Gbcue Premium Member join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 5:47 pm
How Accurate?That's the real question. | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 6:28 pm
Re: How Accurate?said by Gbcue:That's the real question. Another question is how accurate are the tools used by the customers themselves to verify accuracy of the Cox tool? I suspect the router based tools are all over the place in accuracy. | |
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Re: How Accurate?Not really, though Comcast's meter is more conservative than DD-WRT.
Keep in mind that we're measuring WAN-LAN + LAN-WAN bits here so the question is which layers of overhead (TCP vs. IP vs. MAC) you're including in your data amount. Then whether you measure at a given level is, quite literally, binary. | |
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| | | SpaethCoDigital Plumber MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN |
Re: How Accurate?said by iansltx:Not really, though Comcast's meter is more conservative than DD-WRT. That's because Comcast's meter is using unicast octets in/out, whereas DD-WRT by default is counting *ALL* octets in/out. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 5:48 pm
The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.Greed is not good.
We see it everywhere. | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
dvd536
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 6:05 pm
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by KrK:Greed is not good. Unless you're the CxO! | |
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to KrK
Cox isn't charging overages. This is network bottlenecking, sure, but greed? Meh. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 7:35 pm
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.It's not just about overage charges. It's about how you can use your Internet, and what you will and will not be allowed to do now, but more importantly, in the future.
If we actually had real competition here this wouldn't be an issue. We don't. It is. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.How do you suggest real competition happen? Would you invest in a company catering to high usage customers? | |
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| | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 9:53 pm
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.You call them high usage customers, but they're all really just customers, and I'm sure they'll call us all high usage customers soon.
None of this would be a problem is there was a competitive market that encouraged companies to compete for customer's dollars (and therefore, upgrade regularly) and win them via value added services and support. Instead we have a situation where you can "punish" people for _________. (Insert reason here).... and pretend the "choice" to going to capped wireless or dial up is actually a choice.
Monopoly/Duopoly. Same result.
And yes, there are ways to lower barriers to entry. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.Again, would you be willing to invest in an ISP who caters to customers who use 300 GB of data per month, on average?
How would you encourage investment in such a company? | |
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| | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-7 1:38 am
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.Yes, because they'd take over quick, but only if the lobbyist incumbent trench-hold on Washington D.C. was broken. Otherwise they'd never have a chance. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.So you're saying that you're going to wait until Texas enters an ice age for your mythical uncapped, fast, reliable, cheap Internet access because that's how long it'll be before lobbyists pack their bags in DC. But as I was saying, what are you going to do about your Internet situation now? Posting responses to my responses isn't enough P.S. The lobbyist incumbent trench-hold hasn't stopped Grande Communications, EPBFi, Sonic.net, RCN or a double-handful of other companies from becoming a third pipe (ranging in quality from decent to excellent) in areas where cable and telephone service from The Cable Guy and Ma Bell already are. It can be done, but, again, posting here won't do it. For starters, figure out how much territory you can cover by putting a DSLAM in the local CO, or a radio cluster on the local water tower if becoming a CLEC isn't your cup of coffee. | |
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| | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-7 6:49 am
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.So, your point is, everything is just fine, move along... OR start your own company.
Thanks for the tips. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by KrK:OR start your own company. Isn't that exactly how the type of competition you are seeking becomes reality? I think that iansltx has a good point...if we don't like it we can start our own ISP and do it better | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.Its only a valid point if you ignore the true problem. Corporatism and the barriers it places on competition.
South Korea and Japan have effectively removed the greed out of broadband ( and health care ).
They have what amounts to a mutualistic symbiotic relationship between core network providers who have forced line sharing and ISP's who ride the network.
You literally have companies lining up to provide both. No cap BS, low prices, and super amounts of competition. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.How many separate fiber infrastructures are running in Pusan? How about Fukushima? How many network providers are running on those physical networks?
Also, keep in mind that companies in the US have done the same thing. They just aren't in your area. The current regulatory environment doesn't actually preclude that kind of competition. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by iansltx:How many separate fiber infrastructures are running in Pusan? How about Fukushima? How many network providers are running on those physical networks?
