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DOCSIS 3.0 Spreads Globally
120Mbps cable hits Europe...
by Karl Bode 09:06AM Thursday Sep 18 2008
Earlier DOCSIS cable networks can only support transmissions within a single downstream 6 MHz radio frequency (RF) channel, limiting maximum throughput to around 40Mbps (shared). DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades will allow tuning into multiple 6 MHz channels through channel bonding technology, offering shared downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps. Downstream speeds could theoretically reach as high as 320Mbps -- thanks to new eight channel bonding chipsets.

Channel bonding combines multiple quadrature amplitude modulation (QAM) channels to ultimately offer cable broadband customers faster speeds. While DOCSIS 3.0 may not be here yet, ARRIS, Motorola, and Cisco are releasing pre-cert hardware that takes advantage of these advancements. We've been seeing a growing number of pre-cert 50-100Mbps cable solutions popping up in markets such as the UK, South Korea, and Singapore.

Comcast is the only cable operator in the U.S. to deploy pre-certification DOCSIS 3.0 technology at speeds of 50Mbps, but so far that's only in one market. Videotron was the first carrier in north America to offer pre-cert speeds, delivering both 30Mbps ($64.95) and 50Mbps ($79.95) tiers with 30Gb and 50GB caps, respectively.

This week Europe got in on the pre-cert action, a company by the name of Liberty Global saying they're offering 120Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 speeds in Amsterdam. "The launch of our Fiber Power broadband services in Europe marks another milestone in cable's long-standing superiority of DSL," insists Liberty Global CEO Mike Fries. Liberty says they'll launch the product in Switzerland and Austria before the end of this year, and the rest of their European markets by the end of 2009.

You'll notice that none of these announcements go out of their way to mention upstream speeds, largely because upstream channel bonding is still being worked on. The result is some rather top heavy tiers being offered in many of these markets (such as 100Mbps/2Mbps). Back to the States, Comcast has promised to have DOCSIS 3.0 technology deployed to 20% of their footprint by the end of this year, and their entire customer base by the end of 2010.

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Phylop
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Reston, VA

Upstream channel bonding!

I've been hearing about this delayed upstream channel bonding for quite a while now, I guess it's good to at least get the downstream speeds up, but what "power users" really want is much faster upstream speeds, especially if Cable is going to compete with Verizon FiOS, currently offering 20mbit/s upstream speeds in some tiers.

Otherwise, more technically, how can they manage that downstream speed of something around 100mbit/s with an upstream of merely 2mbit/s? I thought because of the "token bucket" QoS system that most cable companies used the downstream was somewhat dependent on the upstream. Can someone clarify this for me?

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Upstream channel bonding!

said by Phylop:

Otherwise, more technically, how can they manage that downstream speed of something around 100mbit/s with an upstream of merely 2mbit/s? I thought because of the "token bucket" QoS system that most cable companies used the downstream was somewhat dependent on the upstream. Can someone clarify this for me?
You are right expecting an upload limit having an effect on how fast you can download. But 2 mbps upload(if no other traffic using the upload like a P2P app) would allow an FTP download for example to reach the full download capacity.

But most users would be running multiple connections and apps utilizing upload bandwidth that could ultimately make downloads not be able to use the full download capacity.
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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

1 recommendation

Re: Upstream channel bonding!

said by FFH5:

You are right expecting an upload limit having an effect on how fast you can download. But 2 mbps upload(if no other traffic using the upload like a P2P app) would allow an FTP download for example to reach the full download capacity.
TCP/IP is a 2-way communications protocol. To be able to download, you have to upload acknowledgements of the successful receipt of the downloaded packets. There are ways to reduce the need for the upload bandwidth load but even that has a limit (at least until IPv6 is used which allows larger [AKA Jumbo] packets and larger/sliding transmit windows). Each 1500 packet with download data needs a upload packet to say that the downloaded packet has arrived. That uploaded packet controls how fast you can download since you will not be eligible for more downloaded data until you acknowledge the receipt of the "in flight"/prior packets. The ACK packets tend up be small and the major part is the Headers/Overhead not the actual payload content. Thus if you saturate your upload session with the small ACK packets, you can not download any faster. There is also the case where YOU are doing the uploading (such as SENDING not RECEIVING Email) where you are being lock-stepped by maxing out the upload channel.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
I totally agree upstream is becoming more important. Without equal or, close to equal upstream. Any machine doing any activity will lock up, and get timeouts. What good is 20M if you have 2M upload. It prevents the usage.

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

While it may be true that Comcast

only has docsis 3.0 in one market so far it looks like it's coming on fast and furious in others with it reportedly now being rolled out in New England and currently in the overnight testing phase.

»Docsis 3.0 is Coming Soon to New England
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Re: While it may be true that Comcast

said by Rick:

only has docsis 3.0 in one market so far it looks like it's coming on fast and furious in others with it reportedly now being rolled out in New England and currently in the overnight testing phase.

»Docsis 3.0 is Coming Soon to New England
Very global there, Rick.
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA

It could be capabile of 1GB down and 500GB up but...

We'd still only see 5MB down and 256KB up.

Still happy I have Verizon but even so my max upload is 5MB here (unless I want to pay over $100/mo).
--
»www.fairtax.org

Phylop
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Reston, VA

Re: It could be capabile of 1GB down and 500GB up but...

said by Lumberjack:

We'd still only see 5MB down and 256KB up.

