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Cox: What Bandwidth Crunch?
Company says 1Ghz upgrades, Doc 3.0 have things covered...
by Karl Bode 11:01AM Saturday Oct 25 2008
Cox is upgrading its network to 1Ghz equipment across its entire customer base. The upgrade (and this is even before we get into DOCSIS 3.0) will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels from 8 to 100+. It will also allow the provider to offer tiers of 25Mbps/4Mbps for relatively little dough. Jay Rolls, Cox’s senior vice president of technology, tells Multichannel News that between 1Ghz upgrades, switched digital video, and DOCSIS 3.0, cable is "on the cusp" of conquering bandwidth worries "for at least the next 10 years."

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Gogo1

join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY

Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

"DOCSIS 3.0) will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+"

Bit pointless when only enough decent content is made to fill about five hours (generous) of air time a week across all time slots and all channels. What will they do with the other 33595 TV hours? Reruns? Infomercials?

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

said by Gogo1:

Bit pointless when only enough decent content is made to fill about five hours (generous) of air time a week across all time slots and all channels. What will they do with the other 33595 TV hours? Reruns? Infomercials?
If you like sports, there are many more hours of HD available than that.
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needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through

join:2001-05-02
La Place, LA

1 recommendation

It sure doesn't take long for someone to crap on what seems like a pretty good-news story. What equates to qulaity air time is completely subjective. Heck, opinions in our home vary from me, my wife and my two kids. Myself; I am looking forward to more HD programming. I love movies in HD. More speed? Bring it on, baby!
--
Great success! High five!

AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Time Warner Cable
If it was me, I would install the Vyyo Inc 3 Ghz spectrum overlay. It would effectively upgrade the cable system to 3 Ghz without having to rebuild the cable systems.

In some areas, Cox is deploying it, »www.cable360.net/ct/news/thewire/22781.html .

That would allow for quite a bit more channel bonding as well.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

said by AMDUSER:

If it was me, I would install the Vyyo Inc 3 Ghz spectrum overlay. It would effectively upgrade the cable system to 3 Ghz without having to rebuild the cable systems.

In some areas, Cox is deploying it, »www.cable360.net/ct/news/thewire/22781.html .

That would allow for quite a bit more channel bonding as well.
Thanks! Can you please give a couple of sentences that puts this into meaning for those of us who are on the primer? What exactly is happening here?
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AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Time Warner Cable

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

What this does is add quite a bit of capacity to the cable system. It doubles downstream capacity and adding four times the amount of upstream bandwidth.[Depending on how it is setup .] The other part about it, is that it will work with existing equipment. There is some work needed, like amps and cable taps changed to a 3 Ghz capable one, and some equipment at the headend will have to be added.

This would add room for quite a bit of HD, faster internet, and more channels without upgrading to FTTP.
It is also considerable less, $125 per home passed, vs. $1,500 - $2,000 for FTTP.

»www.lightreading.com/document.as···id=85046 .

This may help explain it, better than I can..
»vyyo.myspin.com/assets/flash/spe···lay.html

imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI

1 edit
Just curious, have you looked into how that works? From what I just read, it's that same ultra-wideband crap that's flopped a bunch of times. They don't upgrade the whole network to 3Ghz, rather it overlays and injects data at certain points in the network.

anonimuz

@shawcable.net

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

All they are doing is putting in 3Ghz passives. In other words, mainline splitters and taps. The plant is still at the mercy of their actives (amplifiers), which stated is 1 Ghz. It'll be a while before they start mass producing 3 Gig amps.

Fubar16

join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

The attenuation that 3ghz signal would cause would require all plant to be rebuilt to compensate....

It' can get bad enough on a 750 plant I would hate to be at the end of a line on a 3ghz plant....
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

Correct.

Now to another point. I think sometimes that people need to stop reading b2b press releases for their information. The 3ghz gear is trying to be pushed to gain sales. It's a pure business move of someone trying to hawk their gear. In the real world, as to where it means anything to the consumer, it's not being implemented because it's a huge mess for cable operators to implement. (as you said above)

This just brings us back to the "it works in the lab, but lets see it in the field" point.

