DSL Takes A BeatingTelcos post worst quarterly additions in DSL history ( old news - 04:30PM Wednesday Jul 30 2008) tags: prices · competition · business · bandwidth · cableThis was the worst quarter ever for DSL additions, with AT&T and Verizon barely adding 100,000 broadband customers, but collectively losing 220,000 DSL customers (130,000 for Verizon, 90,000 for AT&T). Why? The slow housing market plays a role, as does DSL users migrating to fiber. Verizon's neglect of DSL infrastructure and marketing is also a reason. But the baby bells are also hampered by DSL's slower speed in the face of 10-20Mbps cable, popular cable technologies like Powerboost, and VoIP bundles. Those discount introductory DSL tiers, made so popular a few years ago, helped convert dial-up users to broadband, resulting in record additions. But now the broadband market is saturated, and many remaining dial-up users don't want to upgrade. Now it's all about playing customer tug of war by using triple play bundles and long term contracts. Lately, it appears that cable is winning the battle. Despite all the hype given to FiOS and U-Verse, the reality is that the majority of both company's customers are going to be served by DSL for a very long time. Verizon is probably in the best position, though even by 2010, roughly half of Verizon customers still won't have access to FiOS. AT&T's in a tougher spot, given they've decided to stick with loop-length dependent copper and could struggle once DOCSIS 3.0 is deployed. Both AT&T and Verizon also probably won't push their next-gen services much further into their footprint, given the lower ROI for rural America. Meanwhile, cable already serves many of those rural customers because of tough local franchise agreements with build-out provisions. These are the same local franchising rules AT&T and Verizon just spent millions lobbying to eliminate so they could avoid the cost of wiring rural America. If you folks recall, many analysts predicted the telcos would be leading the cable industry in overall broadband adoption totals by now, but they aren't. A report (pdf) by Information Gatekeepers from last May argued that the longer install times of U-Verse and FiOS and a neglect of traditional DSL offerings would have a negative impact on both telcos. Fewer broadband additions mean it's harder to offset continued landline losses. Cable appears to be better positioned because DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades are cheaper than running fiber, and MSOs are adding VOIP customers much more quickly than the telcos are adding video subscribers. But the bells' primary strength right now is wireless, and this fight could get much more interesting once they begin serious deployment of LTE wireless broadband (AT&T claims 20Mbps wireless by 2009, though that's optimistic). Verizon's focus on urban fiber (thanks to bendable fiber) could also speed up FiOS numbers. Related:- Verizon Laughs Off DOCSIS 3.0
- Cox Launches 50Mbps Service In Lafayette
- Time Warner Cable 'Delays' Texas Metered Billing
- Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
- Time Warner Cable Protests Planned
- Comcast Expands DOCSIS 3.0 In Bay Area
- RCN Raises Rates, Adds 'Downgrade Fee'
- Comcast 50Mbps To See Price Cut
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  baineschile Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Or maybe... A good chunk of people dont want or need high speed internet.
Isnt earthlink banking on owning the dial up market the next decade? | |
|  |  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Or maybe... said by baineschile :A good chunk of people dont want or need high speed internet. Isnt earthlink banking on owning the dial up market the next decade? DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNAR!!!
DSL was a half hearted attempt for the telcos to get high speed access to their customers. Distance from the CO was the biggest problem.
They had their chance with ISDN but screwed that up too.
Verizon is deploying fiber. A BIG reason is that they don't have to share it with anyone and to upgrade their decades old equipment. | |
|  |  |  robl27 Premium join:2008-07-16 Mary Esther, FL
·Cox HSI
| Re: Or maybe... DSL isn't available in all areas which is a BIG problem and the speeds are slower then cable and soon, they will be issuing monthly caps.
people think DSL is better, well it has it's pros and cons but why is 1.5 down still the norm? why not 10 or 20 down be the norm.. answer? corporate greed.
people think 1.5 is fast until you download a big file.
here, i'm paying for 20/2.5 here on cable and DSL is only offering 256/256 or something similar.
lack of competition isn't helping, either.
here in fort walton beach, fl cox issued a speed increase which is nice but will probably hold for the next 4-6 years.