Still happy I have Verizon but even so my max upload is 5MB here (unless I want to pay over $100/mo).
Comcast currently offers upload speeds much faster than 256kbit/s, Verizon FiOS offers it's 20/20 tier for $69.99 a month. I see your point, but don't exaggerate.
Done_Posting
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH
said by Lumberjack:

Still happy I have Verizon but even so my max upload is 5MB here (unless I want to pay over $100/mo).
Wow, you have 40 Mbps of upstream and you're paying less than $100 a month? That's terrific!

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbps#.27b.···_.27B.27

- Tate

--
Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement...
Natoma6

join:1999-08-30
Brooklyn, NY
quote:
Videotron was the first carrier in north America to offer pre-cert speeds, delivering both 30Mbps ($64.95) and 50Mbps ($79.95) tiers with 30Gb and 50GB caps, respectively.
What I find laughable is Videotron's caps.

50GB/month caps for 50mbit downstream?? You'd get that in 2hrs with your connection maxed out.

Hell, I downloaded 7 HD movie rentals a few weeks ago to my AppleTV, each at 4-6GB a pop. Good grief Videotron.

Cable's a goddamn joke. So happy I've got my uncapped, unmetered 50/20 FIOS. Only $89 too.

dirtwarrior

join:2008-03-21
really here in, MD, we get slammed hard by taxes and 20/20 internet is $69 a month whith out a triple play deal. an VA you pay about $13 less $57 respectively so I dont see where you would pay $99 a month for anything above 5up respectively.

Mari

@verizon.net

We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

We're deploying fully certified/qualified DOCSIS 3.0 gear now. Motorola's got commercial D3.0 deployments in Japan and Korea, with shipments of D3.0 modems to a North American MSO already happening at production volumes.

»connectedhome2go.com/2008/09/18/···is-here/

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet

Re: We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

said by Mari :

We're deploying fully certified/qualified DOCSIS 3.0 gear now. Motorola's got commercial D3.0 deployments in Japan and Korea, with shipments of D3.0 modems to a North American MSO already happening at production volumes.

»connectedhome2go.com/2008/09/18/···is-here/
The BSR has D3 gold certification? I must've missed that I thought it only had bronze (no upstream bonding).

Mari

@comcast.net

Re: We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

Sorry- it's still bronze, but it is considered qualified, not pre-cert.

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK

Re: We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

Sure but no upstream bonding
Done_Posting
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH

Re: We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

said by Ignite:

Sure but no upstream bonding
We have upstream bonding... in our lab.

- Tate

--
Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement...

FIB3RTECH

@comcast.net
said by Mari :

We're deploying fully certified/qualified DOCSIS 3.0 gear now. Motorola's got commercial D3.0 deployments in Japan and Korea, with shipments of D3.0 modems to a North American MSO already happening at production volumes.

»connectedhome2go.com/2008/09/18/···is-here/
We went with the Cisco 10K product... We've had really good luck with Cisco over the years.

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK

Re: We're Past the Pre-Cert Stage

Also no upstream bonding though, and in Comcast's case not even running DOCSIS 3 but running DOCSIS 2B - DOCSIS 3 is required to have at least 4 bonded downstreams while Comcast are running on 3.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Service Electric

Aren't they deploying DOCSIS 3.0 as well for their 30/2 tiers?

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet

1 edit

Upstream Bonding is There

The Casa Systems C2200 and C3200 CMTS both have full gold certification - downstream and upstream bonding, they received these in certification wave 58, results released in May.

»www.casa-systems.com/prod_C2200.htm
»www.casa-systems.com/prod_C3200.htm

quote:
Channel bonding of up to 16 downstream and 16 upstream channels, AES encryption, IPv6 for cable modems.
In addition in Europe we're deploying EuroDOCSIS 3, 8MHz RF channels at 51Mbps per channel - this tech is being deployed everywhere that uses 8MHz channels in their spectrums.

popper2

@ntl.com

Re: Upstream Bonding is There, multicasting too

said by Ignite:

The Casa Systems C2200 and C3200 CMTS both have full gold certification - downstream and upstream bonding, they received these in certification wave 58, results released in May.

»www.casa-systems.com/prod_C2200.htm
»www.casa-systems.com/prod_C3200.htm

quote:
Channel bonding of up to 16 downstream and 16 upstream channels, AES encryption, IPv6 for cable modems.
In addition in Europe we're deploying EuroDOCSIS 3, 8MHz RF channels at 51Mbps per channel - this tech is being deployed everywhere that uses 8MHz channels in their spectrums.
popper

everyones forgetting the most important part for end users and world ISPs with any sense Ignite,
that being MANDATED Multicast all the way to and from the end users kit sat on their desktops.

about time the ISPS turned that back On, no more Multicast tunneling required for those that use it today,we might start to see some real old school MBONE retrofiting code to todays codebases (see bamboo java Multicast DHT for instance )then, and start to save a wad of bandwidth.

at least even baseline "bronze" cert bonded and multicast downstream and single bonded upstream can finally be used by the average end users IF THE world ISPs finally do it right and keep it turned on, potentially giving internal ISP end users the ability to multicast their webcam and video content to other internal ISP end users on a single multicast VLC 224.0.0.1:1234 generic instance to anyone htat cares to pick on the VLC SAP announce broadcast, and thats a very good thing.

:sout=#transcode{vcodec=h264,vb=512,scale=1,acodec=mp4a,ab=96,channels=2}:duplicate{dst=std{access=udp,mux=ts,dst=224.0.0.1:1234}} :sout-all"

BTW is any consumer ISP in the world really payed for and deploying these real and the only fully officially certifyed gold C2200 and C3200 today?

tenpin784
I Went To The Dark Side?

join:2001-03-30
Brierfield, AL

I am still waiting

Until I can even start playing with DOCSIS 3.0 gear

I want in!!!!