 
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
4 edits | People will still complain... ...the latest complaint will be that the non-redirect servers should be the default ones...it doesn't matter that changing DNS settings, whether you're on DHCP or static, takes all of 10 seconds. No matter what DSLx does, there will still be those LOOKING for something to complain about.
Meanwhile, what other ISP is this responsive to their customers? I can't think of any. The title of this article should be DSLx INSTANTLY responded to complaints.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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braynes
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME | Re: People will still complain... I gotta ask? did you fail out of bed this morning and hit your head?
Bruce | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: People will still complain... Sorry for not jumping on the whining like a schoolgirl about taking 10 seconds to change DNS settings bandwagon.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: People will still complain... said by oliphant  :Sorry for not jumping on the whining like a schoolgirl about taking 10 seconds to change DNS settings bandwagon. How bout for "not thinking ahead"?
It takes resources to run a DNS server. I'm that DSLX is professional enough of a firm that the IP address given is a virtual IP for at least a pair of servers (if not, what happens to their customers if that server goes belly-up?)
So, what happens when everybody hops off of their advertisement-supported DNS servers and hops onto and overwhelms the non-advertising supported ones? You think they're going to go out of their way to continue to size them to meet demand? What's their incentive to do so? Certainly not advertising partnership dollars.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: People will still complain... If it gets busy they'll add more. What if a giant meteor destroys the data center. We can play ...what if... games all day long. Instead we should focus on what is currently going on.
I'm sure they're shocked by the backlash over this redirect thing, but they should be commended for the speed at which our complaints were addressed and the manner in which it was corrected which is the non-redirect DNS server availability should users wish to take the 10 seconds to change their DNS settings to this new IP.
I'm simply saying that we can continue to beat DSLx over the head for an issue that was resolved virtually the same day it came up, or we can be satisfied that DSLx listens to their subscribers and not continuing to punish them for doing so.
As for their incentive to continue being responsive...is us subscribers not jumping ship for the incumbents. They at DSLx know full well that the ONLY reason they're able to charge a premium for their service is for the service they provide. If they deteriorate into a typical whore ISP like Verizon or SBC, there is NO reason for us to continue paying the premium. George understands that, and certainly the parent company now understands this.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| said by oliphant :Sorry for not jumping on the whining like a schoolgirl about taking 10 seconds to change DNS settings bandwagon. That's OK, you seem to have found something else to whine about. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: People will still complain... So have you evidently. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: People will still complain... said by oliphant :So have you evidently. I never claimed I was above it  | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY | Isn't complaining about complaining...still complaining? | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: People will still complain... said by garagerock :Isn't complaining about complaining...still complaining? Why yes, I believe it is.
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I have tried to see things from your point of view, but no matter how hard I try, or what I do, I just can't get my head that far up my ass. | |
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| oliphant are you getting paid by dslextreme post this bs? only few people will know about unpublished dns. If you check their website don't have unpublished listed anywhere so how are millions of people supposed to take 10 sec to change to one of dns that is not being redirected? right they can't as they don't know about it. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: People will still complain... Oh yeah, .83 and a new balloon? Why, you jealous?
Meanwhile DSLx has gotten rid of the redirects all together so you can start sleeping well at night.
Now you can go find something else to whine about.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: People will still complain... said by oliphant :Oh yeah, .83 and a new balloon? Why, you jealous? Meanwhile DSLx has gotten rid of the redirects all together so you can start sleeping well at night. Now you can go find something else to whine about. Don't you see the difference in defending DSLx once the got rid of the redirects and before? Or do you just defend anything that any corporate entity does? | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: People will still complain... Before posting about someone's post history, perhaps you should bother reading their post history.
What I see here is a bunch of whiners, many of whom aren't even DSLx subscribers, complaining about something they know nothing about. Case in point were those in NorCal complaining about the redirects when the redirects were only for the SoCal servers.
There are those with legitimate complaints about various things and there are those who bitch just for the sake of bitching. My comments are directed to the latter.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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masterwolfe2
Resident Redneck
join:2001-03-07
Hiawassee, GA | What about Granny? And is grandma technical enough to know how to change her DNS server settings?
