and cons on both sides of this argument. While Tivo users like their boxes over cable and they think that they are saving money, (and in some cases some DO) TiVo ultimately can become a thorn in the side of a cable industry that's on a curve in transformation. Personally, I've always felt that tivo users is to cable as ham radio users were to Power delivered broadband.
I personally think that Tivo is a company that bottom feeds on another industry and fights for it's right to exist at the hand at someone else. While Tivo sits back and cries foul, they pull the same stunts of the entity they complain about all the time.
Tivo hasn't had a good lasting relationship with DirecTV, DishNetwork, and now cable, comcast in particular. ... ever wonder why? .. they want control. They are kind of the apple of video services.
When ever cable wants to change their plants, they take all responsibility in replacing customer equipment. Tivo SELLS the customer the equipment and then creates a monthly subscription to continue to generate revenue making them more of a 'service provider' and not a hardware manufacturer.
Bottom line is that Tivo can't exist these days with out cable, satellite, or fiber systems.. they need to start rethinking their strategy on not only how they're going to adapt and handle the quickly changing video business, or get out of their Cybil mentality of "we sell hardware, no, we sell a service, no, we sell hardware".. and stop whining and realize they need to adapt to keep up and stop thinking that if they're going to survive like a parasite on a host that the host is going to always be the same moving forward.
Yes, Tivo is much at fault and took some risks in their business model and needs to take some responsibility in this. You can't sell a piece of equipment that depends on something else to work, and expect that the industry is going to keep up with you.
My two cents. | |
|
Azlen
join:2010-05-03
Peoria, AZ | Works ok for me, but still would like a better solution I'm in Phoenix and have Cox Cable with a Tivo Premier and a Cisco Tuning Adapter. The first TA that was installed didn't work at all, but the second one has worked fairly well. It's the type of thing that should do what it needs to do transparently and ideally you shouldn't love it or hate it, you should be able to completely ignore it.
I have had to reboot it every once in awhile, but for the most part it does what it's supposed to do and doesn't require any attention. I would still like a more transparent solution to the problem that didn't require a second box. | |
| xirianPremium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
kudos:1 | Works fine for me but Mine has been working fine (Cablevision/TivoHD), but theres still the problem with it only being able to tune two channels at once. This isn't a problem with the tivo, But I was considering the 3 tuner moxi and a moxi mate for my mother until I read that it would be stuck on 2 tuner if you plug in a Cisco tuning adapter. Apparently the moto tuning adapters don't have this stupid limitation. | |
| | | Time Warner tuning adapter I'm in the same boat as the other user, where Tuning Adapter is the weakest link. While I don't quite have the same amount of troubles, TA does go wonky every once in a while with turning some channels blank. But usually comes back a bit later, and in worst case I just reboot it.
I think Tivo should just sign up more cable providers to use their interface/hardware directly instead of demanding internet-based control of SDV. They (Tivo) screwed up their business plan from the very beginning and now simply don't want to admit it and ask cable companies for help. Given their user base is not growing enough to provide them with increased revenue I don't think they have any choice.
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Hyperom: Rants about life, politics, technology | |
| | | | Re: Time Warner tuning adapter It takes their so-called techs multiple visits just to get a cable card working. Add in the tuning adapter, and it's a total disaster.
The cable companies do not want any equipment on their system but their own which they can rent to you. They want to make it hell for anybody who tries to use a Tivo, Moxi, or similar piece of equipment. I was a TivoHD user but just dropped cable TV completely in favor of satellite. Satellite requires a proprietary receiver but at least it's a piece of equipment worth renting -- unlike anything the cable company has. | |
| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Time Warner tuning adapter said by mlcarson:It takes their so-called techs multiple visits just to get a cable card working. Add in the tuning adapter, and it's a total disaster. The cable companies do not want any equipment on their system but their own which they can rent to you. They want to make it hell for anybody who tries to use a Tivo, Moxi, or similar piece of equipment. I was a TivoHD user but just dropped cable TV completely in favor of satellite. Satellite requires a proprietary receiver but at least it's a piece of equipment worth renting -- unlike anything the cable company has. Cable is trying to meet the demands of customers by investing and upgrading it's system.. it's more than just video. There are customers that still want competition to current phone providers.. customers want faster internet, they want more HD. Sooooo, you say that (in the same posting) that they don't want you to have any equipment unless you rent it? You do realize that until just recently, and in current days, more than 50% of cable customers didn't even have a cable box, right?
The conspiracy theory that cable doesn't want other equipment is an old and failed one. Tivo has been around for years doing just that. Some models of Tivo would interface directly with the DCT2000 box via a cable connection even.
