  tenpin784I Went To The Dark Side?
join:2001-03-30
New Durham, NH | hooray no more advertisements for the transition.
I can't believe how many people still lined up though and we're clueless when they didn't have TV Saturday morning.
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Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Disclaimer: These are MY comments, my employer cant be held responsible. | |
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 |  algPassionately apatheticPremium
join:2001-04-10
Houston, TX
kudos:3 | Re: hooray said by tenpin784:no more advertisements for the transition. Now our local stations are running crawlers with phone numbers/websites if you are getting poor digital reception. It just doesn't end. 
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This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. | |
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| |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: hooray said by alg:Now our local stations are running crawlers with phone numbers/websites if you are getting poor digital reception. I see nothing wrong with that. Many broadcasters had no way of knowing how well or how poorly things would work out until after the switch.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | |  tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5
 ·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| Re: hooray There are a lot of "nightlight" services. Some broadcaster's did not shut off analog cold turkey. As of Saturday analog channel is dedicated about programs about DTV conversion. I think that is a nice touch. Rather then get a blank screen viewer gets information about conversion.
»www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/82376
All in all seems to have gone pretty well. Being in a fringe area we lost several stations that had been snowy in analog that only come in once and a while on digital. This is with a high quality outdoor antenna.
/tom
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| | | |  Mac BridgerLate to the partyPremium
join:2001-01-11
West Newton, PA
 ·Cricket Broadband
 ·Comcast
| Re: hooray I know 2 stations locally are broadcasting nightlight signals. I think it's a good way to make sure people who need help call and get it.
I lost a few fringe channels and 2 there were solid on analog. One station we were supposed to lose, the other is supposed to be in the "moderate" signal range for me. That station didn't start broadcasting digital until they had to, and I think they're having difficulties now. They also switched towers with the conversion. Wouldn't it make sense to do that BEFORE the deadline so you can ensure it works?
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Fight Cancer! Join DSLR's Team Discovery | |
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| | | |  nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by tschmidt:There are a lot of "nightlight" services. Some broadcaster's did not shut off analog cold turkey. As of Saturday analog channel is dedicated about programs about DTV conversion. I think that is a nice touch. Rather then get a blank screen viewer gets information about conversion. Yeah, the stations around here are doing that. If that's a voluntary measure, it's kind of surprising that they wouldn't have mandated it.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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| | | |
1 edit | there's one channel that's still broadcasting analog...it's a 24/7 channel that covers how to install a converter box.
unfortunately, it's the channel that comes in the weakest, so until they axe that one channel, it's still going to be a tad iffy.
I'll be glad when the only analog channel still broadcasting are the two low power stations I can pick up. | |
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| | |  joetaxpayerI'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA | said by pnh102:said by alg:Now our local stations are running crawlers with phone numbers/websites if you are getting poor digital reception. I see nothing wrong with that. Many broadcasters had no way of knowing how well or how poorly things would work out until after the switch. I thought there was no "poor digital" not like weak analog. Either you get a signal or not. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: hooray said by joetaxpayer:said by pnh102:said by alg:Now our local stations are running crawlers with phone numbers/websites if you are getting poor digital reception. I see nothing wrong with that. Many broadcasters had no way of knowing how well or how poorly things would work out until after the switch. I thought there was no "poor digital" not like weak analog. Either you get a signal or not. Poorly as in not able to anticipate the broadcast audience that no longer gets the channel due to poor signal strength, usually the case when the channel came in weak in analog to begin with. No way of telling how many can't get it now, or if anyone gives a shit. | |
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| | | | | joetaxpayerI'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA | Re: hooray said by Network Guy:Poorly as in not able to anticipate the broadcast audience that no longer gets the channel due to poor signal strength, usually the case when the channel came in weak in analog to begin with. No way of telling how many can't get it now, or if anyone gives a shit. I meant the quote from "getting poor digital reception. " implying one can have marginal signal. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: hooray Yes, you can have marginal digital signal. It will manifest itself in pixelation, freezes or intermittent loss of reception on any particular channel. | |
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| | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by joetaxpayer:I thought there was no "poor digital" not like weak analog. Either you get a signal or not. With analog, a poor signal may result in ghosting, speckles, color issues, etc with the further you go away the worse it gets.