-rob -- »www.cband.info come join our IRC chat room and meet some new friends and listen to some good radio. We don't bite unless it's a piece of steak! | |
|  |  |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Folks can't buy something that you refuse to sell to them ... ...Verizon's strategy is to refuse to sell DSL to millions of their lower-ROI customers, and use them as hostage "bait" to push for USF-like subsidies in D.C. Or so it has been reported by dslprime.com. Apparently they've computed if they can squeeze a new cash cow revenue stream out of the government, it'll be worth it in the long run to forego the revenue from these subscribers for the time being. Maybe a smart thing for VZ shareholders. It just sucks being one of these subscribers, and eventually a taxpayer, once the VZ lobbyists work their magic. | |
|  |  |  |  |   guypd
join:2008-05-08 Silver Springs, NY | Re: Folks can't buy something that you refuse to sell to them .. Frontier is the local DSL and they just decided to put a 5 GB / month cap on their High Speed Internet. I think this will be a cause for a major migration to Time Warner's Road Runner, since they don't have any caps at this point in time. | |
|  |  apollo80
join:2002-01-31 Richmond, VA
| Happy with what I have for now... Have been waiting for Verizon Fios for some time. Currently have their DSL service.
And honestly...I'm happy with it. Yes, there are faster speeds out there, but the speed I have is fast enough, and with simple gaming, web surfing, and emails, along with the occasional iTunes download of music, I don't need more speed, at least for now.
Because my 1500/384 is cheap enough, I'm no longer in a hurry for Fios. | |
|  |   pan0k
@cox.net
| Re: Happy with what I have for now... I too was in that situation. I was doing 1.5mbps down/128K up and paid handsomely for it base price of $34.95 ($36 to $39 depending on Verizon mood). I was waiting for FIOS to come to my neighborhood (if you draw a 1/2 mile radius around my house - anybody inside the circle does not have FIOS where everyone outside the circle has it.) Then I got an email stating they are jacking up my base price to $39.95 which was the last draw. I immediately jump to cox and it cost me $2.04 additional to get 5 mbps down/2 mbps up. That 2 mbss up makes the whole difference especially uploading pictures, and made me feel glad that I switch. | |
|   ninjatutle Premium
join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA 1 edit | Next quarter: Cable Takes A Beating This is going to happen as customers jump from one provider to the next with incentives year after year. These are the customers you don't want anyways. The frugal bottom feeders. Best Buy calls them devil shoppers. | |
|  |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Next quarter: Cable Takes A Beating said by ninjatutle :This is going to happen as customers jump from one provider to the next with incentives year after year. And what "incentives" would those be? Caps? Throttling? Those aren't incentives, chum...they're disincentives. And the more onerous they get, the more people will decide they no longer need BB. | |
|  |  |  |  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by ninjatutle :This is going to happen as customers jump from one provider to the next with incentives year after year. These are the customers you don't want anyways. The frugal bottom feeders. Best Buy calls them devil shoppers. Yeah, stupid customers who take advantage of sales, read the fine print, use incentives, rebates, etc
What losers.
Customers should just hand over their wallets and let Corporations decide what they are going to give them and when. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|  |  |   ninjatutle Premium
join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA | Re: Next quarter: Cable Takes A Beating Yes, it is exactly what they are, bottom feeders. Probably the same ones fighting over each other the day after thanksgiving at Walmart over $20 DVD players or $300 notebooks. | |
|  |  |  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Next quarter: Cable Takes A Beating No, they are smart and savvy shoppers.
People who research purchases and take extra time and effort to save money. They aren't bottom feeders, nor are they abusers. They're just smart.
If companies don't like bargain shoppers, then they should simply stop using misleading advertising and gimmicks like rebates. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|  |  |  |  |   guitarzan Premium join:2004-05-04 Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: Next quarter: Cable Takes A Beating said by KrK :No, they are smart and savvy shoppers. People who research purchases and take extra time and effort to save money. They aren't bottom feeders, nor are they abusers. They're just smart. If companies don't like bargain shoppers, then they should simply stop using misleading advertising and gimmicks like rebates Including gimmicks such as wanting Google...etc to pay for content crossing their customers monthly paid for connection or billing per byte or gigabyte overage on a hi speed tier the con artists dreamed up in the first place, designed to rip off & shaft their own customers. F that bullshit, they have to be aware customers will hopefully sooner rather than later tell them where to jam it.