The SDV complaint is just the next step in the evolution of the back and forth between cable/satellite and tivo. Maybe people will understand why satellite ditched their relationship with Tivo. Tivo has their in with cable at the hand of the government.. kind of a mandate. On the other hand, too, tivo customers need to realize what cable has said for years.. "when technology changes, a phone call will get you an upgrade at their expense, not yours".. where's Tivo, the DVR service when something changes? .. quick to sell you another piece of hardware that only works if you pay them to use it - even though it's perfectly capable of operating WITH OUT their service.. right?
I don't disagree with some points you say, however, you're trying to make an assesment and place blame solely at the feet of cable when Tivo has MUCH to be at fault for. I wonder where Tivo is with disclaiming that "Your purchase of a Tivo box today does not guarantee that it will function with all current cable company offerings. Tivo cannot guarantee that your equipment will work at all times in the future".. afterall, this is the land of disclaimers.  .. they won't do this.. they SHOULD do this as by not they are being ingeniousness because Tivo can't guarantee that their box will always work. And, I really doubt the government is going to retard an entire industry so that a VERY SMALL amount of Tivo users will have uninterrupted use of their box. | |
|
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... ...sitting in a box in my closet. The thought that I needed to add another box to my already crowded TV stand and plug in another unit to my already crowded power strip really made my decision for me. I am willing to sacrifice a couple of the stupid SDV channels that CV is forcing on us to enjoy my TiVO over the SA8300 with archaic programming guide, slow response, and small hard drive.
These tuning adapters are terrible ideas, and even if they work people want LESS boxes, not more! Its idiotic that this bs continues to go on when there are real and simple solutions easily available. | |
| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... So what is this real and simple solution?
Cable makes no changes?
Cable finds another way to enhance their system.. I know, FTTH, right? I'm sure that's simple and easy.
How about Tivo make and sell another box capable of dealing with SDV inside the box. I bet the TiVo users would LOVE to be told that they're going to have to shell out a few more hundred dollars to upgrade.
Do you have another simple and easily available solution? ...I think when you think about this for a while, you're going to find out that it's not going to be cheap, it's not going to be simple, or easy, and while there are some pissed off tivo users, you're going to find that some of the easy solutions you may be thinking of are going to be a MAJOR PITA to existing customers who have no desire in Tivo..
I'm not saying there are not other solutions, but the big mistake people make is making a claim of how simple and easy things are to do... the BIGGEST hurdle you ALWAYS have, other than cost, is trying not to piss off your customers in the process. | |
| | |  rv65Happy EndPremium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1 | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... Tivo's can use an IP connection as the return path. RCN is doing it for VOD on their Tivo boxes, but the cableco's don't want it, but Tivo and Public Knowledge want it. It would still rely on QAM's but Motorola is announcing a Hosted SDV solution for other cableco's which leads me to believe that this is indeed possible to have an IP return path. It would also allow 3 tuner Moxi users the ability to use their 3rd tuner. | |
| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... Sorry, but I think that's a horrible option. One reason I enjoy my cable TV the way it is, is because when it works, it works. When my HSI goes out, I lose my phone. When my phone is out, chances are that the HSI is out.
In the last several years, I've had zero video outages. The last thing I really care to have is a stable platform for video become IP dependent in any form.
While it MAY be possible, at what expense? And how much is Tivo willing to pipe up $$ wise to ensure they get what they want? ... or are they going to continue to get the government to make a playing field that works for them.
I agree that I'd like to see more options, but where my disconnection remains is at who's expense and for who's benefit. I still see a company like Tivo as a parasite in it's existence that relies on a host to survive. Tivo has no other source of revenue other than cable, for the most part, or the other players (like satellite)... Tivo is unlike motorola or S/A even which have other divisions where income in generated. There is just WAY too much motivation for Tivo to get their way out of the cable industry to survive. You'll notice that the closest Tivo ever got to cable was to do a joint software venture.. they've not developed a cable box/unit "for sale" to cable have they? of course not as it's probably not as profitable. This, to be honest, was their major mistake.
I just still have many issues with Tivo and their business model. All one ever hears is how cable, an industry that built itself out on it's own dime, must constantly cater to everyone else who wants a piece of their business and have no major investment into it. | |
| | | | | rv65Happy EndPremium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1 | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... Cableco's are planning on moving to IPTV and use DOCSIS for the return path. Many newer boxes have this feature, but the cableco's aren't using it. The RCN return path requires their internet connection, so it's definitely possible. If a Cableco can use an embedded modem inside a STB, then why can't a 3rd party device use IP to access the cable system? Outages happen all the time, and that is with QAM as well. I would expect an IP system to be fairly redundant. Tivo wants providers to make it redundant. Cable is eventually going to migrate to IPTV. | |
| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... Okay... take a look at what I was saying again.. right now, it's not as "simple" as you make it. RCN has a VERY small footprint, subscriber wise. They hardly have anything that Comcast or TWC have.. even COX. Cable boxes have had DOCSIS cable modems in them for many years now.
