 kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427 | Rare Earth... Did a great song about big brother .... | |
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Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL | Who is gonna pay.... for the storage? | |
|  | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: Who is gonna pay.... said by Jon  :for the storage? we are... what isp in there right mind would absorb the cost of building several massive data center/vaults to house and store this data to DoD/DoJ specs on the hopes that the government will have enough time to trudge through every bit of data looking for NAMBLA/Child porn rings/individuals...? it's ridiculous to ask isp's to capture, store, and house exabytes to zetabytes of information for the sake of the hope that you will nail these people and pray they are still there... this is why government shouldn't be conducting certain types activities... they just aren't good at it and it penalizes all of us... | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| Re: Who is gonna pay.... said by Asmodeus1 :we are... what isp in there right mind would absorb the cost of building several massive data center/vaults to house and store this data to DoD/DoJ specs on the hopes that the government will have enough time to trudge through every bit of data looking for NAMBLA/Child porn rings/individuals...? it's ridiculous to ask isp's to capture, store, and house exabytes to zetabytes of information for the sake of the hope that you will nail these people and pray they are still there... this is why government shouldn't be conducting certain types activities... they just aren't good at it and it penalizes all of us... You mean you bought the line that the purpose of this is to combat child porn? 
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * IT Technician * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * My website: Zerochill | |
| | | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: Who is gonna pay.... it doesn't matter what the excuse is whether it's combating terror, illegal drugs, child porn, the slave trade, prostitution, snuff films, online rape, name your poison... the fact that the government wants private industry to capture and hold this data for years at a stretch is unreasonable and the cost of doing that will get passed down to you and me and they won't do anything with it because on average if they ever get to actually looking at this kind of data it will be to late considering things like statutes of limitations might come into effect and it will have been for nothing other than me having to grab my wallet all the time to get online...
it's not even necessary at this point either... build multiple echelon/carnivore systems that look for data traffic with respect to the aforementioned problems and capture that data as necessary and have it flag and alert an operator that can verify the data and notify the appropriate agency for action... | |
| | | | | ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
edit:
January 25th, @10:20PM
| Re: Who is gonna pay.... said by Asmodeus1 :it doesn't matter what the excuse is whether it's combating terror, illegal drugs, child porn, the slave trade, prostitution, snuff films, online rape, name your poison... the fact that the government wants private industry to capture and hold this data for years at a stretch is unreasonable and the cost of doing that will get passed down to you and me and they won't do anything with it because on average if they ever get to actually looking at this kind of data it will be to late considering things like statutes of limitations might come into effect and it will have been for nothing other than me having to grab my wallet all the time to get online... it's not even necessary at this point either... build multiple echelon/carnivore systems that look for data traffic with respect to the aforementioned problems and capture that data as necessary and have it flag and alert an operator that can verify the data and notify the appropriate agency for action... Gee, that sounds like a solution; eliminate civil liberties altogether, and just spy on everyone, all the time... | |
| | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Who is gonna pay.... said by guitarzan :said by Asmodeus1 :said by Jon :for the storage? we are... what isp in there right mind would absorb the cost of building several massive data center/vaults to house and store this data to DoD/DoJ specs on the hopes that the government will have enough time to trudge through every bit of data looking for NAMBLA/Child porn rings/individuals...? it's ridiculous to ask isp's to capture, store, and house exabytes to zetabytes of information for the sake of the hope that you will nail these people and pray they are still there... this is why government shouldn't be conducting certain types activities... they just aren't good at it and it penalizes all of us... After they start building massive data center/vaults to house and store this data to DoD/DoJ specs. Everyone should switch back to cheapest dial up one can get. That should throw a big enough wrench into the works to mess it up. Now everyone will get internet by the gigabyte, no more unlimited, so basically, for every gigabyte u transmit, you pay for space on a HD to record what you did. | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Pointless With all the data coming in how are they going to keep up with it? | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Pointless That's just it. The data won't be "coming in" to the government until they request specific items. It will be up to the ISP (or search engine, or whatever) to keep and catalog all the data for the relevant time period.
Users will end up paying for it indirectly, just as hotel guests effectively cover the cost of required record keeping by hotels. (And, to tie in the SOX debate, investors in stock pay for the new required corporate record keeping under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.)
calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | 
RIRWIN1983
join:2005-08-30
Columbus, OH | it probaly be more like how the credit co's fraud departments look for patters of fraud. they will use software that will "sniff" for certan "criteria" and once found, flag it for later following up. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Pointless Again, the government won't "have" the data to do this. They'd have to require the ISPs, search engines, etc., to do it for them, and the proposed legislation does not provide for this.