With digital, you really don't have those issues. If the signal is strong enough to get a picture, it should look the same and not suffer from the analog issues. However if the signal isn't strong enough, you have new issues that show up. A weak signal may be able to get there some of the time, but not always. This would be indicated by jerkyness of the video or a "no signal" type of message depending on how the TV handles it. You could also have tiling where just portions of the screen become garbled. | |
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| | | Most of the people who weren't prepared were the elderly. It's kind of hard to blame them for not being up to date with the technology world.
Most of them probably don't even care. | |
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| |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
·T-Mobile US
| said by sonicmerlin:Most of the people who weren't prepared were the elderly. It's kind of hard to blame them for not being up to date with the technology world. Most of them probably don't even care. Some of those people weren't elderly when they first heard about the digital transition 10 years ago.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by sonicmerlin:Most of the people who weren't prepared were the elderly. It's kind of hard to blame them for not being up to date with the technology world. Sorry, but that wasn't true.
Here are the real numbers on unpreparedness:
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | | Re: hooray Most of the people who weren't prepared were the Afro Americans. It's kind of hard to blame them for not being up to date with the technology world.
There, it's fixed now. | |
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| | | | | | Re: hooray "Most of the people who weren't prepared were the Afro Americans." That's not true. 2% of 75% of the population is far more people than 5% of 11% of the population. | |
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dforan
join:2000-12-09
Willoughby, OH | World Ending Nor did it end on January 1 2000
Oh well move on | |
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 baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
·Comcast
 ·magicjack.com
| Its amazing That people didnt know about this beforehand. You think with all the advertising and family members that take care of their elders, this wouldnt be as big of an issue as it was at all.
We have the DTV box for Grandma Baineschile back in Dec 2008 | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Its amazing said by baineschile:That people didnt know about this beforehand. You think with all the advertising and family members that take care of their elders, this wouldnt be as big of an issue as it was at all. We have the DTV box for Grandma Baineschile back in Dec 2008 "Nobody is going to tell ME what to do.
That is my TV and nobody else controls it" | |
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| nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by baineschile:That people didnt know about this beforehand. You think with all the advertising and family members that take care of their elders, this wouldnt be as big of an issue as it was at all. We have the DTV box for Grandma Baineschile back in Dec 2008 It was most likely less a lack of knowledge than either a perceived ability to do anything about it or a desire to do so. I know several people that figured it was just a good excuse to give up the TV habit.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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| | Typical FCC calls Consumer: My TV stopped working!!! They're telling me I have to buy a converter box or something?
FCC: Yes, that is correct. Go out and buy a converter box. They cost around $50. If you really can't afford that, we have $40 coupons available.
Consumer: I have a converter box but I lost half my channels!!!
FCC: Please hit the rescan button. kthxbai
Seriously, they could have done this with an IVR... no humans needed.
Even my technically challenged mom who can't figure out how to send an email on a good day was able to get her converter box going, as well as set up a rabbit ears on her 50" LCD and get all the stations. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Typical FCC calls said by fifty nine:Seriously, they could have done this with an IVR... no humans needed. Some mentally challenged/narcissistic people will not do it without plenty of love and attention from a call center monkey. | |
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| nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by fifty nine:Even my technically challenged mom who can't figure out how to send an email on a good day was able to get her converter box going, as well as set up a rabbit ears on her 50" LCD and get all the stations. Something funny about that statement.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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| | | Some stations aren't going to come in as well as they did in analog. This is all a non-issue anyway... | |
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| | Great "Both WiMax and LTE will offer about the same DSL-ish speed (5-6 Mbps), but bitrates could grow to 15 Mbps by 2012."
That's just sad. Places like Sweden have already defined 4G as 100 mbit/s, and will have ubiquitous coverage by 2012.
Of course in America the cartel of the Big 4 are allowed to underserve its customers while lagging behind the rest of the developed world all in the name of profit. Yay for corporate America. | |
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|  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | Re: Great Wrong topic?? | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by sonicmerlin:"Both WiMax and LTE will offer about the same DSL-ish speed (5-6 Mbps), but bitrates could grow to 15 Mbps by 2012." Shared among 10-100 users on a tower, say hello to cable modem congestion circa 2004. | |
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| | At the stroke of midnight I lost NBC and ABC. I thought I would watch the analog transmission to see if they might do some sort of good by transmission before the cut the power. At midnight the local ABC station just went dark. I tired the digital station and it was not there either. I rescanned and now I can't get the NBC or ABC local station like I could before midnight. It's no real big deal since I have some HD boxes from Direct. I just liked to watch the local feed of some network programs because the OTA picture looks much better than the compressed signal coming from Direct. | |
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See 17 replies to this post |
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 richdelbGo Hawks GoPremium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL | Rescan I have cable, so, for the most part, this didn't matter to me at all. I do still have a house antenna hooked up (as a backup that I have never needed) and a digital tv. I "rescanned" for OTA channels and, as it turns out, I got my local ABC affiliate (WLS-DT 7.1) to "tune in" for the very first time. (I live pretty far from the city). That channel was the only one of the "major network" channels that I was unable to get OTA before the "official" cutover, so there is actually some improvement.