As it stands, the current return path is more stable than IP based return path. (see above) Also, it takes rebuilding every head end at a very expensive expense, and to be honest, while they can do it "for TiVo".. um, again, as I said, Tivo is a parasite of a business.. why should comcast fork out the money to appease Tivo? Of course tivo has their desires and wishes.. however, you need to take their halo off that you're putting on them as Tivo isn't exactly a angel of a company themselves.. they really have nothing more than a concept patented, they've sued people over and over for "a concept".. they sell equipment to the end user that has the capability to be used with out a forced subscription rate, thus making them a service provider themselves..
Sure, Tivo has their desires, but I'm sure the cable industry has theirs too. In this situation, the fact that tivo brings nothing to the table of this game, I hardly don't think that they're in much of a position to 'want" anything.. of course they can, as they have no risk what so ever in the game.
And yes, cable MAY eventually migrate to IPTV.. comcast has been talking about it all the way to 2000, however, it's not happened, yet. Its hard to say where they are going right now.. they also said they'd be running fiber to every home back in the early 2000's too, but as technology advances, so does their ability to use their existing hybrid fiber network to deliver more than what they thought was possible back 10 years ago... so really, it's hard to say when or even if they will continue with the whole IPTV thing.. right now they're delivering a heck of a lot of programming.. I really am not sure if we're going to see the need to increase capacity to, well, infinity for the near future. But to say "eventually going to..." while that's a safe bet, it's not always a guaranteed bet. | |
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2 edits | @fiberguy.
Ever compared an SA8300HD to a TiVo with CableCARD support? No you haven't obviously. Or you would see that a TiVo actually has more features, better software, and is more responsive.
"But it doesn't have OnDemand". It has Netflix, which costs less.
TiVo pays for its self compared to a set-top rental after 2 years if you enjoy HD content.
And as for your remark about IP based tuning, you think it's a bad idea... ARE YOU KIDDING ME.
No seriously...
Why do people discuss an IP based solution? Because the current 14 (FOURTEEN) year old DAVIC code base the MSOs operate off of is closed and proprietary. So they WILL NOT allow TiVo to impliment a method to tune over it. Hence you use IP. IP is also part of Tru2Way...
But I bet you think Tru2Way is also not needed, pointless, and bottom feeding.
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HATE TIVO. It's forcing the Cable industry to COMPETE...
I guess ONLY Sony should make Blu-ray players. And anyone else who makes Blu-ray players are bottom feeders.
You'll also notice the closer TiVo get's to having it's way. The closer we get to open standards? OMFG NO WAYZ OPEN STANDARDS MAKING MORE CONSUMER HARDWARE CHOICES, DROPPING PRICES AND CREATING DIVERSITY THROUGH COMPETITION!?
TEH BUSINESS MODELS MAKES NO SENSE, IT IS ARMAGEDDON FOR CUSTOMERS..
That's how you sound. | |
| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... said by DrThodt:@fiberguy. You're talking out your ass. Ever compared an SA8300HD to a TiVo with CableCARD support? No you haven't obviously. Or you would see that a TiVo actually has more features, better software, and is more responsive. "But it doesn't have OnDemand". It has Netflix, which costs less. TiVo pays for its self compared to a set-top rental after 2 years if you enjoy HD content. And as for your remark about IP based tuning, you think it's a bad idea... ARE YOU KIDDING ME. No seriously... Why do people discuss an IP based solution? Because the current 14 (FOURTEEN) year old DAVIC code base the MSOs operate off of is closed and proprietary. So they WILL NOT allow TiVo to impliment a method to tune over it. Hence you use IP. IP is also part of Tru2Way... But I bet you think Tru2Way is also not needed, pointless, and bottom feeding. Your replies make me hate life, they're based entirely out of reason. For god only knows what reason. But they make zero sense, and scream "fanboy". I mean really, HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HATE TIVO. It's forcing the Cable industry to COMPETE... I guess ONLY Sony should make Blu-ray players. And anyone else who makes Blu-ray players are bottom feeders. You'll also notice the closer TiVo get's to having it's way. The closer we get to open standards? OMFG NO WAYZ OPEN STANDARDS MAKING MORE CONSUMER HARDWARE CHOICES, DROPPING PRICES AND CREATING DIVERSITY THROUGH COMPETITION!? TEH BUSINESS MODELS MAKES NO SENSE, IT IS ARMAGEDDON FOR CUSTOMERS.. That's how you sound. Anger management anyone?