Smokey
I'd rather be skiing
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West
Wasn't Cox talking about deploying that on just a "few select" plant runs? Mainly bushiness areas to bring down the costs to service medium businesses?
--
Para Bellum!!

Fubar16

join:2001-02-20
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:2

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

said by Smokey:

Wasn't Cox talking about deploying that on just a "few select" plant runs? Mainly bushiness areas to bring down the costs to service medium businesses?
3ghz? Not that I ever heard...

tschmidt
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join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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Reviews:
·G4 Communications
said by Gogo1:

Bit pointless when only enough decent content is made to fill about five hours
Cable bandwidth not only delivers TV but also data.

Increasing upper end from 750 or 850MHZ to 1000 substantially increases capacity that can be used for multiple purposes.

Each 6 MHZ channel deliver about 40 Mbps.

1)DOCSIS 3 allows MSO to bond multiple channels to increase transfer rate.
2) HDTV requires a little under 20 Mbps
3) SDTV about 3 Mbps.

As programming migrates to HDTV format it puts strain on cable plant capacity.

Switching can be layered on top of this making video on demand feasible.

Personally I'd rather see they migrate to a fiber centric outside plant rather then take another interim step. That said this is a significant increase in capacity.

/tom

noneyabidness

@comcast.net

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

Why not just abandon separate HD/SDTV and DOCSIS channels altogether and convert everything to DOCSIS?

Television programming could be handled by IPTV either through an MSO's established service or third parties.

In essence, you sell bandwidth (in conjunction with preconfigured IPTV settings) and give consumers the choice of how they use this bandwidth.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Now comes with twice as many crap channels as before!

said by noneyabidness :

In essence, you sell bandwidth (in conjunction with preconfigured IPTV settings) and give consumers the choice of how they use this bandwidth.
This very point you're making has been brought up by Comcast back in the late 90's and again in about 2004. I've stated the same thing here and cited this point many times.

It's what they are working towards, however, as you know, while telco is doing it, there is still more issues for a cable system to implement this technology and make it stable enough to work.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

It's easy to "conquer" bandwidth when you have 40GB caps

While they're not enforced now there is nothing saying they couldn't in the future.

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

Re: It's easy to "conquer" bandwidth when you have 40GB caps

said by Dogfather:

While they're not enforced now there is nothing saying they couldn't in the future.
Cox/oc does in fact cap/throttle. Ever try to download anything 50 megs and over? Try it sometime. There may not be an enforcement of capping, per se, but the throttling is sure abundantly enforced. The nanosecond FIOS ever becomes available in Stepford, I'll drop Cox services quicker than you can say bandwidth. Docsis 3 will start to look exactly like what it is.......a joke and a half.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

1 edit

Re: It's easy to "conquer" bandwidth when you have 40GB caps

I have no problems with large files. I get powerboosted speeds of 30Mb and then it drops to 10-11Mb which is fine considering I have the 9Mb preferred tier. I don't use BT so I haven't been subjected to traffic shaping. My unencrypted Giganews doesn't seem to be subjected to special traffic shaping.

As far as monthly usage, I regularly blow through my monthly caps and haven't gotten an 'abuse' letter since the @Home days.
Expand your moderator at work

funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

Karl, you Ignorant Slut

"Why is this news? You must stop this non-stop attack against cable. Your pro-telco agenda is so transparent. How much are the twisted-pair-asites paying you?"

sirghost
citywide

join:2005-07-23
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Karl, you Ignorant Slut

said by funchords:

"Why is this news? You must stop this non-stop attack against cable. Your pro-telco agenda is so transparent. How much are the twisted-pair-asites paying you?"


I got one question for you. How is this article attacking cable and being pro telco?