I'm surprised these corporate hors has not rolled out a price increase/tax on internet due to higher gasoline prices. -- It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism? With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
|  |  |  |  |   supergirl
join:2007-03-20 Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| said by KrK :No, they are smart and savvy shoppers. People who research purchases and take extra time and effort to save money. They aren't bottom feeders, nor are they abusers. They're just smart. If companies don't like bargain shoppers, then they should simply stop using misleading advertising and gimmicks like rebates. I research every purchase. And, I HATE rebates. Rebates are a scam--many people will forget to send them in or it is a pain--wait 4-6 weeks. Comparison shopping is exactly what the Internet is for exactly. And, I can wait for the price drop--unlike idiots waiting a week in line for the new iPhone.
AT&T added a lot of DSL customers, at that $9.95 rate, when they jacked dial-up to $21.95. VZ justs seems to be changing DSL to FIOS. The other thing killing the Telcos is the cheap phone service from the Cable Cos--which can be up to $30 a month cheaper. Cable is selling on price points and the Telcos are selling on a technology few get (FIOS) or few understand (UVerse). Since it looks like a bleak future for the Telcos, especially AT&T, then it is certainly bleak for Indie Voip companies (ala Vonage). -- Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton. -Supergirl | |
|  |   THX 1138 neo-luddite Premium join:2007-01-24 San Jose, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
| I guess I'm a Bottom Feeder. I get Elite DSL, Long Distance, Local Calling, and Wireless for $77/month. These are stable month-to-month prices that aren't going to time out.
Granted, I pay what you pay for Elite DSL. My long distance is the Online One-Rate [or whatever it's called] and I have no friends to call anyway :-( , my local calling is Measured Rate without any bells and whistles, and my Wireless is an old company-sponsored plan that's grandfathered in and which my wireless provider is forever trying to entice me to "upgrade" out of.
I go for the deals and dump the crappy pricing. Bottom Feeding is just smart consumerism. I'd feel like a chump if I got any of these bundle "deals" that would bend me over a barrel for hundreds of dollars a month.
('Devil Shoppers'. I like that. I can use it as a negotiating tool with a phone rep; "Don't make me Devil Shop you!")
Bottom Feeders Unite! | |
|  |  |  MrHappy316 Wish I had my tank Premium join:2003-01-02 Summerville, SC
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Partly price for me. I agree with this assessment, my parents have kick butt Comcast during non busy parts of the day but slows to a crawl when everyone gets off work and the pings skyrocket. So far with my DSL I haven't had either problem and I don't get penalized because I got Sat TV and not subscribing to their crappy basic cable service | |
|  Trollhawk
join:2005-05-28
| Could be due to U-verse/FIOS cannabilization of DSL lines I'd guess that the low growth in additional DSL lines can be, partly, attributed to customers converting from DSL to U-verse/FIOS. I know I have, as well as many houses on my block. Isn't this the first quarter that U-verse additions have outnumbered DSL additions for AT&T? | |
|  |   bobjohnson Premium join:2007-02-03 Titusville, FL
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Could be due to U-verse/FIOS cannabilization of DSL lines said by Trollhawk :I'd guess that the low growth in additional DSL lines can be, partly, attributed to customers converting from DSL to U-verse/FIOS. I know I have, as well as many houses on my block. Isn't this the first quarter that U-verse additions have outnumbered DSL additions for AT&T? could be due to the fact that people are getting kicked out of their houses all over the country... -- Any unauthorized copying or distribution of the opinion above constitutes stupidity and you should probably be punished
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|   LiamJunket Premium join:2002-03-03 Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| Look at prediction from Dec 2006
»DSL Beating Cable in Subscriber Adds
DSL Beating Cable in Subscriber Adds But when will the two technologies break even? (old news - 12:52PM Friday Dec 01 2006)
For at least the eighth time in the past 10 quarters, the baby bells have added more subscribers than the nation's largest cable providers, reports Light Reading. The biggest phone providers added 1.3 million broadband subscribers in the third quarter, compared to 1.2 million for the nation's largest cable providers. For the record, the U.S. has 51 million broadband users, 28.2 million cable customers (slightly less than 56%) and 22.7 million DSL customers (44%).
