Despite Piracy, NIN Experiment Still Nets $750,000Deluxe edition sells out despite rabid trading of Ghosts album 05:06PM Wednesday Mar 05 2008 by Karl Bodetags: Fileswapping · business · bandwidth · contentAs we mentioned Monday, Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the bands latest album, Ghosts, for free via BitTorrent. He's also selling the whole album, DRM free, for $5 via the band's website. On one side, while the Torrent trackers are jam-packed with people trading the album in all version qualities, the band also says they've sold all 2,500 copies of the deluxe edition of the album. At $300 a pop, Reznor pulled in $750,000 in two days -- despite rabid "pirated" distribution of the album. While a common refrain is something to the effect of "yeah, but this only works with mega-bands," Techdirt argues there's no reason smaller bands can't take advantage of the same business model to become bigger acts: Now, before some people start complaining that this will only work for big name bands, there's an easy response to that: these days, the way to become a big band is to get your music out there. Newer bands can easily give away music as a promotion to get attention, build up a following, and throw in these types of options as they get bigger. Besides, smaller, less-well-known acts still have plenty of other offerings they can use to make money, even as a smaller band. With the real money these days being in touring and merchandising, smart artists are using the music as a promotional tool to promote the artist brand instead of the commodity itself. The labels may not like this because it turns their previous cash-cow business model on its head (and they don't profit as much from touring and merchandising), but if broadband music piracy cannot be stopped, it's not like they'll have much of a choice.
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p92389
@verizon.net | Wow... "With the real money these days being in touring and merchandising, smart artists are using the music as a promotional tool to promote the artist brand instead of the commodity itself."
...just like the ol' days. | |
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idjk
@bellsouth.net | Re: Wow... I saw something on tv the other day about 'Bare naked ladies' ? band that had gone solo and were making more money and drawing more fans without the big publishing firm they had. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Batavia, IL
| I paid the 5 bucks 5 bucks for 36 songs in a zip?
A little slow on the download yesterday, but a deal anyway you look at it...and Adrian Belew too.
Go Trent!
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
| | robertg1234
join:2004-04-19
Palo Alto, CA
edit:
March 5th, @10:43PM
| Re: I paid the 5 bucks said by batageek  :...and Adrian Belew too. Adrian Belew is still alive??? And I though watching Grace Slick sing White Rabbit at Woodstock made me feel old! Knowing Adrian is still around makes me feel waaay too old now.
I still remember his Big Electric Cat video all but too well! | |
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jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and RichK1957
Premium
join:2004-12-20
Port Jefferson Station, NY
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
edit:
March 5th, @05:17PM
| I'd pay. If I liked the group, I would pay for the download.
Why wouldn't I, at $5, its a steal compared to buying the CD from the record company! (At three times the price!)
And I bet you the "group" is seeing more money this way than from the royalties they get from the record companies..
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
| bjack
join:2006-01-30
Reading, MA
| Nobody pays for music Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free, unless they are huge fans and want the extra bonus stuff like NIN was selling to try to get some money. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT NIN IS DOING IS RIPPING OFF THEIR HARD CORE FANS TO GET SOME MONEY WHILE GIVING IT AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CASUAL LISTENERS!???!?!?!??
Great job Trent - nice way to treat your fans???
What about these issues:
A. So if you give away your music, then you have absolutely no money to start planning and promoting a tour.
B. People say that you get money from touring. Okay, so what is you suck live, as many bands do, or are unable to really set up a profitable tour due to the fact that it's not always easy to do unless you get a proven following who is willing to pay. | |
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Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Panama City, FL | If you notice, most of the bands that suck live are the cookie cutter pop bands that the studios push out. | |
| | BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by bjack :Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free Then they are cheap and need to ask the manager at Burger King for a raise. Seriously artists have a right to SOME compensation. WTF is wrong with people? If Amazon reduced it's price of DRM free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal. Frankly if you don't think a song you are going to listen to hundreds maybe even thousands of times over the years is worth 99¢ then it's not really worth owning in the first place.
This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense. If something sucks why do you even want it even if it's free? If I gave you a dog crap sandwich would you eat it just because it was free? | |
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MIRV
join:2000-12-01
Louisville, KY | Re: Nobody pays for music It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free? | |
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fractalman93
Progressive Music Fan
Premium
join:2004-08-02
Newport News, VA | Re: Nobody pays for music To show your @%$#ing support for the musicians!! | |
| | | | | | | | | bigskank
join:2002-06-07
Norman, OK
| said by MIRV :It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free? Makes perfect since. That's why the bottled water market is doing so badly. I mean, who would pay $3.00 for something they can turn on their tap and get for next to nothing.