NetAdmin1
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

Re: Karl, you Ignorant Slut

said by sirghost:

I got one question for you. How is this article attacking cable and being pro telco?
Based on all the smilies at the end of the post, I think that was sarcasm.
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funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: Karl, you Ignorant Slut

said by NetAdmin1:

said by sirghost:

I got one question for you. How is this article attacking cable and being pro telco?
Based on all the smilies at the end of the post, I think that was sarcasm.
-- yep. Our friend Karl gets unfairly bashed pretty good by some who think he's shilling for the Telco industry.
--
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More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...

KlarkKent

@comcast.net

Re: Karl, you Ignorant Slut

said by funchords:

-- yep. Our friend Karl gets unfairly bashed pretty good by some who think he's shilling for the Telco industry.
Is that because virtually every time T lights up a U-Verse cabinet, Karl scoops it on BBR's front page?

Not accusing anyone of anything, just asking a question.

kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Tampa, FL

Of Course

Of Course there is no bandwidth crunch. Nobody really believed that did they?

Bandwidth crunch has been nothing buy a propaganda campaign to steal more money from customers.
--
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots"

tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications

Re: Of Course

said by kfsutops:

Of Course there is no bandwidth crunch. Nobody really believed that did they?
The "bandwidth crunch" is pretty much limited to the First-Mile access network.

Both ADSL and DOCSIS have some pretty severe constraints.

/tom

joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6

Re: Of Course

said by tschmidt:

said by kfsutops:

Of Course there is no bandwidth crunch. Nobody really believed that did they?
The "bandwidth crunch" is pretty much limited to the First-Mile access network.

Both ADSL and DOCSIS have some pretty severe constraints.

/tom
How does ADSL have "severe constraints" in the last mile? Unless you mean the speed limitation is the "constraint?"
--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0

tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications

Re: Of Course

said by joako:

How does ADSL have "severe constraints" in the last mile?
DSL performance, even close to DSLAM, is relatively low and gets slower with distance.

DOCSIS node speed is higher but shared by all customers serviced by that node. This makes DOCSIS susceptible to slowdown during periods of heavy use.

Neither architecture is well suited for services that require lots of bandwidth for extended periods of time. Fiber to the premise First-Mile access is the only technology able to deliver sustained multi-megabit speed to lots of customers simultaneously at reasonable cost.

/tom

fastman

@cogentco.com

ricky bobby

If you ever met Jay Rolls, you would be dumbfounded how he ever made the position of VP of Tech.

a4960623

@comcast.net

Re: ricky bobby

No kidding!

This "VP" once thought that AppleTalk was a routeable protocol! Seriously!
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 edit

Those 3 things

would actually fix bandwidth concerns for at least the next 5 years, I agree.

When they upgrade their customers to SDV, they ought to throw in H.264 as well (or at least XVID). That way, they can deliver higher quality per cost, or lower cost per quality, or both.

Is this affordable in their market plan? I mean, they only charge a gazillion dollars per month, and this is going to cost them at least a small bunch of money to implement.

Unfortunately, they are content providers, not pipe providers, so there's so much management that is in their hands, that it might be too much, if you get their utility.

•••

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

No Point in SDTV

quote:
The upgrade ... will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels from 8 to 100+.
Great. Cox is investing in yesterday's technology. Why bother increasing the number of SD channels at all when HD programming can more easily be crappified to be viewable on any SD television?

Is Cox going to invest more money in horse and buggy technology too?
--
"At the moment of conception."

NetAdmin1
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

Re: No Point in SDTV

said by pnh102:

Great. Cox is investing in yesterday's technology. Why bother increasing the number of SD channels at all when HD programming can more easily be crappified to be viewable on any SD television?

Is Cox going to invest more money in horse and buggy technology too?
Some channels are still only broadcasting in SD, in fact, most of them still are right now. As long as you have content providers only broadcasting in SD, you are going to have to accommodate both until every broadcaster goes HD, and then you can down-convert at the box.

