 
jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
1 edit | gsm I tend to agree with this snip it and the article. i wish the states was on one standard though (maybe GSM). I like my cdma phone but a sim card would be nice and an unlocked phone would also be just as nice. What technology do they use in japan and china? CDMA? What high speed network are they talking about that is faster than some us broadband lines here in the states?
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
1 edit | Re: gsm said by jgkolt  :I tend to agree with this snip it and the article. i wish the states was on one standard though (maybe GSM). I like my cdma phone but a sim card would be nice and an unlocked phone would also be just as nice. There is a such a card in the CDMA world. It is called an R-UIM (see »www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-ruim-card.htm) but no US carrier uses it and probably never will since it would require them giving up some of the control they currently have over their users. Plus at $25 to perform an ESN swap, they would also wind up losing a bit of revenue.
The #1 reason is have T-Mobile is because of the SIM card and the ability to swap it between various phones I have.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| Re: gsm said by n2jtx :said by jgkolt :I tend to agree with this snip it and the article. i wish the states was on one standard though (maybe GSM). I like my cdma phone but a sim card would be nice and an unlocked phone would also be just as nice. There is a such a card in the CDMA world. Hence the "but" in his statement.
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
| | tnewell
Premium
join:2001-02-12
Columbus, GA | Japan uses GSM 3G network. www.gsmworld.com I also believe that this is the high speed network they are talking about. | |
| | PseudoCrow
join:2001-11-26
Saint Louis, MO
| I just returned from China. Beijing and Shanghai are served by China Mobile, a GSM network. An unlocked tri-band phone works well with a prepaid China Mobile SIM; both can be had on E-bay here in the States. I was climbing the Great Wall when my phone rang and was so surprised that I dropped it (crunch). I replaced it with a phone from the China Mobile store - same deal; unlocked tri-band phone (Motorola V3; about $150).
Calls on the China SIM were much cheaper than using Verizon roaming - I'm not even sure Verizon would work over there. Calls to the States were about $.10 per minute. Plus I had a local Shanghai number so people could call me without incurring international charges at their end.
I was impressed - a nice reliable system that everyone uses. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| The Europeans got it right The fact that your phone isn't tied to a provider is a HUGE benefit to the consumer. And as a part of that, the providers don't lock you in. Of course, my experience in the UK taught me that most people do prepaid, so I'm not really sure what the monthly rates are. I do know my colleagues spend about 20 pounds a month for virtually unlimited minutes. You don't get deals like that in the US.
The problem in the US is that we didn't choose a good standard. GSM is a worldwide standard, and if the megacorps weren't so greedy here, we would have the benefits of the european system.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: The Europeans got it right said by karlmarx :The fact that your phone isn't tied to a provider is a HUGE benefit to the consumer. Not always. You cannot take a Verizon phone to Cingular and vice versa. For most people I know, this isn't a big deal because by the time they need to upgrade a phone, their current phone is so beat up anyway that they have no desire to retain it.
said by karlmarx : And as a part of that, the providers don't lock you in. They don't lock you in here either. No carrier requires you to get a contract provided you are willing to pay full price for the phone like they do in Europe. For most people, contracts are not an issue at all, especially when they can get a phone for free.
said by karlmarx :The problem in the US is that we didn't choose a good standard. GSM is a worldwide standard, and if the megacorps weren't so greedy here, we would have the benefits of the european system. CDMA-based data standards are far superior to most GSM-based data solutions. Even current 3G GSM solutions are based in part on how CDMA does things currently. Furthermore, more countries now have cell phone providers which offer CDMA-based service in addition to GSM-based offerings.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | jervin123
join:2005-04-14
Philadelphia, PA | Re: The Europeans got it right Also atleast us GSM/ 3GSM users don't have to pay royalties to Qualcom  open source phones are best. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: The Europeans got it right said by jervin123 :Also atleast us GSM/ 3GSM users don't have to pay royalties to Qualcom Qualcomm still gets royalties from UMTS, just not as much as they do from CDMA2000.
-SC
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"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by pnh102 :No carrier requires you to get a contract provided you are willing to pay full price for the phone like they do in Europe. Unfortunately, this is not true...no major US carrier (with the possible exception of Cingular, who I know used to do this IF you didn't mind losing free mobile-to-mobile) will sell new postpaid service without a contract even if you bring your own phone.
-SC
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"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune | |
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AOLBites
join:2002-11-10
Lakewood, OH | Re: The Europeans got it right Wrong sprint offers a month to month plan where there inst a contract. but you do have to pay almost full price for your phone. You get 50 dollars off the unactivated price.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by roamer1 :Unfortunately, this is not true...no major US carrier (with the possible exception of Cingular, who I know used to do this IF you didn't mind losing free mobile-to-mobile) will sell new postpaid service without a contract even if you bring your own phone. I bought a phone outright from Cingular in 2004 and retained free mobile-to-mobile.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by karlmarx :my experience in the UK taught me that most people do prepaid In the US, something like 80% of wireless users are on postpaid with only 20% on prepaid, while in most of the rest of the world, prepaid users make up half or more of total subs. A lot of this is the fault of US carriers, who for the most part treat prepaid customers like third-class scum, charging much higher per-minute rates and offering little or nothing in the way of data features besides ringtones. Heck, Sprint doesn't even sell prepaid under its own brand and, aside from a short stint in Wal*Mart, never has!