Also, keep in mind that companies in the US have done the same thing. They just aren't in your area. The current regulatory environment doesn't actually preclude that kind of competition. I had about 6 providers to choose from that I KNEW about. Double that easily if you include cellular. Double that again if you speak Korean. Can't speak for Japan, but I've heard its similar. How many do you have here? I have either RR cable or slow ATT dsl and I don't even consider the DSL broadband. | |
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to bbeesley
said by bbeesley:I think that iansltx has a good point...if we don't like it we can start our own ISP and do it better Not in corporate America. Some have successfully fallen through the cracks, but they are the exceptions and not the rule. Corporatism is so severe in the US, unless you have numerous high level connections with Politicians and Competitors your dead in the water before you even begin. The odds are stacked against the non mega corps. | |
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| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
to bbeesley
Nope. You assume we have a free market. We don't. | |
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to KrK
I didn't say everything was fine. I did say either start your own company or convince someone else to do so if that's what it takes. It's America, remember? | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by iansltx:I didn't say everything was fine. I did say either start your own company or convince someone else to do so if that's what it takes. It's America, remember? This is a great "feel good" straw-man argument for competition. Unless your a well connected Mega-Corp with an army of attorneys and political influence forget it. Of course, there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. No way around it with out removing the greed from Broadband like South Korea or Japan. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed....so you're going to complain that an exception isn't available in your neighborhood...and that's it, right? | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by iansltx:...so you're going to complain that an exception isn't available in your neighborhood...and that's it, right? So where off the question of how many ISP's I had available? I answered your question, how about answering mine? America is approaching broadband very very wrong, and for the life of me I can't understand why your defending it. I can only assume you've never traveled around Asia? Even south east Asia, like Vietnam is rapidly becoming well connected with fast and dirt cheap access. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.I'm not defending the state of American broadband. I just don't want to have to move to Asia, Chattanooga or the Bay area to get high quality, uncapped, reasonably priced 'net access...and I'm trying to brainstorm how to get from here to there. | |
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to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:[ Unless your a well connected Mega-Corp with an army of attorneys and political influence forget it.
sorry, but I have a problem accepting that in light of actual experience seeing small ISPs build exactly these type of networks sure, they may not have the money or pull to get a franchise agreement to build out a large area all at once but there are many ISPs who are successfully building competitive networks (I even know of one example of a town where a fiber overbuilder actually drove the incumbent cable company to build fiber to the home due to their competitive introduction) My boss actually has service in the North Texas area from a local farmer who decided he wanted high-speed Internet so he has built out a nice little wi-fi network that covers his small town and he runs it on the side. Providing service to his neighbors helps fund his own high speed access. if you or anyone is unhappy with your ISP, then build a network to serve your neighborhood and get your neighbors to buy into the investment as a collective or provide a better service that they are willing to pay for...it is not impossible and it doesn't take the permission of the government to do so. | |
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| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2011-Sep-7 5:43 pm
Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by bbeesley:sorry, but I have a problem accepting that in light of actual experience seeing small ISPs build exactly these type of networks .... in areas the big boys don't care about and aren't blocking. I think there are areas--- markets the big players consider not worth their time--- that this works great in, more power to them. Try building a fiber network in a city with Telco and Cable incumbents, however.... Hell they won't even let *the city* build their own networks. (Munis) | |
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to bbeesley
said by bbeesley:said by DataRiker:[ Unless your a well connected Mega-Corp with an army of attorneys and political influence forget it.
My boss actually has service in the North Texas area from a local farmer who decided he wanted high-speed Internet so he has built out a nice little wi-fi network that covers his small town and he runs it on the side. Providing service to his neighbors helps fund his own high speed access. Try this in a city and get back to me. Your so far out of touch its not even funny. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by DataRiker Try this in a city and get back to me.