I don't demean at all the argument over whether retention of this data is a worthwhile requirement or not. But let's keep it focused on what the proposal is--unless you're saying that "the next step will be X." There's a big difference between requiring private companies to retain records and requiring them to give it all to the government without specific probable cause.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·Verizon Online DSL
| data archiving...
...they're apparently not yet entirely sure what data they want ISPs to hold on to. "We don't have any position officially about how long records would have to be retained or what records would have to be retained..."
Fav underwear brand, style & size? Surely there are other aspects of my life the DoJ/ISPs are welcome to maintain a dossier on but, at the moment, I can't think of any.
What baffles is how the DoJ, or any other federal agency, thinks pushing everyday sites & users into strong encryption is going to advance their cause. To divine intent out of massive quantities of cleartext is one thing, but decrypting it all to scan it? That bird won't fly ... unless they're sowing seeds for the acceptance of IP6 network-based encryption with centralized keys. Yikes! | |
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thender
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Child porn and terrorism, the two keys to the constitution Mention one of these words and yes sir, there goes privacy and freedom.
This isn't about using it for child porn. This is for the MPAA and RIAA to have better grounds to sue people in court with, using already ridiculous laws. This is to say someone is a terrorist if they were idling in a certain IRC channel.
If you take away one freedom or spec of privacy, it's easier to take away the next. Then you take away another, then you keep doing it because you think that's how things are supposed to be done. It's not how things are supposed to be done, and if you fought it the first time and won, you'd know that.
--
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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thender
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Child porn and terrorism, the two keys to the constitution system continues to keep the man down. The opportunity to take a crucial step towards diminishing his power has been critically wounded when my feature request was shot down. But look where we are now. 
Is it so much to ask that I read someone's response to my post less than an hour after they hit "post now!" | |
| | 
AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Thasp;
quote:
If you take away one freedom or spec of privacy, it's easier to take away the next. Then you take away another, then you keep doing it because you think that's how things are supposed to be done. It's not how things are supposed to be done, and if you fought it the first time and won, you'd know that.
I just figured you might find this enlightening...
»www.existential-therapy.com/Spec···lity.htm | |
| GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Government & Zero Intelligence. One becomes a politician because of an ability to know how to flip burgers, let alone anything requiring more intelligence. They cannot say specifically what forms of data they want retained, yet they want it retained on everyone for several years.
90% of ISPs couldn't afford to blanket archive all of those TCP and UDP packets being transmitted from the Internet to the end users. How about initiative on removing the websites and newsgroups that cater to child pornography?
I know, makes sense in suggesting the other end of the stick, but those politicians can write their own name without 80-hours of remedial schooling on how to hold the pen. | |
| | footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: Government & Zero Intelligence. said by GhostDoggy :One becomes a politician because of an ability to know how to flip burgers Actually, there's a tradition of presidential candidates flipping pancakes in New Jersey, so you're not far off.
--
What's certain about Darwinism is that it would take less time for (1) a single-celled organism to evolve into a human being through mutation and natural selection than for (2) Darwinists to admit they have no proof of (1) - Ann Coulter | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Once was the day when the people would have risen up and slain them for the cowardly criminal cretins they truly are.
But, then, they didn't have plasma, iTunes, American Idol (endless list of digital opiates here), and so much debt and fat that to wield the sword would be impossible ...
--
.sig currently unavailable. Try again later. | |
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Mr Bob
@sbcglobal.net
| Cant override the Constitution The bill is illegal. Im no legal expert but I own an ISP and WE DONT TRACK WHERE OUR CUSTOMERS GO ON THE INTERNET!!! That is our customers constituional right to privacy, and the only ones that are allowed to look at a persons confidential papers and effects (or now paperless papers, websites) is the Government and they still, by law of the constituion, must have a SEARCH WARRANT. Pass the law or not, I dont really care, the only thing we log is a customers IP, and when they were connected with that IP. And all we use that for is troubleshooting. So even if I wanted to so that I could sell statistics on our customers, I still could not legally do so.
Fight the Big Brother Regime! | |
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DOJ Pondering Breadth of Desired ISP Snooping