-SC
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"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| said by karlmarx :The problem in the US is that we didn't choose a good standard. GSM is a worldwide standard, and if the megacorps weren't so greedy here, we would have the benefits of the european system. Two of the four major US carriers are GSM... 
IMO, the major problems with the US wireless market aren't the fault of the hodgepodge of technologies the US has -- many Caribbean and Latin American countries, Israel, New Zealand, China, and quite a few other places have both GSM and CDMA, and in some cases even iDEN too. Weak regulation, the "control freak" mentality exhibited by some carriers (namely VZW), American technophobia, and the like are more likely to blame.
-SC
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"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune | |
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
2 edits | said by karlmarx :The fact that your phone isn't tied to a provider is a HUGE benefit to the consumer. And as a part of that, the providers don't lock you in. Not true, unless I'm misunderstanding your post. If you want a unlocked phone, then indeed you pay it full price. However, if you want a $400 phone for $50, then your GSM provider:
- simlock and providerlock the phone they send you
- add a 12 or 24 month additional commitment to your contract
For those getting new contracts, it also usually requires 24month commitments to have the best deals (for exemple, idf you get 24 month contract instead of 12, you get 30 SMS free per month, etc...)
Regardless of those limitations, I still prefer the GSM approach to lock your contract to a SIM rather than to a phone. If I somehow break my phone (actually, I passed my old siemens through the washing machine, results not cool  ), I just take the SIM out and pop it into and old backup phone, and I'm back in business.
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"the two most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." (Harlan Ellison) | |
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93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
| All I care about... ...is that the cellphone can be used reliably to make phone calls and won't break if it's dropped. It doesn't have to take photos, play music, videos or games, give me driving directions, bark like a dog, or dispense personal lubricant.
- Dan
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"That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: All I care about... said by 93254336 :...is that the cellphone can be used reliably to make phone calls and won't break if it's dropped. It doesn't have to take photos, play music, videos or games, give me driving directions, bark like a dog, or dispense personal lubricant. - Dan I agree, and I think there are many of us out there that just want a simple phone and not some razor-thin supercomputer that can belt out The Knack's "My Sharona" when the boss calls. These wireless carriers are trying to be too much by creating costly "value-added" services and options. They are just like politicians now. It takes an enormous amount of advertising to even have a chance to succeed in this market. The amount of money they spend to get noticed is outrageous. | |
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: All I care about... ""These wireless carriers are trying to be too much by creating costly "value-added" services and options. ""
.. and the end user is just as busy forking over the money to buy those value-added services and options. If you could have just 5% of the monthly incoming on ring-tones, games, and the rest, you'd never have to worry about another paycheck for the rest of your life.. and then some.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: All I care about... said by fiberguy :""These wireless carriers are trying to be too much by creating costly "value-added" services and options. "" .. and the end user is just as busy forking over the money to buy those value-added services and options. If you could have just 5% of the monthly incoming on ring-tones, games, and the rest, you'd never have to worry about another paycheck for the rest of your life.. and then some. The problem is that there is little choice for people that do not want these extras. It's like every car on the lot having a DVD player and satellite radio. If I'm not directly paying for these options, I'm indirectly paying for them in an effort for these wireless carriers to recoup their costs. I suppose it could be thought of as bundled technology. Someone will seize the opportunity and create phones and services for us boring folks that just want a no-nonsense mobile phone; "phone" being the operative word. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: All I care about... I dunno.. I, for the longest time, had nothing but a cell phone. You pressed in a sequence of numbers, then send, and end and that was it. I can still have that, as anyone can, so long as they don't buy the extra services.
I think it's greatly inaccurate to say that you have 'little choice'.. No one is forcing you to purchase just phone service if that's all you want. I see a few things wrong in your thinking:
1) you think that you're subsidizing an extra service in your plain package. The fact is that these extras ARE where they make their money - it doesn't need you to subsidize anything. People are paying money hand over fist for these extras with out you.
2) no one is going to seize the opportunity to loose money and sell just phone service. If you look at MetroPCS, the unlimited phone service starting at a low flat rate, many people take the extras.
3) I to this day have plain phone service with Nextel. I have dial tone, two way talk, and the ONLY thing I added on was the text option/internet for mail. Again, that was an add on.
People like to take the easy route and think that they are paying for everything that is in the world one way or another and it's simply not true. And, if that's what you think , then the ONLY way not to is to make everything a Yugo.. not allow anyone to have any luxury... I think you know how far that's going to go. The truth is if you aren't buying the extras, you're not only not getting them, you're not paying for them.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: All I care about... I think you are missing my point. It's not just about the services, it's the phones that are sold because of these services. These expensive, internet-ready devices with fancy color displays are the standard, not the exception for those that want luxurious, feature-rich, social status symbols. Is it an mp3 player, a camera, a personal digital assistant, a web browser, a video game, a gps unit, or a friggin' phone?