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DirecTV R15, ETC DSL | |
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masterwolfe2
Resident Redneck
join:2001-03-07
Hiawassee, GA
| Re: What about Granny? Coincidence that suddenly, just above the story, a whole column of 'smooth ride' reviews for this very ISP??
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Dishplayer 625, ETC DSL | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: What about Granny? Many of those users dropped their ratings to protest the redirects, but an ISP has to suck pretty bad ratings wise before it's no longer a "smooth ride". A few ticks off "services" and the like isn't enough to do it.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: What about Granny? Check PM. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by masterwolfe2 :Coincidence that suddenly, just above the story, a whole column of 'smooth ride' reviews for this very ISP?? They were probably smooth rides before and the users updated them to add negative feedback about their displeasure with DSLX's latest money making venture.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Re: What about Granny? doh you beat me to it didn't see your post before I replied...I agree, it's probably just bumping them up when they update.
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The question isn't "what are we going to do," the question is "what aren't we going to do?" - Ferris | |
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deblin
Dark Side of the Moon
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
Middletown, DE
| Updates to reviews probably bump them to the top. Since people probably didn't ding DSLX in all areas, overall the reviews are probably still "smooth ride" so they're showing up as such.
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The question isn't "what are we going to do," the question is "what aren't we going to do?" - Ferris | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | said by masterwolfe2 :And is grandma technical enough to know how to change her DNS server settings? Is grandma technical enough to give a crap about redirects? My guess is someone like that who is not able to change their DNS would likely benefit from redirection.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Vericima
Beautiful But Deadly
Premium
join:2003-01-07
Manchester, CT | Re: What about Granny? Who benefits from being redirected to an ad partner? Besides the company that redirects and the ad partner. | |
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nbfree
join:1999-10-25
Los Angeles, CA
·SONIC.NET
·DSL EXTREME
| At Least They interact with Customers I have been a loyal (and abused) SBC DSL customer for five years. I will be switching when my one year contract is up in June 06. I've been browsing the forums from Earthlink to DSL Extreme. It seems that the DSL Extreme guys (Ari and George) are constantly responding to their customers complaints and concerns. I don't see that happening on any other forum. That kind of customer interaction is unprecedented. Particularly in today's climate of outsourced Bangalore customer service centers for DSL support.
So come June, SBC will lose me. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: At Least They interact with Customers What I don't like about these redirects is some of them try to plant spyware on my system, of course I have stuff to block it but it's just the idea. | |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs: | Do the CEO and GM of SBC post frequently in the SBC Direct forum? | |
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ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA
| Re: At Least They interact with Customers said by Bill :Do the CEO and GM of SBC post frequently in the SBC Direct forum? irrelevant, when isp try to put spyware on system you got a big problem | |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL | I highly doubt that in a larger corporation, that you'd want the CEO helping you with your computer in any way, shape or form.
My point was that the level of support was not unprecedented...not that the CEO posts. | |
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IAmTheEvilest
There Is Nothing Like A Restart
join:2001-01-03
Santa Barbara, CA
clubs:
| This shouldn't have happened in the first place The problem with this system is that it shouldn't have been the default setting in the first place. Instead, they should have made the advertising-supported search page optional for those that wanted to use it.
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The two biggest things: the universe & human stupidity --Albert Einstein | |
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MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
·Windstream
| DNS is a Networking Component, Not a Fundraiser Redirects violate the basic premise of DNS. If a name is not found then you should be informed of that. Having a catch-all, and an advertising-oriented one at that, is almost as bad as the "disguised-as-a-search" spyware. It's been a downhill spiral since Microsoft first added "friendly error messages" to IE and address bar searching. It is certainly *not* a "service" provided to customers.
All the boo-hoo over "it takes money to run a DNS server" is total nonsense. DNS is a required part of doing business as an ISP. It is not and should not be a revenue-generating component. An ISP should give its customers internet access and then get out of the way. You'd complain if they inserted ads into your email as it went through their servers but somehow doing so on a different protocol is ok?
I never understood the theory behind the 404 redirects anyway. If it isn't the site the person was looking for, they're not going to waste any time even reading the "wrong" page (much less reading or clicking on any of the advertisements); they're going to try to find the page they were looking for to start with.
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John M -Cranky network guy | |
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| wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| Re: DNS is a Networking Component, Not a Fundraiser I completely agree, but have a hard time getting worked up over an ISP doing it, as opposed to the registry for a TLD.