There's been absurdly differing opinions on when exactly DSL will pull up alongside (or pass) cable in regards to total subscribers. Pew proclaimed that DSL was now even with cable in the States back in June, an analysis that Bruce Leichtman of Leichtman Research proclaimed was "dead wrong." IGI recently predicted that DSL totals would surpass cable by the end of the year.
Apparently none of the industry's experts actually know, so "soon" seems like a reasonable answer based on consistent strong DSL subscriber additions. When this prediction was made, the ascendancy of DSL was a foregone conclusion. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|  |  |   funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: That's what happens when you take 30% increases said by Dogfather :Both AT&T and Verzion took HUGE increases on their budget DSL tiers, the tiers that were generating the record adds for them not too long ago. People shop price. Raise the price = lower adds. Drop the price = higher adds. Sort of. One of the big deals about Xtuple-Play deals is that it makes the customers much less likely to shop price. Switching TV providers requires a dish and/or new boxes. Switching telephone providers is painful. So for that $5-$10 discount, they also get some loyalty.
The Wii, McAfee, Rhapsody, etc. -- that's not just Comcast being nice (although those are nice things to have), they're also designed to keep you from jumping ship on a price shift. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |   funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC | Re: That's what happens when you take 30% increases They are about price -- to get you initially. But once they've got you, you have to decide whether it is worth the hassle to switch it all again. With Internet, sure. With Cable and Phone -- that's a hassle. | |
|  Tcomp
join:2008-07-29 Greenbelt, MD
| good insight into this issue at »telecompetitor.com/node/741
DSL may be in real trouble, especially given it's "value" play as a cheaper broadband option. If it can't compete when the economy sucks, how's it going to do when the economy turns around. | |
|   nyny
@ftna.com
from: LiamJunket 
| you should correct the article: actual loss of DSL customers if you look at the numbers, AT&T and Verizon are barely adding 100,000 broadband customers, but these numbers include fiber customers too.
After removing fiber customers, a quick look gives the following result: - Verizon lost 130,000 DSL customers in Q2 - AT&T lost 90,000 DSL customers in Q2 | |
|  |  Hound
join:2006-03-08 Princeton, NJ | Re: you should correct the article: actual loss of DSL customers Does Verizon's 2Q number include the loss of subs due to the Fairpoint sale? | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | Yeah, but excluding fiber customers is silly, since a decently large number of their DSL customers probably switched to the fiber service- the company therefore didn't really "lose" those customers. | |
|   Packeteers Premium join:2005-06-18 Forest Hills, NY | DSL Rules!
I just had my Interleave updated to FastPath and I could not be happier with my 3000/768 service. I think cable and FIOS are overkill, and won't pay a dime more to get either one. | |
|   Rick Premium,MVM join:2001-02-06 Waterbury, CT clubs: 
| My prediction is... if you think things are bad now..wait until docsis 3.0 arrives bigtime next year.
If Comcast plays their cards right and makes those 50Mb speeds part of something like the top tier bundle (159 bundle).. there won't be a telco landline or dsl customer left in the United States!
They could single handedly change the entire speed landscape in this country.
The only one who could pose a challenge to that would be Verizon and their fios service. But there's no way they can get enough territory wired in time. Or as fast as docsis 3.0 can roll out.
IMHO.this is the real danger to the telco's. And their losses this quarter might be a drop in the bucket compared to that.
Is this comcasts plan?
I guess we'll just have to see but I sure wouldn't be surprised. -- The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
|  |  See 7 replies to this post | |
  normat Premium join:2000-08-02 Boynton Beach, FL clubs: | don't want phone service Also adding inexpensive VOIP services could net them more telco customers. However, most cable companies seem to overcharge for VOIP.