Cox isn't investing in yesterday's technology, they are accommodating broadcasters who are still behind the curve.
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.

inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

Re: No Point in SDTV

it is good actually. Viewership in those crap SD channels will go so low that they will either convert or vanish from existence. Here is hoping QVC stays in SD forever till the end.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!"
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Caps

If you look at it, technically they shouldn't have a bandwidth crunch at all right now; their caps top out at 75 GB/month! Granted, they're lax about enforcing those caps, but really, the ope is that they'll at least increase caps to Comcast levels when they do upgrade the network. Also, wonder what "affordable" means in the context of a 25 Mbps connection. $63-ish per month with cable like Comcast's new D3 22/5 tier? What will be the upload speed? Honestly I'd much rather have a 15 Mbps symmetric connection than 25/2 or 25/5. 20/20 (like FiOS) would be better, but that's about the extent of the bandwidth I'd want Too bad cable can't do it without upstream channel bonding...something Comcast has elected not to do yet.

•••

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Idiot

There's nothing in today's technology that is going to be relevant 10 years from now, and any exec who think so is incompetent.

Recall that 10 years ago, AOL dialup was still the major player in "internet" service, and very few even had cable internet. DSL was just beginning to come onto the scene with 768/128 being the norm. My Blackberry today has more processing power (and far more storage) than my PC did 10 years ago.

Technological advancements generally don't scale in a linear fashion either, so I hardly expect things to slow down.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 recommendation

Re: Idiot

said by jester121:

There's nothing in today's technology that is going to be relevant 10 years from now, and any exec who think so is incompetent.
Actually the one thing that will still be relevant 10 years from now are fiber optic lines.

SDKiwi
VIP
join:2002-05-27
El Cajon, CA
kudos:2
said by jester121:

There's nothing in today's technology that is going to be relevant 10 years from now, and any exec who think so is incompetent.

Recall that 10 years ago, AOL dialup was still the major player in "internet" service, and very few even had cable internet. DSL was just beginning to come onto the scene with 768/128 being the norm. My Blackberry today has more processing power (and far more storage) than my PC did 10 years ago.

Technological advancements generally don't scale in a linear fashion either, so I hardly expect things to slow down.
I agree with some of your comments but not your original statement. Technology in terms of hardware....I agree that will not last 10 years. But, I think the conversation is more about underlying architectures which last a lot longer than specific hardware.

DOCSIS has been in production for just about 12 years now and in the next 1-2 years, we will see a quadrupling of DOCSIS bandwidth delivery, both upstream and downstream. I can see those doubling again if we can resolve some upstream spectrum issues. IPV6 will be embraced as well, another architectural example where IPV4 has been around for decades.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

25000/4000

yeah. in fios areas.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

Re: 25000/4000

dvd536 See Profile, while i know that what you speak is true, i feel obligated to make this comment...

nothing like the bitter ray of sunshine that comes from dvd...glad you could make it to the party...i was waiting for a "havenot" comment...

q.

John Keels

@bellsouth.net

Bandwidth Schmandwidth

Well, I kinda figured that they were using the "bandwidth problem" as an excuse to squeeze more money out of people.

cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3

Leave it to Cox

Why is it that only Cox will make a public announcement that they are going for all 1 GHz systems? Why can't cable GIANT, Comcast make any such announcement? Sure you could get stuck with Comcast easily with their large footprint, but that should also return more dollars to spend for upgrades. You think the #1 cable company would actually be #1 in technology as well? Nope, you get no such announcements. Their strategy is removing analog. Although that works, what's better, 54 to 1000 MHz of pure digital, or 54 to 750 MHz of pure digital. I don't care if Comcast goes all digital, but still if they had headroom to 1 GHz it would help future proof the network.

Comcast has too many Motorola plants which cannot do switched digital video with their antiquated 1990's I-Guide. That's planned for release A28, but were only on A25. It took 20 months to upgrade from I-Guide A24 to A25. Doesn't look like Comcast has any priorities in the video department. All of that focus went into CDV, marketing and HSI.

inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

Re: Leave it to Cox

Cox is a giant. They are just private so you don't know their true size. This is one time I can say being private has its advantages because they can conduct upgrades without being under the mercy of shareholders who don't know shit.