A Nissan Sentra is absolutely fine for my commute to work and to the grocery store. I don't need an Enzo Ferrari, even with a million dollar instant rebate. It's very hard to find a phone without many of the features built-in that do not interest me. And despite what you suggest, we are subsidizing the costs to develop and distribute these high-end devices. I'm quite certain that I am not burning a hole in Sprint's pocket by not taking advantage of my phones capabilities. In fact, I am probably getting less of a value by not taking a more expensive, feature-laden package. It's still my cheapest option, but not the best value.
Come on, these are mostly the same guys that sell us TV and internet services too. If you just want to watch the news, you're going to have to get a digital box that has a minimum of 60 channels available. You don't have to get HBO, On Demand service, or a digital video recorder, but that is what makes the most money. My Platinum package and bundled internet service is not covering the cost of the poor sap that just wants basic cable. In fact, I'm paying less per channel. I feel bad for those that don't want all the doodads with TV services, because it has driven the costs way up. It's the same with cell phones and that service. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: All I care about... I hate to tell you this, but I think you need to take a good look at actual numbers and figures. You will find you are way off course in your assesment. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: All I care about... said by fiberguy :I hate to tell you this, but I think you need to take a good look at actual numbers and figures. You will find you are way off course in your assesment. I guess there is no excuse not to look at the numbers more closely, since I work for the NPD Group, and the major wireless carriers are some of our best clients. | |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: All I care about... said by jmn1207 :said by fiberguy :I hate to tell you this, but I think you need to take a good look at actual numbers and figures. You will find you are way off course in your assesment. I guess there is no excuse not to look at the numbers more closely, since I work for the NPD Group, and the major wireless carriers are some of our best clients. and I had an Ahi Salad today.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: All I care about... Hope lunch was good.
Where I work and what I do is relative to this discussion.
I work intimately with these numbers on a daily basis. I attend meeting with psychologists from Sprint-Nextel that discuss marketing trends and consumer research derived from our projected, surveyed, or actual POS data.
The wireless carriers are in it to make the most profit. Unfortunately, for those of us who only need a simple phone with no frills, we cannot escape from the impact of added costs that are inevitably being created in pursuit of customer-grabbing new services and features. Services in general could be a lot cheaper for all if there was not so much energy put into developing new features and designing snazzy new phones that can utilize them.
I'm not suggesting that this business model is wrong, it's just not in my best interest. | |
| | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: All I care about... I work in the industry that I discuss as well.. unfortunately, around these parts, the natives always know more than you because.. well, you're a paid mouth piece..
I will say, like you, I have no use for any of the other services. For the longest time, I had a Nextel i58 .. what does that tell you? The ONLY reason I moved to an i870 was because I needed the blue tooth headset. Unfortunately, Nextel doesn't have a large range of phones.. I wound up with their top of the line for just for blue tooth.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown | |
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burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI
| I'm with you. All I need it to do is make and take calls. Interesting thin is that where I work, we're not even allowed to bring in a cell phone with a camera; it's hard to find phones without cameras.
At my last job, we weren't allowed to take cell phones with cameras into a lot of customer facilities either...
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"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." | |
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Armaina
Not every saint is a fool
Premium
join:2002-11-06
Tempe, AZ
| said by 93254336 :...is that the cellphone can be used reliably to make phone calls and won't break if it's dropped. It doesn't have to take photos, play music, videos or games, give me driving directions, bark like a dog, or dispense personal lubricant. - Dan Exactly. I hate the bells and whistles that now seem to come standard with any phone. I don't -need- a camera, or gps, or mp3 player, yet now I can hardly find a phone that doesn't have those features, and is also reliable
I am pleased with my simple LG but.. I really don't need all the features. | |
| jervin123
join:2005-04-14
Philadelphia, PA
| Different cultures, difernet uses I think that since everyone is from a diffrent background that we have different uses, for instance last september a US network for the first time hit 5 billion text messeges in a month with the phillipines in 2003/2004 using 300-500 million texts a day. it just depends on the economy how people will be using their phones. | |
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anon555
@optonline.net | Korea The technology that they are talking about in Korea is called WiBro providing 30-50 mbps. Its just a modified mobile WiMAX. | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Flip phones but no other phones for the deals! It's hard to find those great phone deals they promote that are not a flip phone. I can find 4 good package flip phones that Verizon is offering for free but I can't find a regular good package phone for free. Offer a mix of both and not just one! | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: Flip phones but no other phones for the deals! said by Jwobot :It's hard to find those great phone deals they promote that are not a flip phone. I can find 4 good package flip phones that Verizon is offering for free but I can't find a regular good package phone for free. Offer a mix of both and not just one! It's easier to find non-flip GSM phones than non-flip CDMA phones, mostly because non-flips are the preferred type of phone in most of the rest of the world.
-SC
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"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune | |
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Differences in Mobile Use Around the World