Your so far out of touch its not even funny. I have worked in the telecom industry for 25 years, including 14 years at the Director level at a cable company as well as stints at two startup ISPs, I have a Master's in Telecommunications Policy, and I continue to do research on the Broadband industry as part of my current position, so I feel that I have a fairly decent grasp of the regulatory and operational aspects of this subject but hey..thanks for the opinion (btw...it's "you're")
I have actually considered doing what you propose and starting an ISP - especially now that I am no longer under a non-compete agreement for this area with my employer - but at the moment, I am not certain I want to take on that effort...if I do I will get back to you. | |
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| | | | | | | | BotenAnna Premium Member join:2011-07-19 Fullerton, CA |
to iansltx
Uncapped fast, reliable internet connections exist in other countries, why can't they exist here? | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by BotenAnna:Uncapped fast, reliable internet connections exist in other countries, why can't they exist here? For the exact same reason we don't have cheap and fast public transportation and bullet trains. Corporatism. Plain and simple. It has a strangle hold over our regulations. | |
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Re: The USA racing to the bottom at warp speed.said by DataRiker:Corporatism. Plain and simple. It has a strangle hold over our regulations. I have to agree with you that special interest groups are influencing regulation and making it imperfect - I actually had this argument with my Telecom Regulations professor back in the day and finally convinced him that regulatory balance could never be achieved because the regulatory bodies themselves were influenced by outside forces....he was a former FCC guy who used to believe that regulation could achieve market balance. There are three reasons I think that will always make regulations imperfect 1. Corporate influence - corporations have a vested interest in regulations being drafted to ensure they still make a profit - or in some cases, even make more 2. Consumer influence - consumers are not rational..they want everything for nothing so they drive the regulators to do things that make it tough to build and operate networks 3. The regulators themselves - they don't understand the technology they are regulating leading them to presume that either 1 or 2 is the correct group to follow when in reality something more balanced would probably be appropriate. Nobody is ever going to get exactly what they want from regulatory interference and history shows us that (at least here in the U.S.) regulations generally have as many negative side effects as positive intent. | |
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Usage Meter is a one sided storyHow does the subscriber protect themselves from false readings or errors in the data? I have been looking for an at home internal way of monitoring my bandwidth and the types of data being used on my network. I wouldn't mind buying a different router that had this service built into it. I have looked at Open WRT and PRTG but would prefer a turn key solution if anyone has any suggestions. | |
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MerinXCrunching for Cures Premium Member join:2011-02-03 |
MerinX
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 5:57 pm
SillynessYou can only use this much Internets! | |
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They're running out of Internets!See fools! Look at what you've done. The Internet well is going dry. Grab your pitchforks and torches! There's going to be an Internet shortage! | |
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DrexBeer...The other white meat. Premium Member join:2000-02-24 Not There |
Drex
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 6:54 pm
Nawlins tooBuddy of mine in New Orleans got the email today. He said he'll have to start doing his "downloading" from work. | |
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If you are ok with this...then you must be a Cox sucker. | |
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Sonic.netReally wish I got Sonic Net in my area.... | |
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banner Premium Member join:2003-11-07 Long Beach, CA |
banner
Premium Member
2011-Sep-6 9:32 pm
save the bandwidth, conserve bytes"Sign up today and save" = "Sign up today and conserve" | |
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skittles13
Anon
2011-Sep-6 10:10 pm
What Bandwidth meter?Can someone tell me where the Bandwidth meter is?
I have never logged into or even read a Cox email heck not even sure I have one?(an email address that is) Do I? does one come with an account if you have not requested one or even set up a username or a password?
Thanks folks!
Does Qwest or whatever it is called have usage limits? | |
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fester join:2005-10-03 Purcellville, VA |
fester
Member
2011-Sep-6 10:49 pm
Bandwidth capThis cap will easily be crushed by anyone who has a Netflix streaming account. I hope Cox will take another look at these caps and up the ante to say 400GB per month. | |
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| flbas1 join:2010-02-03 Fort Lauderdale, FL |
flbas1
Member
2011-Sep-7 8:44 am
Re: Bandwidth captoo much work; easier to just charge caps | |
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wings10I Am Legend Premium Member join:2004-06-09 South Elgin, IL |
wings10
Premium Member
2011-Sep-8 1:57 pm
They will all have it.When will people realise that everyone will have usage caps. | |
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