Like I said, I have cable, so this is just a backup, but its nice to see that I can get all Chicago channels. | |
|
n2ubp
join:2007-07-13
Middletown, NY |  Sad things about the digital transition...
FEMA expects volunteer fire departments to fix little old ladies digital TV reception problems.
The digital transition did nothing to improve the quality of the programming, just the picture quality.
Too many subchannels are being filled with tripe, infomercials, tele preachers looking for money in five different languages.
It is still a waste of bandwidth. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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 djdanskaRudie32Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
kudos:4
·Clear Wireless
·Time Warner Cable
·T-Mobile US
| UHF Ch. 26 Chicago Sign off For those who are interested, channel 26 chicago did a sign off show. This is the last part. Posted in the Chicago forum, and possibly in avsforum too. I am fairly sure that channel 26, wciu is the last major independent station for chicago.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SbizfeDRYQ
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The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan | |
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| | This will hurt OTA viewership In all but urban areas, this is going to hurt OTA viewership. Many people have gotten by with watching less-then-perfect OTA reception, but, with digital, if your signal quality degrades too far, you get nothing.
I have satellite, so I get my locals, but I decided to set up an amplified indoor antenna to see what my TV's ATSC tuner could get. All I got was one station, located about 10 miles away. The major stations around here all transmit from Red Mountain in Birmingham, about 55-60 miles away, with the exception of the ABC affiliate, which has a tower here in Tuscaloosa, but at a greatly-reduced power for now, to the point that I can't even get them here. Anyway, the point is that none of the stations transmitting from Birmingham are visible at all on an indoor antenna. In the past, you could get at least snowy signals from many of them.
So, I'm wondering how many stations are going to have to significantly increase power to get anywhere close to their analog service areas. And will they even care enough to do it? | |
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| | Digital before the transition and after Moving the digital channels from one freq. to another and changing the broadcasting power created more confusion than the actual analog channels shutdown. There was more emphasis on the converters than the antennas and with all this tax-payer's money spent on advertisement very little was spent on educating the public.
Also the nasty little secret of the transition is that the effective range of the digital broadcasts was designed to be lower than that of the analog. The stations themselves relied too much on the gov't and as a result they will lose viewership -- I find that really shortsighted. | |
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| | people throw out tvs i found an ancient analog tv on the curbside last night that still works. it has dials to change channels, no remote. rabbit ears were permanently attached. i took it home and saved it from the trash. all it needs is a converter box and it gets crystal clear digital reception.
instead of throwing out your analog tv and buying a new digital tv, get a converter or donate the tv to charity and write it off on your taxes. even if it is from 1980. | |
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|  MadnessLike a flea circus at a dog show
join:2000-01-05
Quincy, MA
kudos:1
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: people throw out tvs Hey, there's a REALLY old RCA B&W console in my basement. Big wooden cabinet, vacuum tubes, etc. Amazingly, it still works! Just had to try the converter box on that baby!
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No keyboard present or keyboard error. Press <F1> to continue.... | |
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| | | We tried giving an old early 1980s to mid 1980's TV (Toshiba) to "charity". They pretty much rejected it. They wouldn't even take it in good condition... So very sadly we threw it out this past weekend. They took a fax machine though, even though they had about five of them sitting around.
It was kind of sad, but we had no use for the old TV. We have other TVs that we use now (that have remotes). | |
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| | "the transition went remarkably smoothly" Folks here in broadbandland are just as exercised now as they were before the transition. Maybe things didn't go all that smoothly. | |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | TV: Opiate of the masses.... All this fuss over that little box in your living room that really just serves to make you dumber anyway.
I like TV as much as the next guy, but if it was gone tomorrow I would probably shrug and go read a book or something.
Sometimes it amazes me the power this particular medium has over people...