Oh, wait... | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Nobody pays for music said by bigskank :said by MIRV :It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free? Makes perfect since. That's why the bottled water market is doing so badly. I mean, who would pay $3.00 for something they can turn on their tap and get for next to nothing. Oh, wait... You can buy bottled water for $0.05 if you buy it in 24-36 pack cases...  And clearly SPRING water IS superior in taste to tap water which has a chlorine taste to it. Not all bottled water is spring water.
-Tzale | |
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Water
@oshean.org | Re: Nobody pays for music And not all tap water is chlorinated or city water. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Nobody pays for music said by Water :
And not all tap water is chlorinated or city water.
Well I'm talking from my perspective and most people's perspectives who can't stand the taste of tap water... If you get your water from a well, then maybe it isn't... But that is an exception, and even then there might be a distinct mineral taste. And not to mention sometimes bottled water is just "convenient."
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not real conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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| | | | GPSrob
join:2007-05-21
| Because you obviously don't get the same thing.
Buying it indicates that it has value to you and in participating in the trade of money for goods you know you're contributing to the welfare of the person that made something you enjoy. Particularly in this direct method when 100% of the revenue hits the original artist who then pays his costs of business as opposed to the other way around when the artist gets paid last and mostly screwed which is actually a disincentive to buy it in the traditional method. | |
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C_
Kill The Socialists
Premium
join:2001-03-19
Aurora, IL
·Comcast
| said by MIRV :It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free? 500,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
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"and no matter how drunk you get .. don't lick the wall socket to test polarity..." | |
| | | | | maxpower
join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI | Re: Nobody pays for music quote:
500,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
Proof? | |
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Armaina
Not every saint is a fool
Premium
join:2002-11-06
Tempe, AZ | said by ,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
[/BQUOTE :
And what exactly would be the point of that? | |
| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Nobody pays for music said by Armaina :And what exactly would be the point of that? e-Peen contests, duh. 
Honestly, no...I can't even really make up a good reason why he'd inflate his own figures. | |
| | | | | | | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Because of morals and knowing that you aren't entitled to the work of others for free.
Although you might not have any morals and your friends might not either, there are a significant number of people in this country that are honest and want to pay a fair price for their entertainment. Maybe when you are a little older you will understand that if no one pays anyone else for their work there is NO economy. Every exchange of money creates jobs and if everyone was like you there would be no jobs. | |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
 ·Speakeasy
| I could probably get most, if not all, of the songs I want for free if I want mp3 (which I don't really want) but I still buy cd's - not a ton but when someone wants to get me a gift then I ask for money for music.
I don't like current music so most of the stuff I buy is older (classic/progressive rock) - guys who wrote the vast majority of their songs (music and lyrics). I have no issues with buying CD's - although I would have no issues with buying the CD directly from the band.
I know many others who prefer cd's as well - they have huge collections and most could probably be gotten for free. | |
| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by BF69 :This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense. *shrugs* The line with me is "the music sucks, so I don't buy it". I may P2P to determine the rate/amount of suck, but in the end, if the music sucks out loud, it all gets thrown off my players, computer, everything. | |
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Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
| said by BF69 :If Amazon reduced its price of DRM-free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal. True, but IMO the number of people stealing at that price will drammatically increase while the number of people buying music legitimately will increase.
There is a category of people out there who refuse to pay for anything no matter how cheap it is. This is not the category that the music industry should be focusing on. Even if RIAA manages to shut down all the channels via which these people steal, what have they really accomplished for the artists? IMO absolutely nothing. If these people can no longer steal, it doesn't mean that they will go out and start buying music instead. They will simply do without. So RIAA would have simply wasted their time, efforts and money while giving their members absolutely nothing in return.
Another group are hardcore fans. These guys will pretty much buy everything their favorite band(s) put(s) out, no matter how much the cost. No need to focus on these either, as you will be preaching to the choir.
On the other hand, let's focus on the working class category. These are the people who have some money to spend on entertainment and some free time on their hands. Now, if the music they want costs an arm and a leg and comes with restrictions, for some it might be worth the time, efforts and risks associated with trying to steal it. However, lower the price to a reasonable level, and trying to steal it becomes pointless for many. If for a small amount of money you can get the real deal, not have to worry about getting caught and use your time for something more interesting, than why bother stealing it? That is the group that I think the music industry should be focusing on. Again, you can't totally rid the world of piracy, but you can minimize to the point that it becomes insignificant.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL | Re: Nobody pays for music Except we're talking about RIAA. and you're assuming anyone there has any common sense. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by BF69 :said by bjack :Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free Then they are cheap and need to ask the manager at Burger King for a raise. Seriously artists have a right to SOME compensation. WTF is wrong with people? If Amazon reduced it's price of DRM free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal. Frankly if you don't think a song you are going to listen to hundreds maybe even thousands of times over the years is worth 99¢ then it's not really worth owning in the first place. This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense. If something sucks why do you even want it even if it's free? If I gave you a dog crap sandwich would you eat it just because it was free? Well said... And I'm behind the P2P Revolution, when there is an ARGUMENT to be behind it... When groups set their prices low like this, then obviously I'm not going to side with some loser who thinks everything should be free!