I don't want a land line phone but I do want my DSL or some sort of data line. | |
|  |   hamburglar_
join:2002-04-29 Columbus, OH
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: don't want phone service Not the case for me. Both cable companies I can get are $10/month cheaper than ATT U-VERSE VOIP. They think their TV is pretty special at $74/month BUNDLED. That's currently one HD stream at a time too. I don't care for the cable companies, but I despise the phone company. They just don't get it. | |
|   meh37
@verizon.net
| Time will tell... Of the nearly dozen people I know who've been faced with the decision to stay with Comcast/Cox or switch to FiOS, all of them have switched. Some for faster/better (TEHO) Internet, some for better TV picture quality. For all of them it was cheaper (only partially due to new customer special pricing).
Actually, though, speed wasn't the biggest consideration--most of them just hated Comcast (as do most people I know who are or have been Comcast customers). My sister is (finally) moving from dial-up to broadband; for her, it's cheaper to keep her Verizon landline and add FiOS 10/2 than get anything from Comcast (only by a few dollars, though).
Personally, I don't see much difference between one corporation and another: they all just want your money. FiOS is for the long-haul; DOCSIS 3.0 will barely compete. | |
|  |   baineschile Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Re: Time will tell... Docsis 3.0 3-band can offer up to 250mb.
Dont forget, comcast was the first to test a 1G/s switch from Maryland to NC | |
|  |  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA
| Re: Time will tell... Ah, the hypothetical not deployed technology... The GPON system that currently exists on the side of my house can offer up to 2.4 Gbit/s in a hypothetical universe, but that doesn't mean Verizon will offer that speed to home users, for a number of good reasons. Essentially, I'll believe it when I see it. | |
|  bschuler2008
join:2008-07-08 Bethlehem, PA
| Wierd as I just switched to cable on Monday Long time Verizon DSL fan. But I finally switched cuz for the same price, I get much faster download on cable. I originally switched from Cable to DSL due to price. I am disappointed in my up speed STILL.. as that is what I am looking for due to website hosting. Wish FIOS or something faster up would come into my area... as for caps, etc.. luckily for me, I got choices in my area.. I had one BAD ISP (PTD), who would monitor my line all the time. Will never accept caps, monitoring, etc.. will just go back to dial up if need be. | |
|  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Toledo, OH | Re: Wierd as I just switched to cable on Monday you and everyone else that say will go to dial-up might and then watch the prices jump upt to about $20+ a month and see where you go back to or add the extra price of the phone line plus another $20 for dial-up. | |
|  tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| part of the REAL picture. DSL line losses are not the whole picture.. subscriptions of all kinds are at risk due to the high price of EVERYTHING that skyrocketed after $4-5 gasoline did what two hijacked planes could not do to the American consumer. The oil industry hijacked the economy and is raping the consumer.
Sorry to string this along to economic theory, but THIS TIME.. isp's should be concerned that fewer customers can be from economic woes happening across the country right now.
Dsl being the least valued of services will be a near impossible sell. Good luck AT&T. You gonna need it! | |
|   got the day off
@windstream.net | Here i go again Verizon lost 133,000 ($19.99)dsl customers and Comcast lost 138,000 ($60.00) video customers and you think verizon has the problem. | |
|   rob_in_chatt Premium join:2004-09-17 Chattanooga, TN
·Comcast
| dsl my problem here in chattanooga is that i am too far from the available deployment area. 2 miles across town the damn service is available there, but not where im at. what horse shit. if i could have DSL, i would shitcan comcast in a heartbeat.
dont forget about the people that want to try DSL but cant because of lame ass excuses like the one i was fed about distance. | |
|   dslwanter Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH Premium join:2002-12-16 Lowellville, OH | U-Verse & FIOS Uverse and fios make DSL obsolete in their respective markets. | |
|  |   ssj4android Redefining Reality
join:2002-04-14 Wyoming, MI | Re: U-Verse & FIOS U-Verse IS DSL though, for most subscribers. | |
|  |  |   dslwanter Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH Premium join:2002-12-16 Lowellville, OH | Re: U-Verse & FIOS But the question is, is it classified as "DSL" in these stats? | |
|  rid0617
join:2003-07-20 Greer, SC | Not worth it Between the poor product and the even poorer customer service who would want to be part of this. Then even as technology gets cheaper they constantly raise prices and tack on fees. Who wants more of that? | |
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