Um, sony isn't a bottom feeding company - they sell plenty of other products and services.
True2Way, a technology, isn't 'bottom feeding'..
Tivo, a company that has NO other business line other than a DVR that isn't even just hardware, in fact, REQUIRES a subscription to be used, and the overwhelming majority of consumers that have them subscribe to a pay tv service.. um, yea.. that's bottom feeding.. that's also parasitic. (A parasite can't survive without a host - look at the definition of both)
Tivo can't generate a subscription or hardware sale with out that of cable, and sometimes satellite.
Tivo has lost it's agreements with both DirecTV and Dish - ever wonder why? They force their ways into every industry they take part in and make demands that their business model can't cash.
I also never said I "hate" tivo.. hate has a pretty strong meaning... I don't take sides nor cheerlead (such as what you're doing right now) because you clearly can't see the basics of what I'm saying, which are tangible.
You let your emotions dictate you instead of applying logic. From what I see from you, "Tivo good, can do no wrong.. cable bad, they're cable"..
Don't bet.. don't put words into someone's mouth, don't assume.. stick to the facts. My opinions are mine..
And no one died and make tivo the great pioneers of "change"... they've failed many times over.. you can't be a winner when you put out a product that you expect should last and not be outdated as the rest of technology passes you by.. with that notion, maybe we should stick with analog TV because there are a small handful of users out there that just want basic cable.
think about it.. and really, leave the flames and personal attacks out of your post. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: CV with a TiVO and a Tuning Adapter... @fiberguy.
yeah baseless statements make me angry when you're yapping to sound elitist.
You have made no actual rebuttal against TiVo based in uhm, what are those things called? Facts...
"TiVo makes you pay for service that requires updates. How awful  "
No Seriously let's get back to comparing set-tops... You completely disregarded that because you don't have a leg to stand on.
You also have zero understanding of cable history. Because the "bottom feeder" arguments were the same used against Cable back in "the day".
You have obvious tunnel vision. Sorry you think it's a "personal attack". But SOMEONE had to point out how blatantly incorrect you are.
Microsoft must be bottom feeders also.
Damn that MCE! Recording things that only cable should be allowed to record. Because it's not like YOU pay to access it or anything. So YOU have no say in it.
I also like how you ignored the part where you were downplaying ip tuning, despite the fact it's part of Tru2Way...
I guess Tru2Way isn't needed is it?
TiVo has made cable more open to the consumer. Guess that's turriblez. | |
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| | | | | | bus7821
join:2003-08-07
San Pedro, CA
1 edit | @fiberguy
Every company/industry which has ever bundled products and services together has fought to prevent competition for any part of the package. So far your arguments look like nothing but business as usual.
You cite Tivo’s difficulties with sat companies as evidence of something wrong with Tivo. I have no inside knowledge of the negotiations, but from what I read in the trades I see no evidence of anything but the typical preference for keeping all of the profit from one’s own inferior product over making less from letting an outsider carve out a piece of the pie. Reports suggest that Tivo’s previous management may have driven too hard a bargain over this, but that isn’t a fundamental argument against unbundling. If you have knowledge of something more that was going on here, please specify -- otherwise I don’t think this is much of a point for your case.
SDV is a necessary and logical thing, but I have to wonder if the adapter is artificially kludgy thanks to the actions of the cable industry. Are you willing to claim that it, along with Cablecards and Tru2way are honest efforts to open things up rather than give the illusion of open architecture for dumb regulators? We need look no further than the firewire interface to find an example of a requirement sabotaged by the cable industry (and which failure the industry now tries to spin as proof that the requirement was bogus.)
One point of sympathy that I do have for cable is the interference of the entertainment and broadcast industries in all of this. Even if one genuinely wanted to design an open architecture for a cable system, it would be difficult in the face of pressure from these other industries to keep various parts of it crippled or closed. | |
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| | | | I heard tivo is coming out with a true 2 way box soon, cant wait. | |
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| | | Before long it's not going to be just a few stupid channels, it's going to be ALL of the channels.
I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but from a cable operator's standpoint, they're making the service better for the 98% of its users that DO NOt have a TiVo. So...easy decision on their part. I know Charter will provide you with a free TA as long as you have their serviuce. Or if you opt to get an HD box instead, you get it free for one year. That's what I did.