People have a choice not to use DSLExtreme, while they had no choice not to use Verisign's equivalent.
For the record, I think breaking DNS is undeniably stupid, but people are allowed to do whatever they like to their networks. | |
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ke9nr
Premium
join:2003-07-13
Las Vegas, NV
| said by MooJohn :Redirects violate the basic premise of DNS. If a name is not found then you should be informed of that. Having a catch-all, and an advertising-oriented one at that, is almost as bad as the "disguised-as-a-search" spyware. It's been a downhill spiral since Microsoft first added "friendly error messages" to IE and address bar searching. It is certainly *not* a "service" provided to customers. Right on!
I'm not a DSLExtreme customer, but if I were I'd probably be looking for a different provider.
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Ken
http://www.kensims.net/ | |
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anotherisp
@hifihosting.com
| paxfire Actually the \\\\\\\"fund raiser\\\\\\\" was a ikanos idea. Its a white label solution from.
»www.paxfire.com/
Its used for isp\\\\\\\'s to generate revenue.
If you have a firewall block the ip. | |
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Fishie
join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA | Great for people on BBR I wonder how many people outside of BBR will get this information so that they avoid this redirect? In the end, a good chunk of their user base (maybe majority) will still get redirected. | |
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MsGeek
We Jam Econo On This Ship, Sailor
join:2001-06-06
Panorama City, CA | If this is an example of Ikano's bright ideas... ...for DSLX, then perhaps I'll be switching to VZ as my ISP come August when my contract is up. :P | |
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investigating
|  What is an acceptable approach for financing DNS?
I would like to ask those on this discussion who can provide an unbiased (non-flame) response...
1) Does this approach present a technical problem for the end-user or is it only an ideological issue?
2) What can be done to correct technical problems that do exist?
3) Do you have other ideas for an acceptable way to generate revenue in a commodity network with low-to-no profit?
Consider, we live in a world of commercialism and capitalism where the paradigm has been to generate revenue through advertising as a way to provide free services to the consumer. DSL is expensive to provide and often generates little profit for the ISP and ASP. Admittedly, DSL is not free, but it is relatively cheap, and DNS is a component of it that is free. Cable isn't free either and still you have commercials.
It is the content providers that are making a huge profit via the bandwidth provided by the access providers. The content providers are attempting to get in on this very idea with toolbars and browser features that all have default settings to redirect domain-name errors to the provider's search site. Search based advertising is a huge market that, according to U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray, is expected to grow by $18 Billion over the next 5 years to comprise over 6% of all advertising revenue in the U.S. Who here refuses to use Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc. because they provide you a free service by selling advertising space? These content providers will attempt to capture this traffic any way they can get it, and they are willing to share the revenue with the access providers if the access providers can increase the volume of such traffic.
Is it better that these content providers benefit enormously while your access provider gets none of the benefit, or would it be better that your content provider gets a healthy piece of the pie so that they can invest in providing you better access?
If the content provider does not make this the default behavior of the network, how can they realize the financial benefits of such a service when 'granny' cannot make the changes to activate the service? Does 'granny' care, or even realize, who told her the domain name she entered is incorrect--her ISP or her browser--so as to be upset about this service? Isn't a product that assists the user in locating their intended destination a more beneficial service than a somewhat informative answer from a web proxy server, or worse, a general Internet error message from the browser?
DNS is a critical element for Internet access that is steadily under increasing stress. The growth in the volume of DNS queries continues to outpace the technology of servers. According to Mockapetris, the father of DNS, his 'own new “Mockapetris Law” ... foresees the doubling of electronic identifiers every 12 months. “We’ll see more DNS growth in the next five years than in the last 20 put together,” he predicts' [per "Internet DNS Set for Explosive Growth" in Oct 17, 2003 - On-Line News Service, »itudaily.com/home.asp?articleid=3101701]. From experience, I can assert that BIND cannot keep up with this alone. Commercial software and/or a continuously increasing investment in hardware is necessary. DNS is not free. Quite the contrary. DNS is expensive for the provider.
Does anyone have a better idea how to finance this core service? Would you prefer that the ISPs increase the cost of access?
Your feedback is of great value to me. Thank you. | |
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what was that??