They're the same people who think that me sitting down and coding an application in C++ for a year or two isn't worth $19.99!
-Tzale | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | NIN didn't rip off their fans, the fans that stole the music did.
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Vista ~ Less functional every day! | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul 2008 - Proud Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| said by bjack :Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free, unless they are huge fans and want the extra bonus stuff like NIN was selling to try to get some money. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT NIN IS DOING IS RIPPING OFF THEIR HARD CORE FANS TO GET SOME MONEY WHILE GIVING IT AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CASUAL LISTENERS!???!?!?!?? Great job Trent - nice way to treat your fans??? What about these issues: A. So if you give away your music, then you have absolutely no money to start planning and promoting a tour. B. People say that you get money from touring. Okay, so what is you suck live, as many bands do, or are unable to really set up a profitable tour due to the fact that it's not always easy to do unless you get a proven following who is willing to pay. Oh come on... The main argument behind music piracy is that the cost of a CD is outrageous for what you get ($20 for 1-3 "good" songs and the rest filler)... This is what fed the P2P Revolution a few years ago... With deals like these $5 for a CD, that argument no longer holds true.. They have to charge money ya' know, it's only fair... Would I pay? Maybe if I really liked the artist, but since I'm a poor student, I could use my money in other ways.
-Tzale | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Charter Pipeline
| Two sides to this "As we mentioned Monday, Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the bands latest album, Ghosts, for free via BitTorrent. He's also selling the whole album, DRM free, for $5 via the band's website. On one side, while the Torrent trackers are jam-packed with people trading the album in all version qualities, the band also says they've sold all 2,500 copies of the deluxe edition of the album."
So,the first 9 songs are free, and the whole album is only $5, yet BitTorrent is packed with people who decided that free or $5 that goes entirely to the band and not any mafIAA organization is still too much to pay?
I'm confused. I though the above is precisely what all who pirate pine for yet once they get that, they still continue to pirate? I must be missing something.
--
"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Two sides to this said by DHRacer :I'm confused. I though the above is precisely what all who pirate pine for yet once they get that, they still continue to pirate? I must be missing something. You still have the "radio effect". People that want filler for their shuffle lists. That is, they like a song or group enough for it to take up storage real estate (at any given bit-rate/format) but not enough that they'd want to pay for it. This is much the same reason that people listen to a lot of garbage on the radio that you would never see in their personal record collections.
And, no, just because I understand it doesn't mean I condone it.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Panama City, FL | Re: Two sides to this I am one of those people.
Theres also a ton of users who have owned a ton of music throughout the years on older formats and just want it in an easy to listen to format, and dont feel like buying it again. | |
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Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Panama City, FL
·Comcast
| The point is not to make money on every copy, its to make enough money on legit sales to offset the "loss" due to file sharing.
Remember, people share those crappy rap songs all day long. But those rap artists are still walking around caked in gold driving vehicles with more shiny surfaces than a mirror. The difference is, Trent gets ALL the profits, where as Generic Rap Artist A only sees whatever the studio gives him. | |
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rosco
Lumbergh
Premium
join:2003-11-10
Catskill, NY
| said by DHRacer :"As we mentioned Monday, Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the bands latest album, Ghosts, for free via BitTorrent. He's also selling the whole album, DRM free, for $5 via the band's website. On one side, while the Torrent trackers are jam-packed with people trading the album in all version qualities, the band also says they've sold all 2,500 copies of the deluxe edition of the album." So,the first 9 songs are free, and the whole album is only $5, yet BitTorrent is packed with people who decided that free or $5 that goes entirely to the band and not any mafIAA organization is still too much to pay? I'm confused. I though the above is precisely what all who pirate pine for yet once they get that, they still continue to pirate? I must be missing something. I wouldn't say that it is what "all who pirate pine for"..a lot of the pirates just want the free stuff and will download it as long its still possible.
this just proves that there is still real money to be made right alongside the piracy, despite what the RIAA would have you believe. People who purchase albums will continue to do so, so its great that with this approach, the band makes a lot more per album then through traditional recording contracts. | |
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TuPaK
join:2002-07-21
San Gabriel, CA | So who invited Trent Reznor to Oink? | |
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pickle
@charter.com | flac I paid the $5 and downloaded the flac version. Its nice to see bands use a lossless format. | |
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zbrett
Premium
join:2000-07-22
Lombard, IL | Re: flac FLAC? I'm there. That was my issue with Radiohead's offer, the MP3s offered were at a low bit rate. I ended up buying the In Rainbows on CD just for that reason.