But they didn't know I haven't used my tivo in two years. Shhhhhh. | |
| | |  BryanInPHXPremium
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:1
·Cox HSI
4 edits | Cisco TA 2-Tuner Limitation said by Feramors:Before long it's not going to be just a few stupid channels, it's going to be ALL of the channels. I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but from a cable operator's standpoint, they're making the service better for the 98% of its users that DO NOt have a TiVo. So...easy decision on their part. I know Charter will provide you with a free TA as long as you have their serviuce. Or if you opt to get an HD box instead, you get it free for one year. That's what I did. For Cox Phoenix subscribers the current number of SDV channels is 151 (One Hundred Fifty-One), So it isn't just a few unwatched channels. Most all new HD channel additions have been added on SDV.
To me an HD DVR is now considered a necessity and a long term commitment. The idea of having to lease a DVR from the cable co. for the long term, simply does not make sense. I would at the very least like to see Cable Cos be required to make their DVRs/STBs available for sale to subscribers (if they so choose) and then no longer charge the $10.00/mo DVR service fee. When Cable Broadband was first introduced the cable modem was only available on a leased basis from the cable co, now there is a thriving retail cable modem market. The same path needs to be followed for retail HD DVRs. Would consumers put up with having the only option of a lease on any other retail consumer product? Where is the consumer backlash? Most seem to be very complacent.
I have never been a fan of TiVo or their subscription fee. I did seriously consider a 3-Tuner Moxi and a Mate or two. But the Fact that the Cisco STA1520 TA neuters the 3-Tuner Moxi to just 2-Tuners has put the brakes on that purchase. An IP based SDV tuning solution should be implemented so retail HD DVRs can compete fairly with Cable Co equipment. An open standard IP solution would be less expensive in the long term than continuing to provide free TA's and addressing the need to update the 2-Tuner Cisco TA. If a CableCARD is able to support 5 or 6 Tuners then the TA should also be required to support the same number of tuners.
ARRIS the parent company of Moxi certainly is not a "Bottom Feeder" in fact they rank right up there with Cisco and Motorola. Yet ARRIS in their own filling to the FCC dated June 14, 2010, responding to Proceeding Number: 97-80 , 00-67 and 10-91 »fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/v···15649573 made no mention of the fact that the current Cisco SDV-TA limited the ARRIS/Moxi HD DVR and it’s customers to the use and availability of only two (2) of the 3 Tuners. This fact was simply omitted when ARRIS stated “Once the Tuning Adapters are placed in service, they work in providing Moxi customers with access to SDV channels and give them the experience and functionality they expect from the UDCP.” (This broad assumption simply cannot be made, and is a false assumption.)
ARRIS Quote: "About five percent of Moxi DVRs are deployed with Tuning Adapters." (That percentage will grow significantly as more Cable Operators begin deploying SDV. That percentage will also grow as more consumers discover the 3 Tuner Moxi HD DVR.)
ARRIS Quote: "Once the Tuning Adapters are placed in service, they work in providing Moxi customers with access to SDV channels and give them the experience and functionality they expect from the UDCP." (ARRIS made that statement to the FCC, Knowing full well the Cisco SDV-TA did not support 3-Tuners, and as many more Cable Providers, utilizing Cisco headends, start to implement SDV in markets that do not currently use SDV, Moxi customers will not have "the experience and functionality they expect from the UDCP." )
Full text of my FCC Filing: »fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/v···15691557
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Cox Premier HSI, SB6120, DIR-628, XPSP3 Pro, Win7 Toshiba Satellite A505-S6973
SA8240HDC DVR, SARA v1.90.5.a113, My Moxi purchase on Hold for now due to SDV...
External eSATA DVR Expander, WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS, Direct Connection | |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | skyping Can someone explain why only the Tuning Adapters only work with Tivo and no other CC devices? Is this the skyping of Cablecards (so called disruptive technology being neutered by its makers in agreement with the incumbent competition)? | |
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1 edit | Re: skyping @patcat88.
Because SDV is proprietary. So you have to pay for access to develop for it. | |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| IP The adapters work with other devices, including the Ceton cards when they come out.
SDV is a generally good technology, and it will allow programming to be delivered as if everything is ON-Demand, and with small nodes, will give a cable system literally unlimited capacity.
With SDV, there is no reason to have anything more than local HD and expanded basic SD (for DTA's) sent all of the time.
What I'd like to know is why can't the cable operators just allow control over the internet? They would just need a way for the TiVo to connect to their servers, and control the SDV streams from there. The first SDV channel change would be absolutely glacial, but after that, they shouldn't be that bad. Besides, TiVo fanatics don't really change channels, that's done for them, and they just watch the recordings. | |
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