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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|  major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
3 edits | Re: TV: Opiate of the masses.... said by N3OGH:Sometimes it amazes me the power this particular medium has over people... Given the over-inundation of the announcement of the arrival of DTV transition in the first place, I'd say it is closer to the truth to state that it should astonish the thinking public the meticulous attention to detail that the federal government had in this event. In fact, I don't think I have ever in my entire lifetime (save for war mongering) seen the federal government devote so much time, money and careful attention to detail as much as was devoted to the DTV transition. Anyone who argues the feds fuck up everything should take this particular event as a case in point to the contrary of that conventional thinking.
Fine, make the announcement, but this was overkill in a big fuckin' way. The feds ought to be advertising the shit out of the # of bankruptcies, true (not seasonally adjusted) UI stats and the number of us who have jobs but can't afford health insurance. Instead it focused inordinate amounts of time, money and attention on the idiot box. Speaks volumes as to where the priorities of this country lie, eh?
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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| | WhatNowPremium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC | Re: TV: Opiate of the masses.... I don't know how hard it would have been to cut back and forth from analog to digital and back. If they had gone digital for short periods say one minute then two then five and so on starting a year ago this would have been a none event. Some people are not going to do anything until they have too. | |
|
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Out went the lights, er, screen With the transition of frequencies, 50% of the english stations disappeared from my converter box (rescanning did nothing).
Naturally, ALL of the foreign channels come in fine, including the two with *8* multicast channels each.
So it would appear that the DTV conversion, for us, will involve a new antenna, on the roof, on a 14' mast. Not cheap.
Oh well, we didn't miss cable much when we disconnected years ago. I guess we won't miss Katie Couric either. | |
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| | Should have just ended local broadcasting I kind of wonder what the point was. I think the country would have been better off by simply ending analog transmission and not have transitioned to anything. There's satellite and cable tv for distribution. Why do we need broadcast TV?
Broadcast TV serves primarily urban areas and these are the areas almost always covered by Cable. The whole concept of local broadcasts seems obsolete with the prevalence of satellite and cable. | |
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| tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Re: Should have just ended local broadcasting We live in a rural area. Would much rather spend a few hundred dollars every 20 years or so for an outdoor antenna then $50-100 per month for Cable or Sat. We are about 45 miles away from Boston stations, less to NH ones, hardly an urban environment.
There is the argument OTA image quality is better then Cable and lesser degree Satellite. The reason is additional transcoding used by Cable and Sat providers to squeeze more programs in a given amount bandwidth.
We straddle NH and Boston market. There has been pushback by cable providers to carry HD content provided by PBS and ABC stations in NH and MA because it is not different enough.
Elimination of broadcast will prevent TV reception from anyone not at a fixed location. I helped out with our local PBS station during transition and pre-transition readiness test. Several callers were upset there were no DC converter boxes available. In order to watch TV from a camper they needed to purchase a new TV. I don't know how large a population this is but it is not insignificant.
The FCC has proposed allowing unused TV channels, so called whitespace, to be used for low power data services. There is some concern about potential interference but if sucessful goes a low way in maximizing bandwidth utilization.
/tom
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jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | What with the duplicate show Let see - I turn to 4.1 and see the same stuff as on 4.2
why does broadcaster show the same stuff on different channel? What a waste of channel | |
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| | | Re: What with the duplicate show In most cases, 4.2 would be sd content and 4.1 would be the hd feed. However as not all shows are in high def, 4.2 probably looks exactly the same a lot.
This isn't even necessary as all atsc tuners can fit an hd picture on an sd screen. What a waste of bandwidth! | |
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| tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| said by jdir:why does broadcaster show the same stuff on different channel? What a waste of channel Broadcaster's want to control program quality. This allows them to create optimized HD and SD feeds.
Since digital transmission enables both to fit into a 6 Mhz RF channel is does not waste anything.
/tom | |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | yay! the cellphone companies succeeded in killing my 5" portable tv which doesn't have the inputs a box can hook up to!!!!!!!!!!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Re: yay! I assume that was a rhetorical comment and are not really interested in making it work. But if you are take the coax RF from the converter box strip off the shield and wrap the inner conductor around the whip antenna. That should provide enough signal.
BTW Channels 52-69 are being used for more then just cell phones.
/tom | |
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Digital Slight of Hand.
So much for hurricane preparedness. Before the transition I was able to receive all Analog Network Stations on my 13 Inch Panasonic and battery powered TV, with rabbit ears. After the transition I found that I was in Pixel City. The only Network DTV Station that was stable was WESH (NBC) Phony Channel Designation 2 actually transmitting on VHF Channel 11. The stations broadcasting on UHF Carriers were extremely unstable.