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Chairman of the Bored... | |
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XBL2007
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | Cut out the middle man Good for him, this is the way it should be, cut out the middle man and sell directly to the public. | |
| | BigVe
join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI | Re: Cut out the middle man Can you see what would happen if most artists would do like Trent?? Answer: No more RIAA | |
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Bagnon
Snoogans
join:2000-11-19
St Catharines, ON | The future. 3/4 mill? Nice paycheck. I'm sure it will scale to over a million easy. Good for NIN. This is exactly how it should be. I'd really like to know how Radiohead did with their free/pay album.
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----gg's and happy gaming---- | |
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TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON
·Bell Sympatico
edit:
March 5th, @08:45PM
| bye bye RIAA :) $750,000 in two days
Is that number right?
If this is the case I hope all artists of any level will follow that business model.
I can't wait to see those gangsters losing all their jobs, waiting in line at the unemployment office LOL.
Soon I hope, it's called karma 
RIAA, CRIA, MPAA R.I.P 2008
--
« C’est les meilleures saucisses à hot-dog 100% naturel. Pas de gras trans, pas d’OGM, pas de cholestérol, pas de viande. » | |
| Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Erie, PA
| ... I wonder if movie producers could find a model like this, but would make the kind of money necessary to cover the sometimes multi-hundred million dollar production costs. I'd hate to see the movie industry reduced to low-budget B movies. | |
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TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON | Re: ... Well if Trent made almost a million in 2 days with a few songs I think the payback for a movie would be enormous. | |
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LinkTech
Former Linksys Tech
VIP
join:2002-07-02
Mission Viejo, CA | Re: ... That would actually be a great business model. Give away the first 45 minutes and pay for the ending! | |
| | | | Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Erie, PA
| ... Funny and creative. But I don't think I'd break out the popcorn for the 'first 45.' It destroys the experience. Who knows, though. Maybe it'd work anyway. If it got enough people to view it and rave about it.... | |
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HEMIDART68
join:2000-12-13
Cypress, CA | right on! I think that's awesome what Trent did. He netted $750k by ONLY selling the 2500 limited edition sets which doesn't include the 5,10,75 buck d/l. | |
| | trickyx2
join:2004-11-18
Sterling, IL
| WTG Trent! I personally bought the $10 one so I could have a hard copy, this is the first CD I've bought in a while. The though did cross my mind to pirate the whole thing, but I figured, Trent was willing to cut a good deal, so why not take it.
So in all 16.99(10+6.99 ship) well spent | |
| 
Illiniwek
Go Illini
join:2002-08-19
Draper, UT
clubs:
| Trent's got the idea! I'd guess that the sales of the "ultra-deluxe" package alone will cover most of his production costs for the entire album (since he does almost all of the work himself). The 5/10/75 dollar options will be pure profit. Digital distribution costs him next to nothing, and he's adding $6.99 to the physical deliveries... enough to cover the cost of the media and shipping.
If he unloads a million units he's seeing revenue of at least $5M, and probably much more with the upgraded versions. That's mostly profit, and not one cent to a record company.
How many albums would he have to sell under regular distribution methods through a record company to net $5M?
I think the genius is getting the music out there cheaply and making money on "upgrades" and touring. BTW, if you've never seen a NIN show, it is WELL worth the price of admission. | |
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Ahpuch
@verizon.net
| Money to the Artists When Tupac Shakur died, his holdings in his estate were about $200,000. But, to this day the Labels are still making money off his works, New remixed album here, new cut and missing tracks there... Never ends. He made what 3 real albums but has like 10 published. His estate, now don't quote me I don't know for sure, has probably not seen anything from those other 7 or so albums that were released posthumously. Kudos to Trent (local boy and all) Hope others will follow. That's a bands dream anyway is it not. Touring and selling Tee's with their likeness to everybody anyway. How much did the Stones make off their Wheels of Steel tour, like 145 million or so. | |
| | madrhino
join:2004-07-03
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: Money to the Artists said by Ahpuch :
When Tupac Shakur died, his holdings in his estate were about $200,000.
Even the most devout fanatic can't call any of that crap music.
--
Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
| | 
ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
| "Turn Up The Torrent" Torrent is the new radio!
NIN would have never got this played on any public broadcasting radio station. Torrent proves that if the public has a chance to hear something other than a list the public will buy it.
Ultimately the actions of the RIAA work against artists and the music industry.
--
PentiumD 930 DC 3.0GHz - 4GB PC2-4200 - 300GB SATA - BFG Nvidia 7950GT OC 512MB
- Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600(1101MCE) - Vista Ultimate SP1 32bit | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC |  Hard Time
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